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2.47ct J SI2 OEC help please :)

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
Hi everyone---

My husband and I had been talking about upgrading my engagement ring, and I set my sights on getting an OEC for my upgrade. The stone in my current ER is a GIA G in color, however I do also have a 1ct AVC that is an AGS K, and it looks plenty white to me.

I was aiming for a stone ~8.5mm face up and GIA K or higher in color, though I admit that my experience in gauging my color sensitivity in old cuts is limited to my AVC. Finding a stone with beautiful faceting has been the highest priority for me.

Adam from OWD (who has been so helpful and responsive) has found me a beautiful looking 2.47ct GIA J SI2 that I currently have on hold. I did not think that I could get a J color with my budget, so I am pleasantly surprised to even have the option. While I was concerned about the SI2 clarity, he assured me that the stone is 'very eyeclean' and close to an SI1. He did not see anything concerning about the very thin to slightly thick girdle when I inquired about it.

It is a large purchase for me and actually a little bit over budget (Adam is graciously meeting it part way), therefore I feel like I need the PS blessing before I take the next step.

Please feel free to weigh in on this stone. Does anyone see any glaring red flags? Is the J color an overkill, and will I wish that I held out for a larger stone if DSS sets in? I suppose only time will tell.

Thank you all in advance!

oecb.jpg
oeca.jpg
oec_cert.jpg

Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7d45PeInwQ&feature=youtu.be
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,269
It looks pretty, but I can't tell that much from the video. I would need to see it in regular room lighting, daylight, shade, etc. Generally speaking, I would trust Adam's eye, so I would be open to him sending it to me to see if I like it. Having a return period is key. And I would be less worried about the clarity issue if Adam says it's ok. I would be more concerned about whether I like the faceting, which I could not tell until I looked at it in person.
 

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
LLJsmom said:
It looks pretty, but I can't tell that much from the video. I would need to see it in regular room lighting, daylight, shade, etc. Generally speaking, I would trust Adam's eye, so I would be open to him sending it to me to see if I like it. Having a return period is key. And I would be less worried about the clarity issue if Adam says it's ok. I would be more concerned about whether I like the faceting, which I could not tell until I looked at it in person.
Hi LLJsmom--thank you for the input! :) I agree---I do wish I could see finer details and different lighting scenarios in the photos and video provided. However thank you for reaffirming that I should trust Adam's eye and just take a look for myself. I guess I just needed to hear that this is even a stone worth looking at.

Any other feedback would be welcome! :wavey:
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
34,085
Another vote for trusting Adam and seeing it in person to decide if it is the right OEC for you. It does look pretty in the video but as LLJsmom wrote you need to see it in many different environments and see it IRL to see if it is the one meant for you. Adam has a good eye and if he says this stone is a winner it is a stone worth looking at. Good luck!
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2012
Messages
9,537
It looks average in the photos but nice in the video. I'd say you would have to get it in person to determine if it's eye clean and you like the cut ie there are no dark dead patches or things about it that bother you.
 

junebug17

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jun 17, 2009
Messages
12,190
Not an expert at all, but I think it's pretty and has potential, and definitely worth taking a look. I've never worked with Adam but going by what I've read about him he wouldn't recommend a dud to you, he seems to have a great eye. Clarity is such a personal preference thing…my oec is an EGL SI2 and I can't see a blessed thing so I'm good with it - but some are concerned about mind-clean so it's an individual thing. And it's hard to predict if DSS will set in, this stone is certainly a great size though!
 

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
Hi everyone, thank you for the latest replies! I have worked the past two days and did not have the time to sit down and respond, so I apologize for the delay.

missy said:
Another vote for trusting Adam and seeing it in person to decide if it is the right OEC for you. It does look pretty in the video but as LLJsmom wrote you need to see it in many different environments and see it IRL to see if it is the one meant for you. Adam has a good eye and if he says this stone is a winner it is a stone worth looking at. Good luck!
Thank you, Missy! I've let Adam know that I would like to move ahead with the purchase, and I hope to have the stone in hand by next week after we work out the payment details. :) I will keep you all posted.

arkieb1 said:
It looks average in the photos but nice in the video. I'd say you would have to get it in person to determine if it's eye clean and you like the cut ie there are no dark dead patches or things about it that bother you.
Thank you for the honest feedback! I agree that the stone looks better in the video, though it is a bit hard to make out the details. In the photos, would you consider the darker areas under the table as a possible sign of obstruction, or is it hard to predict from these photos alone?

junebug17 said:
Not an expert at all, but I think it's pretty and has potential, and definitely worth taking a look. I've never worked with Adam but going by what I've read about him he wouldn't recommend a dud to you, he seems to have a great eye. Clarity is such a personal preference thing…my oec is an EGL SI2 and I can't see a blessed thing so I'm good with it - but some are concerned about mind-clean so it's an individual thing. And it's hard to predict if DSS will set in, this stone is certainly a great size though!
I appreciate you sharing your experience with your SI2 stone! :) I suppose I won't know if it is mindclean for me until I have the stone in my hand.
 

