Tiffany ?

[dsmntlr]

First question: Does anyone know what the standard Tiffany ring size is? 5?

Second question: I am looking at two classic tiffany round diamonds. One is a 1.66 F VVS2 ideal/ideal/ideal, the second is a 1.71 G VVS1 ideal/ideal/ideal. They both have AGS certs that looks perfect. There is a decent price gap between these. Is 5 points a big deal? Can most people even see the difference? I''m thinking I may be more interested in the color difference as opposed to the size.


Thanks in advance

 

[Kaleigh]

The standard ring size for Tiffany is size 6, as it is in most jewelry stores. As far as seeing a difference between the 1.66 and the 1.71 I doubt you could see a difference in size.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/27/2005 7:13:14 PM
Author:dsmntlr
First question: Does anyone know what the standard Tiffany ring size is? 5?

Second question: I am looking at two classic tiffany round diamonds. One is a 1.66 F VVS2 ideal/ideal/ideal, the second is a 1.71 G VVS1 ideal/ideal/ideal. They both have AGS certs that looks perfect. There is a decent price gap between these. Is 5 points a big deal? Can most people even see the difference? I''m thinking I may be more interested in the color difference as opposed to the size.


Thanks in advance

can you see the difference between F/G color? if not,go with the G and save some $$,i doubt you can see the difference in size.

 

[dsmntlr]

Thanks for the quick replies. Under most conditions I can''t really tell the difference between G and H, and I definitely can''t between VVS1 and VVS2.

 

[solange]

Tiffany also carries VS1. You would not see the difference between a VS and a VVS and you can go up in size or color for the price.

 

[codex57]

From teh stones I''ve seen, under a loupe, the VVS stones have much smaller inclusions than the VS stones. Under the naked eye, you can''t tell them apart. But, you''re unlikely to be able to tell the difference btw F/G and 1.66/1.71 either. If you don''t like the psychological advantage of being able to say yours is an F color (under the colorless category vs. G which is in the next category), then go with the bigger size since that impresses more people (when they ask).

Why are you going with Tiffany''s anyways? Since you''re considering them, I imagine impressing others and getting a psychological advantage with the stats is very important to you. Otherwise, there''s no reason to buy a Tiffany''s ring cuz they''re way overpriced if you don''t count their name.

 

[dsmntlr]

Date: 2/28/2005 2

8:50 PM
Author: codex57
From teh stones I''ve seen, under a loupe, the VVS stones have much smaller inclusions than the VS stones. Under the naked eye, you can''t tell them apart. But, you''re unlikely to be able to tell the difference btw F/G and 1.66/1.71 either. If you don''t like the psychological advantage of being able to say yours is an F color (under the colorless category vs. G which is in the next category), then go with the bigger size since that impresses more people (when they ask).

Why are you going with Tiffany''s anyways? Since you''re considering them, I imagine impressing others and getting a psychological advantage with the stats is very important to you. Otherwise, there''s no reason to buy a Tiffany''s ring cuz they''re way overpriced if you don''t count their name.

Thanks a ton for the info. I''m not too concerned on stats really, I care more about how the stone appears. I can''t really see the difference. My line of questioning on this thread is more to understand if that''s because I need contacts or whether I''m not the only one.

I''ve decided to go with Tiffany for several reasons.

First reason is I think the price I will pay will only be marginally more than an internet purchase. I''ve been doing as much research on this board as possible over the past month or so and have been compiling prices for 2 different diamond size ranges. 1.40-1.49 and 1.60-1.70. Tiffany''s prices vary greatly. Many people on this board have posted that the markup is around 75% (a lot of dealers), others 20% (mostly people buying from Tiffany''s). I''ve found that you will find the whole spectrum. I have about 35 Tiffany diamond''s priced in my analysis from 1.25cts to 1.80cts. The range of markup varies from 2.5% to 61.42%. This calculation is based on my own value of the real Tiffany Classic Setting, which I value at $1,000. I''m not sure which diamond I am going to choose, but none are marked up more than 20%, and the most likely is marked up 2.5%.

