4.36 ct. RB diamond......HELP, should I get it?

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Does the jeweler have a comparably sized diamond that is GIA or AGS 000 (no matter what the price) that you can compare the EGL stone with. Maybe side by side there will be a huge difference and maybe there won't. And maybe that will matter to you and maybe it won't.

When I posted this I secretly hoped you would find that in some situations a "regular" person cannot see the difference between the top cut grades in some diamonds. I was behind the scenes cheering you on to buy this diamond. But now, I gotta say that lower color is more than likey going to bother you at some point. Yes, it is true that well cut stones show less color or should I say return more light so color is less noticeable, but it's also true that all L stones do show color. What looks really white to you now, will somehow start looking more and more yellow as you are out and about in different lighting conditions, etc-- this is especially true if you set it in yellow gold. If you think you are color sensitive then you are and a low price is never going to change this fact. I think you have to like the warmth that is usually obvious in L diamonds and I would never suggest going that low in color if you don't like that ivory/ warmth in diamonds because you will see it. Mind you, I am a huge fan of lower colored diamonds, but not everyone is. I think you should head over to your jeweler and now take a look at higher and lower color diamonds side by side in all kinds of lighting and see what you think.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You will have to give me an example of one stone that is higher priced with an EGL grade than the same stone graded by GIA to prove your point....here is my proof. You can leave your condescending attitude behind as well...show me the proof of what you are stating please. I am just being accurate from what I have seen with my own two eyes. Did you even read the reports I posted earlier comparing grading labs? Probably not.

For the lurkers and interested readers, here is my proof: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/[/URL] Many respected experts commented in that thread and many others here on PS regarding this issue and their comments support what I stated.

If diamonds actually traded at the same price with EGL or GIA reports, then there would be no need for EGL, as vendors would have no incentive to use a lab with a poor general reputation in the trade (search EGL to see many many posts by trade member on PS supporting this assertion). The motivation for vendors to use EGL is to make more money.

EGL is not a good value for consumers because buyers will pay more for a diamond with an EGL report than they would for the same diamond with a GIA report. Examples where a stone is being sold where is is *known* to have two reports are not valid comparisons because in that case, the vendor would be pricing the stone using both grades as a basis.

 

[Chloegal]

This is one of the most interesting threads for me. It sort of involves real life motivations (wanting larger stone) v. all the other stuff that needs to be compromised. Plus, it involves the really hard part of working out what you really want for the budget you have.

I can really relate to the large rock camp because it is considered prestigious to wear a large `rock` and most people dont pick up on if the color or quality isnt perfect. Size is in a camp all of its own. My Mum has a 4 carat plus diamond like this and she gets lots of compliments. Plus the whole antique diamond fashion thing means warmer diamonds are not looked down on.

However, it is really good advice to compare what else you can get for the same budget. I can understand someone prefering a really white under 2 carat stone also for the same budget.

Finally I am always amazed at how expensive all the 4 C`s really are in reality!!!!

 

[Christina...]

You will have to give me an example of one stone that is higher priced with an EGL grade than the same stone graded by GIA to prove your point....here is my proof. You can leave your condescending attitude behind as well...show me the proof of what you are stating please. I am just being accurate from what I have seen with my own two eyes. Did you even read the reports I posted earlier comparing grading labs? Probably not.

For the lurkers and interested readers, here is my proof: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/[/URL] Many respected experts commented in that thread and many others here on PS regarding this issue and their comments support what I stated.

If diamonds actually traded at the same price with EGL or GIA reports, then there would be no need for EGL, as vendors would have no incentive to use a lab with a poor general reputation in the trade (search EGL to see many many posts by trade member on PS supporting this assertion). The motivation for vendors to use EGL is to make more money.

EGL is not a good value for consumers because buyers will pay more for a diamond with an EGL report than they would for the same diamond with a GIA report. Examples where a stone is being sold where is is *known* to have two reports are not valid comparisons because in that case, the vendor would be pricing the stone using both grades as a basis.

Great thread! I missed it the first time around, but it's a great reference for others that will come around asking the same questions regarding labs, grading and value!

 

[ariel144]

Ariel, there is a lot of misinformation in your posts, but stated with a lot of confidence. Above are but two corrections to incorrect information you have written. I think you should do some more reading yourself before you so vociferously argue that others posting in this thread are wrong.

Very nicely stated.

Ariel, this isn't the first time you've blessed a thread with your very firm opinions, which are wrong. Please stop and spend some time to learn more. It creates friction and looks very poor to the genuine newbies and shoppers when we have to spend our time correcting you. Especially since you argue back, confident despite your ignorance.

Agreed! Ariel, opinions are always welcomed here, and they tend to lead to some very educational and worthy discussions, but by stating your OPINIONS as FACT only mucks up the board and confuses newcommers who are trying to make an educated and informed decision.

I also read the articles that you linked and failed to see that they proved your point.

I posted those articles for Andrea to read because she was looking to buy an EGL stone which almost everyone in this thread was telling her not to buy, and for those who kept telling her to look for another stone graded by GIA or AGS.

When it comes to value based on grading reports, it appears to me we are talking about 2 different markets in the diamond world...the online market vs. the retail market. I was not addressing the retail store market, as they obviously consistently overprice diamonds...they have a high overhead to keep up with. I was only addressing what I have seen online.

Unscrupulous retail jewelers will overprice their diamonds based on grading reports that are inaccurate as in the case of this 4.36c EGL stone. This unscrupulous jeweler had it overpriced by $7,000 compared to other sites on the web. So therefore the general public who does not take the time to research the diamond market can be taken advantage of. Attempts at researching can be overwhelmingly confusing for most people, that is why I keep suggesting the best diamond research site on the web, GOG. If one educates themselves there they will find out what is truly the most important aspects in purchasing a truly beautiful diamond.

They may find that an D/E/F color is really not that important if the stone is exceptionally well cut also the same goes with clarity. As a novice buyer, I thought a high color was so important until I watched the videos on GOG. And as Andrea has found by comparing her L to several I's out there, she found it wasn't important to her either...as her L is facing up so white she couldn't tell much difference. She is learning by experience that color is not really what makes the diamond the most beautiful but performance.

I have not asked Andrea to take my word for anything or my "opinion". I am encouraging her to research it for herself...color, clarity and especially cut. What I have seen and experienced, which is not opinion, but fact, is based on what I have seen in pricing diamonds online, not in the retail market. I have no doubt that many EGL stones in retail stores are over priced for their true grade.

The more I come to PS, the more I learn. I am looking to buy a very large diamond purchase in the very near future and is the reason I come into PS, so I can make the right decision for me. Just as Andrea is attempting to do. And she has gotten some sound advice to take the stone to an appraiser, she has compared it to higher graded diamonds and says it stacks up to their performance as well.

But before I purchase I will get the experts to find me the best stones for the best price and compare them all...Jonathan at GOG, Engagementringsdirect.com and this guy at this site:
www.bestdiamondsearch.com ...seem to be some good places to start.

I have posted these sites for Andrea to get help from them too, to find the best stone in her price point, but she seems to be in a hurry and probably tired of looking.

There are those in this thread that keep encouraging this girl to buy a GIA or AGS stone regardless of what she has stated in comparing the EGL stone to other higher colored EX stones graded by AGS/GIA etc. And that is what I have been addressing, as I do not necessarily agree with those opinions, based on my own personal experience.

I am just trying to help this girl get educated so that she is confident in her diamond choice if she does choose the EGL stone, which is going against the "opinions" of so many in this thread and adding to her lack of confidence..even though she knows what she is seeing. I am not the one who would presume to educate her on these things but sending her to online sites that can.

I have told my story of purchasing an EGL stone in the past and it was a beautiful stone that I got a lot of compliments on from strangers and friends. That is fact and not opinion. Maybe her stone will be the best stone for her budget and maybe not, but I was simply sharing my experience on purchasing an EGL F SI2 stone that was 1-2 color grades off, but still eye clean and a great make. She asked for opinions on her stone and I have given her my personal experience with a beautiful EGL stone and the tools I have found helpful in my diamond search as well. If that does not agree with others who think GIA grading is the only way to go to get the best stone at the best price then so be it. We can agree to disagree and in posting help those who are searching for that perfect stone for themselves or their loved ones.