LawmaLlama

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
376
I'm no expert, but I looked up the GIA report and noticed the number of cavities and naturals along the perimeter. If you are having someone other than Adam set the diamond in a ring, that might be something to consider. You could ask his opinion on whether or not they weaken the girdle. If you are thinking of taking it to someone other than Adam, some jewelers may not want to take on the liability/possibility that the diamond might crack/chip during setting and it might be more difficult to find someone to set it.
 

blushpeony

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Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
LawmaLlama said:
I'm no expert, but I looked up the GIA report and noticed the number of cavities and naturals along the perimeter. If you are having someone other than Adam set the diamond in a ring, that might be something to consider. You could ask his opinion on whether or not they weaken the girdle. If you are thinking of taking it to someone other than Adam, some jewelers may not want to take on the liability/possibility that the diamond might crack/chip during setting and it might be more difficult to find someone to set it.
Thanks for your input, LawmaLlama! I did have the same reservations about the girdle, but Adam did not seem concerned when I asked about it. Perhaps I will double check with him, just in case. That is an interesting point regarding other jewelers being reluctant to set the stone. I planned on insuring the stone prior to it being set, if not set by OWD. Do you think that that would be sufficient enough for most jewelers to be willing to set the stone, if Adam says it should be fine?
 

LawmaLlama

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
376
1. You'll need to take a look at your insurance policy. Mine excludes coverage while my jewelry is in the hands of the jeweler (e.g. being repaired or worked on). This is common in policies I've seen.
2. Whether another jeweler will take on the risk of setting your stone will depend on the jeweler. For example, see the Whiteflash FAQS. If you buy a diamond elsewhere and ask them to set it, they require you to sign a waiver of liability.

I hope this helps.
 

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
So she's here, and she sure is beautiful. Adam was kind enough to set the stone in a 'temp' setting before it shipped, so that I could wear it around and get to know the stone before I made a decision. I am blown away by the faceting on this stone---she truly is a fireball, as Adam described her.

Having this stone in hand has reaffirmed a couple of things for me:
- I LOVE OECs.
- 8.5mm feels like just the right size for my lifestyle, and I do not envision needing to go bigger in the future (never say never though, I know).
- The GIA J color looks to be the sweet spot for me, though I could probably drop to a K, especially if it had some fluorescence.

The only issue with the stone is the white crystal right under the table. It is very difficult to spot in most lighting conditions at about 8inches away in the face-up view. However, in direct sunlight, it catches the light and becomes more noticeable. And I live in a very sunny locale...

I suspect that this would automatically make the stone a no-go for many PSers. I have several days to decide, and I am taking my time to see how 'mind-clean' this stone is for me.

In the meantime, I would love to hear your thoughts or any advice. I am curious to hear what you would personally consider mind-clean, as well.

Thank you all, and here are some pics (sorry for the poor picture quality):
fullsizerender_7_.jpg
fullsizerender_4_.jpg
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fullsizerender_8_.jpg
fullsizerender_5_.jpg
And finally, a few closeups that show the crystal (close to the culet around the 6 o'clock position) in direct sunlight:
fullsizerender_6_.jpg
fullsizerender_3_.jpg
 

Resonance.Of.Life

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
1,282
I love the faceting.. but only you will be the one wearing it. If the white inclusion bothers you now, it will always bother you..
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 14, 2014
Messages
2,369
That is one heck of a temporary setting!!
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
9,537
I tend to agree you need to ask yourself if you can live with the inclusion or not and go from there, sometimes it is a matter of a stone being mind clean as well.....
 

Hounddog

Brilliant_Rock
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Oct 7, 2015
Messages
582
I think that 'temporary' setting is great with your diamond, it's very kind of the vendor to set it for you.

I'm sorry that I can't offer any educated advice or opinions, but I do really like your diamond and I'm starting to LOVE OEC's, definitely on my wish list now.
I hope you are happy with whatever you decide and if it's not this one then I'm sure anther will be on its way for you.
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
713
To me, the stone is absolutely beautiful. If it's a fireball, even better. I love the faceting. I love the tiny crown. I love the size on you. I love the setting. The diamond looks stunning and huge on your hand.

