40 Reasons NOT to have kids...

[Jas12]

French writer Corinne Maier has been stirring up a bunch of controversy over her newest book 40 Reasons for Not Having Children.
I haven''t read it, but have read articles and interviews with her. Really interesting stuff. Apparently she wrote the book after a bad art-gallery outing with her 2 teen children.

2 good articles here and here (<--this one is the interview with her explaining her motivation for the book)

Gotta say, as a new mom, she makes some good, if not obvious points. I agree that westerners need a good reality check when it comes to parenting. Someone needs to de-romanticize it a bit. Celebrity culture has turned babies into hot accessories with little regard/mention of actual nitty gritty parenting.

Can''t say i agree entirely with her sentiments (ask me in 20 years) b/c i think most moms feel that love trumps all the sucky stuff, and she''s pretty darn harsh and definitive, but iam wondering what you all think...

.............
40 reasons not to spawn

These are the arguments author Corinne Maier uses in her book to persuade readers to just say no to having children. Each reason gets a chapter.

The desire for children: A false aspiration.

Childbirth is torture.

Don''t become a travelling feeding bottle.

Continue to amuse yourself.

Subway-job-kids: No thank you

Hold onto your friends.

Do not adopt the idiot language we use to address children.

To open the nursery is to close the bedroom.

Child, the killer of desire.

They are the death knell of the couple.

To be or to make: You shouldn''t have to choose.

The child is a kind of vicious dwarf, of an innate cruelty.

It is conformist.

Children are too expensive.

You become an ally of capitalism.

They will destroy your time and your freedom.

The worst drudgery for the parents.

Do not be deceived by the notion of the ideal child.

You will inevitably be disappointed by your child.

To become a merdeuf (soccer mom) - what horror

Parenting above all else - no thanks.

Block your professional path with children.

Families: They are horror and cruelty.

Don''t fall into an overgrown childhood.

To persist in saying "me first" is a badge of courage.

A child will kill the fond memories of your childhood.

You will not be able to prevent yourself from wanting your child to be happy.

Child care is a set of impossible dilemmas.

School: a prison camp with which you''ll have to make a pact.

To raise a child, but toward what kind of future?

Flee from the benevolent blandness.

Parenting will make you soft.

Motherhood is a trap for women.

To be a mother, or to succeed: You must choose.

When the child appears, the father disappears.

The child of today must be a perfect child: a brave new world.

Your child will be in constant danger from pedophiles and pornographers.

Why contribute to a future of unemployment and social exclusion?

There are too many children in the world.

Turn your back on the ridiculous rules of the "good"

parent.

 

[Alienor]

I read this forum a lot but rarely participate. However, I would like to bring my two cents to this topic if I may.

I am a childless French woman, born and raised. And I understand where the writer is getting at. French culture instills from a very young age, that having a family is the life goal. You just see it everywhere and government condones it through the generous social system (paid leave, social worker to help you clean and do house shores post-birth while you recover...). It is very common for women to give up their careers, if not expected!

I have never wanted to have children since well, forever... I respect people for wanting to have children but this is not for me.

Motherhood is glamorized everywhere, like your life cannot be complete without a kid. I think people needs to do some soul searching and make their own choice before jumping on the bandwagon.

Kids are cute but not for everyone! I wish society would be more receptive to DINK.

On a side note, I will be buying the book. I know exactly where she is coming from.

 

[Circe]

Seems to me that the premise is a bit flawed - it''s not like having children is some kind of a new-fangled fad.

I *do* think that there''s a lot of pressure on people, particularly women, to conform and live a "traditional" life, but ... not for the reasons she''s listing (i.e., it being "cool"). If I had to list a reason why *I* want kids, I suppose it would be because I love my parents very much, and I look forward to having that sort of a relationship with my own little tiny humans. If it doesn''t live up to my expectations ... that''s worth the gamble, and I''ll hopefully still find the most fulfilling aspects, and make their experience a good one. Do I hate that it will in all likelihood damage my career? Yep, but I''d rather rail against the system and try to change it than blame the future sprogs, who are victims of the same system.

