2ct eye-clean "white" GIA round diamond for $20k?

[jimyhoff]

Hello everyone

I've spent the last two nights reading and reading and reading this forum. I'm looking for a diamond, 2ct or larger, that appears "white" to me and is eye-clean. $20k seems to be a reasonable round number. I was at a de beers store over the weekend and "White" to me looks like H or better. Is it unreasonable to find an H diamond that's eye-clean for $20k or less? I've done the pricescope search, and they're there, but I don't know how to choose the best from an endless number of diamonds.

One odd thing is that some "excellent" cuts have HCA scores that are worse than "very good" cuts. I don't understand that.

Does anyone have any suggestions that match my criteria? Thanks in advance.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Don't even look at anything but GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal. I'll take a quick look.

 

[jimyhoff]

Thoughts on this one?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-238408

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Didn't see any at the vendors who have idealscope images posted, but you can get close to $20k with H SI1 if you can find an eyeclean one. James Allen has some possibilities. You can choose three and they will send you idealscope images if you ask. Put them on hold while you wait on the images. I think they have a small pricescope discount and probably a wire discount, too.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267576

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.06-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-233562

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.04-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267052

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thoughts on this one?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-238408

I personally can't tolerate a big feather (crack) like that close to the edge (or anywhere in a stone, for that matter).

 

[jimyhoff]

Thoughts on this one?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-238408

I personally can't tolerate a big feather (crack) like that close to the edge (or anywhere in a stone, for that matter).

You say crack, is there a risk the diamond could break? I really thought I might have found a hidden bargain here as the feather seems to blend with the facets and could maybe be hidden under a prong. Besides the feather it looks extremely clean.

Do you think that feather would be eye-visible?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It might not be eye visible, but it is not a bargain. It is priced as an SI2 with a pretty significant inclusion. I really can't speak to durability and maybe a gemologist will see the question, but we do unfortunately sometimes hit rings on things, and I wouldn't like a big feather like that, personally. I'd stick with SI1 for an engagement ring.

 

[jimyhoff]

It might not be eye visible, but it is not a bargain. It is priced as an SI2 with a pretty significant inclusion. I really can't speak to durability and maybe a gemologist will see the question, but we do unfortunately sometimes hit rings on things, and I wouldn't like a big feather like that, personally. I'd stick with SI1 for an engagement ring.

Oh shoot, I was hoping you were going to say that's a bargain at $17,500. It took me a second to even see the feather at first, even under the magnification of the website. I was more worried about pepper looking inclusions that most SI1's have.

 

[jimyhoff]

I do like the three you posted as well. I had actually called them about the true hearts diamond and their pricescope discount was almost nothing on that one. I hate to question given your history on this website, but it's really not worth saving $4,000 to get the SI2 and try to hide the feather?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I do like the three you posted as well. I had actually called them about the true hearts diamond and their pricescope discount was almost nothing on that one. I hate to question given your history on this website, but it's really not worth saving $4,000 to get the SI2 and try to hide the feather?

That is kind of you to say, but honestly that is just my personal preference to balance color and clarity with size. Hopefully she will wear the ring 50+ years, and I'd just want the quality overall to be good. I think once the inclusion is discovered, it might bother some people (like it did me with my original ring!). I only buy VS clarity diamonds for that reason. But I do understand wanting to gain size and think SI1 is a good place to be with H color. There are people here with very well cut diamonds that are SI2, but the only SI2 I would consider recommending would be twining wisps if they were totally eyeclean. Actually, I'd go to I SI1 before I'd buy an H SI2 for myself.

Check on the pricing of the others. Maybe they do a better discount with the ones that are not True Hearts. And there are probably others who might say to buy the stone with the feather. I just can't recommend that one myself!

 

[jimyhoff]

I will call on those tomorrow, thanks for doing a search.

My thought on the diamond with the feather was absent that flaw it looks like a VS diamond. I may be way off base but I don't see any peppery spots in it and the table looks perfect. Without having it in my hand though I just don't have any idea how noticeable that feather would be.

 

[jimyhoff]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.06-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-233562 $21,450

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.04-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267052 $21,500

Prices on these two.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.06-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-233562 $21,450

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.04-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267052 $21,500

Prices on these two.