I've been a lover of OECs for many years. I believe great faceting is rare. It is the most important thing. Your's has gorgeous faceting. My opinion about flaws is that in OECs the flaws are like birthmarks. If you can't see them easily, accept them and realize they are a unique part of a diamond crystal that was selected and cut by hand almost a hundred years ago. A cutter looked at that crystal, figured out how to place that inclusion, and cut a beautiful diamond.

Personally, I like inclusions (if minimal) because they help me identify my stone. I even like flea bitten girdles because they remind me of the diamond's age (I would never "clean up" an antique girdle). EG: I'm not a purist.

The standards of clarity set by Pricescope members are calibrated to today, when diamond crystal is relatively abundant, when cutting is mechanized and computerized and when excellent clarity is actually A CHOICE when you buy an excellent cut modern diamond.

IMO, If you find a beautifully cut, balanced, old cut glitter ball in a color and size you like with a nearly invisible inclusion (if it's priced according to grade): keep it, love it.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
10,525
I love the stone! I think it's gorgeous, and IMHO the faceting is amazing. I would 100% keep it, but definitely make sure you can live w. the inclusion. I think sometimes the "mind clean" thing is huge, and once you see a "problem" you cannot un-see it. Definitely keep us updated, but if I were you I'd 100% keep it :)
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,269
It's very pretty!! If you like how it performs and you are ok with the clarity, I would go for it. My gut says that you will be very happy with it. But it's your gut feeling that matters. ;-)

And I'm glad seeing it IRL confirms that you love OECs. They are truly a unique and special breed.
 

Hera

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,401
Pretty! Looks like it has some nice light return. In the initial pictures, the facets seem stuck together in twos rather than alternating but it doesn't appear to do that in your pics? Any issues in real life?
I don't think diamonds look that great in direct sunlight so I don't really look at mine closely that way. You might be different so this is a personal preference.
Would you be open to dropping in color to get a better selection?
 

AnnaH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
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Love the diamond and the setting. Don't think I would be bothered by the crystal, but you might feel differently. If so, you can keep looking. Nothing wrong with that.
 

acaw2015

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
763
Lovely stone and temp (!) setting! I am a sucker for clarity and would probably be bothered by this and want another stone. I realized this by owning a beautiful si1. That stone was eye clean in most lighting situations but not when light caught the stone from the side, aka sunset (or me being crazy and using a tiny led flash light). Bothered me enough that I always looked for the inclusions rather that looking at the lovely stone itself. I would only buy vs clarity nowadays. As most here have already posted you will have to decide if this bothers you or not. If it does then Im afraid that feeling will never go away. Best of luck! :wavey:
 

FightGravity

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
240
This inclusion wouldn't bother me. It looks gorgeous! (Great setting, too.)

But I think it might bother you. You're the only one who can know the answer to that one.
 

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
Resonance.Of.Life said:
I love the faceting.. but only you will be the one wearing it. If the white inclusion bothers you now, it will always bother you..
Hi, Resonance.Of.Life. Thank you for the input! I have been working the past couple of days and haven't been able to wear this ring around much during the daytime, so I guess I haven't figured out how much the white inclusion really bothers me. I will have a full day off tomorrow to figure it out. :)

ringo865 said:
That is one heck of a temporary setting!!
Thank you! Adam understood that I had a very limited budget for the setting, and I think he did a fabulous job picking this one out!

arkieb1 said:
I tend to agree you need to ask yourself if you can live with the inclusion or not and go from there, sometimes it is a matter of a stone being mind clean as well.....
I agree, even if the inclusion is very very hard to see (it took my rather eagle-eyed husband 30 minutes of me dragging him around in different lighting conditions for him to finally spot it), I will have to decide if it is mind clean enough for me...

Hounddog said:
I think that 'temporary' setting is great with your diamond, it's very kind of the vendor to set it for you.

I'm sorry that I can't offer any educated advice or opinions, but I do really like your diamond and I'm starting to LOVE OEC's, definitely on my wish list now.
I hope you are happy with whatever you decide and if it's not this one then I'm sure anther will be on its way for you.
Thank you, Hounddog! :)

LightBright said:
To me, the stone is absolutely beautiful. If it's a fireball, even better. I love the faceting. I love the tiny crown. I love the size on you. I love the setting. The diamond looks stunning and huge on your hand.