 

[Gypsy]

Ariel, there is a lot of misinformation in your posts, but stated with a lot of confidence. Above are but two corrections to incorrect information you have written. I think you should do some more reading yourself before you so vociferously argue that others posting in this thread are wrong.

Very nicely stated.

Ariel, this isn't the first time you've blessed a thread with your very firm opinions, which are wrong. Please stop and spend some time to learn more. It creates friction and looks very poor to the genuine newbies and shoppers when we have to spend our time correcting you. Especially since you argue back, confident despite your ignorance.

Agreed! Ariel, opinions are always welcomed here, and they tend to lead to some very educational and worthy discussions, but by stating your OPINIONS as FACT only mucks up the board and confuses newcommers who are trying to make an educated and informed decision.

I also read the articles that you linked and failed to see that they proved your point.

I posted those articles for Andrea to read because she was looking to buy an EGL stone which almost everyone in this thread was telling her not to buy, and for those who kept telling her to look for another stone graded by GIA or AGS.

When it comes to value based on grading reports, it appears to me we are talking about 2 different markets in the diamond world...the online market vs. the retail market. I was not addressing the retail store market, as they obviously consistently overprice diamonds...they have a high overhead to keep up with. I was only addressing what I have seen online.

Unscrupulous retail jewelers will overprice their diamonds based on grading reports that are inaccurate as in the case of this 4.36c EGL stone. This unscrupulous jeweler had it overpriced by $7,000 compared to other sites on the web. So therefore the general public who does not take the time to research the diamond market can be taken advantage of. Attempts at researching can be overwhelmingly confusing for most people Your opinion, not fact, that is why I keep suggesting the best diamond research site on the web, GOG Your opinion, not fact. If one educates themselves there they will find out what is truly the most important aspects in purchasing a truly beautiful diamond Your opinion, not fact.

They may find that an D/E/F color is really not that important if the stone is exceptionally well cut also the same goes with clarity. As a novice buyer, I thought a high color was so important until I watched the videos on GOG. And as Andrea has found by comparing her L to several I's out there, she found it wasn't important to her either...as her L is facing up so white she couldn't tell much difference. She is learning by experience that color is not really what makes the diamond the most beautiful but performance.

I have not asked Andrea to take my word for anything or my "opinion". I am encouraging her to research it for herself...color, clarity and especially cut. What I have seen and experienced, which is not opinion, but fact, is based on what I have seen in pricing diamonds online, not in the retail market Your LIMITED experience . I have no doubt that many EGL stones in retail stores are over priced for their true grade And you know this HOW? .

The more I come to PS, the more I learn. I am looking to buy a very large diamond purchase in the very near future and is the reason I come into PS, so I can make the right decision for me. Just as Andrea is attempting to do. And she has gotten some sound advice to take the stone to an appraiser, she has compared it to higher graded diamonds and says it stacks up to their performance as well.

But before I purchase I will get the experts to find me the best stones for the best price and compare them all...Jonathan at GOG, Engagementringsdirect.com and this guy at this site:
www.bestdiamondsearch.com ...seem to be some good places to start.

I have posted these sites for Andrea to get help from them too, to find the best stone in her price point, but she seems to be in a hurry and probably tired of looking.

There are those in this thread that keep encouraging this girl to buy a GIA or AGS stone regardless of what she has stated in comparing the EGL stone to other higher colored EX stones graded by AGS/GIA etc. And that is what I have been addressing, as I do not necessarily agree with those opinions, based on my own personal LIMITED experience But that's not how you stated it, you stated it as fact, you didn't qualify it with "in my LIMITED experience" as you Dreamer, Christina, and I pointed out.

I am just trying to help this girl get educated so that she is confident in her diamond choice if she does choose the EGL stone, which is going against the "opinions" of so many in this thread and adding to her lack of confidence..even though she knows what she is seeing But does she? How educated are her eyes when she can't tell an I from a K, how do you know that her eyes are going to fare any better judging PERFORMANCE which is even harder than color to judge. I am not the one who would presume to educate her Nope, you certainly did presume on these things but sending her to online sites that can.

I have told my story of purchasing an EGL stone in the past and it was a beautiful stone that I got a lot of compliments on from strangers and friends. That is fact and not opinion No, it's not fact, it's your true experience which is different from empirical fact. For all you know everyone was being polite. That's why it's called experience and not fact . Maybe her stone will be the best stone for her budget and maybe not, but I was simply sharing my experience on purchasing an EGL F SI2 stone that was 1-2 color grades off, but still eye clean and a great make. She asked for opinions on her stone and I have given her my personal experience with a beautiful EGL stone and the tools I have found helpful in my diamond search as well. If that does not agree with others who think GIA grading is the only way to go to get the best stone at the best price then so be it NOT what we objected to. We objected to you stating your experience as fact, that's all. We can agree to disagree and in posting help those who are searching for that perfect stone for themselves or their loved ones.

See the red above for what you are just.not.getting.

 

[ariel144]

I forgot to mention that the two large jewelry stores I stopped at both had various large stones (3, 4 and 5 carats). Even their similar large EGL stones were priced around $70,000! Almost all of their stones didn't even look as good as the one I brought in! They must be baking on the fact that many shoppers are not educated, and will think that an EGL G is a true G. Some people probably don't even know the differences between different certifications, and that there is actually a company that gets away with flat out lying about the characteristics of the diamonds they are grading!

Andrea,
Don't forget the fact that the jeweler who purchased the stone thought it was a good looking stone for the price or he would never have added it to his inventory.

When I purchased my EGL 2.1c F SI2 radiant Ronni said that if I didn't buy it he was going to purchase it and send it to a jewelry store on consignment and they would be able to get $5,000 over what I paid for it. Interesting huh? Maybe some will say that it was a sales ploy but after I saw the radiant which was cut like a brilliant and not that crushed ice appearance I knew he was telling me the truth.

I would find stones online and run them by him and he would say...I do not trust that guy...I will not buy that stone for you, you will have to get it from someone else. I ran so many stones by him and when I found "my stone" he said that I found a needle in the haystack. He said the jeweler that owned it was very reputable and on the info. it stated "great make". He called it in to look at it first before he sent it to me.

Ronni has been in business for over 30 years www.buydiamonddirect.com... He educated me on how GIA is more accurate in their grading, and I looked and looked for a GIA stone but couldn't find one that was what i wanted in my price range.

Anyway, maybe you too have found a needle in the haystack. Good luck with your decision. What is pleasing to your eye is the most important of course.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You will have to give me an example of one stone that is higher priced with an EGL grade than the same stone graded by GIA to prove your point....here is my proof. You can leave your condescending attitude behind as well...show me the proof of what you are stating please. I am just being accurate from what I have seen with my own two eyes. Did you even read the reports I posted earlier comparing grading labs? Probably not.

For the lurkers and interested readers, here is my proof: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/[/URL] Many respected experts commented in that thread and many others here on PS regarding this issue and their comments support what I stated.

If diamonds actually traded at the same price with EGL or GIA reports, then there would be no need for EGL, as vendors would have no incentive to use a lab with a poor general reputation in the trade (search EGL to see many many posts by trade member on PS supporting this assertion). The motivation for vendors to use EGL is to make more money.

EGL is not a good value for consumers because buyers will pay more for a diamond with an EGL report than they would for the same diamond with a GIA report. Examples where a stone is being sold where is is *known* to have two reports are not valid comparisons because in that case, the vendor would be pricing the stone using both grades as a basis.

Great thread! I missed it the first time around, but it's a great reference for others that will come around asking the same questions regarding labs, grading and value!

I'd like to note there is one notable exception to these general rules, and that is the old cut (OEC, OMC) market. In that market, the norm is to use EGL. There may be many reasons for that, but one notable reason is that GIA has a funny habit of categorixing old cuts as "round brilliants" and then grading their cut as Fair or Poor. Perhaps because of this or other factors, the old cut market migrated to EGL. It is actually hard to find old cuts with GIA reports, most have no reports or EGL reports. WHen pricing GIA old cuts it is hard to find comps. So that is a niche market where EGL seems to dominate and it is a bit of an open question in my mind whether that hurts consumers the same way that it does for modern RBs.