Wow, did you tell them you are a PS member? I really expected more of a discount than that.

 

[liaerfbv]

I will call on those tomorrow, thanks for doing a search.

My thought on the diamond with the feather was absent that flaw it looks like a VS diamond. I may be way off base but I don't see any peppery spots in it and the table looks perfect. Without having it in my hand though I just don't have any idea how noticeable that feather would be.

I think the point is more toward the durability of the stone with a feather. Although it may be eye clean, there's a chance she could hit her hand on something and crack the stone in half. I had a RHR with a small .30 bezeled stone - I got an amazing price on it on ebay and it was an SI2 and I though, well, it's a deal so I'll gamble on it. I wore it for about 6 months, hit my hand on my car door and the stone cracked right down the feather. While I was sad -- that's nothing to how I'd imagine I'd feel if my e-ring cracked. Just food for thought.

 

[jimyhoff]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.06-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-233562 $21,450

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.04-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267052 $21,500

Prices on these two.

Wow, did you tell them you are a PS member? I really expected more of a discount than that.

I asked about the pricescope discount and that's all they offered. Maybe I should try again?

 

[jimyhoff]

I will call on those tomorrow, thanks for doing a search.

My thought on the diamond with the feather was absent that flaw it looks like a VS diamond. I may be way off base but I don't see any peppery spots in it and the table looks perfect. Without having it in my hand though I just don't have any idea how noticeable that feather would be.

I think the point is more toward the durability of the stone with a feather. Although it may be eye clean, there's a chance she could hit her hand on something and crack the stone in half. I had a RHR with a small .30 bezeled stone - I got an amazing price on it on ebay and it was an SI2 and I though, well, it's a deal so I'll gamble on it. I wore it for about 6 months, hit my hand on my car door and the stone cracked right down the feather. While I was sad -- that's nothing to how I'd imagine I'd feel if my e-ring cracked. Just food for thought.

I wondered about that too but everything I've read says that a feather isn't a durability issue.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk

 

[liaerfbv]

I wondered about that too but everything I've read says that a feather isn't a durability issue.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk

It depends on the placement, relation to the girdle, other defects in the stone, etc. I wouldn't take the chance in an e-ring I wanted to keep forever, but you have to buy what you feel comfortable with.

 

[Laila619]

I wondered about that too but everything I've read says that a feather isn't a durability issue.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/diamond_feather_inclusions_durability_risk

It depends on the placement, relation to the girdle, other defects in the stone, etc. I wouldn't take the chance in an e-ring I wanted to keep forever, but you have to buy what you feel comfortable with.

Ditto. Feathers in SI2 stones are a dealbreaker for me.

I don't have any problem with SI2, but not where the feather is the grade-setting inclusion. You can find better SI2s. Or would you consider going down to I color? I is still very white, esp. if it has blue fluor.

 

[jimyhoff]

So a feather (which I think blends with the facets) is worst than inclusions that look like specs of dirt? I would have thought just the opposite? The other SI2's I've seen and most SI1's look specked with dirt and this one looks clean other than the feather. Do you think it hurts light performance or is just knowing it's there when viewed under a loop what bothers you?

Sorry I keep asking questions but I think I'm looking for a reason to buy it unless it's just a terrible idea and terrible diamond.

 

[liaerfbv]

There are 2 issues here and you're confusing them.

1. Durability. Will the defects in the stone make it possibly unsafe to wear long term. A feather is a high risk defect, particularly if it's the grade setting clarity issue. Feather is just a fancy name for a crack.

2. Eye clean. Will you be able to see the defects of a stone with your eyes. You could possibly see a feather, you might not. A SI2 feather will most likely IMO be visible and that may or may not bother your FF. "Pepper" in a stone is also not desirable but generally doesn't affect the durability of the stone - it's just ugly to look at.