I've been a lover of OECs for many years. I believe great faceting is rare. It is the most important thing. Your's has gorgeous faceting. My opinion about flaws is that in OECs the flaws are like birthmarks. If you can't see them easily, accept them and realize they are a unique part of a diamond crystal that was selected and cut by hand almost a hundred years ago. A cutter looked at that crystal, figured out how to place that inclusion, and cut a beautiful diamond.

Personally, I like inclusions (if minimal) because they help me identify my stone. I even like flea bitten girdles because they remind me of the diamond's age (I would never "clean up" an antique girdle). EG: I'm not a purist.

The standards of clarity set by Pricescope members are calibrated to today, when diamond crystal is relatively abundant, when cutting is mechanized and computerized and when excellent clarity is actually A CHOICE when you buy an excellent cut modern diamond.

IMO, If you find a beautifully cut, balanced, old cut glitter ball in a color and size you like with a nearly invisible inclusion (if it's priced according to grade): keep it, love it.
I love your refreshing outlook on inclusions in these beautiful antique diamonds. Knowing myself, I feel that if I ultimately decided to keep the stone, I could end up finding the quirky little crystal rather charming. :)

lovedogs said:
I love the stone! I think it's gorgeous, and IMHO the faceting is amazing. I would 100% keep it, but definitely make sure you can live w. the inclusion. I think sometimes the "mind clean" thing is huge, and once you see a "problem" you cannot un-see it. Definitely keep us updated, but if I were you I'd 100% keep it :)
Thank you, lovedogs! I appreciate your input as always! :wavey:

LLJsmom said:
It's very pretty!! If you like how it performs and you are ok with the clarity, I would go for it. My gut says that you will be very happy with it. But it's your gut feeling that matters. ;-)

And I'm glad seeing it IRL confirms that you love OECs. They are truly a unique and special breed.
They really are, and I have to say that your stone is just one of the nicest ones out there! :)

Hera said:
Pretty! Looks like it has some nice light return. In the initial pictures, the facets seem stuck together in twos rather than alternating but it doesn't appear to do that in your pics? Any issues in real life?
I don't think diamonds look that great in direct sunlight so I don't really look at mine closely that way. You might be different so this is a personal preference.
Would you be open to dropping in color to get a better selection?
Hi Hera! It is hard for me to say if there are any issues in real life, because I am not very experienced at analyzing the faceting patterns in OECs. ::) All I can say is that it is really sparkly :lol: I took some quick photos of it last night with indoor lighting, if this helps.
fullsizerender_10_.jpg
fullsizerender_11_.jpg
Any thoughts, in regards to the issue you mentioned?
And yes, I would be open to dropping to a K in color if needed. :)

AnnaH said:
Love the diamond and the setting. Don't think I would be bothered by the crystal, but you might feel differently. If so, you can keep looking. Nothing wrong with that.
Hi AnnaH, thank you for your input! :wavey:

aca said:
Lovely stone and temp (!) setting! I am a sucker for clarity and would probably be bothered by this and want another stone. I realized this by owning a beautiful si1. That stone was eye clean in most lighting situations but not when light caught the stone from the side, aka sunset (or me being crazy and using a tiny led flash light). Bothered me enough that I always looked for the inclusions rather that looking at the lovely stone itself. I would only buy vs clarity nowadays. As most here have already posted you will have to decide if this bothers you or not. If it does then Im afraid that feeling will never go away. Best of luck! :wavey:
aca, I really appreciate your honest feedback, and thank you for sharing your own experience with your SI clarity stone! This is my first time owning a diamond this low in clarity, so I really do not know what to think of it yet. Lol, I've definitely done the tiny led flash light thing already, and it hasn't swayed me one way or the other yet.

FightGravity said:
This inclusion wouldn't bother me. It looks gorgeous! (Great setting, too.)

But I think it might bother you. You're the only one who can know the answer to that one.
Thank you, FightGravity! I will keep everyone posted on what I decide in the next couple of days!
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
34,085
LOVE this OEC. :love: It has great faceting. I have mind clean issues re clarity. If you can see the inclusion with your naked eye now in much of the lighting environments I would be cautious because you will start noticing it more not less probably. So yes wear it around everywhere and see what you think. Because if it doesn't bother you than it is a winner. It looks beautiful.