 

[Dreamer_D]

When I purchased my EGL 2.1c F SI2 radiant Ronni said that if I didn't buy it he was going to purchase it and send it to a jewelry store on consignment and they would be able to get $5,000 over what I paid for it. Interesting huh? Maybe some will say that it was a sales ploy but after I saw the radiant which was cut like a brilliant and not that crushed ice appearance I knew he was telling me the truth.

This is indeed a common sales ploy used by jewelers, among others. They will say things like "If you don't buy it I am going to buy it for my own persoanl inventory!" or "It is on consignment and if it doesn't sell today the owner is going to take it off consignment!" or "I can sell it to you now at this lower price without a lab report, to save myself the time of sending it for grading, or you can wait and pay twice as much when it comes back from the lab!" I personally have heard all of these sales tactics numerous times from sellers, and fell for the first one before I started spending time on PS.

 

[ariel144]

When I purchased my EGL 2.1c F SI2 radiant Ronni said that if I didn't buy it he was going to purchase it and send it to a jewelry store on consignment and they would be able to get $5,000 over what I paid for it. Interesting huh? Maybe some will say that it was a sales ploy but after I saw the radiant which was cut like a brilliant and not that crushed ice appearance I knew he was telling me the truth.

This is indeed a common sales ploy used by jewelers, among others. They will say things like "If you don't buy it I am going to buy it for my own persoanl inventory!" or "It is on consignment and if it doesn't sell today the owner is going to take it off consignment!" or "I can sell it to you now at this lower price without a lab report, to save myself the time of sending it for grading, or you can wait and pay twice as much when it comes back from the lab!" I personally have heard all of these sales tactics numerous times from sellers, and fell for the first one before I started spending time on PS.

LOL, twice as much after grading! Oh brother.
Yes,"it was probably a sales ploy" that is why I qualified it with the whole story, ....but he had been up front in the past and wouldn't buy certain stones that i had found, he told me i would have to get them from someone else, because he did not trust the owner and would not do business with them. The jeweler that custom made the ring for me, when her father saw the stone asked her if it was a 3 carat. (He had been in the business for 35 years) It faced up very large without being spready (64 depth) and was a great stone for my measly $8,000 budget.

 

[Christina...]

Ariel, there is a lot of misinformation in your posts, but stated with a lot of confidence. Above are but two corrections to incorrect information you have written. I think you should do some more reading yourself before you so vociferously argue that others posting in this thread are wrong.

Very nicely stated.

Ariel, this isn't the first time you've blessed a thread with your very firm opinions, which are wrong. Please stop and spend some time to learn more. It creates friction and looks very poor to the genuine newbies and shoppers when we have to spend our time correcting you. Especially since you argue back, confident despite your ignorance.

Agreed! Ariel, opinions are always welcomed here, and they tend to lead to some very educational and worthy discussions, but by stating your OPINIONS as FACT only mucks up the board and confuses newcommers who are trying to make an educated and informed decision.

I also read the articles that you linked and failed to see that they proved your point.

I posted those articles for Andrea to read because she was looking to buy an EGL stone which almost everyone in this thread was telling her not to buy, and for those who kept telling her to look for another stone graded by GIA or AGS.

When it comes to value based on grading reports, it appears to me we are talking about 2 different markets in the diamond world...the online market vs. the retail market. I was not addressing the retail store market, as they obviously consistently overprice diamonds...they have a high overhead to keep up with. I was only addressing what I have seen online.

Unscrupulous retail jewelers will overprice their diamonds based on grading reports that are inaccurate as in the case of this 4.36c EGL stone. This unscrupulous jeweler had it overpriced by $7,000 compared to other sites on the web. So therefore the general public who does not take the time to research the diamond market can be taken advantage of. Attempts at researching can be overwhelmingly confusing for most people, that is why I keep suggesting the best diamond research site on the web, GOG. If one educates themselves there they will find out what is truly the most important aspects in purchasing a truly beautiful diamond.

They may find that an D/E/F color is really not that important if the stone is exceptionally well cut also the same goes with clarity. As a novice buyer, I thought a high color was so important until I watched the videos on GOG. And as Andrea has found by comparing her L to several I's out there, she found it wasn't important to her either...as her L is facing up so white she couldn't tell much difference. She is learning by experience that color is not really what makes the diamond the most beautiful but performance.

I have not asked Andrea to take my word for anything or my "opinion". I am encouraging her to research it for herself...color, clarity and especially cut. What I have seen and experienced, which is not opinion, but fact, is based on what I have seen in pricing diamonds online, not in the retail market. I have no doubt that many EGL stones in retail stores are over priced for their true grade.

The more I come to PS, the more I learn. I am looking to buy a very large diamond purchase in the very near future and is the reason I come into PS, so I can make the right decision for me. Just as Andrea is attempting to do. And she has gotten some sound advice to take the stone to an appraiser, she has compared it to higher graded diamonds and says it stacks up to their performance as well.

But before I purchase I will get the experts to find me the best stones for the best price and compare them all...Jonathan at GOG, Engagementringsdirect.com and this guy at this site:
www.bestdiamondsearch.com ...seem to be some good places to start.

I have posted these sites for Andrea to get help from them too, to find the best stone in her price point, but she seems to be in a hurry and probably tired of looking.

There are those in this thread that keep encouraging this girl to buy a GIA or AGS stone regardless of what she has stated in comparing the EGL stone to other higher colored EX stones graded by AGS/GIA etc. And that is what I have been addressing, as I do not necessarily agree with those opinions, based on my own personal experience.

I am just trying to help this girl get educated so that she is confident in her diamond choice if she does choose the EGL stone, which is going against the "opinions" of so many in this thread and adding to her lack of confidence..even though she knows what she is seeing. I am not the one who would presume to educate her on these things but sending her to online sites that can.

I have told my story of purchasing an EGL stone in the past and it was a beautiful stone that I got a lot of compliments on from strangers and friends. That is fact and not opinion. Maybe her stone will be the best stone for her budget and maybe not, but I was simply sharing my experience on purchasing an EGL F SI2 stone that was 1-2 color grades off, but still eye clean and a great make. She asked for opinions on her stone and I have given her my personal experience with a beautiful EGL stone and the tools I have found helpful in my diamond search as well. If that does not agree with others who think GIA grading is the only way to go to get the best stone at the best price then so be it. We can agree to disagree and in posting help those who are searching for that perfect stone for themselves or their loved ones.

While your 'trying to help this girl get educated', I thought that I would point out that the sites your sending her to for that education, do NOT carry EGL stones for a reason. Both GOG and ERD are ethical, knowledgable and well respected vendors, I'll leave it to Jonathon and Mark to explain their reasoning for not carrying EGL stones. It's also naive to believe that it's only
'unscrupulous retail jewelers' that misrepresent their diamonds. Any vendor, (BM or online) that sells EGL certed stones, is guilty of misrepresentation, if they do not inform their customers of what it is that they are purchasing.

A page back you were continuing to encourage Andrea to purchase this stone even though she now knew that it was misrepresented, so which is it? Are you encouraging her to purchase from these 'unscrupulous retailers' or are you encouraging to 'get educated'?

 

[Christina...]

When I purchased my EGL 2.1c F SI2 radiant Ronni said that if I didn't buy it he was going to purchase it and send it to a jewelry store on consignment and they would be able to get $5,000 over what I paid for it. Interesting huh? Maybe some will say that it was a sales ploy but after I saw the radiant which was cut like a brilliant and not that crushed ice appearance I knew he was telling me the truth.

This is indeed a common sales ploy used by jewelers, among others. They will say things like "If you don't buy it I am going to buy it for my own persoanl inventory!" or "It is on consignment and if it doesn't sell today the owner is going to take it off consignment!" or "I can sell it to you now at this lower price without a lab report, to save myself the time of sending it for grading, or you can wait and pay twice as much when it comes back from the lab!" I personally have heard all of these sales tactics numerous times from sellers, and fell for the first one before I started spending time on PS.

