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3cts - GemScan and GIA reports don't match

Newton

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
4
Hello,

I've been shopping for a diamond. I picked a local jeweler and asked him to find me a nice 3cts diamond in the K/SI1 range. He brought one in (see GemScan report). My girlfriend saw the diamond and loves it (it's eye clean, and a nice color to her). The jeweler is asking $30,000 for it.

To be careful, I asked that they regrade it with GIA. They agreed, and I got this report back (attached).

PriceScope lists 5 diamonds that seem similar for $22,000.

Should I be concerned about the "cavity" note on the GIA report?
Is my diamond somehow worth more than the ones I found on PriceScope?
Am I missing something?
Any advice?

Thanks!
Great site

3cStoneCertificate.jpg

GIA 3.05 ct.jpg
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,763
It's VERY wise that you had this re-graded. Gemscan is NOT a reputable lab at all, and often is called GemScaM. What GIA said sounds about like what you really are getting, and if you can get the same specs for 22k vs 30k I'd walk away and find another vendor.
 

Newton

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
4
One thing though: I notice from GIA's plot that this seems like a very very clean SI1. There's almost nothing there.

In person, my girlfriend said that the stone did not look yellow, and that she could see no blemishes at all. So the stone might be an "almost L, almost VS2" stone.

If I go on PriceScope and look at L / VS2 stones, the price is about $29,000 to $33,000. In that case, my local jeweler wouldn't be too far off on prices...

Is this a reasonable way of looking at it? What about this "cavity"? Could this cause the stone to crack?
 

Newton

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
4
One funny thing I noticed: GemScan listed the stone as "v small cullet" and "very good symmetry", but GIA was more generous, listing it as "no cullet", and "excellent" symmetry.

GIA also said it's a little bigger :) 9.14 x 9.24 x 5.79 GemScan vs 9.15 x 9.24 x 5.80 GIA
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
I could be wrong, but if this stone was almost an L, the report would probably say "L/M".

I have a GIA-graded "O/P" stone, which is why I'm guessing they would have done that with your stone. (EDIT: The cert says "O to P range". Now I'm wondering if that's something they do for lower colored stones. Any experts around????)

I think you shouldn't try to justify paying more for this stone than what it is worth. What are other M SI1 stones selling for? THAT is what you should use as a comparison.

The plot of my SI1 looks extremely clean as well. That doesn't mean it isn't an SI1. It is.

I would offer only what a GIA M SI1 is worth in this carat weight, and wouldn't pay any more. You can always find another round, it's not like this is a difficult cut to find or anything.
 

SB621

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
7,863
Newton|1317165083|3027346 said:
GIA also said it's a little bigger :) 9.14 x 9.24 x 5.79 GemScan vs 9.15 x 9.24 x 5.80 GIA
You're talking about .01mm difference which is really not that surprizing. Sometimes when labs grade stones there might be a slight difference like that. I wouldn't let that factor into your descision.

Personally for me, I would continue looking for another diamond. I don't see pay 30k for something that you can get cheaper and be just as eye clean etc (everything you want). Sorry I'm not an expert so I can't comment on the cavity.
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,763
Haven|1317165261|3027348 said:
I would offer only what a GIA M SI1 is worth in this carat weight, and wouldn't pay any more. You can always find another round, it's not like this is a difficult cut to find or anything.
^THIS.^

It sounds like you want it whether we explain the issues or not, because your girlfriend likes it.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,664
I don't think GIA assigns L/M color grade - it is one or the other. It could be a high M color but they still assign it an M color grade.

As for the inclusions, if you can't see them without a loupe, that's a good thing. That does not mean though that it is almost VS2. Those inclusions make the clarity grade but because they are not directly under the table you may not be able to see them in normal viewing.

I would only compare prices to an M, SI stone. That's the GIA grade that has been assigned and the grade that you should be paying for. Comparing anything else would be like apples to oranges. You don't need to justify what it is or think that the grade should be more lenient. It is what it is and that is the way the stone would be traded and sold.

