4 - 5 Carat Engagement Ring

[jonnydanger]

Hello everyone at Pricescope,

My girlfriend of fourteen months is the most special thing in my life, and i''m planning on proposing to her in the next 3 to 4 months. I have a budget of about $80,000 to $110,000 to spend on an engagement ring.

I need some advice PS! For an engagement ring of this size and to stay within my budget, what sort of factors are the most important for people to go nuts every time my soon to be fiance moves her hand.

Is the most important thing clarity? cut? color? I''ve made up my mind that I want the diamond to be GIA cert. What about setting? My girlfriends fingers are fairly long / big, so I think the rock will not look big on her hand at all. I''ve I''ve spent a lot of time on bluenile and whiteflash. Who would be the best online retailer to make this purchase?

Thanks in advance for the help, and I must say this is the best site I''ve come across on the internet for diamond research / help.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/10/2010 6:58:54 AM
Author:jonnydanger
Hello everyone at Pricescope,

My girlfriend of fourteen months is the most special thing in my life, and i'm planning on proposing to her in the next 3 to 4 months. I have a budget of about $80,000 to $110,000 to spend on an engagement ring.

I need some advice PS! For an engagement ring of this size and to stay within my budget, what sort of factors are the most important for people to go nuts every time my soon to be fiance moves her hand.

Is the most important thing clarity? cut? color? I've made up my mind that I want the diamond to be GIA cert. What about setting? My girlfriends fingers are fairly long / big, so I think the rock will not look big on her hand at all. I've I've spent a lot of time on bluenile and whiteflash. Who would be the best online retailer to make this purchase?

Thanks in advance for the help, and I must say this is the best site I've come across on the internet for diamond research / help.

Hi Jonny and welcome!

Thank you for the very kind words, we work hard to be an excellent resource for the diamond buyer!

As to the diamond, I assume you want a round stone? Bear in mind that a round of that size is going to be pretty huge - which is fine - but once you start getting much over 3 carats, a round stone can really begin to stand out in a major way.....

But lets assume you are looking for a round. A very important factor is the cut quality, without a great cut you will not have a beautiful stone, so it is very important to concentrate on that, the cut needn't be perfection ( especially as top cuts will be less common in these weights) but a well cut stone with proven proportions will bring the stone to life.

Colour and clarity, the larger you go the chances increase you might see some visible inclusions, so you can consider SI grades certainly but make absolutely sure these are eyeclean, a trusted vendor that can inspect the stone is the best way to approach this. Colour, depends on budget, I would say GIA or AGS graded H colour or higher would be a good range to start looking.

Vendors, I would suggest working with vendors that have in house diamonds that can supply all the info you need such as images like Idealscope, or that can call a potential diamond in for you for evaluation. Vendors with sterling reputations are listed below.

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.goodoldgold.com

www.briangavindiamonds.com

www.jamesallen.com

www.idjewelryonline.com

www.whiteflash.com


Settings - for such a big stone, again assuming its a round, I would go for a simple solitaire personally, keep it simple and let the stone be the star of the show, do you have any idea of your GF's preference?

 

[Lorelei]

I had a look around for you and found this one, it is 3 carats so not sure if it is large enough?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2205261.htm

Ask Brian Gavin about this one,

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=26440266

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=19907415 and this one if you would consider J colour. Both of the above might need to be called in.

Here is a huge stone, 5.64 carats, ask JA if they can get an Idealscope image for it!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1223320.asp

 

[jonnydanger]

Wow, response almost instantly! Thanks for your advice. My girlfriend tried on a 3 carat the other day and said that she really prefers something larger than 4 carat. I''m in the market for a round diamond and I also feel for diamond of 4-5 carat that looks absolutely stunning, a solitaire setting sounds good. Within my budget, for a rock this size, is it possible to get something that would look absolutely stunning in this size range?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:04:04 AM
Author: jonnydanger
Wow, response almost instantly! Thanks for your advice. My girlfriend tried on a 3 carat the other day and said that she really prefers something larger than 4 carat. I''m in the market for a round diamond and I also feel for diamond of 4-5 carat that looks absolutely stunning, a solitaire setting sounds good. Within my budget, for a rock this size, is it possible to get something that would look absolutely stunning in this size range?

You are welcome!

I am sure we can find you something wonderful for the budget, I have been editing and adding some selections for you in my post above and am still hunting for you, take a look to see what you think!

 

[Lorelei]

This one might be perfect, I don''t know how flexible your budget is but it has incredible potential....