Second, I have had a great experience with my sales lady at Tiffany. She has made time after hours and on off days for me to come look at the diamonds under a loupe and microscope, as well as bringing in the multiple stones I am interested in from around the country and the associated certs. She is my 3rd rep, and my last . The first 2 weren''t nearly as helpful, although I found them both professional.

Third, a sense of safety. I think if I was choosing this diamond with my girlfriend I would be more apt to take a slightly lower price and give up some of the safety of the brand. Because she has no clue this is coming, for me Tiffany''s is a safe bet.

Finally, I love the setting. As I mentioned earlier, it has a value to me of $1,000. I''ve looked at replicas and to me they aren''t the same. I also like knowing the ring is made specifically for the stone.

Thanks again for the help!

John

 

[sharon scott]

When you browse at Tiffany''s, will they provide certs upon request?

Their pricing has always kept me from even asking.

 

[dsmntlr]

Date: 2/28/2005 3:28:28 PM
Author: just(ice)

When you browse at Tiffany''s, will they provide certs upon request?

Their pricing has always kept me from even asking.

I''m not sure on this one. I had 4 diamonds brought in to a store. She had all 4 certs sent as well. I''m not sure if they are always in the same location or not.

 

[codex57]

I''d say $1000 is a very accurate valuation of what the classic setting is worth. As long as the price premium isn''t too high and you''re willing to accept it for peace of mind, service, etc., then go for it. Glad you got good service. I had good service at teh South Coast Tiffany''s and really slow, bored, snooty service from the West LA Tiffany''s.

Since you''re not into stats, but how it looks, take good care as to teh cut. Tiffany''s never has horrible cuts. Still, if you can use an IdealScope, it may help narrow down stones that are close and you have trouble deciding between. I''d err on the side of a larger stone. Drop clarity and then color to get a bigger carat size. That''s what people are gonna see the most (the size). Without a loupe, as long as you stay in the VS level (don''t think Tiffany''s goes below VS), you''ll be fine. Then, you can drop a color grade or two to get an even bigger stone.

No, you don''t need contacts. It''s hard to tell different color grades. I can tell, but I need something to directly compare it too. And, I have to flip the stone upside down. G seems to be when I start to suspect it''s not colorless (by itself), but I really can''t tell for sure until it gets to like the I level. On a finger, you really can''t tell. Still, I wouldn''t go too low b/c while your g/f is gonna love the ring, once it''s on her hand, she''s gonna inspect the hell out of it. Mine does.

The point is you wanna put off the diamond shrinkage or desire for an upgrade syndrome that eventually should set in. I think I''m good for a while b/c the stone I bought had great color and is of sufficient size that it''s on the larger end of the people she hangs around. So, until the people around her start getting upgrades, I''m good fora while.

 

[dsmntlr]

Thanks a ton Codex. That''s great advice on stone size. Putting off the shrinkage day of reckoning would definitely be nice.
I appreciate the post and the help!

 

[diamond island]

Dsmntlr, I do see your point on the "Tiffany" brand the the security and the premium they charge. I also paid the premium for the "eightstar" brand. Similar reasons. Eightstar I think puts an even higher premium than Tiffany. Tiffany diamonds do look nice. I agree, you can definately tell the size difference between the larger and the smaller. Likely can tell the color and clarity difference from the two you are looking at.

 

[lostdog]

First reason is I think the price I will pay will only be marginally more than an internet purchase. I've been doing as much research on this board as possible over the past month or so and have been compiling prices for 2 different diamond size ranges. 1.40-1.49 and 1.60-1.70. Tiffany's prices vary greatly. Many people on this board have posted that the markup is around 75% (a lot of dealers), others 20% (mostly people buying from Tiffany's). I've found that you will find the whole spectrum. I have about 35 Tiffany diamond's priced in my analysis from 1.25cts to 1.80cts. The range of markup varies from 2.5% to 61.42%. This calculation is based on my own value of the real Tiffany Classic Setting, which I value at $1,000. I'm not sure which diamond I am going to choose, but none are marked up more than 20%, and the most likely is marked up 2.5%.


