shape
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color
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3ct oval D VS1 vs G IF?

Micina

Rough_Rock
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Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
Hello, We have been researching anniversary ring for several months. Finally identified two options around our budget. D VS1 and G IF (both GIA) which have same face up size, excellent polish and brilliance w/ faint fluorescence. Price difference is $5k. It’s always good to save money and G is completely within our budget but...don’t want to regret our choice for 3ct by saving $5k if we can see the difference with naked eye. We have beautiful 0.8ct D engagement ring and we love the icy white of her. As it’s online store and difficult to compare side-by-side, it would be great to have professional/experienced opinion before our decision.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,195
You need to pick the one that has the best light return (best faceting). D or G should both be fairly white for the majority of people but
since you are used to a D it might be best to stay with a higher color. Ovals will tend to show more color in the places where they are not
returning light that well.

Like I said though, the color would not be my determining factor. The faceting pattern and light return would be my major
determining factor.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,217
I haven't seen light performance mentioned. (Edited to add, except for tyty333's post which was posted while I wrote this post.)
IMO the uniquely beautiful light performance that only diamond can deliver is the main reason I'm willing to pay big bucks for it.
But even real diamond can only put on that light show if, and only if, it is cut to achieve it.

Unfortunately few diamonds are cut for light performance.
Instead, most diamonds are cut to maximize the carat weight.
Why?
Every customer understands carat weight, but few understand that good light performance depends on the cut, not the clarity or color.

Even a flawless D color diamond can look dull and lifeless if it is not cut for good light performance.
Unfortunately cutting for light performance "wastes" more diamond material, IOW carat weight.
Someone correct me if I'm not up to date, but I believe the two most reputable US gem labs, GIA and AGS, still do not grade the light performance of ovals.

So, how does one find a well cut oval?
By viewing properly taken ASET scope and/or an Idealscope images.
If your vendor/jeweler does not provide these I'd buy the scopes, learn to use them and judge the light performance myself in person.
In the past I've "temporarily" bought a few diamonds (from vendors with good return polices) checked them side by side in my home.
I kept the best and returned the rest.
I did have to pay for return shipping, a small price to pay to get what I felt was the best performing diamond.

I would not buy an oval without seeing and understanding these images.
To me cut is king, which has become somewhat of a common saying here on Pricescope.



 
Last edited:

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,014
You need to pick the one that has the best light return (best faceting). D or G should both be fairly white for the majority of people but
since you are used to a D it might be best to stay with a higher color. Ovals will tend to show more color in the places where they are not
returning light that well.

Like I said though, the color would not be my determining factor. The faceting pattern and light return would be my major
determining factor.

This is an important point. I feel the same, light performance/faceting would be my #1 deciding factor. I guess I was assuming they were equal, in which case I was saying you might want to stick with a high color, especially given the size increase. But yes, definitely light performance is #1 for me as well.
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
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Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
I haven't seen light performance mentioned. (Edited to add, except for tyty333's post which was posted while I wrote this post.)
IMO the uniquely beautiful light performance that only diamond can deliver is the main reason I'm willing to pay big bucks for it.
But even real diamond can only put on that light show if, and only if, it is cut to achieve it.

Unfortunately few diamonds are cut for light performance.
Instead, most diamonds are cut to maximize the carat weight.
Why?
Every customer understands carat weight, but few understand that good light performance depends on the cut, not the clarity or color.

Even a flawless D color diamond can look dull and lifeless if it is not cut for good light performance.
Unfortunately cutting for light performance "wastes" more diamond material, IOW carat weight.
Someone correct me if I'm not up to date, but I believe the two most reputable US gem labs, GIA and AGS, still do not grade the light performance of ovals.

So, how does one find a well cut oval?
By viewing properly taken ASET scope and/or an Idealscope images.
If your vendor/jeweler does not provide these I'd buy the scopes, learn to use them and judge the light performance myself in person.
In the past I've "temporarily" bought a few diamonds (from vendors with good return polices) checked them side by side in my home.
I kept the best and returned the rest.
I did have to pay for return shipping, a small price to pay to get what I felt was the best performing diamond.

I would not buy an oval without seeing and understanding these images.
To me cut is king, which has become somewhat of a common saying here on Pricescope.




This is great advice, thank you! I asked
I haven't seen light performance mentioned. (Edited to add, except for tyty333's post which was posted while I wrote this post.)
IMO the uniquely beautiful light performance that only diamond can deliver is the main reason I'm willing to pay big bucks for it.
But even real diamond can only put on that light show if, and only if, it is cut to achieve it.