LOL, twice as much after grading! Oh brother.
Yes,"it was probably a sales ploy" that is why I qualified it with the whole story, ....but he had been up front in the past and wouldn't buy certain stones that i had found, he told me i would have to get them from someone else, because he did not trust the owner and would not do business with them. The jeweler that custom made the ring for me, when her father saw the stone asked her if it was a 3 carat. (He had been in the business for 35 years) It faced up very large without being spready (64 depth) and was a great stone for my measly $8,000 budget.

It faces up very large without being spready What does this mean? It was shallow, poorly cut? I saw this exact description for a stone on ebay recently.

ETA I just wanted to add in regards to my previous post that I really don't have an opinion as to what Andrea should do in this situation. My only advice is that if she loved the stone before the appraiser evaluated it then she may be very happy, but thats a personal decision. My point was simply that you (Ariel) appear to have conflicting thoughts and advice, and that isnt helpful or informative to anyone.

I apologise to Andrea for having gotten off track, and I hope that you are happy with whatever you chose to do and I'll look forward to seeing pictures when you make your final decision.

 

[ariel144]

You will have to give me an example of one stone that is higher priced with an EGL grade than the same stone graded by GIA to prove your point....here is my proof. You can leave your condescending attitude behind as well...show me the proof of what you are stating please. I am just being accurate from what I have seen with my own two eyes. Did you even read the reports I posted earlier comparing grading labs? Probably not.

For the lurkers and interested readers, here is my proof: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-vs-egl-usa-vs-egl-international-which-is-the-best-deal.162154/[/URL] Many respected experts commented in that thread and many others here on PS regarding this issue and their comments support what I stated.

If diamonds actually traded at the same price with EGL or GIA reports, then there would be no need for EGL, as vendors would have no incentive to use a lab with a poor general reputation in the trade (search EGL to see many many posts by trade member on PS supporting this assertion). The motivation for vendors to use EGL is to make more money.

EGL is not a good value for consumers because buyers will pay more for a diamond with an EGL report than they would for the same diamond with a GIA report. Examples where a stone is being sold where is is *known* to have two reports are not valid comparisons because in that case, the vendor would be pricing the stone using both grades as a basis.

Great thread! I missed it the first time around, but it's a great reference for others that will come around asking the same questions regarding labs, grading and value!

I'd like to note there is one notable exception to these general rules, and that is the old cut (OEC, OMC) market. In that market, the norm is to use EGL. There may be many reasons for that, but one notable reason is that GIA has a funny habit of categorixing old cuts as "round brilliants" and then grading their cut as Fair or Poor. Perhaps because of this or other factors, the old cut market migrated to EGL. It is actually hard to find old cuts with GIA reports, most have no reports or EGL reports. WHen pricing GIA old cuts it is hard to find comps. So that is a niche market where EGL seems to dominate and it is a bit of an open question in my mind whether that hurts consumers the same way that it does for modern RBs.

Good question....There are so few of these OEC's and OMC's on the market ...(at least over 4 carats) . I have seen a few GIA certs on GOG and engagementringsdirect, that classified them as Old European Brilliant or Old Mine Brilliant but Old World Diamonds have mostly EGLUSA reports as does Erica Grace where you can see her antique and vintage stones (great site). And the Polish and Symmetry are usually only good to fair and at best Vgood. Except for the August Vintage that GOG have custom cut and graded by AGS are usually IDEAL/IDEAL. That is the only high end comparison one can make. But it seems that the good/fair in polish and symmetry can be excellent performing stones. Those little buggars break all the rules it seems. Leon Mege has a lot of chunky cushions too. Haven't seen any of Leon's Gia certs though to know if they are classified as cushion brilliant or old mine brilliant.

I was wondering if they pick the best of the EGL's and get them recert-ed by GIA. It is hard to say if these stones are over priced with the EGLUSA reports without seeing the stones. What do you compare them to as they seem to break all the rules???.... a GIA cushion brilliant that has a specific cut measurement and they turn out chunky faceted (VERY hard to find but usually better polish and symm.). But one can know that the color is usually one grade off with EGLUSA. In this case maybe rarity is what might drive the price up and who can say if that is over priced. (Maybe they get them straight from the cutters and then get them certified.)

It takes a lot of effort to shop these rarer old cut stones...ugh...been looking at them for a while now. Decided i might need to get one custom cut by GOG to get the size that i want in an OEC. How about the girl that is selling her 3c D AVC to get a warmer OEC. Beautiful ring too. These old cuts are fascinating though and I love them.

So are the EGLUSA IDEAL PLUS Hearts and Arrows not comparable to a GIA AGS hearts and arrows? I saw them for the first time on
http://www.usacerteddiamonds.com (polygon search) and they had a lot of 4 carat stones in Andrea's price range that were "Ideal Plus" Hearts and Arrows...EGLUSA. I only know there are true hearts and arrows and then those that come close. Has anyone seen these stones in person? Round brilliants are not my favorites but these looked nice and I put one in the HCA and it scored 4 EX's and a 1.2 grade.

 

[Chloegal]

I forgot to mention that the two large jewelry stores I stopped at both had various large stones (3, 4 and 5 carats). Even their similar large EGL stones were priced around $70,000! Almost all of their stones didn't even look as good as the one I brought in! They must be baking on the fact that many shoppers are not educated, and will think that an EGL G is a true G. Some people probably don't even know the differences between different certifications, and that there is actually a company that gets away with flat out lying about the characteristics of the diamonds they are grading!

Andrea,
Don't forget the fact that the jeweler who purchased the stone thought it was a good looking stone for the price or he would never have added it to his inventory.

When I purchased my EGL 2.1c F SI2 radiant Ronni said that if I didn't buy it he was going to purchase it and send it to a jewelry store on consignment and they would be able to get $5,000 over what I paid for it. Interesting huh? Maybe some will say that it was a sales ploy but after I saw the radiant which was cut like a brilliant and not that crushed ice appearance I knew he was telling me the truth.

I would find stones online and run them by him and he would say...I do not trust that guy...I will not buy that stone for you, you will have to get it from someone else. I ran so many stones by him and when I found "my stone" he said that I found a needle in the haystack. He said the jeweler that owned it was very reputable and on the info. it stated "great make". He called it in to look at it first before he sent it to me.

Ronni has been in business for over 30 years www.buydiamonddirect.com..... He educated me on how GIA is more accurate in their grading, and I looked and looked for a GIA stone but couldn't find one that was what i wanted in my price range.

Anyway, maybe you too have found a needle in the haystack. Good luck with your decision. What is pleasing to your eye is the most important of course.

I think your reasons here are getting more and more far fetched. eg the first point is just guessing the facts. We have no idea why or how the diamond came to be part of this jewelers inventory. It might be on consignment for all we know. And by that logic all stock in shops would be woth buying? Plus, you as a consumer are going to be told lots of stories and anicdotes to increase your confidence and your trust & relationship with the seller.

Everytime you go to buy clothes & the shop attendants tell you that you are buying their favourite pieces from the new season. I hope you dont really bank on that being true.

And even if your story worked out for you, it doesnt mean others would interpret your results the same as you seem to. Like you quote your stats as accurate knowing that they are not accurate.

 

[andrea1216]

I really thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and opinions with me. I think after my obsessing behavior over the last few days, I may be looking for a new husband along with my new ring! Much to my amazement, the jeweler (who himself has this diamond out on memo from the cutter) is allowing me to keep it until Tuesday when the store reopens. Would you believe that this 4 carat LOOSE stone has followed me everywhere I have been over the last two days! It started with a trip to the appraiser then went to a few jewelry stores, followed by a night out at a nice restaurant. Sometimes it stays in an old jewelry box in my purse and other times, it gets a spot front and center at the table. Today, it even got to go to my son's little league baseball game, before making it to a few more jewelry stores and out to dinner AGAIN! Honestly, I think that I am now loosing my mind.