In the articles you list, Jas, the author sounds like a very unhappy, very lonely woman, who doesn''t seem to concerned with the possibility of her teen kids reading her work. If anything, she almost sounds like she hopes it will hurt them back for the neglect and lack of appreciation that she feels. That seems a little ... misguided ... coming from the mature one in the parent-child relationship. I hope it makes people think about their choices, but I can''t say that I agree with much of what she says ....

 

[luckystar112]

She sounds like a very miserable woman. I pity her children, I really do.

She has some acceptable points (can''t bring myself to write "good"), but she mostly just sounds bitter and depressed.

 

[TravelingGal]

hahaha...

I didn''t read the articles yet but skimmed down the chapter headings. All possibly true!

And STILL, my girl is worth it, at 15 months, 27 days. Hee!

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I also agree that she makes some good points! My husband and I were saying last night that we definitely remember the good ole child-free days, as some people say they can''t remember life without their children. Granted, we''ve only been parents for about 4 months, but still...those are memories I''m holding onto!

A few quibbles- we adopted, so her points about childbirth, being a feedbag, and too many children already in the world just don''t apply to us (thank goodness

)

 

[Jas12]

Alienor--it''s interesting that the French government has taken that approach and read about it often. To some extent canada has been pushing families, but i think more due to our small population and inability to maintain it without immigration. I get a ''breed, breed'' vibe from government more than a "be a good women and become a SAHM mom" vibe. I think it is great that you have decided being a mom is not for you. I now know both the joy and sacrifice of being a mom and would not think less of someone who didn''t want to go that route. I certainly have ''what did i get myself into'' days and i joked with my sister, who does not have children, that it may be 20 years before i go on a long, totally carefree holiday again. Luckily i don''t mind waiting....
Do you think the author took such a direct, firm position b/c that is the only way to really bring attention to the issue. Writing some diplomatic, middle of the road article probably wouldn''t have cut it.


Circe--i wonder about the kids too. IF they were older, like late teens, twenties i could see her having a dialogue about it. Intelligent kids could handle that, and she is a prominent public figure so i am sure they are used to attention surrounding their mom. Like i mentioned to alienor, i think she is probably harsh and bitter sounding on purpose. A softer approach wouldn''t penetrate the cultural influences in France. She''s out to tackle a stereotype, an unrealistic expectation etc. and hopefully her kids come to understand that, and hopefully she is certain her kids still know they are loved.... I am not defending her, but i can see her motivation.

 

[Courtneylub]

Hmm. Maybe the author''s parents should have felt that way and prevented the miserable woman from being born.

 

[TravelingGal]

OK, I did read the articles. Boy, she does sound like a miserable human being - not sure if that how she is or if that''s her selling schtick.

And I laughed when she said she gave her kids copies of the book but all they want to do is read Harry Potter. Duh. I am not sure if this woman gets motherhood!

 

[tigian]

She sounds like a meanie and wants others to join in her disdain towards everybody. Just because someone chooses one thing doesn't mean the other choice is wrong.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Poor kids. She claims she had kids so she wouldn''t feel lonely, then went on to regret it? So her kids have to suffer because she made a crappy decision based on her insecurity? I find the contrast between her anger and the other woman''s warmth to be almost funny.

 

[decodelighted]

Reminds me of this post about an article I saw yesterday maybe.

You''ll love this!

The other day, a group of mums was stood in my garden - don''t ask me why - and one reached up to scratch her head, probably at me and my hedonistic lifestyle, and I caught sight of her stomach with its texture and hue of cold, congealed porridge and I couldn''t help but stare, aghast.
My point here is that these mums think that to care about how they look is beneath them when they have more important things to worry about - such as organic lunch boxes and whether or not I have diluted the fresh orange juice...Which brings me smartly to the reason most women have children. They want to hang on to their husbands. While this tactic might once have worked, now that men are the giant toddlers in need of babying, to have a child for that reason will never, ever work.

