shape
carat
color
clarity

Please recommend which diamond to purchase

master1982

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
2
Hi,

Please kindly provide some advice for choosing between two diamonds, thanks.


Diamond#1:

HCA Score: 1.9

GIA certified and laser inscribed
6.70-6.71 x 4.18mm
Round Brilliant
1.15 carat
E color
VVS2
Cut: EX
Polish: EX
Symmetry: EX
Fluorescence : None

Table: 56%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown height: 15%
Crown angle: 34.5
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Pavillion Angle: 41
Girdle: 3.5% medium to slightly thick
Star: 50%
Lower half: 80%
Cutlet: None

Price: AUS $16,000



Diamond#2

HCA Score: 1.3

GIA certified and laser inscribed
6.60-6.61 x 4.10mm
Round Brilliant
1.10 carat
E color
VVS2
Cut: EX
Polish: EX
Symmetry: EX
Fluorescence : None

Table: 56%
Depth: 62.1%
Crown height: 15%
Crown angle: 34.5
Pavilion Depth: 43%
Pavillion Angle: 40.8
Girdle: 4% medium to slightly thick
Star: 50%
Lower half: 75%
Cutlet: None

Price: AUS $15,400

These 2 diamonds are currently overseas, I have not yet seen them. The retailer will ship them over in 10 days if I pay a deposit. So the only thing I have now is the GIA certificate and its data. Please give me some advice, thank you.
 

04diamond<3

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
3,672
I guess it'd depend on your personal taste and how nice you think they look in person. Are you open to other suggestions? I just feel that you're paying too much for the color and clarity. Here are some things I found - and if you're stuck on these two stones, then feel free to disregard this.

Dropping the clarity to a VS2 saves you about 6k. Still eye clean and a hearts and arrow:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.15-carat-F-color-VS2-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-107870

Going to a G is still pretty white, and also dropping to a VS1 will also give you savings:
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.09-carat-G-color-VS1-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-164367

Again a G, but looks pretty white face up, and a VS2 (still eye clean) you can get a bigger stone and still be a lot less that what you have posted.
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.22-carat-G-color-VS2-clarity-Ideal-cut-sku-73772

These all have ideal scope images (images that show us how well the stone performs, the cut, and if there's light leakage etc), and they're all AGS 0 graded which is excellent!! Up to you, but I'd rather buy either of these stones than either of the two you posted. PS- if you want, you could go a hair lower in color, still get an ideal stone. One more example supporting this:

This I faces up pretty white (you'd only see it from the side view), scored a 1.3 on the HCA. If you like this one, I'd put it on hold and request an ideal scope image for it.
http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.58-carat-I-color-VS1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-96658
 

master1982

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
2
another question, if the girdle is 4%, does it affect the validity of HCA scores?

If you were to choose a diamond, would you choose a 3.5% over a 4% girdle diamond?

75% lower half worse than 80%?

My fiancee only wants a VVS level diamond and not lower than a E, I have no choice.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
master1982|1362047579|3392487 said:
another question, if the girdle is 4%, does it affect the validity of HCA scores?

If you were to choose a diamond, would you choose a 3.5% over a 4% girdle diamond?

75% lower half worse than 80%?

My fiancee only wants a VVS level diamond and not lower than a E, I have no choice.

Weight can be hidden in the girdle so I would only consider stones that have no more than a slightly thick girdle for a RB. GIA lists the thinnest and thickest part of the girdle on the report, it's possible that a medium-very thick girdle only has a very tiny area that is VTHK and the rest is medium...or vice versa, it's important to have the gemologist review this for you if you are concerned. The stones you listed are likely not a problem.

If this is your first diamond purchase the it's unlikely that you will be able to appreciate the slight differences in LGF lengths. 75% will give slightly bolder flashes, and 80% a bit more splintery, but IRL the differences are probably quite difficult for the average viewer to see. The arrows will appear a bit fatter in a 75% than at 80% but again IRL you won't see the arrows patterning unless you are in the right lighting and looking for them....and it's unlikely you would you see the difference without a side by side comparison.

Why does your gf want such high clarity? Does she realize that she could have a perfectly eye clean top quality stone at the VS level? Has she seen a GIA AGS E beside a G to determine if she can see the difference? Many many people can't!

