Did I get scammed?

[Almost There]

I am in Bangkok and bought a 27 carat amethyst from a store called Royal Lapidary recommended by my hotel concierge. The price was $750. The stone, while it looked nice in the store, doesn''t look that amazing back in the hotel. It has a nice color to it and decent "flash" on the edges, but it''s not the deep purple/red that seems to command higher prices in my quick checks online. There is one small inclusion on the surface of a facet on the bottom of the stone- almost like a very small pit. It''s not visible frolm the face, nor are there any other visible inclusions.

Without seeing the stone I know it''s tough but can anyone give me an idea of the price range for amethyst in this size?

When I did a little more research on the store tonight I found that while it''s considered a reputable dealer it has also been involved in the typical Thailand gem scam more than once, according to internet reports. They also were fairly high on the quote they gave me to have the stone set in white gold with diamonds...I had my wife''s e-ring made so I have a pretty good idea of the cost of settings and diamonds.

On the other hand they are a member of the "Jewel Fest" association and the store was huge with very nice collection of jewelry so I felt safe making a purchase there.

Any thoughts?

 

[Richard M.]

Unless the stone is of super quality, $28/ct. is a fairly high retail U.S. price. I wouldn''t call it being "scammed" because you regularly pay far higher percentage mark-ups on merchandise from your local hardware store. But average quality amethysts, even in large sizes, usually sell for around $15/ct. tops in the U.S. You sure didn''t get a bargain, especially if the stone has a ding.

This image shows a superb Four Peaks (AZ) amethyst of 37.21 carats. This material is some of the best in the world and this stone is available from a U.S. dealer for $30 a carat.

Taking a concierge''s advice on a stone purchase is not a good way to go -- they usually get kick-backs from sellers, just like cab drivers. Buying stones overseas is very difficult for even experienced dealers. The notion that you can "get it cheaper at the source" is almost never true unless you''re a professional. Enjoy your amethyst and consider it a great souvenir from Bangkok.

 

[valeria101]

Large ametyst with perfectly even color throughout, no inclusions... large store selling. Well, few ever bother to id amethyst and it''s hard to tell who''se who, but it''s been a while since I have seen a non-syntetic ametyst in fashion jewelry. Sorry to say that

 

[Almost There]

All''s well that ends well....After checking the very helpful replies here I spoke with the hotel concierge this morning. The Peninsula is a pretty reputable hotel and I guess they want to keep it that way because within a minute he was on the phone and had arranged for the shop manager to come to the hotel to take the stone back and issue me a credit on my credit card.

The meeting went smoothly and the store manager was very professional. I explained to him completely honestly that I had priced comparable stones for much less in the U.S. and that I was also concerned about the reports online that they were involved with the Thai gem scams to some degree.

He answered the question about price by saying that some colored gem stones are more popular in certain markets and command a higher price in those markets (which I took as him just saving face so I let it go at that).

He didn''t care to comment on whether the reports about the gem scam and since he was quite professional and I had a signed AMEX credit voucher I didn''t push it.

The happy ending to the story is that we ended up finding a really unique morganite ring in a designer shop. After a little negotiation we came to a price that I knew was fair based just on the value of the setting and the accent stones.

Thanks again for the repies, and if you are buying gems in Thailand, follow the advice out there and be very careful.

 

[Ymanda]

Hi Almost There,

I had some fun reading your adventure.

It reminded me my own arrival in Bangkok 6 month ago.

My touk-touk driver proposed me to have a look in a very nice tailor shop to have my clothes made custom-tailored.
Finally they did some very good work, but that Indian tailor was really expensive compared to others in Bangkok.

I found out that i could have the same for half the price i got. I guess the touk-touk driver got a nice commission on my purchase.

By the way, i am new on PriceScope. I live in Thailand were i came first to visit my young brother and to practice a little bit at the AIGS School. My friend and teacher Vincent Pardieu (alias "Mogok") brought me around in some field trips (Chantaburry, Pailin, Laos, Burma very soon i hope...) and we could see a lot of mines, even burners for the treatment of corundum... I loved it.

Finally i decided to stay in south-east Asia for a while.
It''s such a good place for stone lovers, but Asian people are very smart in business

, so...

WATCH OUT !!!

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 1/27/2005 5:55

0 AM
Author: valeria101
it''s been a while since I have seen a non-syntetic ametyst in fashion jewelry. Sorry to say that

Ana''s right -- synthetic amethyst, in fact synthetic rubies, sapphires and emeralds -- are featured in most lines of fashion jewelry in large department stores and other volume sellers. But fine natural amethysts are available from various sources around the world like American Four Peaks material and the incredible stones from Maquar, Afghanistan; Jalingo, Nigeria and Para, Brazil, to name a few sources. There''s plenty of middle-quality natural amethyst available as well.

Her post again emphasizes the importance of having a few natural inclusions in gems to prove non-synthetic provenance. Inclusions, veils and zoning are the best clues to natural origin. Nigerian amethysts typically have a few silvery threads of hematite and Afghani material often has threads of silver or multicolored goethite. Some amethysts have two-phase inclusions as well. Of course inclusiions should not detract from the beauty of the stone.

I''m happy your amethyst adventure was concluded to your satisfaction.

 

[innerkitten]

Really, they are using syntheic amethysts in jewelry? Does that include the sterling stuff from India?

 

[Richard M.]

Inner Kitten:

It''s hard to say; you''d have to check each piece individually which, as Ana points out, isn''t economically worthwhile. Much Indian-made Sterling jewelry I''ve seen featured rather low-quality natural stones. But huge amounts of lab-grown amethyst are being cut in Asia and elsewhere. Consider this: Brazil is the largest exporter of cut and polished amethyst, citrine and ametrine. It is also the largest importer of rough synthetic versions of those three quartzes. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[innerkitten]

Interesting.
Thanks Richard.

 

[mogok]

Hello,
First i've to say that I'm very happy to see you here Ymanda... Finally you did it!
Well to introduce Ymanda to the visitors of this forum, Ymanda is a HRD (Antwerp, Belgium) and DUG (Nantes, France) gemologist that came in Bangkok to study more on colored stones and has taken the course about synthetic and treated stones I was teaching at AIGS. He has an excellent background dealing with Diamonds (His family was mining diamonds in centralafrican republic) and he is now with some other former AIGS students taking care of gemwow.com website while i'm taking care of the AIGS gemological laboratory.

To come back to the amethyst subject:
Yes there is a lot of synthetic amethyst in the market. We are doing many amethyst at AIGS lab as we are one of the very few labs in bangkok to have an FTIR and we see many synthetic gems. The reasons are that first the cost of natural and synthetic stones are globally nearly the same. Then people want their amethysts to be clean and finally if you want to make some jewelry they want the stones to match each other. If you want 20 amethyst to match correctly you will may be need several days to find the stones if you deal with natural stones. If you deal with synthetic, its more simple: You cut all the stones from the same rough and the problem is gone.
Finaly the detection of natural versus synthetic amethyst is not that easy if the stone does not present any natural diagnostic inclusions. If Brazil law twinning is seen in most natural amethysts it is possible also in some synthetics grown from twinned material. Infrared Spectroscopy was seen before as the key to separate natural and synthetic stones but the evolution of growing techniques and some new mines have changed that. In fact now a laboratory needs to compare the results of the 3 techniques in order to give a good diagnostic...

All the best,