I have placed it in dozens of settings and set it next to stones of all sizes and colors. I have done so at jewelry stores of all kinds, from the small mom and pop jewelry stores with estate jewelry to high end jewelry stores on Beach Avenue. After all of this, I am still amazed at how much this ring sparkles and how white it faces up, even compared to stones several shades whiter on the color scale. After placing it in setting with and without halos, I am pleasantly surprised that it looks nice with a halo made of G/H micro pave stones. The two actually seems to compliment one another and the color difference seems negligible. Believe it or not, I am actually starting to like the slight warmth it has, which only seems to make it more fiery and colorful.

I honestly never thought that I would own a diamond with an "L" color, but this stone may just be "the one." I am certainly not a diamond expert, but this is my third large diamond ring purchase in 10 years, so I have certainly looked at my fair share of diamonds. I think I mentioned it in my first post, but the first one went down the kitchen sink garbage disposal and the second one was either lost or stolen back in January. My first stone was an "G" in color and my last stone was an "I" in color, and each time I have gone up in size. I have loved them all! This diamond has many pros: price, size, extremely eye clean, great cut, brilliant and sparkly. On paper, the only drawback is it's color, which I am actually starting to love. I am also thinking that once set, nobody would even be able to guess that is wasn't a near colorless stone like an "I" in color.

I have been looking endlessly online at diamonds and their prices and I guess I am just surprised that to go a little better in color, I will have to sacrifice size by almost a full carat AND go up in price by $7,000 to $10,000. I even looked online at stones of J color with medium fluorescence, only to find that these stones seem to be actually priced high. I was under the impression that fluorescence brought the value of a diamond down.

At the end of the day, I just need to know that I am getting a really good deal. I am the type of person that could have millions in the bank, but still cut coupons. The appraiser told me that, according to RAP, wholesale for the diamond is around $25,000. Abazias has it listed at $27,800 and before I knew this, I "worked" the jeweler down to $34,000. I will not pay more to purchase from the jeweler, so is $27,800 a fair price when compared to the wholesale value?

I know it is not what many would choose, but I still do love a micro pave halo setting, no matter how large the center stone is. Here are a few links to settings that I would consider IF I buy this stone......

http://www.ringenvy.com/rings/ericas-2.64ct-antique-cushion-micropave-halo

http://hellobeautiful.com/gossip-news/hellobeautifulstaff2/jennifer-hudson-wedding-details/
(but with only one halo)

http://ringspotters.com/2011/05/celebrity-engagement-ring-adriana-lima.html

Thanks again for all the opinions and posts. Believe it or not, the differing opinions are very helpful. Tomorrow I am going to brunch with some friends at a restaurant where there is a Mayors and a Tiffany's. I am going to compare this stone to what is supposed to be the best of the best in quality of stones. I think after tomorrow, I will be able to make my decision. I am so sorry for the ridiculously long post. I think, in part, this is such a tough decision for me because I am trying to pick something that I can feel proud to someday pass down to my adorable 4 year old daughter s. Maybe I should let her pick!

 

[Gypsy]

27,800 is fine but you already KNOW you can get that so for me IN THIS CASE ONLY it would be my ceiling. But since that's not based on knowing the TRUE color of the stone, or it's TRUE clarity I would still bargain with the jeweler, especially since they KNOWINGLY and PURPOSELY mislead you to thinking it was an I color and didn't even START to fess up that the color was lower color until you were almost out the door to an appraiser.

IF you start with that, he will WORK for your business and be more willing to negotiate.

I would tell them that the appraiser gave you a 25,000 value for it. And start off by saying that you think 26,000 is fair. If he quotes a price at above 27,800 tell him you can get 27,800 already and after misleading you you aren't going to reward him with your business unless he beats that price. And then if you negotiate for price less than 27,800 then I think it will be worth it.

And then I wouldn't work with them again.

As for your setting, I really love the last one. There is a GORGEOUS high quality setting just like that one at Joe Escobar and PSer Beacon has it: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-my-stone-split-shank.96199/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reset-my-stone-split-shank.96199/[/URL]

It's super high quality (I've louped the thing and ogled it and worn it around the store). And it's very reasonably priced for the quality which is as nice as Leon (I've seen it side by side with a couple Leon's) or Steven Kirshc. The store is in Campbell CA and if you call and ask for either Erik or Maya you can tell them you want to price out the halo that is owned by Beacon-- split shank halo. It's my favorite round split shank halo.

 

[ariel144]

Ariel, there is a lot of misinformation in your posts, but stated with a lot of confidence. Above are but two corrections to incorrect information you have written. I think you should do some more reading yourself before you so vociferously argue that others posting in this thread are wrong.

Very nicely stated.

Ariel, this isn't the first time you've blessed a thread with your very firm opinions, which are wrong. Please stop and spend some time to learn more. It creates friction and looks very poor to the genuine newbies and shoppers when we have to spend our time correcting you. Especially since you argue back, confident despite your ignorance.

Agreed! Ariel, opinions are always welcomed here, and they tend to lead to some very educational and worthy discussions, but by stating your OPINIONS as FACT only mucks up the board and confuses newcommers who are trying to make an educated and informed decision.

I also read the articles that you linked and failed to see that they proved your point.

I posted those articles for Andrea to read because she was looking to buy an EGL stone which almost everyone in this thread was telling her not to buy, and for those who kept telling her to look for another stone graded by GIA or AGS.

When it comes to value based on grading reports, it appears to me we are talking about 2 different markets in the diamond world...the online market vs. the retail market. I was not addressing the retail store market, as they obviously consistently overprice diamonds...they have a high overhead to keep up with. I was only addressing what I have seen online.

Unscrupulous retail jewelers will overprice their diamonds based on grading reports that are inaccurate as in the case of this 4.36c EGL stone. This unscrupulous jeweler had it overpriced by $7,000 compared to other sites on the web. So therefore the general public who does not take the time to research the diamond market can be taken advantage of. Attempts at researching can be overwhelmingly confusing for most people, that is why I keep suggesting the best diamond research site on the web, GOG. If one educates themselves there they will find out what is truly the most important aspects in purchasing a truly beautiful diamond.

They may find that an D/E/F color is really not that important if the stone is exceptionally well cut also the same goes with clarity. As a novice buyer, I thought a high color was so important until I watched the videos on GOG. And as Andrea has found by comparing her L to several I's out there, she found it wasn't important to her either...as her L is facing up so white she couldn't tell much difference. She is learning by experience that color is not really what makes the diamond the most beautiful but performance.

I have not asked Andrea to take my word for anything or my "opinion". I am encouraging her to research it for herself...color, clarity and especially cut. What I have seen and experienced, which is not opinion, but fact, is based on what I have seen in pricing diamonds online, not in the retail market. I have no doubt that many EGL stones in retail stores are over priced for their true grade.

The more I come to PS, the more I learn. I am looking to buy a very large diamond purchase in the very near future and is the reason I come into PS, so I can make the right decision for me. Just as Andrea is attempting to do. And she has gotten some sound advice to take the stone to an appraiser, she has compared it to higher graded diamonds and says it stacks up to their performance as well.

But before I purchase I will get the experts to find me the best stones for the best price and compare them all...Jonathan at GOG, Engagementringsdirect.com and this guy at this site:
www.bestdiamondsearch.com ...seem to be some good places to start.

I have posted these sites for Andrea to get help from them too, to find the best stone in her price point, but she seems to be in a hurry and probably tired of looking.

There are those in this thread that keep encouraging this girl to buy a GIA or AGS stone regardless of what she has stated in comparing the EGL stone to other higher colored EX stones graded by AGS/GIA etc. And that is what I have been addressing, as I do not necessarily agree with those opinions, based on my own personal experience.

I am just trying to help this girl get educated so that she is confident in her diamond choice if she does choose the EGL stone, which is going against the "opinions" of so many in this thread and adding to her lack of confidence..even though she knows what she is seeing. I am not the one who would presume to educate her on these things but sending her to online sites that can.

I have told my story of purchasing an EGL stone in the past and it was a beautiful stone that I got a lot of compliments on from strangers and friends. That is fact and not opinion. Maybe her stone will be the best stone for her budget and maybe not, but I was simply sharing my experience on purchasing an EGL F SI2 stone that was 1-2 color grades off, but still eye clean and a great make. She asked for opinions on her stone and I have given her my personal experience with a beautiful EGL stone and the tools I have found helpful in my diamond search as well. If that does not agree with others who think GIA grading is the only way to go to get the best stone at the best price then so be it. We can agree to disagree and in posting help those who are searching for that perfect stone for themselves or their loved ones.