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

 

[jonnydanger]

WOW, the JA one is a mind blower. Am I making a big sacrifice on appearance of the diamond by going with the I color VS2 on this? These links that you''re pasting me, do you suggest I buy such a stone from these vendors or that I purchase it from blue nile or white flash? Only two online vendors i''m familiar with is blue nile and white flash i''ve checked out because of this site.. For some reason (probably due to my lack of diamond knowledge) I feel scared to buy from a company which I have no knowledge about. Blue Nile I know has a really good reputation.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:13:51 AM
Author: jonnydanger
WOW, the JA one is a mind blower. Am I making a big sacrifice on appearance of the diamond by going with the I color VS2 on this? These links that you're pasting me, do you suggest I buy such a stone from these vendors or that I purchase it from blue nile or white flash? Only two online vendors i'm familiar with is blue nile and white flash i've checked out because of this site.. For some reason (probably due to my lack of diamond knowledge) I feel scared to buy from a company which I have no knowledge about. Blue Nile I know has a really good reputation.

It could be a great stone, ask JA for an Idealscope image if you are interested in this one, this image will help to evaluate the stone, also definitely check this one out I posted above, its the pick of the bunch in my opinion if the price is ok,

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

No, going to I colour and VS is not a sacrifice in my opinion, with VS clarity if it is totally eyeclean ( check with JA as its such a huge diamond), you won't notice any difference between this grade and IF if it is eyeclean. An I colour should still be white but check with JA again as it is such a huge stone how the colour grade presents itself.

I understand being nervous about buying from the companies above if you have no knowledge of them, thats completely understandable. If this gives you any reassurance, I have been here for 5 years and have watched all the vendors above complete thousands of sales and in the very rare instances that things went wrong, they have fully stepped up and gone out of their way to make things right. So you could work with any one of them and be confident you are in great hands. BN are also an excellent vendor but the thing is they will not provide images to help the consumer make an informed decision, so its up to you and your comfort level whom you work with.

 

[Andelain]

BlueNile doesn''t give you pictures, Ideal Scope images, etc of the diamonds. James Allen, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds all do. I would recommend any of the ones that can give you the pictures of the stone, IMHO.

 

[jonnydanger]

I really like http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp as well. Just wondering how much bigger a 4 carat will feel on her hand than a 3 carat, and if I need to get her a maybe 4.5 carat or 5.0. Is this the best deal I can get on a diamond like this? Is there any sort of PS discount or wire discount with these guys? Are online retailers prices negotiable?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:30:25 AM
Author: jonnydanger
I really like http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp as well. Just wondering how much bigger a 4 carat will feel on her hand than a 3 carat, and if I need to get her a maybe 4.5 carat or 5.0. Is this the best deal I can get on a diamond like this? Is there any sort of PS discount or wire discount with these guys? Are online retailers prices negotiable?

A 3 carat round will have the face up size of around 9.3mm, 4 carats over 10mm so its a decent size increase even bearing in mind that once you get into these large sizes, visual size increases become less noticeable. Also cut quality is so important in order to give a diamond the wow factor you seek, for example if you bought a 5 carat stone which wasn't as well cut, it is possible it wouldn't look much larger than a well cut 4 carat if the stone wasn't returning light well to the eye. Also it is possible that such a stone could be physically deep like a peg, so that the size you want to see would be concentrated in the bottom of the stone where you won't see it, so bear in mind carat weight doesn't always relate to face up size. Below in the next post is a photo which demonstrates this.

As to discounts, here is the JA policy copied from " click for Pricescope benefits" on the diamond pages,

As a Pricescope Visitor, do I receive a better price?
Yes. Pricescope visitors are entitled to receive an extra discount on every loose diamond listed on the jamesallen.com website. These discounted prices are listed on the Pricescope search engine, and are automatically displayed on the jamesallen.com diamond detail pages.

In order to receive the better price do I have to pay by bank wire?
No. We discount every diamond for Pricescope visitors, regardless of payment method. If you are able to pay by bank wire you will receive the Pricescope discount, plus an additional 1.5% off the entire order.

As for negotiating, online vendors are working on pretty slim profit margins as it is, but there is no harm in asking.

 

[Lorelei]

Both gems are the same diameter and could be cut from the rough diamond. The well cut diamond on the left weighs 0.84ct and the dull drab stone weighs 1.00ct. Because it is a carat it will sell for more.

From this link from the tutorial section, https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-carat-weight/

Because a diamond might be heavier doesn't guarantee it will look bigger. But in the case of the I and the H above, both are well cut and the I would look larger than the H, what you could do is ask for one of the gemologists to obtain both diamonds if possible to evaluate them for you?

Also one more from Blue Nile,

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-4-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD01611016

 

[somethingshiny]

Wow, Lorelei! It's been a while since I've perused the huge stones. That 4.02 JA is magnificent! Great find!

Johnny~ Also wanted to add, when making a purchase (especially of this size), it is appropriate to have the stone shipped to an independent appraiser within your 30 day inspection period. You can have the stone evaluated and feel confident in your online purchase prior to setting.