Peace of mind, a reputable firm, and as you've discovered, possibly even the good service they talk about, I'll give you all those, but even with the setting at $1000 or more (I always figured at least that much myself), 2.5% over good internet vendors?

I didn't look in the 1.5 range, but when talking about 1ct or 3/4ct, or even less, that's about 1/10 of what the difference appeared to be, maybe 1/20. And it assumes that you want to spend $1000 or more on the (admittedly nice) setting.

Size, if this were .66 versus .71, then yes, go bigger if you can, but at 1.66 v 1.71, it is mostly psychological. Did you get the actual diameters from the certs?

You do seem comfortable paying for things that you can't reasonably see, but I'd save the money and go F VVS2 over G VVS1. You probably could never tell the clarity on your own, loupe or not, but you might be able to see the color in a subtle way. It's very hard to tell any color difference under T's lighting conditions, more so than most jewelry lighting.

 

[dsmntlr]

Date: 3/1/2005 12

7:21 PM
Author: lostdog
First reason is I think the price I will pay will only be marginally more than an internet purchase. I''ve been doing as much research on this board as possible over the past month or so and have been compiling prices for 2 different diamond size ranges. 1.40-1.49 and 1.60-1.70. Tiffany''s prices vary greatly. Many people on this board have posted that the markup is around 75% (a lot of dealers), others 20% (mostly people buying from Tiffany''s). I''ve found that you will find the whole spectrum. I have about 35 Tiffany diamond''s priced in my analysis from 1.25cts to 1.80cts. The range of markup varies from 2.5% to 61.42%. This calculation is based on my own value of the real Tiffany Classic Setting, which I value at $1,000. I''m not sure which diamond I am going to choose, but none are marked up more than 20%, and the most likely is marked up 2.5%.


Peace of mind, a reputable firm, and as you''ve discovered, possibly even the good service they talk about, I''ll give you all those, but even with the setting at $1000 or more (I always figured at least that much myself), 2.5% over good internet vendors?

I didn''t look in the 1.5 range, but when talking about 1ct or 3/4ct, or even less, that''s about 1/10 of what the difference appeared to be, maybe 1/20. And it assumes that you want to spend $1000 or more on the (admittedly nice) setting.

Size, if this were .66 versus .71, then yes, go bigger if you can, but at 1.66 v 1.71, it is mostly psychological. Did you get the actual diameters from the certs?

You do seem comfortable paying for things that you can''t reasonably see, but I''d save the money and go F VVS2 over G VVS1. You probably could never tell the clarity on your own, loupe or not, but you might be able to see the color in a subtle way. It''s very hard to tell any color difference under T''s lighting conditions, more so than most jewelry lighting.

Thanks for the advice. I think you''re right, for the common consumer one grade of color is probably more important than a grade of clarity. I certainly can''t tell the difference.

Tiffany markup is tough to dial down. Their markup seems to be at the high end when you hit the magic numbers, ie. 1.5, 2, etc. There aren''t too many good deals and they certainly aren''t worried about that, but there are some. I haven''t looked at prices for diamonds under 1.25, so I''m not sure on the markup there currently, but I wouldn''t be surprised if its not on the higher end. The best deals I have found are in the 1.4-1.49 range. There aren''t many diamonds in this category anywhere. There is zero inventory at Cartier and zero inventory at DeBeers in London. Even here with the Pricescope search, if you are looking at the highest end stuff, ie. H&A and only ideals, there is nothing from e-vendors at all. Tiffany is actually pretty good in this zone. They have about 6 diamonds in this range, 3 of which look interesting to me. The best related online offering I found was from GOG. A 1.453 H&A, F, VS1. The similar diamond at Tiffany sold over the weekend. It was a 1.46 F VS1 which was selling for 12% more than GOG after factoring in the $1,000 setting.