While your 'trying to help this girl get educated', I thought that I would point out that the sites your sending her to for that education, do NOT carry EGL stones for a reason. Both GOG and ERD are ethical, knowledgable and well respected vendors, I'll leave it to Jonathon and Mark to explain their reasoning for not carrying EGL stones. It's also naive to believe that it's only
'unscrupulous retail jewelers' that misrepresent their diamonds. Any vendor, (BM or online) that sells EGL certed stones, is guilty of misrepresentation, if they do not inform their customers of what it is that they are purchasing.

A page back you were continuing to encourage Andrea to purchase this stone even though she now knew that it was misrepresented, so which is it? Are you encouraging her to purchase from these 'unscrupulous retailers' or are you encouraging to 'get educated'?

How do you know that they don't have stones that were originally graded by EGL and they sent to AGS or GIA to be regraded? You people are just too much and won't quit will you. It is just a report. Good grief. GOG has stones that are graded in house and by no lab, I've heard him say that on one of his videos. Does that make it a bad stone because it has no GIA report? Is it a bad stone if two different GIA graders come up with two different grades of color for the same stone? I had one GIA gemologist tell me my stone was a G and another an H.

I have encouraged Andrea to keep looking and educating herself if she was unsure, but based on her comparisons to other stones she couldn't see much difference and they were $70,000 compared to the cost of the other one which is $27,000. And so if she likes the stone and it fits her budget buy it.

Can you please answer my question about the EGLUSA Ideal Plus hearts and arrows graded round brilliants? Do you know how they compare to the GIA AGS hearts and arrows? I was just wondering if these are over priced for the quality of the stone? So do you think if I had Jonathan at GOG call in one of these "EGL" Ideal Plus Hearts and Arrows and it tested out great in house ...do you think he would not sell me one of these "EGL" stones??? Just asking your expert opinion on this. Thanks, you've been really nice to educate me in my ignorance.

 

[ariel144]

Andrea,

You might want this Co to send this stone to your appraiser to look at and compare to the other one
I think it is in your price range and the grading report is online but if you go to this link you will
have to do a search for the diamond. You will have to ask about the inclusions to have them
check if it is eye-clean:

The HCA grade: 1.4 EX/EX/EX/VG

http://www.usacerteddiamonds.com/usagia/polygon_live_feed.html

EGLUSA Ideal Plus Hearts and Arrows I SI 2
EGLUSA grades more accurately than EGLIntnl.
But even so the color may be a J and not an I.

$32,817.10 USD
Shape Round
Carat Weight 4.03 ct
Lab / Cert ID >> EGLUSA / 902509403 Certificate
Check for Online Certificate

Color: I - Near Colorless


Color slightly detectable. An excellent value.
Clarity: SI2 - Slightly included

SI2

Cut Grade Ideal
Depth % 61 %
Table % 58 %
Symmetry Excellent
Polish Excellent
Girdle Thickness Thin to Medium
Culet Size None
Fluorescence None
Dimensions 10.29x10.24x6.26 mm
L/W Ratio --
Stock Number 31290003

Good luck on your search.

 

[ariel144]

I really thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and opinions with me. I think after my obsessing behavior over the last few days, I may be looking for a new husband along with my new ring! Much to my amazement, the jeweler (who himself has this diamond out on memo from the cutter) is allowing me to keep it until Tuesday when the store reopens. Would you believe that this 4 carat LOOSE stone has followed me everywhere I have been over the last two days! It started with a trip to the appraiser then went to a few jewelry stores, followed by a night out at a nice restaurant. Sometimes it stays in an old jewelry box in my purse and other times, it gets a spot front and center at the table. Today, it even got to go to my son's little league baseball game, before making it to a few more jewelry stores and out to dinner AGAIN! Honestly, I think that I am now loosing my mind.

I have placed it in dozens of settings and set it next to stones of all sizes and colors. I have done so at jewelry stores of all kinds, from the small mom and pop jewelry stores with estate jewelry to high end jewelry stores on Beach Avenue. After all of this, I am still amazed at how much this ring sparkles and how white it faces up, even compared to stones several shades whiter on the color scale. After placing it in setting with and without halos, I am pleasantly surprised that it looks nice with a halo made of G/H micro pave stones. The two actually seems to compliment one another and the color difference seems negligible. Believe it or not, I am actually starting to like the slight warmth it has, which only seems to make it more fiery and colorful.

I honestly never thought that I would own a diamond with an "L" color, but this stone may just be "the one." I am certainly not a diamond expert, but this is my third large diamond ring purchase in 10 years, so I have certainly looked at my fair share of diamonds. I think I mentioned it in my first post, but the first one went down the kitchen sink garbage disposal and the second one was either lost or stolen back in January. My first stone was an "G" in color and my last stone was an "I" in color, and each time I have gone up in size. I have loved them all! This diamond has many pros: price, size, extremely eye clean, great cut, brilliant and sparkly. On paper, the only drawback is it's color, which I am actually starting to love. I am also thinking that once set, nobody would even be able to guess that is wasn't a near colorless stone like an "I" in color.

I have been looking endlessly online at diamonds and their prices and I guess I am just surprised that to go a little better in color, I will have to sacrifice size by almost a full carat AND go up in price by $7,000 to $10,000. I even looked online at stones of J color with medium fluorescence, only to find that these stones seem to be actually priced high. I was under the impression that fluorescence brought the value of a diamond down.

At the end of the day, I just need to know that I am getting a really good deal. I am the type of person that could have millions in the bank, but still cut coupons. The appraiser told me that, according to RAP, wholesale for the diamond is around $25,000. Abazias has it listed at $27,800 and before I knew this, I "worked" the jeweler down to $34,000. I will not pay more to purchase from the jeweler, so is $27,800 a fair price when compared to the wholesale value?

I know it is not what many would choose, but I still do love a micro pave halo setting, no matter how large the center stone is. Here are a few links to settings that I would consider IF I buy this stone......

http://www.ringenvy.com/rings/ericas-2.64ct-antique-cushion-micropave-halo

http://hellobeautiful.com/gossip-news/hellobeautifulstaff2/jennifer-hudson-wedding-details/
(but with only one halo)

http://ringspotters.com/2011/05/celebrity-engagement-ring-adriana-lima.html

Thanks again for all the opinions and posts. Believe it or not, the differing opinions are very helpful. Tomorrow I am going to brunch with some friends at a restaurant where there is a Mayors and a Tiffany's. I am going to compare this stone to what is supposed to be the best of the best in quality of stones. I think after tomorrow, I will be able to make my decision. I am so sorry for the ridiculously long post. I think, in part, this is such a tough decision for me because I am trying to pick something that I can feel proud to someday pass down to my adorable 4 year old daughter s. Maybe I should let her pick!

"I am also thinking that once set, nobody would even be able to guess that is wasn't a near colorless stone like an "I" in color."

Yes, they won't have a clue, they will just be admiring your beautiful diamond in that halo.

That first Harry Winston inspired with the thin micro pave shank is really nice.
http://www.ringenvy.com/rings/ericas-2.64ct-antique-cushion-micropave-halo

Did you see this 5c J cushion in a halo? Not much of the shank shows...LOL the coverage is so big.

5c chunky cushion J VS2 Leon mege halo

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/leon-mege-antique-cushion.140739/[/URL]

Here is a 4c warm antique OEC in an unusual double halo...oh my! How unique is this one.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/rdg-setting-4-09ct-omc-pink-diamonds-and-a-double-halo-t171273-150.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/rdg-setting-4-09ct-omc-pink-diamonds-and-a-double-halo-t171273-150.html[/URL]
Can't wait to see your ring when it is finished.

 

[Christina...]

Ariel, there is a lot of misinformation in your posts, but stated with a lot of confidence. Above are but two corrections to incorrect information you have written. I think you should do some more reading yourself before you so vociferously argue that others posting in this thread are wrong.

Very nicely stated.