However only you know if it is going to annoy you or not annoy you. I know me and I know for me VS clarity where I couldn't see any inclusions with my naked eye was critical. BUT there is no right or wrong and it is like personal birthmark and some people embrace a small (white) inclusion that is hard to see as a way to mark their stone as their own so it could work for you if that is how you view it and it doesn't bother you. I do think this is a gorgeous OEC. :love:

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as you get to "know" the many moods and appearances of your potential OEC. :appl:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
I also have mind clean issues regarding clarity and personally wouldn't consider an SI2 in a stone that size, especially in an OEC with larger facets. The other issue is that if you ever decided to sell it, it likely would be harder to sell than a 100% eyeclean stone. But the number one thing to me is that you haven't really seen many (or any?) OECs before this one, right? If so, I think you would greatly benefit from seeing a few more before deciding. I know people who have had Adam (or others) send them multiple stones before making a decision. I think J color is a great choice, but if higher clarity makes the price jump too much, you can go to K VS.

I would be sure to keep returning the stones within whatever the return period is, because you never know when someone like Grace or Erica will get in the perfect stone, also. I know of someone who got locked in by keeping a stone too long because the vendor said to just wear it while he continued looking for a stone for her, and that basically locked her in and she couldn't look elsewhere.

Take your time. See more stones. They each have their own personality and all are unique. You will then feel more confident when you do finally choose "the one"!
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
34,085
DS, just so you know Adam wouldn't do that. He is very upfront and will spell it out clearly and wouldn't trick anyone into having to keep the stone. He just doesn't operate that way. Not just my experience but everyone's experience that I know of so far. He will bend over backwards for you to get your dream stone and wouldn't trick or force you into keeping a diamond you didn't love. He doesn't operate the way most vendors do IMO.

As an example when I took Bea home he said take my time and if I change my mind for any reason bring her back and he wouldn't sell my previous ER that I traded in for Bea till I called him and said ok I'm for sure keeping Bea. And I'm not the only person he told something similar to re their purchases.
 

blushpeony

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
112
missy said:
LOVE this OEC. :love: It has great faceting. I have mind clean issues re clarity. If you can see the inclusion with your naked eye now in much of the lighting environments I would be cautious because you will start noticing it more not less probably. So yes wear it around everywhere and see what you think. Because if it doesn't bother you than it is a winner. It looks beautiful.

However only you know if it is going to annoy you or not annoy you. I know me and I know for me VS clarity where I couldn't see any inclusions with my naked eye was critical. BUT there is no right or wrong and it is like personal birthmark and some people embrace a small (white) inclusion that is hard to see as a way to mark their stone as their own so it could work for you if that is how you view it and it doesn't bother you. I do think this is a gorgeous OEC. :love:

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts as you get to "know" the many moods and appearances of your potential OEC. :appl:
diamondseeker2006 said:
I also have mind clean issues regarding clarity and personally wouldn't consider an SI2 in a stone that size, especially in an OEC with larger facets. The other issue is that if you ever decided to sell it, it likely would be harder to sell than a 100% eyeclean stone. But the number one thing to me is that you haven't really seen many (or any?) OECs before this one, right? If so, I think you would greatly benefit from seeing a few more before deciding. I know people who have had Adam (or others) send them multiple stones before making a decision. I think J color is a great choice, but if higher clarity makes the price jump too much, you can go to K VS.

I would be sure to keep returning the stones within whatever the return period is, because you never know when someone like Grace or Erica will get in the perfect stone, also. I know of someone who got locked in by keeping a stone too long because the vendor said to just wear it while he continued looking for a stone for her, and that basically locked her in and she couldn't look elsewhere.

Take your time. See more stones. They each have their own personality and all are unique. You will then feel more confident when you do finally choose "the one"!
Thank you both so much for weighing in regarding this stone---I definitely value your expertise! I hadn't thought about the impact of the low clarity in terms of being able to sell this stone in the future, if the need ever arose (not that I'm planning on selling it).

I spent some more time getting to know this beautiful stone and was still having a hard time shaking the 'mind clean' issue...

So after careful consideration, I decided to ship the stone and setting back to Adam today. I know whoever snaps up that stone will be as equally charmed by its stunning faceting, if the crystal does not bother them.

In its place, I will be getting a 2.54ct GIA K VSI that will be set into the same setting. I wasn't able to have both stones in hand to compare, but Adam says it is a very white facing K and that the cut is definitely on par with the 2.47ct stone. I should be receiving the new stone by this Friday, so please stay tuned. :)
I truly truly appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and help me with this decision! :wavey:

Here is the video of the new stone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUMy9xF8im8
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
If it was my primary ring the inclusion would bother me.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
34,085
Thank you for the update blushpeony and I hope the new OEC is perfect for you.The video looks good. Cannot wait for you to get it and hear your thoughts. :appl: And VS1 is my personal sweet spot. :love:
 
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