 

[Circe]

Oh, Liz Jones. With her, at least I get the feeling that it''s *self* hatred that''s the big issue, doled out indiscriminately to anybody unfortunate enough to embody some quality that Jones hates about herself ....

 

[Black Jade]

My sensation reading this list (besides wondering who translated it. Google translator?)is that the woman is joking. She is writing a spoof, like Swift''s A Modest Proposal--and laughing her head off all the way to the bank at the idiots taking her seriously.

I mean, half the things on the list make no sense. Flee from benevolent blandness???!!!

I''ve had bad days at the art gallery with my kids too, when they were teenagers when I could have come home and let off steam writing about how awful they were. In fact, I''m sure I DID do this a few times, but I didn''t publish my momentary sentiments. I knew they''d come back to haunt me, if I did, even in the middle of my (temporary) bad temper.

It is interesting to hear that the French government so strongly promotes motherhood. Of course, they''ve had la depopulation before--it was one reason for the defeat in 1940. I wonder if promoting motherhood is the reason that they alone among the Western European nations are almost at replacement birth rate? The Germans, from what I''ve heard, are actually deserting whole towns because there isn''t enough population? A lot of other European nations are only sustaining their current population through immigration, which I wouldn''t complain about because I''m an immigrant, but it does create problems of its own and doesn''t really fix the aging population issue.

Not that any of that is a reason to have kids in our superindividualistic age. It can''t just be good for society as a whole, so far as we''re concerned, it has to be good for the individual.

Just some quick thoughts--

Motherhood is really a literal miracle--if we weren''t used to the idea of it, we''d never believe it. You actually get to carry another human being around INSIDE of you. You can feel it growing and kicking and getting larger. I always feel sorry for men, that they never get to experience what that''s like--it''s a privilege. And I speak as someone who has stretch marks and who was nauseated the whole nine months and whose feet grew two sizes bigger and never went back. It wsa WORTH it.

Nursing is another miracle. Your body starts automatically making the exact food that the baby needs and keeps doing it as long as the baby needs it. This is astonishing to think about. Also (people who have had the privilege of nursing will know what I''m talking about), there is no feeling like nursing. It is comparable only to the absolute best marital sex in terms of feeling utterly and completely close to another human being--as if your skin was not an insurmountable barrier between you. The ''aloneness'' that one normally feels in the universe is gone while one nurses. There would be no such thing as ''existentialists'' (like Jean-Paul Sartre) if that kind of philosopher had ever had the experience of nursing a child.

It gets harder to spend time with your husband, yes, but if you make any kind of effort to do this, the children can be the most ineradicable bond. Once you have had a child with someone, you can''t ever really be divided utterly from them (as a million zillion second wives have found out the hard way). And in the best cases, your shared memories of the good times, the bad times and the just simply confusing times will knit you together like nothing else on earth (shared hobbies and remembered vacations and so forth, although nice, are not really comparable).

Your kids stop being cute little babies and develop minds of their own, true, and they can be very embarrassing--and worse. But isn''t it amazing that they become real human beings, not your puppets or clones? As you get older, your children help you to understand your parents better. They frustrate you, annoy you--and force you to mature. When you have kids, you HAVE to become the ''older generation'' at some point. This is a GOOD thing. I saw Gloria Steinem being interviewed a little while ago for some significant birthday. The poor woman has seen no change or growth since about 1975. It was depressing to watch her. An old-lady teenager. A SPOILED one, if you know what I mean? I''m sorry to offend any die-hard Gloria Steinem fans on this board, but that was what I honestly thought.

I should clarify--there are people who never have children who become mature, of course. And some people manage to have kids and remain amazingly selfish and young (in the bad sense of young). But I think that everyone gets my point here, even if I''m not able to put it completely tactfully, and be truthful at the same time, and if you''re under 25 and you don''t get it, chances are very good, if you have children and rear them, that someday you will. Having children is just inherently sacrificial. All those nights when you don''t get to sleep, and all the toys you can''t afford for yourself because you''re now putting kids first, and all the worry when they''re sick and the feeling, when they''re really in pain, physically or mentally that you wish you could take their pain on instead of having to helplessly watch it--that does something to you. It does GOOD things to you.

