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Just Bought A Clarity Enhanced Need Advice

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
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Aug 14, 2014
Messages
28
I know this topic has been talked about before but here is my unique story.
I did all my research about the 4 Cs and never heard of CE diamond. I originally wanted to buy a smaller but higher quality diamond until I realized that most people only know what they paid for it and how many karats. So I decided to go with a bigger karat and lesser quality. I went to three stores and they all gave me what I thought were good quotes; but the first store no certification. I knew that GIA was the best with EGL being a moderate if not far second place appraiser. So we went to the next store, this guy gave me a much better deal but it was only EGL certified. My fiance and I decided to go to another store. Here the guy showed us a better color but a little smaller karat (2.15 vs 2.01) but it was GIA and was a few hundred dollars more expensive. I thought we should go with it as it was so beautiful and so big looking.

I paid by credit card. When we got home, my girl was noticing that the gemologist who signed the certificate was GIA certified but the certificate was NOT GIA, it was GAI. The certificate looked exactly like a GIA. We started to Google GAI but only found their web site. We Googled the store we bought it in and we saw a negative comment that said that they sold CE diamonds and didn't tell people. Thats when I started reading up on CE diamonds and began to think maybe we had one. I looked on the certificate and in the comments it said Clarity Enhanced. We were shocked as we did not know what that was and thought this was GIA certified, instead it was GAI certified.

The store has no refund policy in 30 days unless we get a non-jewlery store appraiser to appraise it at less what we had paid for it. I heard that GIA wont certify CE diamonds and they take 6-7 weeks, so I want to get it certified by EGL and if it comes back below what I paid I want to put a stop payment on my credit card. But if it comes back as the certified as worth what I paid what are my options? Can I still put a stop payment?
 

Acinom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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So sorry to hear your story :nono:

- Have you contacted the seller, telling him you were not aware of the clarity enhancement and that you would like a refund (never hurts to try!)
- I would also contact your credit card company and stop the payment (never hurts to try)
- GIA and EGL are certification companies; they describe the diamond but do not give a value. You should contact an independent appraiser. Hopefully more experienced PSers chime in to give you a name of a reliable appraiser.

There are several levels of enhancement by the way: from heating to fracture filling etc. Some are not as bad as others.

The jeweller should have stated that the stone is enhanced. The weak thing in this case is that it was stated on the certificate...
 

RandG

Brilliant_Rock
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I would contact your credit card right away and dispute the charge on the basis of fraud, that you were unaware it was not a natural untreated stone. Share the GAI/GIA reports which were misleading as you thought it was a GIA certified stone because the report looked authentic and you were pressured in-store to make the purchase with no waiting period. Every card has different levels of consumer protection (amex is really good) and they will tell you what to do, but it may likely involve you submitting a fact based statement, all the relevant documents, and even returning the item by insured registered mail, return receipt.

At the same time I would let the vendor know you're not going to accept the item and you want to find an amicable solution. Vendors hate chargebacks because in a vast majority of the cases, when fraud is claimed, they are powerless against the credit card company. Are you in NY? You should also check your local BBB and consumer protection laws around diamonds. You have the right to file a complaint. Call the Consumer Affairs Hotline at (212) 487-4444 or (718) 286-2994.

Good luck!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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58,547
For anyone reading, NEVER buy a diamond when there is no return policy! That is the first red flag for a scam! You get what you pay for (or often less), so a great price is an indicator that the item is not what you are thinking.

You've been given great advice to dispute the charge if you paid by credit card if you've contacted the seller and they won't budge. I hope you did. I would do it on the basis that you were not told it was clarity enhanced, but he can come back and say he provided you the report that says it is.

You wouldn't wait to send the diamond to EGL. You use an appraiser such as Neil Beatty or David Atlas who are respected independent appraisers. But the fact is, they may say it is exactly what is represented on your paperwork. It really is your fault for not looking at the grading report before buying, to be honest. I really hope you can get out of this.
 

TC1987

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 19, 2011
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1,833
Unless every 2ct-ish diamond you looked at was clarity enhanced, or you are being VASTLY overcharged for the one you bought, the price should have aroused suspicion. But I think you can get out of it by getting your credit card company involved, if you can't make the store just take it back and refund you. Just get your money back any way that you can. Don't play nice.
 

