large culet in OEC

[jeweln]

HI old cut lovers ,
I blame PS ,I am juggling several projects in my head at the same time !

I was looking at GOG 'S collection of AVR's , from their AGS reports seems there are some stones with pointed culets and some with large .
which one is better ? does having a large culet affect the light return ? will it affect the price of the diamond ? when you look into a diamond with a large culet ,is the eye drawn to the "hole" in the middle ?

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

Hey there.jeweln. I'm looking at buying an AVR and this thread helped with the the kozibe effect and culet. https://www.pricescope.com/communit...unds-oec-owners-kozibe-other-question.173360/

 

[jeweln]

YayTacori,
thanks for the link .although I still could not understand the benefit of the large culet .I think personally I would prefer a pointed one .
by the way I am waiting for your reviews & pics on the AVR you will be getting soon !

 

[elliemay]

HI old cut lovers ,
I blame PS ,I am juggling several projects in my head at the same time !

I was looking at GOG 'S collection of AVR's , from their AGS reports seems there are some stones with pointed culets and some with large .
which one is better ? does having a large culet affect the light return ? will it affect the price of the diamond ? when you look into a diamond with a large culet ,is the eye drawn to the "hole" in the middle ?

I think culet size is really a personal preference. For me, personally, in a stone over 1/2 a carat, yes, my eye goes straight to a noticeable culet and I don't really *love* that look. I know others seek out the larger culets, though, because that's what they like.

I don't really see the point of an old cut stone with *no* culet -- even the smallest culet is part of the charm.

In my own stone (a tranny), the culet isn't noticeable to the naked eye unless you really get down in there and look but it's there under the loupe (though still really tiny!), and that's somehow comforting for me.

I suppose if you type all the info into the HCA, the culet percentage might make a difference all other things being equal, but I really feel that old cuts, in general (as opposed to AVRs specifically because they're cut with more precision than "old" old cuts) are best judged by eye because they each have their own personalities -- you'll just find yourself drawn to some stones over others.

 

[jeweln]

elliemay,
that was exactly what I was thinking ! when I look into an OEC with a large culet ,my eyes will be drawn to it and I would not like it !

I am looking to buy 1 ct or less old cut stone in the next few months but I am not sure which .I love perfect optics that's why I am considering an AVR .on the other hand I love a transitional cut with a checkerboard faceting & small culet but I am afraid the light return will not be as good as the AVR ,plus old stones have wonky symmetry and thin girdles .I can't decide what to get !

 

[elliemay]

elliemay,
that was exactly what I was thinking ! when I look into an OEC with a large culet ,my eyes will be drawn to it and I would not like it !

I am looking to buy 1 ct or less old cut stone in the next few months but I am not sure which .I love perfect optics that's why I am considering an AVR .on the other hand I love a transitional cut with a checkerboard faceting & small culet but I am afraid the light return will not be as good as the AVR ,plus old stones have wonky symmetry and thin girdles .I can't decide what to get !

Just try to see as many stones as you can and I'm sure the right one will come along!

It sounds like we have similar tastes in old cuts -- small culets with as much symmetry as possible. I was very lucky to literally stumble across my stone on eBay (seriously, l-u-c-k-y. I had no idea what I was doing - and still don't! - and could've ended up with a real dud) and it meets my criteria for a small culet, nice symmetry, and a solid girdle (I think mine's medium to slightly thick?). It doesn't come back with the best HCA score, but it sparkles like mad and throws so much colour around! Here's a bigger pic -- if I get a chance (and decent sunlight!) at the weekend I'll do a video to show the sparkle.



My point is, the right stone will find its way to you --- whether you find it or it finds you! Plus you have the benefit of the expert (i.e., not me!) PSers to help you and it sounds like you're taking your time with your search, as opposed to me -- I just showed up here with a bad eBay picture from a listing I'd already won!

 

[jeweln]

I love your diamond and would dearly like to win one like it ! but I am thinking of all the risks involved & the duds that I may get !
maybe I will ask the old cut lovers to help me find a beautiful tranny after all .