I'm wondering if your gf is like many who assume that the higher the color/clarity combo the beautiful the stone will be. This is a popular tactic used by many big box BM stores. They dumb down the issue of cut because it's harder for consumers to understand, but I can assure you that if your gf wants a high quality stone that will sparkle like nothing else, it's NOT the color and clarity that she needs to focus on but the CUT. I've owned both a VVS1 and an SI...I can tell you that there is no visible difference between the two with my naked eye in the setting. She could get a much larger stone that will be visually identical to the colorless VVS stone that she wants...
 

04diamond<3

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
3,672
master1982|1362047579|3392487 said:
another question, if the girdle is 4%, does it affect the validity of HCA scores?

If you were to choose a diamond, would you choose a 3.5% over a 4% girdle diamond?

75% lower half worse than 80%?

My fiancee only wants a VVS level diamond and not lower than a E, I have no choice.

I don't believe that. I still think you're over paying. Here's something else I found. A good compromise. F (which is right next to E) and a "VS" 1...

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.28-carat-F-color-VS1-clarity-Excellent-cut-sku-201104

and it's less than the options you have. I just don't believe in over spending for something especially a diamond if you don't have to.
 

tarung81

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
9
Hi,

I actually believe the retailer should at least provide you a decent diamond image or (if you can get) the ASET image of the diamond. I think you deserve to see the diamond which you are going pay substantial sum of money for! I also don't trust the HCA score as in my experience I have seen diamonds which had an excellent HCA score, but "so-so" overall look in terms of fire & brilliance, while other times I have seen diamonds with "OK" HCA scores, but truly have "wow" factor! A great article which explains the HCA score is here at http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/AConsumersGuidetotheHCA/

Also, other factors I will consider is where the inclusions are located for both diamond options and what type they are. From the certificate you can see the type of inclusions - e.g. crystal, feather & where they are located. However, it doesn't tell you the color of the inclusions... Some crystals can be black or white or gray in color, which reduces the price, especially if they are located under the table... Also, some are transparent and can be on the sides, these stones will always sell more in premium price... The color of inclusions can only be provided by the retailer, so I recommend for you ask!!! Yes, both diamonds clarity is VVS2, so it won't be a "huge" factor, however, if you do somehow find "a negative" you can negotiate for a lower price or find a better diamond! :)

Finally, the price you are actually paying for both diamonds is definitely in the steeper end. The Rapaport price list (the diamond traders' price list) for this grade --- 1.00 carats to 1.49 carats, E-color, VVS2-clarity --- is US$14,200 or around AUD $13,900 per carat. Therefore, if you do acquire these diamonds at exactly the price list cost the total cost will be around AUD $15,290 for 1.10cts or AUD$15,985 for 1.15cts, which is exactly what you stated above.

However, for this carat weight of around 1.10 to 1.15 carats, we usually don't consider this the "premium" size range in our trade. Premium sizes are closer to 1.30 to 1.49 range .... Also, for higher color grade (E-color) and higher clarity grade of VVS2, I also expect slightly more discounts... Again the rule for this is, if the color is higher and clarity higher then the diamond price list for these diamonds are already high so you can push for slightly more discounts... However, if you going for D-color IF-clarity that is different story all together! :)

Therefore, taking into account all these factors and even the Triple Excellent Make and None fluorescence, I think you should strive to get discount rate from price list of at least 10% to 15%, even at the retail end.... This means, assuming you do get a 10% discount from Rapaport price list, I don't think you should pay more then AUD$13,760 for 1.10cts or AUD$14,390 for 1.15cts.

So, I do suggest to try negotiate with this retailer or shop around some more! You will definitely get a lot diamond options in this carat weight, color and clarity range!

Cheers,
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,852
Christina...|1362049842|3392493 said:
master1982|1362047579|3392487 said:
another question, if the girdle is 4%, does it affect the validity of HCA scores?

If you were to choose a diamond, would you choose a 3.5% over a 4% girdle diamond?

75% lower half worse than 80%?

My fiancee only wants a VVS level diamond and not lower than a E, I have no choice.

Why does your gf want such high clarity? Does she realize that she could have a perfectly eye clean top quality stone at the VS level? Has she seen a GIA AGS E beside a G to determine if she can see the difference? Many many people can't!
my guess is that she is Chinese... ;)) Chinese people prefer high color + high clarity.
 
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