As far as these sites being unheard of to you, I completely understand. However, if you do any Pricescope searches for any of the vendors listed, you'll get hundreds of posts and pictures. You can check out some of the links before purchasing to make sure you're comfortable with their business.

Big ditto on a solitaire setting!!


Good luck and welcome to PS!



with some pics of larger stones and settings to give you some extra ideas.HERE'S a thread

another thread with stones a bit smaller than what you're looking for but tons of beautiful settings, and ideas for wedding bands.

 

[Lorelei]

Jonny

I was thinking about your setting, and one option I wanted to show you was this one belonging to KristyDarling created by Leon Mege at www.artofplatinum.com , it is a beautiful setting with pear sidestones, Kristy's diamond is 3.5 carats, the design might need some modification possibly depending on the size of the diamond you choose but it might be an option.

Also check out this website, Mark Morrell is one of my favourite jewellery artisans,

http://www.mwmjewelry.com/

It seems Mark has had flooding issues recently which have made his work difficult but if you like his creations then you could contact him to get a timeframe if you wanted to work with him.

 

[jgny]

This is a good reference chart on sizes of diamonds, going up to 5 cts.

http://www.reisnichols.com/diamond-size-chart.pdf

 

[jonnydanger]

Thanks for all your help Lorelei,

I am really confused right now as I like 3 diamonds of the ones you''ve mentioned.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-4-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD01611016 (definitely in love with the price [not too sure if the stone is going to shine or not]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1223320.asp (LOVE the size, price for the size is really good too, am sure people will gawk at the size, but am really unsure about the quality of the diamond here)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp (this diamond is beautiful, one of my favorites)

The main issue for me here is which one do I go with? The Blue nile diamond is a 4 carat and 35% cheaper than the JA VS1 4ct. Im definitely in love with the 5.64ct JA but I''m really worried it won''t look good..

Do you have any appraisers in mind that I could work with?

 

[Andelain]

Jonnydanger I''m far from the expert here, but I looked at some of the stones listed in here and my uneducated eyeballs fell in love with this one.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/11/2010 5:11:14 AM
Author: Lone_Wolfe
Jonnydanger I''m far from the expert here, but I looked at some of the stones listed in here and my uneducated eyeballs fell in love with this one.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

LOL! Then to me that means you don''t have uneducated eyeballs at all but can appreciate a beautifully cut diamond when you see it!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/11/2010 4:32:38 AM
Author: jonnydanger
Thanks for all your help Lorelei,

I am really confused right now as I like 3 diamonds of the ones you've mentioned.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-4-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs2-clarity_LD01611016 (definitely in love with the price [not too sure if the stone is going to shine or not]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1223320.asp (LOVE the size, price for the size is really good too, am sure people will gawk at the size, but am really unsure about the quality of the diamond here)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp (this diamond is beautiful, one of my favorites)

The main issue for me here is which one do I go with? The Blue nile diamond is a 4 carat and 35% cheaper than the JA VS1 4ct. Im definitely in love with the 5.64ct JA but I'm really worried it won't look good..

Do you have any appraisers in mind that I could work with?

You are most welcome Jonny, its my pleasure!!


Here is the way I see it. The BN stone is something of an unknown quantity, it has a good basic ' recipe' with the proportions but without images there is no way to judge the overall cut....However they do have a good return policy and you could definitely have it sent to an independant appraiser which is what I would recommend anyway especially with a purchase of this magnitude. Also with BN they don't have the stones in house to be able to evaluate them for you, as this is an I colour and such a large diamond it would be best to have someone look at the diamond for you to see how the I colour shows itself but with BN the only thing you can do is have it sent to an appraiser or view it yourself initially.

The I VS is a great stone and the I colour grade could be fine, what I would suggest is asking JA to obtain the stone and get one of their gemologists to evaluate then discuss it with you, chances are the I colour will be white as above but in such an enormous stone it would be best to get it physically inspected by a gemologist in case it is showing much warmth.

The third H VS has a beautiful cut and to me is the pick of the bunch, but thats not to say that the other two above wouldn't be suitable. Here is what I would do. Ask for Idealscope images for both JA diamonds, then we can get more info on each diamond that way and go from there.

Depending what area you are in, here is a list of independant appraisers you can use to find one in your area. Also a detailed written appraisal will be very useful for insurance purposes, especially as the cut and beauty of the stone matters to you ( as it should do) if the worst happened ( unlikely) that you needed to make a claim, a thorough appraisal noting the details of the cut etc will make it easier to find a well cut replacement rather than just having any other 4 or 5 carat stone as a replacement.

Here is the appraiser tool you can use to find an appraiser in your area.