Acinom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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May 15, 2013
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+1: is it even legal to have a no-return policy for items that are:
- not custom made
- in a Sale discount

In the Netherlands the rule is that you may return items that are not in the above category. Consumers are protected that way. Is this also applicable in the States.

Anyhow, you have been misled and that alone should give you the right to return it. Hope you have already contacted the vendor and your credit card company.
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
28
I just put a disputed charge on the credit card charge and am taking it to EGL right now to get it appraised. If it comes in below what they said it is then I have cause for return, if not I will still try to fight the charge. The credit card company said I will be getting a letter and I have to fill it out and when I get the appraisal to send in a copy.
 

luvdajules

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
539
Why EGL? They are known to be softer in grading. Go to real appraiser that's GIA graduate gemologist who has master stones for color. You can go to GIA too, with 2 day turnaround if you drop it off yourself.
 

RandG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
675
If you use EGL (UGS) for an appraisal make sure you do it in person, in consultation with the gemologist, to explain your issue and what you need to achieve. If you simply send it in, or drop it off with no explanation of what your expected outcome is, you may be disappointed.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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EGL is not an appraising service, they grade diamonds. You need to figure out if what you need is a grading report or an appraisal. And I'd talk to the store before doing any of that because you may be able to talk them into a return without that.
 

RandG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
675
UGS is the appraisal arm of EGL. If the buyer here needs an "appraisal" or a cert, EGL can help on both fronts.
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
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Aug 14, 2014
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I wanted to go to EGL because GIA has a 6-7 week waiting period. I dont have that kind of time. Anyway, I went to EGL USA, who claims they are better than EGL International and I explained to them the situation and they told me they would not be able to give me an appraisal for less than I paid for it, in fact, she went online and told me the retail value was higher. When I told her I checked online and the retail was lower she asked me if I went to EGL USA or EGL and I had gone to EGL. She said I had no case because the phoney GAI cert they gave me had CE on it. What I should have asked was does she think I can sell that at retail and see what she said. Being that I have been so badly burned I feel they are in cahootz now with some of the stores.

So I went to IGI and while they said they would NOT be able to give me the color and clarity because it was a CE they would give me a better and more real diagram and explanation of the CE work done AND give me a price.
In case I havent mentioned, I paid 8,900 for the diamond and 9,687 total with the 14k white gold. IGI appraised it for 5,625. So now I can send the copy to the credit card company that has already but the charge in dispute and Im waiting for their letter to answer questions on the purchase and send them a copy of the appraisal; further, I have also now complied with the store policy of beating the purchase price so they would now have to violate their own store policy.
I will call them tomorrow to ask for a refund. The person at IGI also told me to threaten them with the JVC if I dont get a refund.

On top of all that, me an my girl ate lunch and then went to 4 more stores, this time our balls were very BIG. We were arrogant, demanded ONLY GIA diamonds, in fact the first place went into was showing us crap until I asked for GIA and then they brought out the GIA. I didnt fall for the "what's you budget" line. I told them my budget is $1.00 but I doubt you have $1.00 diamonds, let me see what you got in the size, color and clarity with NO CE and then we can discuss prices. They treated us COMPLETELY different. The third place we went into we demanded espresso and whiskey and we got it. When this guy realized we knew what we were talking about he asked me if I wanted a natural diamond or CE something the jerk at the place I bought my diamond in didn't ask me. We got much better deals and once this case is close with this shiester I will buy the diamonds I looked at and still try to haggle. I have no shame anymore.
 

nuskool89

Rough_Rock
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Aug 7, 2014
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11
Like a boss! Haha
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
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Aug 14, 2014
Messages
28
I just called asking for a refund explaining that it was appraised for less than the purchase price and the guy said he would have the salesman call me back.
 

joebrooklyn

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Aug 14, 2014
Messages
28
They called back and I explained that I got an appraisal for 5,800 and his store policy is that the appraisal is less than the purchase price i can get a refund. He said he wants to see the report. So I faxed it. Now Im waiting.
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
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Aug 14, 2014
Messages
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He called back after getting the fax and said he never heard of an appraisal that didnt give color or clarity. I told him that they said they dont give those on CE diamonds. He said that he wants me to get a second appraisal. I told him I have followed the store policy and if I get a second appraisal he has to pay for it; but to get a verbal appraisal. He agreed. I also told him we were taken aback by the fact that it was a GAI and not a GIA certified diamond. He said when I came in and told him that the last guy was trying to sell me a 2.15 for 8,750 he said he assumed I was looking for a CE diamond.
He said if the second appraiser comes in below the purchase price he will let me look at GIA cert diamonds. I said if I get the second appraisal and I dont like his GIA prices, will I get my money back? He said yes.