Being the mother of a child is the closest thing to touching eternity while on this earth. You become part of a long chain, stretching back as far as Eve (take that as a metaphor if you want to) and stretching forward to--who knows? A lot of my friends are now becoming grandmothers and I ache for this experience (while knowing I must wait until its proper time), which I know must make you feel this even more.

All quite worth having been spit up on a few times, and having had to change a LOT of dirty diapers (and I was actually an environment nut who did cloth diapers and WASHED them) and worth having gone through, we can''t get a babysitter tonight, we have to stay home more times than I really care to remember. When I was in the middle of it, I had a lot of times when I thought, oh my, what is happening to my brain and will I ever have an important, impressive career that my expensive, pioneering education was supposed to prepare me for (it WAS the 1980''s after all) but now looking back, I think much more about what I could have done to be MORE with my kids, because that was so fleeting while the career things can be worked on just fine now that two are grown men and the ''baby'' is entering HS in the fall.

 

[trillionaire]

I hope that this woman was just trying to be sensational to make money. I don''t want kids, but I would never write such things when I had children, especially fragile teens!!! They are so vulnerable and need a lot of love and validation (while they push you away, lol!) I would never buy or read such a book. I hate when people act like their lives just ''happen'' to them.

Good reason to not have kids: YOU don''t want children!

Bad reason to not have kids: because miserable mothers scare you out of it with anecdotal evidence of their personal misery.

good reason to have kids: YOU want children!

bad reason to have kids: because exuberant mothers convince you that it''s wonderful with anecdotal evidence of their personal joy and fulfillment.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/29/2009 2:19:42 AM
Author: trillionaire
I hope that this woman was just trying to be sensational to make money. I don''t want kids, but I would never write such things when I had children, especially fragile teens!!! They are so vulnerable and need a lot of love and validation (while they push you away, lol!) I would never buy or read such a book. I hate when people act like their lives just ''happen'' to them.

Good reason to not have kids: YOU don''t want children!

Bad reason to not have kids: because miserable mothers scare you out of it with anecdotal evidence of their personal misery.

good reason to have kids: YOU want children!

bad reason to have kids: because exuberant mothers convince you that it''s wonderful with anecdotal evidence of their personal joy and fulfillment.

That''s what I figured she was doing. Kind of the spoof that Black Jade said. At least I hope so - I would hate to think that a mother would hate it THAT much. But I''m guess some do?

 

[Dannielle]

Date: 7/29/2009 2:19:42 AM
Author: trillionaire
I hope that this woman was just trying to be sensational to make money. I don''t want kids, but I would never write such things when I had children, especially fragile teens!!! They are so vulnerable and need a lot of love and validation (while they push you away, lol!) I would never buy or read such a book. I hate when people act like their lives just ''happen'' to them.

Good reason to not have kids: YOU don''t want children!

Bad reason to not have kids: because miserable mothers scare you out of it with anecdotal evidence of their personal misery.

good reason to have kids: YOU want children!

bad reason to have kids: because exuberant mothers convince you that it''s wonderful with anecdotal evidence of their personal joy and fulfillment.

Well said

 

[Jas12]

trillionaire--i think that is spot on.

Blackjade--i only have a young son, but i think as time goes on i''ll agree more and more with you. It is the intangible stuff or motherhood, the connection, the love, looks, moments, that makes less you-time, money, sex, independence etc. seem just less and less important as time goes on.

 

[steph72276]

Wow, she sounds like a truly miserable human being and I feel sorry for both her and her children. What a legacy to leave them! Hope they forget about this article when she is on her deathbed and they are remembering her as a mother. I know plenty of successful, well rounded mothers that have plenty of romance in their lives after babies. Yes, we all have our hard days, but at least for me, all the hard times are forgotten when that little one climbs in your lap and gives you and hug and kiss and tells you they love you. And I don''t think it has to end when the child grows up....my mother is one of my very best friends. I wish this woman would have thought those things BEFORE she made the decision to have children....some people are truly not cut out to be parents.