Unfortunately few diamonds are cut for light performance.
Instead, most diamonds are cut to maximize the carat weight.
Why?
Every customer understands carat weight, but few understand that good light performance depends on the cut, not the clarity or color.

Even a flawless D color diamond can look dull and lifeless if it is not cut for good light performance.
Unfortunately cutting for light performance "wastes" more diamond material, IOW carat weight.
Someone correct me if I'm not up to date, but I believe the two most reputable US gem labs, GIA and AGS, still do not grade the light performance of ovals.

So, how does one find a well cut oval?
By viewing properly taken ASET scope and/or an Idealscope images.
If your vendor/jeweler does not provide these I'd buy the scopes, learn to use them and judge the light performance myself in person.
In the past I've "temporarily" bought a few diamonds (from vendors with good return polices) checked them side by side in my home.
I kept the best and returned the rest.
I did have to pay for return shipping, a small price to pay to get what I felt was the best performing diamond.

I would not buy an oval without seeing and understanding these images.
To me cut is king, which has become somewhat of a common saying here on Pricescope.




Great advice, thank you. I asked ASET however they doesn’t have it. The advisor said that D is 4 arrow center instead G is 8 arrow center. Both are perfectly set for the fire and sparkle to be maximized. But seems like G is slightly better. Other than checking video, are there any good way to measure light performance from figures on GIA report?
 

munchee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
617
If both cuts have similar performance, for color definitely D, I’m used with high color, when I got a new ring I got H color which was said to be high H and very close to G. And comparing to 2 Gs I have at home, its really looks more of a G.
And the color starts bothering me in some lighting. I want to get at least F color now, but the jeweler said I need to go custom cut which then doesn’t have upgrade policy. So if you’re used with high color and you can see the difference, I think in the long run, you’ll appreciate D more.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,217
This is great advice, thank you! I asked


Great advice, thank you. I asked ASET however they doesn’t have it. The advisor said that D is 4 arrow center instead G is 8 arrow center. Both are perfectly set for the fire and sparkle to be maximized. But seems like G is slightly better. Other than checking video, are there any good way to measure light performance from figures on GIA report?

ov.png


Sorry but nothing on any GIA report for an oval shaped diamond tells you anything about how good the light performance is.
Polish and symmetry grades address other things about the cut, not the light performance.

I like to think of polish and symmetry as how well the cooks were able to follow the recipe, the recipe itself determines how good the light performance can be.

IMO the worst way to judge anything about a diamond, especially light performance, is by taking the word of the seller.
Conflict of interest much?

Your best defense is increasing your knowledge, so it's good you came here to Pricescope.
Please take your time, learn lots, and keep an open mind.
I'm sure many jewelers hate this place because they lose control of their customers.
The days of jewelers getting away with saying anything to make a sale are threatened by PS.

I'd buy an ASET scope and/or Idealscope, learn how to use it because it's not obvious, then and take it to the jeweler.
If they get all upset I'd walk out.

Avoid ovals with bowties, which are easy to judge with your own eyes.
Just get them away from those issue-concealing jewelry store lights.
I'd ask the salesperson if they'd carry to diamond over to a window.

Screen Shot 2021-06-04 at 5.06.29 PM.png
 
Last edited:

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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18,014
Do you have videos you can share with us?
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
Do you have videos you can share with us?
Unfortunately I don’t know how to post video so will attached some angle of D. Hope you can give me some guidance..,
A6FB31F8-9BB8-48A6-BE85-A10825B59604.jpeg
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,014
Unfortunately I don’t know how to post video so will attached some angle of D. Hope you can give me some guidance..,
A6FB31F8-9BB8-48A6-BE85-A10825B59604.jpeg

If it's a video from a website then post the link (though reserve stones first). If it's not from a website then upload to YouTube or other website then post the link
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,131
I have a super ideal G and I swear sometimes I see the tint and it drives me crazy. Before the G I’ve always been an F or higher color diamond person.

So if you are already used to a D, I think it makes sense to go with D/VS vs G/IF. Not to mention that VS is anyway eye clean.
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
I have a super ideal G and I swear sometimes I see the tint and it drives me crazy. Before the G I’ve always been an F or higher color diamond person.

So if you are already used to a D, I think it makes sense to go with D/VS vs G/IF. Not to mention that VS is anyway eye clean.

Never thought that you can see the tint by naked eye for VS... Based on several advices, I start to consider that maybe better to visit jeweler which has variety of 3ct to compare light performance, color and tint to understand which one I care most with that size of face up.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,131
Never thought that you can see the tint by naked eye for VS... Based on several advices, I start to consider that maybe better to visit jeweler which has variety of 3ct to compare light performance, color and tint to understand which one I care most with that size of face up.