Ariel, this isn't the first time you've blessed a thread with your very firm opinions, which are wrong. Please stop and spend some time to learn more. It creates friction and looks very poor to the genuine newbies and shoppers when we have to spend our time correcting you. Especially since you argue back, confident despite your ignorance.

Agreed! Ariel, opinions are always welcomed here, and they tend to lead to some very educational and worthy discussions, but by stating your OPINIONS as FACT only mucks up the board and confuses newcommers who are trying to make an educated and informed decision.

I also read the articles that you linked and failed to see that they proved your point.

I posted those articles for Andrea to read because she was looking to buy an EGL stone which almost everyone in this thread was telling her not to buy, and for those who kept telling her to look for another stone graded by GIA or AGS.

When it comes to value based on grading reports, it appears to me we are talking about 2 different markets in the diamond world...the online market vs. the retail market. I was not addressing the retail store market, as they obviously consistently overprice diamonds...they have a high overhead to keep up with. I was only addressing what I have seen online.

Unscrupulous retail jewelers will overprice their diamonds based on grading reports that are inaccurate as in the case of this 4.36c EGL stone. This unscrupulous jeweler had it overpriced by $7,000 compared to other sites on the web. So therefore the general public who does not take the time to research the diamond market can be taken advantage of. Attempts at researching can be overwhelmingly confusing for most people, that is why I keep suggesting the best diamond research site on the web, GOG. If one educates themselves there they will find out what is truly the most important aspects in purchasing a truly beautiful diamond.

They may find that an D/E/F color is really not that important if the stone is exceptionally well cut also the same goes with clarity. As a novice buyer, I thought a high color was so important until I watched the videos on GOG. And as Andrea has found by comparing her L to several I's out there, she found it wasn't important to her either...as her L is facing up so white she couldn't tell much difference. She is learning by experience that color is not really what makes the diamond the most beautiful but performance.

I have not asked Andrea to take my word for anything or my "opinion". I am encouraging her to research it for herself...color, clarity and especially cut. What I have seen and experienced, which is not opinion, but fact, is based on what I have seen in pricing diamonds online, not in the retail market. I have no doubt that many EGL stones in retail stores are over priced for their true grade.

The more I come to PS, the more I learn. I am looking to buy a very large diamond purchase in the very near future and is the reason I come into PS, so I can make the right decision for me. Just as Andrea is attempting to do. And she has gotten some sound advice to take the stone to an appraiser, she has compared it to higher graded diamonds and says it stacks up to their performance as well.

But before I purchase I will get the experts to find me the best stones for the best price and compare them all...Jonathan at GOG, Engagementringsdirect.com and this guy at this site:
www.bestdiamondsearch.com ...seem to be some good places to start.

I have posted these sites for Andrea to get help from them too, to find the best stone in her price point, but she seems to be in a hurry and probably tired of looking.

There are those in this thread that keep encouraging this girl to buy a GIA or AGS stone regardless of what she has stated in comparing the EGL stone to other higher colored EX stones graded by AGS/GIA etc. And that is what I have been addressing, as I do not necessarily agree with those opinions, based on my own personal experience.

I am just trying to help this girl get educated so that she is confident in her diamond choice if she does choose the EGL stone, which is going against the "opinions" of so many in this thread and adding to her lack of confidence..even though she knows what she is seeing. I am not the one who would presume to educate her on these things but sending her to online sites that can.

I have told my story of purchasing an EGL stone in the past and it was a beautiful stone that I got a lot of compliments on from strangers and friends. That is fact and not opinion. Maybe her stone will be the best stone for her budget and maybe not, but I was simply sharing my experience on purchasing an EGL F SI2 stone that was 1-2 color grades off, but still eye clean and a great make. She asked for opinions on her stone and I have given her my personal experience with a beautiful EGL stone and the tools I have found helpful in my diamond search as well. If that does not agree with others who think GIA grading is the only way to go to get the best stone at the best price then so be it. We can agree to disagree and in posting help those who are searching for that perfect stone for themselves or their loved ones.

While your 'trying to help this girl get educated', I thought that I would point out that the sites your sending her to for that education, do NOT carry EGL stones for a reason. Both GOG and ERD are ethical, knowledgable and well respected vendors, I'll leave it to Jonathon and Mark to explain their reasoning for not carrying EGL stones. It's also naive to believe that it's only
'unscrupulous retail jewelers' that misrepresent their diamonds. Any vendor, (BM or online) that sells EGL certed stones, is guilty of misrepresentation, if they do not inform their customers of what it is that they are purchasing.

A page back you were continuing to encourage Andrea to purchase this stone even though she now knew that it was misrepresented, so which is it? Are you encouraging her to purchase from these 'unscrupulous retailers' or are you encouraging to 'get educated'?

How do you know that they don't have stones that were originally graded by EGL and they sent to AGS or GIA to be regraded? You people are just too much and won't quit will you. It is just a report. Good grief. GOG has stones that are graded in house and by no lab, I've heard him say that on one of his videos. Does that make it a bad stone because it has no GIA report? Is it a bad stone if two different GIA graders come up with two different grades of color for the same stone? I had one GIA gemologist tell me my stone was a G and another an H.

I have encouraged Andrea to keep looking and educating herself if she was unsure, but based on her comparisons to other stones she couldn't see much difference and they were $70,000 compared to the cost of the other one which is $27,000. And so if she likes the stone and it fits her budget buy it.

Can you please answer my question about the EGLUSA Ideal Plus hearts and arrows graded round brilliants? Do you know how they compare to the GIA AGS hearts and arrows? I was just wondering if these are over priced for the quality of the stone? So do you think if I had Jonathan at GOG call in one of these "EGL" Ideal Plus Hearts and Arrows and it tested out great in house ...do you think he would not sell me one of these "EGL" stones??? Just asking your expert opinion on this. Thanks, you've been really nice to educate me in my ignorance.

Ariel, it would be presumputious of me to tell you what Jonathon would do in this case. If your interested I would suggest contacted him and asking him yourself. I do not know if GOG carries stones that originally were graded by EGL but the fact that if they had been and were resubmitted to GIA for a report would only solidify my point that they are a vendor with integrity, and sell only diamonds that have been honestly graded. I would also trust that any non certed diamond GOG would have would be fairly and adequately represented, in fact I would be more comfortable buying an uncerted stone from Jonathon than an certed EGL stone from another non PS vendor.

Their are others here better qualified than me to answer your question about HA, however I'll give it a shot. HA is a branded type diamond. There are people here who feel that they are worth the premium and others who feel that they are not. GIA does not have a HA cut grade, however if HA is inscribed on the diamond it may be listed as such on the report. I've seen this happen with Royal Aschers before, people have had the name inscribed on the girlde so that GIA would have to note it as such, otherwise it would be cut classed as a square step cut. I peresonally have not seen an EGL hearts and arrows, but I do know that even an AGS0 or GIA excellent will not always qualify as HA even though they will always show some sort of HA pattern though it may not be perfect sometimes the arrows are considered to wide or too narrow, sometimes the hearts pattern isn't perfect so it is possible to see a HA pattern in a non ideal cut diamond. some people believe that just because you can see a hearts and arrow pattern then the diamond is a HA, without having done much research I would tend to think that EGL takes these near misses and preys on these type of uneducated consumers and calls them HA then grades them as whiter and cleaner and collects a premium for them. Again, stones are sent to EGL for all sorts of reasons, not just because the cut is bad. They may recieve a well cut stone that the cutter knows will not have a great color or clarity grade from GIA and hope for and recieve a better grade from EGL, this is our point, you can never assume that the EGL grading is correct and will pay a premium by purchasing one over GIA or AGS. The stones price is based on the stones true value no matter what a lab grades it as. No lab can change a SI2 to a VS2 simply by calling it that. I wouldn't be driving an SUV if I could just call it a porsche and have it be true. I don't have a problem with anyone buying an EGL stone so long as it is represented by the seller accurately and the customer is given enough information to make an informed decision. However, this does not happen often enough.