I am heading over to check out 4 today with certs. I''ll make sure and write down the specs on all four, even if I choose to buy one of them. (which I think I might! I''m planning to propose 2 weeks from tomorrow. I''m still getting butterflys every time I even think about it!

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[codex57]

Date: 3/1/2005 12:48:48 PM
Author: dsmntlr

I''m planning to propose 2 weeks from tomorrow. I''m still getting butterflys every time I even think about it!

Good luck. Try and stay calm. Keep it fairly simple. Less to mess up. You''re gonna be nervous even while proposing so make sure it''s simple enough to do even if you''re super nervous and stammering all over yourself.

 

[snow_happy]

Hello,

I''m glad you are happy with your purchase and confident in buying at Tiffany''s. I was looking at around 0.40-0.45 ct T&Co 6 prong ring but found that I could get a 0.6-0.7 ct. (almost double the size! yayyyyy) ring for the same price at a local B&M jewelry store. Don''t get me wrong...I ADORE the T&Co setting... and the replicas will also run you close to $1000. As long as YOU are happy with paying the additional % then that''s what counts. Looking at percentages is weird for me because 10% of my ring will be much less than 10% of your ring!

If the 10-12% equates to thousands of dollars...well...then I might reconsider buying at T&C0 but it''s all a personal preference. I haven''t heard as good a customer service story as yours from T&Co but customer service to me is worth paying a premium as well.

Anywho, on the size thing I would def. go with the larger 1.71 since your gf can say it''s just under one and three-quarters carats whereas with the 1.66 she would say it''s between 1.5 and 1.75 carats...weird but definitely pyschologically different.

Good luck with the engagement!

 

[ame]

I was also going to say go down to VS1. You won''t be able to tell a difference.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

umm dunno what prices your going on at T&Co.

how about 1.512 F VVS2 0 (H&A) A Cut Above HCA 0.8-EX ex-ex-ex-vg Depth 60.8% Table 55% Crown 34.3° Pavilion 40.7° AGS thn-med f pt id id neg 7.40-7.47X4.53 $18905 from whiteflash? (plus $350 for a Tiffany style 6 or 4 prong setting) here

I think the ''setting made for the stone'' is just marketing hype - each ring made is made for the stone weither it has T&Co. stamped inside it or not - each stone is different, and the setter will have had to get the right match. There are alot of other good jewellers out there who will take as much, if not more care of getting the ring perfect as a T&Co setter.

Oh and probable difference between a 1.5ct and a 1.75ct is about 0.5mm (1.5 - 7.3mm and 1.75 - 7.7mm) so really side by side loose you *may* tell the diff... otherwise probly not... but then im not the one with the money to spend. Just an interested bystander who likes looking at these rocks.

 

[Regular Guy]

Dsmntlr,

This note is mainly in support of your analysis. Looks like you''ve got your head screwed on pretty well on these things.

A few related details in the mix. Yes, Lord Summerisle did find the comparable on this board you might want to compare your option against.

Even further, for my taste, you could go down on clarity, whether at Tiffanys, or here, and consider another option or two at $14K or $15K.

Based on actuals not specified, I might even argue you''d do better here. But there are the intangibles. Based on our picture, when getting my wife''s replacment ring, we had the option of driving up to DirtCheapDiamonds, and we took it, and are very happy with the result. Just yesterday, my wife told me about a friend grabbing her hand and asking her about her engagement ring. However, she had to add that she didn''t confide to her friend the part of the name of the company we used to replace the ring.

White Flash...god bless them...and I recommend them here all the time. Right now, despite their having earned a place of respect, based on their good and hard work, mainly it''s readers here that know that they reliably offer very good quality. Still, the name of Tiffany will provide a boost, based on their history and heritage. It''s hard to put a price on it...but your beloved will know it.