Tint in G color, not the clarity (VS).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
I would never put color first as a couple of others have said. I'd choose the one with the best cut. We can get a better idea if you post magnified pictures and videos of both stones. The pictures of the D look pretty good but those aren't the best pictures. If the stones are on hold for you, you can just post the links to the vendor videos.
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
I would never put color first as a couple of others have said. I'd choose the one with the best cut. We can get a better idea if you post magnified pictures and videos of both stones. The pictures of the D look pretty good but those aren't the best pictures. If the stones are on hold for you, you can just post the links to the vendor videos.

Thank you for your help. As I found E instead of G IF, it would be highly appreciated if you can check and give me professional opinion on D VS1 and E VS1.
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
I haven't seen light performance mentioned. (Edited to add, except for tyty333's post which was posted while I wrote this post.)
IMO the uniquely beautiful light performance that only diamond can deliver is the main reason I'm willing to pay big bucks for it.
But even real diamond can only put on that light show if, and only if, it is cut to achieve it.

Unfortunately few diamonds are cut for light performance.
Instead, most diamonds are cut to maximize the carat weight.
Why?
Every customer understands carat weight, but few understand that good light performance depends on the cut, not the clarity or color.

Even a flawless D color diamond can look dull and lifeless if it is not cut for good light performance.
Unfortunately cutting for light performance "wastes" more diamond material, IOW carat weight.
Someone correct me if I'm not up to date, but I believe the two most reputable US gem labs, GIA and AGS, still do not grade the light performance of ovals.

So, how does one find a well cut oval?
By viewing properly taken ASET scope and/or an Idealscope images.
If your vendor/jeweler does not provide these I'd buy the scopes, learn to use them and judge the light performance myself in person.
In the past I've "temporarily" bought a few diamonds (from vendors with good return polices) checked them side by side in my home.
I kept the best and returned the rest.
I did have to pay for return shipping, a small price to pay to get what I felt was the best performing diamond.

I would not buy an oval without seeing and understanding these images.
To me cut is king, which has become somewhat of a common saying here on Pricescope.





Is that possible to ask your option on video? As I found E instead of G IF, it would be highly appreciated if you can check and give me professional opinion on D VS1 and E VS1.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,131
As it’s online store and difficult to compare side-by-side, it would be great to have professional/experienced opinion before our decision.

Ah for some reason I thought you had seen them in real life. Ok if virtual and oval to boot I agree the cut is really important. But color matters too if you are used to icy white diamonds, so personally I’ll compromise on clarity if needed. Hopefully someone who’s great at interpreting online videos can chime in soon
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,195
@Micina What you want to see as the stone rotates is more nice facets come into view. "Nice" facets are facets that are flashing on/off like
mirrors. They are well defined (you can see the outline of the facets). You want to reduce the amount of "mushy" areas. Mushy areas look
gray and not well defined.

This snip was taken from your E/Vs1 stone (the one you provide the link for)
The red areas have nice facets. The black outlined areas are mushy. Most ovals do have mushy areas...but you want to minimize it as much
as possible.
snip.png

As the stone rotates you want to see more "Nice" facets popping up where the red lines are
snip.png


I like the faceting pattern/light return on this stone
Pretty decent straight on view...lots of nice facets reflecting light. It does have some "mushy" areas straight on but as the stone turns those
don't stay mushy. They become more defined and start to return light.
snip.png

See how this stone has less mush as the stone turns (in the red area)
snip1.png

So, that's a quick and dirty on what to look for as far as nice facets and light return in ovals. Hopefully, now, you can take a second look at
the stones you are considering. With respect to the D and E stones you linked, I actually like the 4 main better. It looks like it has less mush
than the E. They both have pretty strong facets through the center so its a matter of minimizing the mush and deciding what faceting pattern
you like better (4 or 8 ).
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,014
@Micina What you want to see as the stone rotates is more nice facets come into view. "Nice" facets are facets that are flashing on/off like
mirrors. They are well defined (you can see the outline of the facets). You want to reduce the amount of "mushy" areas. Mushy areas look
gray and not well defined.