Ariel, it's your condescending tone mixed with your misinformation that is rubbing others the wrong way. You respond to people whom have been here for years and years as though this is their first day on the boards, mentioning PS vendors that have had relationships with many of them for a very long time as if it's news to them and spewing misinformation as fact. Many of the people that have responded to you live sleep and breathe for diamonds and know more about them than even some very experienced jewelers. Many of your comments reek of ignorance and just confuses people, it's in no ones interest. I dont wish to have an arguement with you and will end my comments to you here, and I don't say this to mean, I've been called out for commenting incorrectly before as well, but I took the oppurtunity to research the topic and learn from it, I would suggest that you do the same.

 

[motherof3inct]

Andrea - Good luck with your decision. I was following your thread, but have been away for a few days. If you love the diamond and can accept the L color maybe this is the diamond for you. Last year, I purchased a 2 carat round diamond that is H color, SI1 clarity and GIA triple ex cut. The diamond is a 60/60 cut, not an ideal cut. Because of the 60/60 cut I was able to save a few thousand dollars. It doesn't display as much colorful fireworks as ideal cuts, but I was not willing to pay the extra money for it. It was an agonizing decision for me knowing I could return my diamond for a more ideal cut. Do I regret my decison? Not at all....I love, love LOVE my diamond, but I do sometimes compare it to other stones to see if I can tell the difference....and it did bother me when my father-in-law told me he could tell my diamond was not colorless....and sometimes I notice the yellow in my diamond while I work out on the amber colored floor at the gym. I think you need to figure out if you will be happy with this EGL diamond in the long run, knowing the sacrifices you made to fit your budget. I just wanted to share my experience and wish you best of luck with your decision. I know how obsessive it can be!

 

[sna77]

Andrea - Good luck with your decision. I was following your thread, but have been away for a few days. If you love the diamond and can accept the L color maybe this is the diamond for you. Last year, I purchased a 2 carat round diamond that is H color, SI1 clarity and GIA triple ex cut. The diamond is a 60/60 cut, not an ideal cut. Because of the 60/60 cut I was able to save a few thousand dollars. It doesn't display as much colorful fireworks as ideal cuts, but I was not willing to pay the extra money for it. It was an agonizing decision for me knowing I could return my diamond for a more ideal cut. Do I regret my decison? Not at all....I love, love LOVE my diamond, but I do sometimes compare it to other stones to see if I can tell the difference....and it did bother me when my father-in-law told me he could tell my diamond was not colorless....and sometimes I notice the yellow in my diamond while I work out on the amber colored floor at the gym. I think you need to figure out if you will be happy with this EGL diamond in the long run, knowing the sacrifices you made to fit your budget. I just wanted to share my experience and wish you best of luck with your decision. I know how obsessive it can be!

I get that there is something for everyone, but I just don't see the point of buying something yellow that's supposed to be white, just because it's really big. Maybe that is just a dumb male opinion, but I always think its weird when I see large yellowish diamonds on women... Again, this is a just a dumb guy's opinion

 

[Christina...]

Andrea - Good luck with your decision. I was following your thread, but have been away for a few days. If you love the diamond and can accept the L color maybe this is the diamond for you. Last year, I purchased a 2 carat round diamond that is H color, SI1 clarity and GIA triple ex cut. The diamond is a 60/60 cut, not an ideal cut. Because of the 60/60 cut I was able to save a few thousand dollars. It doesn't display as much colorful fireworks as ideal cuts, but I was not willing to pay the extra money for it. It was an agonizing decision for me knowing I could return my diamond for a more ideal cut. Do I regret my decison? Not at all....I love, love LOVE my diamond, but I do sometimes compare it to other stones to see if I can tell the difference....and it did bother me when my father-in-law told me he could tell my diamond was not colorless....and sometimes I notice the yellow in my diamond while I work out on the amber colored floor at the gym. I think you need to figure out if you will be happy with this EGL diamond in the long run, knowing the sacrifices you made to fit your budget. I just wanted to share my experience and wish you best of luck with your decision. I know how obsessive it can be!

mother of 3inct: It sounds like you have a very beautiful diamond. H is the sweet spot for many people as far as color and value go, so long as you are not extremely color sensitive most people can not tell the difference between an H and F unless they are unset, upside and against a white background. Also I wanted to point out that some people prefer 60/60 dimaonds because they tend to face up larger and they can still fall within TIC range on the HCA. The fact that you see yellow in your stone while working out on the amber colored floor of your gym is indicative of the great cut of your stone and that it is reflecting light from it's surroundings through the diamond and back to your eye. You can often tell what color shirt a person is wearing when they photograph diamonds because the color is reflected off the stone, or sometimes you can see black in the stone which is simply a reflection of the camera itself. I would never feel offended by an observation made by FIL about my diamond, he knows nothing about them, however when he offers an opinion about the strange sound my car is making I listen!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am quite certain that GOG does not sell ANY well cut stones that are ungraded. They may have some stones that were trade-ins and/or low priced to sell in the store that just aren't worth having graded, but their nice quality stones will always be graded unless they are too small (melee).

Andrea, where are pictures of this ring????

One more thing. Were the two diamonds that you lost insured? Have you checked to be sure you can get insurance on the new stone? I would honestly think that you may have difficulty getting insurance or end up with very high premiums if you have made 2 claims already. What made me think about it was all the places you have been taking this presumably uninsured diamond over the weekend!

 

[Amys Bling]

ultimately, what matters is that you love the stone and your new ring.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

ultimately, what matters is that you love the stone and your new ring.

That is exactly right!

I hope you post some pictures for us, Andrea!

 

[Gypsy]

I get that there is something for everyone, but I just don't see the point of buying something yellow that's supposed to be white, just because it's really big. Maybe that is just a dumb male opinion, but I always think its weird when I see large yellowish diamonds on women... Again, this is a just a dumb guy's opinion

Sna, if diamonds were supposed to be only white, then they would come in only white. But they come in yellow, orange, pink, brown, blue, red, white, green....

There's something for everyone. Diamonds are a luxury item and their beauty really is in the eye of the beholder especially in reference to COLOR. It's a very personal thing. You'll notice that no one else has said anything that judges the L color, only the fact that the grading report was off. That's because we really do make an effort to NOT be judgmental about color. The only comments you will hear with reference to color is: "I personally don't care for X color in an engagement ring... in a step cut... in a halo with G diamonds " but the comments are very much qualified to set of circumstances AND the clarity that it's a personal preference. If you had said, "I think a 4 carat L diamond would be too tinted for me personally" that would be a different matter, do you see what I mean?

 

[distracts]

I get that there is something for everyone, but I just don't see the point of buying something yellow that's supposed to be white, just because it's really big. Maybe that is just a dumb male opinion, but I always think its weird when I see large yellowish diamonds on women... Again, this is a just a dumb guy's opinion

Well... I used to think I hated diamonds as anything but sidestones, until I'd been on PS a while and discovered L-M-N colored diamonds. Having now seen them in person... I love them so much more than the white ones. If I'd known this when we were e-ring shopping, I might have gotten an L-M-N diamond rather than a sapphire (which I got because I didn't want a diamond but the fiance insisted on a ring). I'm only slowly coming around to whiter diamonds. I guess they can be okay sometimes... they're just so boring and colorless.

So Andrea, from this you can tell that for me the color of the diamond would not be an issue... but is it to you? It sounded like you loved it before the appraiser graded it - do you still love it? If you love it and think you won't have any doubts after you buy it, then get it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Regarding price, Andrea, I would want to negotiate the stone down to the price you found online. You have done your due dilligence. Good for you! Now, stay on track and work on price to be fair. Even if you get it under $30 it could be ok since B&M stores do have higher overhead and you have used their services which may warrant a slightly higher price than online.

 

[motherof3inct]

Christina - Thanks for your comments. Even though I know I made the right decision with my diamond, it is always nice to hear confirmation. I am overly sensitive to my FIL even if he knows little about diamonds....but that's for a totally different forum!

I think the point I was trying to make to Andrea is that if she has hesitations about this diamond, and she does decide to purchase it, the uncertaintly may not go away. Every time she sees a tinge of yellow, it may bother her. I hope she is happy with whatever decision she makes.

I personally have never seen a really yellow diamond (or maybe I'm just not sensitive to it), but I have seen cloudy diamonds which I would steer away from.