You want to find a stone that is a nice balance of the 2 issues. Make sense?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

There are clouds, crystals that are white or clear, and there are twining wisps that are white. All of these can be inclusions that result in an eyeclean stone. Although anytime you have a lot of inclusions, you are risking diminishing light performance somewhat especially if there are a lot of clouds. No one is recommending stones with a lot of black carbon inclusions. Again, I like good clarity and I don't buy less than VS2 for myself. But I think you can find some very nice eyeclean SI1's and on occasion an SI2 with something like twining wisps. I'd never buy a stone with an SI2 feather or even an SI1 with a feather as a primary inclusion. I'd rather have a 1.8 ct H VS2 over a 2 ct H SI2 anyday, or I'd go to I VS2 to get 2 cts.

 

[yssie]

I would not want that stone.
The feather - under the flat bezel facet - is ideally placed to partially prong. Unless you choose a setting with unusually wide prongs, you aren't going to be able to hide all of it, but the prong is a visual distraction.
However, I can see the feather reflecting throughout the stone as it turns in that video, and I think the reflections at small tilt angle would drive me a bit nutty.
I have an SI2 that is not eyeclean face-up loose, but with the main (non-reflecting) inclusion partially pronged, it's mind-clean in practice. If I was to do it again, honestly, I'd throw a few thousand more at it and go up to VS2 just to avoid the headache of pronging the inclusion. There are really no deals in the retail market - the fact that one SI2 is "better" than another will be reflected in the price.

 

[jimyhoff]

So it sounds like everyone is thinking this feather will be visible without a loop or microscope? And is James Allen the best place to look? When I do a pricescope search there are many other vendors that come up at what look to be lesser prices.

 

[Mayk]

Have you considered an antique diamond. A little warmer but they perform differently more pastels bigger flashes and you can get the size you want in the budget. There are some great experts here to help.

This one is stunning!
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-25ct-transitional-early-round-brilliant-cut-diamond-gia-k-vvs2.html#.Uxn2-Mu9KK0

This one whiter older cut but bigger and still in budget. Grace would be so helpful!


http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/2-01-to-3-00/2-47ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs2.html#.Uxn3Tcu9KK0

Here's one example in a "M" just purchased and set. Just stunning and huge!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-42-oec-reset-journey-solitaire-to-joe-escobar-halo.199236/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-42-oec-reset-journey-solitaire-to-joe-escobar-halo.199236/[/URL]

 

[jimyhoff]

Thanks for the thought but she's more into modern things. Although I don't mind it the vintage look at least in clothing is not her style.

 

[Mayk]

Thanks for the thought but she's more into modern things. Although I don't mind it the vintage look at least in clothing is not her style.

You can set in a modern setting..... It doesn't have to be in an antiques style setting.

I did mine in a bezel.

 

[jimyhoff]

That does look very nice. And I can't tell the difference between it and a modern stone, whatever that means. I'd just be nervous about something with antique in the name. My last girlfriend had that vintage style and I just know better than to go anywhere near there. In her mind if I even look at an Anthropologie store I'm thinking about the old girl. Probably not a discussion for this forum though.

 

[yssie]

That does look very nice. And I can't tell the difference between it and a modern stone, whatever that means. I'd just be nervous about something with antique in the name. My last girlfriend had that vintage style and I just know better than to go anywhere near there. In her mind if I even look at an Anthropologie store I'm thinking about the old girl. Probably not a discussion for this forum though.

Yeah, okay, no antiques!!
What do you think about the other modern rounds DS posted earlier?

 

[jimyhoff]

The three posted earlier in the thread are nice, and I'm interested in them. I just wish someone would say that to the naked eye it's ok to buy the one that's $4k less

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The three posted earlier in the thread are nice, and I'm interested in them. I just wish someone would say that to the naked eye it's ok to buy the one that's $4k less

Sorry, but I think you are out of luck on that! If you want to spend $4k less, we can look for I color or a 1.8 ct stone in H.

As to the vendors, I have bought from Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash and prefer them due to the amount of information you get on the stones as well as their upgrade policies. When paying thousands of dollars, I like to know I am getting the best quality diamonds. However, neither of them (nor Brian Gavin) had any 2 ct H SI1's in stock. GOG is in NY and can get some in easily, but their prices won't really be better than James Allen. James Allen will provide up to three idealscope images, and most of the other drop shippers do not do that. So it is your next best bet.