Best of wishes. Preliminarily, sounds like you''ve done the analysis.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Aye, i think, reading other T&Co threads.. the bottom line advice given has been - T&Co have some lovely stones... as do others. If the name is important to you to have stamped on the inside of the ring - go for it. If you fall in love with a particular stone they have - go for it. If getting the best for your money is important - then might be worth looking around and seeing whats out there, if at the end the T&Co stone stands tall... go for it, at least you''ve put mind at rest that you''ve seen the competion, and gone for whats best for you, if you find another stone in that search again cool... the search was worth it in both instances.

I think some of here enjoy looking at and for stones to help folk out. sometimes the choice is bewildering... sometimes its quite clearcut - depends on what the search is for and whats listed at that time.

 

[solange]

Whiteflash has three Tiffany style settings. The one closest to the real one is a bit under $1000. I have it and I am very pleased with it.
Mara recently listed it under SHowMeThe Ring and you can see the Whiteflash best quality Tiffany setting there.
I also bought my stone at Whiteflash and am very pleased. I bought a perfectly eye clean SI2 stone from them. I was not concerned about what I could not see.
Everyone has their own priorities. If the Tiffany name is important to you and you are very pleased with the service and selection, I think that is the greatest way for you to go. It sounds as if you can get exactly what you want with the help of this salesperson. Good luck with your purchase.

 

[lostdog]

Does anybody have idealscope shots of any Tiffany diamonds?

 

[dsmntlr]

Thanks everyone for such good advice and encouragement. I flew up to the Portland store from San Francisco for $200 on Southwest today to finally put this baby to rest, and to save an extra $1700 in the process. I must say, Oregon can be very useful sometimes

.

Thanks for the encouragement Codex. I tried to breathe as much as possible.

I have to say, Pricescope has been an invaluable resource. The level of knowledge and insight here really helped make this a fun process. It''s nice to walk into a store and not feel mystified by every little detail. (and there are so many!) I actually brought on my Treo a spreadsheet with ideal parameters for cut, etc from info I garnered from this board.

snow_happy, I love the name! I have the proposal planned for the 16th in Whistler, so more snow up there would definitely make me happy!

I agree on your thoughts on the size. The price between the 1.66 and 1.71 were extremely similar as well...

After some of the advice on this thread, I had my saleslady look for some VS1 stones as well, which she found and had for me. You guys were right on. No difference to the eye. Even under the microscope it was difficult to locate the inclusion.

Thanks for the encouragement Regular Guy! I agree that there are quite a few excellent vendors regularly onthis board. I''ve been extremely impressed with WF, GOG, and DCD. It''s good to see online firms that seem to really value educating their consumers.

Lord Summerisle, I just checked out that diamond. Looks extremely nice. I''m assuming the $18905 is calculated with a discount for a bank transfer as the diamond is listed at $19,900? The difference between the 1.46 and the 1.7 was pretty easy to see, especially from the side. The top view was clear as well, but not as obvious. The 6 prongs also flare out a lot more on the bigger stones so you get a different effect in that way as well, which I hadn''t thought of.

So... I made the poor woman spend 3 hours with me pouring over the certs and abusing the microscope.

She was great and even let me look at them in normal (non halogen) lighting as well as outside in sunlight. 3 of the 4 diamonds were ideal/ideal/ideal, with one ideal/vg/vg. Bottom line...I actually did it!

I''m still kind of amazed. I think I''ve spent about 200 hours on this and I must say its kind of weird to be done. I''m so excited so please don''t rip on my decision too much!!!!

I took a picture of the certs and I''ll post the exact specs when I get home and download them off my camera. The basics are:

1.71 G VS1 ideal/ideal/ideal, medium/faceted, No Culet, No Fluorescence. $22,200
Pretty close to this one on GOG but in a G instead of an F: http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_72ct_f_vs1_h%26a.htm

I think I payed around a 18% premium which I feel comfortable with. If this was a once a week purchase maybe not, but a once in a lifetime (pleeeaaaassse!) I can handle. I guess the bottom line is I fell in love with that particular diamond, now I just hope she will too.