 

[kathley]

Hi jeweln. I too was looking for the perfect old cut stone that met all of my criteria similar to yours. My biggest suggestion to you would be to look at several old cuts if you can in person. I was targeting OEC's and I looked at many. It was frustrating to me because in pictures, the stones looked great. But in person, they had no life! It got to the point where I would insist on a video of the stone to try and grasp performance. Perhaps you might want to do that as well in your search. A PS'er told me that "cut is king" and that is so true! As far as culet size goes, my preference was on the smaller than larger size. Looking at magnified photos of stones w/culets was daunting as I was worried if I could see the culet and if it would bother me. I was extremely fortunate to find the perfect OEC which also happened to show an excellent HCA score as well when I plugged in the parameters. I can say even though my OEC has a culet, in person I cannot easily see it through all of the fire and scintillation going on! The posting of my ring is [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-jbeg-oec-bauble.173842/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-jbeg-oec-bauble.173842/[/URL]

The right old cut is out there for you - it is all about personal preference. The old cut PS experts here can help guide you to the perfect stone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Regarding AVR's, the size of the culet has nothing at all to do with the price of the diamond. They are well cut and the culet is personal preference. I could actually go either way as I like them with or without. If you find one that has a pointed culet, then you can always have Jon have the culet facet cut for you if you prefer it.

I really love AVR's because they are so perfectly cut and I am afraid that finding an OEC that would meet my cut, color, and clarity requirements would be like looking for a needle in a haystack! That is why I prefer AVR's IF they have the specs you are looking for. They have had very few in my preferred range of 1.5-1.75 carats, unfortunately.

 

[Rhino]

Greetings PS peeps,

Just a few comments.

The culets you see in the larger AVR's are not so large that the eye is drawn to them or detracts. In every one I have examined it's more of an afterthought like ... oh yea ... this one has a culet too. Last thing to worry about.

The HCA is NULL AND VOID when it comes to OEC's and generally any kind of round diamond that is not a "traditional" round according to today's cutting with 57 facets. Particularly when lower half length is less than 75% and the mains comprise the primary reflections under the table. You will be falsely led to believe something is horribly wrong with the diamond if you use the HCA for OEC's.

What kathley said regarding OEC's and photography couldn't be more true and has been my experience over the decades as well. If you are trying to judge optics of an OEC by photography, no way. I've said it in the past and this same truth applies not only to OEC's but also OMB's as well as just about any other shape and that is ... "Photography is fine for seeing the facet structure of a diamond but impossible for judging the actual characteristics of brightness, contrast, leakage, fire & sparkle." I've seen some very beautiful photography of butt ugly diamonds. A thorough optical examination is key. At the very least an ASET exam.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

 

[jeweln]

Hi DS ,
like you I love AVR's for their perfect optics ,but I can't seem to find the perfect color/clarity in my budget .I am looking at lower colors J/K/L + lower clarity eye clean SI1/SI2 .most of the lower color AVR's have high clarity .plus I love the checkerboard faceting more than the flower one .do you think in 0.75 -0.85 ct range the faceting will show clearly ?

 

[jeweln]

Hi Rino,

Good thing to know that large culets are not bad to look at ,
Thanks for the feedback .

 

[Rhino]

It's no prob. Just an FYI more AVR's are being cut as I type.

 

[elliemay]

Where do you live, jeweln? Maybe you could pop in to GOG to look at their AVRs in person?

Someone brought up a good point earlier in the thread-- if you find an AVR that you like that doesn't have a culet, you could always ask them to cut one into the stone and specify how large/small you'd like it to be!

Greetings PS peeps,

...The HCA is NULL AND VOID when it comes to OEC's...

I hope my earlier post didn't imply that the HCA should be used in choosing an old cut -- quite the opposite -- I truly do believe that old cuts should be chosen based on their own individual characteristics and not by the numbers. I was just saying that sure, a larger/smaller culet might have an impact on the light return from a technical/numbers standpoint, but it really is down to what you see and how you feel about a stone rather than what the numbers say re: old cuts.

 

[kefira]

I like a visible culet, personally, but not overly large. My ering's diamond had a pretty tiny culet, but GIA calls it medium, so be aware of whose parameters you might be looking at, if you buy online. The blown up shots can definitely be misleading. I like my rock even though I'd like a slightly larger culet. I can always save that for the upgrade (in 10 years...).

Here's a shot of my medium culet. I think most would consider it quite small, as it's not noticeable when I'm wearing the ring. Sorry for the crappy phone pic!

 

[jeweln]

Kefira & kathely ,

your rings are gorgeous !
Great to hear more AVR's are being cut ! I hope I can find one in my budget & specifications . I am waiting for summer to start several projects .

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi DS ,
like you I love AVR's for their perfect optics ,but I can't seem to find the perfect color/clarity in my budget .I am looking at lower colors J/K/L + lower clarity eye clean SI1/SI2 .most of the lower color AVR's have high clarity .plus I love the checkerboard faceting more than the flower one .do you think in 0.75 -0.85 ct range the faceting will show clearly ?

The only ones I have seen were .60 and that is getting into the range that you have to really look closely to see the pattern. But I would think once you get up to the .80 range you'd be able to see it a little better.

Glad to hear more are being cut and hope you'll find what you're looking for!