If you are unsure about the stone, have it independently appraised. The appraiser can also tell you if you paid an appropriate price for the stone. However, the jeweler got you a K color stone and probably charged you for a K color stone. The truth is that it is two color grades higher than what it was represented to be when graded by a reputable lab. Since you asked for the stone to be GIA graded - which was a very wise move - money should not have been exchanged until you had a better grading report.

The stone is what some would consider a steep, deep stone meaning that there could be significant light leakage. If it were me, I would consider returning it and starting again.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=99802564&flag=ps This is one diamond I found that is somewhat bigger than your stone. It has faint fluro which could impact price so between the size difference and the fluro difference, you'd still probably be at around 22k. Paying 30k for this stone would definitely be overpaying.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,399
Newton|1317165083|3027346 said:
One funny thing I noticed: GemScan listed the stone as "v small cullet" and "very good symmetry", but GIA was more generous, listing it as "no cullet", and "excellent" symmetry.

GIA also said it's a little bigger :) 9.14 x 9.24 x 5.79 GemScan vs 9.15 x 9.24 x 5.80 GIA
but according to GIA this is not a K color ideal cut stone.you can buy a better cut stone for $30k.. ;))
 

Newton

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
4
ame|1317166105|3027361 said:
It sounds like you want it whether we explain the issues or not, because your girlfriend likes it.
No. But I'm tempted because it's supposedly hard to find a really eye-clean Si1 stone in this size (3 carats). Also, even though the cut is only "very good", my girlfriend does like the look, which apparently is not guaranteed even if I get a GIA/excellent.

So if I re-start the search I could be looking at many more weeks of delay, *and* if I'm forced to go mail order I might be forced to go to VS2 to that I can almost guarantee the stone be eye-clean when buying long distance.

So in the end, I'm wondering if I would be saving anything.

I'm disappointed in this result, and I'm not sure what to do...

At least people searching in the future now know the differences between GemScan and GIA reports. I hope this helps others...
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
21,152
HI:

Am I blind or do the dimensions not match? #'s reversed? I also did a search and a GIA XXX K SI1 is not 22K. Good cut perhaps, but not premium or ideal.

Couldn't see the document clearly--and post note saw GIA graded color am M. Didn't do search for that.

cheers--Sharon
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,101
Haven - K, L, M, N, then O/P, Q/R... to Y/Z - GIA & AGSL anyway


Ditto everything MGR said about the price.


Regarding size - I find this to be a very odd discrepancy. The labs should most definitely have equipment sufficient to measure to the 0.01mm accurately and precisely, so what's going on? I assume both labs will measure mechanically - as in, with calipers, not scan? So maybe the stone is a tiny bit out of round and GIA chose a different axis for the diametre...? Which still leaves the depth measurement off..


Newton - no, cavity is not a problem - GIA lists inclusions in order of most to least "severe" under a 10x loupe, so the feathers are the grade-making inclusions, and neither inclusion is creating problems w/ overly thin girdle, etc. More on clarity grading here

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=5131911574&weight=3.05

Overall cut grade reduced b/c of avg girdle thickness around the stone - 63-15.5-43.5~4%, you can play w/ the GIA Facetware programme here, see the help at the bottom for difference btwn girdle max/min and "thickness" avg


I don't think you should dismiss it out of hand - we're going blind from numbers that are averaged around eight sections of diamond, then rounded, and we have no idea what sorts of ranges have gone into those rounded averages, what the stone's optical symmetry is like... YOU have the ability to see the stone and decide if your eyes like what they see. Provided of course that you are not paying for a reputably graded K VS2 and obtaining an M SI1.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,689
Hi,

If you want the stone, at least go back to the vendor and renegotiate the price. Your jeweler should be willing to do that if you show him the GIA report.
Try your negotiating skills.

Annette
 
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