Any thoughts?
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 10, 2010
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3,524
Get your money back, THEN look at other stones.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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He is still giving you "the runaround"... :nono: Hopefully you'll get your money back soon and run away from this seller.
 

Acinom

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Store policy is about one appraisal, not two and not about looking at GIA stones first:nono:
Get your money back now... And run
 

RockyRacoon

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joebrooklyn|1408124013|3733080 said:
He called back after getting the fax and said he never heard of an appraisal that didnt give color or clarity. I told him that they said they dont give those on CE diamonds. He said that he wants me to get a second appraisal. I told him I have followed the store policy and if I get a second appraisal he has to pay for it; but to get a verbal appraisal. He agreed. I also told him we were taken aback by the fact that it was a GAI and not a GIA certified diamond. He said when I came in and told him that the last guy was trying to sell me a 2.15 for 8,750 he said he assumed I was looking for a CE diamond.
He said if the second appraiser comes in below the purchase price he will let me look at GIA cert diamonds. I said if I get the second appraisal and I dont like his GIA prices, will I get my money back? He said yes.

Any thoughts?

This is a bad businessman. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THIS PERSON

State that you have followed the policy and will be doing a chargeback on your credit card unless he gives you an immediate refund - no questions asked. Be polite, but firm.

You have given him a chance to make this right, and your CC company stated that if you got the appraisal, you would be following their procedures for chargeback. Seems open and shut on your end.
 

toaster

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
35
DO NOT play around anymore with this guy. DO NOT get a second appraisal based on a verbal that they will pay!

You followed their rules. The CC company is working with you. If the store won't give you back your money based on THEIR policy one ONE appraisal then continue on with the CC chargeback.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,150
There’s so much BS here it’s hard to separate it all.

1) GIA doesn’t do appraisals. They’re a grading lab, and they don’t grade CE stones.

2) The jeweler made no requirements about who you should use as an appraiser or what procedures should be used. It’s correct that the GIA grading scales don’t apply to CE stones and different appraisers grade these things differently but HE GETS NO SAY. His favorite appraiser gets no say. You’re appraiser can come to a price by rolling dice if they want. I wouldn’t recommend using such an appraiser, and by the way I’m not saying anything bad about IGI here, but he doesn’t get to say they’re not good enough. The rule was that it’s not a jewelry store, right? Fine. They’re not.

3) He doesn’t get to come back with a ‘better’ appraiser and you are under no obligation to accept or even read what they have to say, no matter who they choose. Again, they get no vote. The rule was that you needed to get a non-jewelry store appraiser to appraise it at less than what you paid for it. You did that. End of topic. It’s a dumb rule, but it’s their rule, not yours.

I agree with the advice above. Take the appraisal report, the original sales receipt and the terms and conditions where it says you’ve got 30 days to get it appraised and complain to the credit card company. Immediately would be a good schedule, especially if you’re anywhere near that 30th day.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 11, 2011
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Wow, jesus christ, what a horrible experience. Jewelers like that give the whole profession a bad name.
 

msop04

Super_Ideal_Rock
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distracts|1408132570|3733162 said:
Wow, jesus christ, what a horrible experience. Jewelers like that give the whole profession a bad name.

Good grief!! This is exactly what I was thinking... :nono: :nono:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
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58,547
Agree with Neil and others...no way should you get another appraisal!!!! TTell the jeweler you have followed the procedure and want to return the stone, and if he doesn't give the refund in the next 24 hours, you will be pursuing the refund through the credit card company. The fact is, you didn't want a CE diamond regardless of value and he MISLEAD YOU!!!! You are making a HUGE mistake if you keep bowing to his conditions when you have already met the ONE condition for a refund. But I'd proceed with the credit card chargeback because he is likely to string you along. END IT NOW!!!!