Again, thanks a ton to everyone for the help and emotional support. You''ve saved me from about $5000 in psychiatric bills so maybe I even came out ahead!

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 3/2/2005 2:33:49 AM
Author: dsmntlr
I guess the bottom line is I fell in love with that particular diamond, now I just hope she will too.

Again, thanks a ton to everyone for the help and emotional support. You''ve saved me from about $5000 in psychiatric bills so maybe I even came out ahead!

Well I would say - bottom line, THAT is what matters. I know I fell in love with the diamond I chose. You''ve laid your fears at rest, so they''ll be no niggling doubts about what else is out there and could you have got a better diamond if you had looked.

I dont think she''ll be disappointed what ever you got... Its you she is marrying not a ring

but she''ll love the effort you''ve put in too.

 

[Daniela]

That''s great you found a ring!

So we''ll all be waiting for your thread in Show me the Ring...

 

[AGBF]

What is a "standard size ring" and why does such a thing exist?

Deb

 

[solange]

I think the premium you paid at Tiffany was well worth it because you got to see a great selection of stones, got excellent service and wound up with exactly what you wanted. The most important thing is that you feel comfortable with your choice and I am sure she will love it. It was a
smart move to go with the VS1 instead of VVS. Color, cut and size are visible but inclusions in a VS stone will be very small and insignificant and will not in any way interfere with the beauty of the stone but will affect the price.

My ring is an SI2 and, although I know where the inclusions are, I cannot find them without a loupe even though the stone is quite large. This was not an engagement ring. It was an anniversary present my husband insisted that I have. I felt it was an extravagance since I have a beautiful engagement ring so I wanted to keep the price down and get an ideally proportioned stone that looks great and is larger than my engagement ring. Pricescope was perfect for me.

In your case, you had obviously studied the situation carefully and knew exactly what you were getting and how to compare prices. Many people who buy at Tiffany are not as enlightened as you are and may be guided by a salesperson. They may wind up with a smaller or more expensive stone of higher color and clarity than necessary because they have not done any research.You knew exactly what you wanted and got it. I congratulate you on your purchase and your trip to Oregon to save 1700. You really knew what you were doing. Best wishes on your forthcoming engagement. I hope your future is as bright and beautiful as the ring. You sound like a really smart guy and you are getting off to a great start with this ring.

 

[codex57]

Congrats! Congrats! Congrats! Let us know how the proposal turns out too.

I agree with Lord Summerisle. Being absolutely comfortable and satisfied with the ring is the most important. Everyone values different aspects of a stone differently. Some value price (or value actually). Some want the best specs. Most want a combo. But everyone''s different. In the end, you have to be happy with your choice, not what others think you should have gotten. My stone and the price I paid prolly falls a little outside of teh PriceScope norm too, but I got great help here and I''m totally happy with the ring. More importantly, my fiance is totally happy with the ring and my decision making process that led to it (I told her most of the story afterwards, but not about PS in case she reads my posts hahaha).

 

[dsmntlr]

Date: 3/2/2005 3:50:51 AM
Author: Lord Summerisle

Well I would say - bottom line, THAT is what matters. I know I fell in love with the diamond I chose. You''ve laid your fears at rest, so they''ll be no niggling doubts about what else is out there and could you have got a better diamond if you had looked.

I dont think she''ll be disappointed what ever you got... Its you she is marrying not a ring

but she''ll love the effort you''ve put in too.

Thanks a lot. I definitely agree. Comfort is a worthy goal when you are dealing with something so meaningful and financially substantial. Now I just have to get her to say yes!

 

[dsmntlr]

Date: 3/2/2005 7:34:12 AM
Author: Daniela
That''s great you found a ring!

So we''ll all be waiting for your thread in Show me the Ring...

I certainly will! It''s all packaged up at the moment so it will have to be post "deed"

. Thanks!