 

[Andelain]

Date: 4/11/2010 5:52:58 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/11/2010 5:11:14 AM
Author: Lone_Wolfe
Jonnydanger I'm far from the expert here, but I looked at some of the stones listed in here and my uneducated eyeballs fell in love with this one.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

LOL! Then to me that means you don't have uneducated eyeballs at all but can appreciate a beautifully cut diamond when you see it!!!

Well thank you, Lorelei. Coming from someone who knows diamonds like you do that makes me feel good. I've learned a lot from you and the others here who freely share your expertise with us all.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/11/2010 9:03:25 AM
Author: Lone_Wolfe

Date: 4/11/2010 5:52:58 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 4/11/2010 5:11:14 AM
Author: Lone_Wolfe
Jonnydanger I''m far from the expert here, but I looked at some of the stones listed in here and my uneducated eyeballs fell in love with this one.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

LOL! Then to me that means you don''t have uneducated eyeballs at all but can appreciate a beautifully cut diamond when you see it!!!

Well thank you, Lorelei. Coming from someone who knows diamonds like you do that makes me feel good. I''ve learned a lot from you and the others here freely share your expertise with us all.

* blush...* thank you!!!

 

[missydebby]

Hi guys,
been lurking on this thread. Can you tell me if this is kosher... if was perusing a vendor I know that sells estate jewelry. (A highly rated vendor that everybody here probably knows.) They are selling a 7+ J/K VVS carat boulder for $59,000 and I''m dying to tell johnnydanger where to look and at least contact the store find out, because it''s soooooo much cheaper.

Is that allowed on this forum?

 

[anitabee]

just my 2 cents... but if you''ve got ALL that $ to spend on something magnificent, wouldn''t you want to get the best color as well as cut?

the bigger the stone is, the more color shows. i''ve got an i myself and can definitely see some color particularly in certain lighting such as fluorescent. if i were your girl and knowing you had a big budget, i''d be expecting at least a g color. you really can''t go wrong with a g. really, though, why not go for the gusto? a d-e-f?

 

[jgny]

I would suggest starting at G VS1, and then going up from there, especially at the size you are considering.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

that 4 ct from JA looks amazing. lorelei has given you great advice.
I would call vendors like brian gavin and whiteflash and wink at high performance too to see what they think. Diamonds that large are not always carried in stock and/or listed on line. I''d also call Yekutiel at ID jewelry and see what he can offer. Sometimes he has access to amazing ideal AGS 000 stones...

 

[waxing lyrical]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:11:21 AM
Author: Lorelei
This one might be perfect, I don''t know how flexible your budget is but it has incredible potential....


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1184358.asp

This one hands down.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 4/10/2010 8:04:04 AM
Author: jonnydanger
Wow, response almost instantly! Thanks for your advice. My girlfriend tried on a 3 carat the other day and said that she really prefers something larger than 4 carat. I''m in the market for a round diamond and I also feel for diamond of 4-5 carat that looks absolutely stunning, a solitaire setting sounds good. Within my budget, for a rock this size, is it possible to get something that would look absolutely stunning in this size range?

Jonny...you know she wants a big rock,but do you know her color comfort level?

 

[bgray]

Date: 4/11/2010 8:10:58 PM
Author: jgny
I would suggest starting at G VS1, and then going up from there, especially at the size you are considering.

He said he has a budget and he cant really much more than a 4 carat with his budget if he goes G vs1. I got the impression he would prefer 4.5 to 5.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/11/2010 11:50:41 PM
Author: bgray

Date: 4/11/2010 8:10:58 PM
Author: jgny
I would suggest starting at G VS1, and then going up from there, especially at the size you are considering.

He said he has a budget and he cant really much more than a 4 carat with his budget if he goes G vs1. I got the impression he would prefer 4.5 to 5.

Yes, there is not much out there for that size and getting a higher colour is going to break the budget unfortunately unless Jonny wants to get a smaller rock, and I get the impression he won't go below 4 cts. That H colour should still be very white and could be a gorgeous diamond!!!

Anita,

Jonny has said his GF wants at least 4 carats so unless she is prepared to lower the size considerably, unfortunately D E or F colour is not going to be possible for the budget.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/11/2010 6:45:28 PM
Author: missydebby
Hi guys,
been lurking on this thread. Can you tell me if this is kosher... if was perusing a vendor I know that sells estate jewelry. (A highly rated vendor that everybody here probably knows.) They are selling a 7+ J/K VVS carat boulder for $59,000 and I'm dying to tell johnnydanger where to look and at least contact the store find out, because it's soooooo much cheaper.

Is that allowed on this forum?

Its a thought Miss Debby but a split grade J/K and the price suggest it isn't GIA graded and in that size it is possibly going to be tinted....You can certainly post the link if you wish.