As far as buying a diamond is concerned, why after this experience aren't you coming here and looking at our online jewelers who have been PROVEN honest and have better prices than you will find locally???
 

Madison2

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 27, 2012
Messages
507
Joebrooklyn,
I say get your money back and purchase from a pricescope vendor. If I am assuming correctly you are located in New York and there are many pricescope vendors that are located in New York that you can actually stop by their offices and view the diamonds in person with the GIA Certs accompanying them. I would run from the guy your dealing with, don't waste any more valuable time with this crook!
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
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Aug 14, 2014
Messages
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I had made an appointment to get another appraisal but after reading these comments me and my girl decided to not go and we were going to cancel the appointment but ironically, they called me this morning and cancelled. So we called the store and told him we just want a refund. He said ok and wait until we get the official report from IGI in the mail. So I said ok.

I should be getting it in a few days. He also said he knows that we came back to the diamond district and looked at other diamonds. I didnt say anything because either way it's none of his business.

And BTW, yes I am in NYC.
 

RockyRacoon

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Feb 7, 2013
Messages
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joebrooklyn|1408208477|3733730 said:
I had made an appointment to get another appraisal but after reading these comments me and my girl decided to not go and we were going to cancel the appointment but ironically, they called me this morning and cancelled. So we called the store and told him we just want a refund. He said ok and wait until we get the official report from IGI in the mail. So I said ok.

I should be getting it in a few days. He also said he knows that we came back to the diamond district and looked at other diamonds. I didnt say anything because either way it's none of his business.

And BTW, yes I am in NYC.

Once you're ready to make the purchase, get in touch with Engagement Rings Direct and Good Old Gold - two vendors in NY (I believe GOG is Long Island, though).

Either of these vendors will be sure you don't deal with any of this sort of nonsense. I personally have experience with GOG and can vouch for their quality/prices/fairness.

Hopefully you can get a new ring shortly and make this bullshit runaround a distant memory!
 

Madison2

Brilliant_Rock
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Jan 27, 2012
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joebrooklyn|1408208477|3733730 said:
I had made an appointment to get another appraisal but after reading these comments me and my girl decided to not go and we were going to cancel the appointment but ironically, they called me this morning and cancelled. So we called the store and told him we just want a refund. He said ok and wait until we get the official report from IGI in the mail. So I said ok.

I should be getting it in a few days. He also said he knows that we came back to the diamond district and looked at other diamonds. I didnt say anything because either way it's none of his business.

And BTW, yes I am in NYC.

Hi joebrooklyn,
I am glad to hear your getting a refund. Once you do, you should visit ID Jewelry on 47th street in the diamond district.
I am working with Yekutiel and his family at ID Jewelry on my diamond ring and trust me, I am from NY and have been to a lot of jewelers in the diamond district and found many to be very pushy car salesman like. And the only one who really took the time to educate me and show me what to look for was Yekutiel at ID Jewelry. This store is family owned and Israel is his dad. Luann, Julia, Malka and Tami are all wonderful to work with. Yekutiel also showed me how the light reflects the facets of a diamond and even provided us with asset images so we could make a decision on which diamond to pick.
They can work with any budget to make it happen for you and your girl. Stop by and take a look at what they have, you will feel better just speaking to this nice humble family. They are located at 8 west 47th booth 29. They will be moving to 15 west 47th street next month to a nicer building.
P.S. I met a nice Pricesope Member last Friday in the store. He was also looking for a diamond and had a small budget to work with and were shown some nice GIA Diamonds.
Good Luck and keep us posted on your outcome.
 

joebrooklyn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
28
Well, I went to the seller with my official appraisal and the store owner declined my refund saying the receipt said final sale. So I said ok, I have already put in a dispute with my credit card company and I will also call JVC. He said if you want you can come back and speak to the salesman but he's on vacation until next week. I didnt answer him.
I got the letter for additional information from my credit card company Thursday and I mailed it off today.

These guys are crooks. Am I allowed to mention the name of the store on this forum?
 
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