This snip was taken from your E/Vs1 stone (the one you provide the link for)
The red areas have nice facets. The black outlined areas are mushy. Most ovals do have mushy areas...but you want to minimize it as much
as possible.
snip.png

As the stone rotates you want to see more "Nice" facets popping up where the red lines are
snip.png


I like the faceting pattern/light return on this stone
Pretty decent straight on view...lots of nice facets reflecting light. It does have some "mushy" areas straight on but as the stone turns those
don't stay mushy. They become more defined and start to return light.
snip.png

See how this stone has less mush as the stone turns (in the red area)
snip1.png

So, that's a quick and dirty on what to look for as far as nice facets and light return in ovals. Hopefully, now, you can take a second look at
the stones you are considering. With respect to the D and E stones you linked, I actually like the 4 main better. It looks like it has less mush
than the E. They both have pretty strong facets through the center so its a matter of minimizing the mush and deciding what faceting pattern
you like better (4 or 8 ).

Totally agree. I don't like the E due to mush. I prefer the D. But I LOVE the G posted above and would buy in a heartbeat if I were you
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
@Micina What you want to see as the stone rotates is more nice facets come into view. "Nice" facets are facets that are flashing on/off like
mirrors. They are well defined (you can see the outline of the facets). You want to reduce the amount of "mushy" areas. Mushy areas look
gray and not well defined.

This snip was taken from your E/Vs1 stone (the one you provide the link for)
The red areas have nice facets. The black outlined areas are mushy. Most ovals do have mushy areas...but you want to minimize it as much
as possible.
snip.png

As the stone rotates you want to see more "Nice" facets popping up where the red lines are
snip.png


I like the faceting pattern/light return on this stone
Pretty decent straight on view...lots of nice facets reflecting light. It does have some "mushy" areas straight on but as the stone turns those
don't stay mushy. They become more defined and start to return light.
snip.png

See how this stone has less mush as the stone turns (in the red area)
snip1.png

So, that's a quick and dirty on what to look for as far as nice facets and light return in ovals. Hopefully, now, you can take a second look at
the stones you are considering. With respect to the D and E stones you linked, I actually like the 4 main better. It looks like it has less mush
than the E. They both have pretty strong facets through the center so its a matter of minimizing the mush and deciding what faceting pattern
you like better (4 or 8 ).

Incredible advice! This is the information I was looking for. Unfortunately I tried different rep/advisor on JA however it wasn’t technical and not convinced me.

I drop off E option. Seems like the one you posted (G IF) is best choice. As it has great light return and less mush, do you think that cover “icy white” factor?

Or budget around 55k, are there any recommendations with D color (to stay with icy)
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
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Messages
95
Totally agree. I don't like the E due to mush. I prefer the D. But I LOVE the G posted above and would buy in a heartbeat if I were you

Do you think there isn’t No regret to give up “icy white” because G has great light performance?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
The E has a flat crown. If you look at the D compared to the E, you can see that the D is more attractive because it has a higher crown. I also don't like the proportions of the D. It is a little too long. I agree with @tyty333. The G is the best of these three stones. Decent cut, nice crown, small table, nice ratio at 1.38. I honestly don't think you can find one with better cut in a non-specialty cut stone. Whether or not you'd like the color, I cannot know. I personally would be fine with a G if it was well cut.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,014
Do you think there isn’t No regret to give up “icy white” because G has great light performance?

I can't speak to your color preferences, since it's such an individual thing. To my eyes, G is plenty white, and cut would be more important for me than color by a long shot.
 

Micina

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
95
The E has a flat crown. If you look at the D compared to the E, you can see that the D is more attractive because it has a higher crown. I also don't like the proportions of the D. It is a little too long. I agree with @tyty333. The G is the best of these three stones. Decent cut, nice crown, small table, nice ratio at 1.38. I honestly don't think you can find one with better cut in a non-specialty cut stone. Whether or not you'd like the color, I cannot know. I personally would be fine with a G if it was well cut.
Finally got the other G IF image which originally talking about. Unfortunately it’s on hold so you can’t see website video. By comparing the one @tyty333 recommended, which one would be better for light performance? According to advisor, the one with below pictures has medium girdle therefore no light leakages because table and depth rage are okay. Now I understood that cut and light performance is key factor than color, the question is which “G IF” is the one?? 85AFA9B8-C993-4204-B490-4EBBACD30C5F.jpeg
 

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Micina

Rough_Rock
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Messages
95
Totally agree. I don't like the E due to mush. I prefer the D. But I LOVE the G posted above and would buy in a heartbeat if I were you
I can't speak to your color preferences, since it's such an individual thing. To my eyes, G is plenty white, and cut would be more important for me than color by a long shot.

Thank you! I respect and follow your advices. Just one thing, I got G IF image( no video due to ‘on hold’). I would be great to hear your opinion whether I should stick current one or new G IF on above link. Thanks!

 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I am confused. Arent there only 3 potential options (D, E, G)? I would choose the G that @tyty333 posted.
 
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