Question for The Natural Sapphire Company

[LD]

I am a previous customer of yours and I'm also not a new poster. I have no axe to grind.

I asked a polite question in another thread and I would appreciate a reply and have done as you asked and opened a new thread so that your ex-employee does not get more air time:

1. Do you photoshop your images - yes/no

2. If yes - why?

3. There is evidence that photos of pairs on your website were one stone rotated to make it appear that there were two different gems. Please could you comment on that?

4. Do you superimpost asterisms on star sapphires please and if so, why?

We accept that in some instances it is acceptable to photoshop to clearly represent the gem to correlate to what you see. Some gemstones are frighteningly difficult to capture accurately. Nobody on this forum would complain about that. What we have an issue with is photoshopping to make a gem appear something it's not.

I would appreciate your comments Evan.

 

[minousbijoux]

I'll add that Evan, if you are not technically the correct person in the company to respond to our concerns, we expect (polite request) that you forward our concern to the appropriate party for a response. There have been many comments about the The Natural Sapphire Company Photoshopping images. There have been many PS members who have had disappointments with The Natural Sapphire Company, and there are many members who have returned items to The Natural Sapphire Company because they were not what they seemed. The more these issues and concerns go unanswered, the more threads and comments there are, and the more negative hits regard The Natural Sapphire Company there are. It would be unfortunate for someone to google The Natural Sapphire Company and see so much discussion about misrepresented stones and/or photoshopped images.

For clarification purposes, I too have been a PS member for a while and this issue is the first time I have posted regarding The Natural Sapphire Company - and I hope it will be the last.

 

[VapidLapid]

Photoshop is a useful tool. Some photo software program needs to be used just to get the picture out of the camera and size it for use. Photoshop is a very good program, the industry standard. From its inception photography has been a medium for manipulating fakery to pass for reality. The unapologetic misrepresentation (in your favor) of your stones in the images on your website is the issue.

I have some empathy for your position with your ex employee and the axe he is grinding. That is a separate issue. I do hope you get that straightened out. Obviously that injustice is not going to distract us from an injustice that many here feel was perpetrated by your company.

Your stars are painted on. Side by side comparisons of your pictures of your star stones with and without asterism are pixel by pixel perfect matches excepting for the star. Surely with a pinpoint light source added to reveal the star, the surrounding areas would have some slight modification in tone or exposure or anything but definitely not match each and every pixel for hue tone color saturation and brightness. Why do you feel the need to misrepresent your merchandise? Please dont be nasty to us again because you've been found out again. Untreated sapphires are well regarded in this forum, yet nsc is not. How can a company be ok with making a mistake like that in the 21st century?

 

[vintagelover229]

For the NSC reading pleasure here is a 9 page thread (FYI it was started by a real PSer NOT the disgruntled employee so according to your response it should be in line with being on the approved thread list for NSC)
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unscrupulous-scandalous-status-quo.137658/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/unscrupulous-scandalous-status-quo.137658/[/URL]

I hope someone comes and answers these questions for us. CS gets a LOT of sapphire traffic (and thanks to Kate's sapphire ring it will get more I'm sure) and there is over a 12 page thread helping someone find vendors, source and feedback in regards to a very nice sapphire ring with custom setting being done to show that PS has a LOT of influence and has helped many happy sapphire e-ring hunters spend tons of mullah on sapphires NOT from your company. PS informs the good, the bad and the ugly and has helped bring to light many new artists (JKT anyone?) a lot of new custom work and increasing their traffic. It would only HELP your company to come out and be honest about if and why you photo shop. I've seen a lot of beautiful sapphires on your site but because of all the unanswered questions and issues I wouldn't recommend your company to anyone with a ten foot pole. I'd direct them to someone like concave gems or Richard wise and then over to JBEG or SK for a custom setting (and when people come here posting questions about stones from the NSC we link them RIGHT to these threads that are filled with all the unanswered questions the experts (and non experts) have. Then they can make the decision from there (which usually leads them to another vendor for their sapphire project. Not always, but often.)

 

[Barrett]

I am glad Vapid posted since she has ..what was it a degree in photography or worked as a pro photographer? Adds some credence to the claims when she points out or post about something. Yes, NSC please take the time and address some of the questions above....

 

[LD]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

 

[vintagelover229]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

Agreed! The only people they are hurting are themselves. There is going to be a lot of sapphire traffic over the next few years and I'm sure quite a few of them will find there way over here and AWAY from the NSC. There are way to many nice sapphires that also have great sellers and companies to back them to recommend the NSC. I'm sure they aren't worried about it though, they must just count on one purchase and not repeat customer business to keep them afloat.

 

[E B]

They weren't professional or honest the last time they were confronted about photoshopping. How many more chances do they deserve? Their FAQ still reads (as of Monday, April 18, 2011):

Our Media Imaging Guarantee
We are a third generation family business. Since 1939 we have been trading in the finest sapphires available. We pride ourselves on offering a truly rare and valuable product to all of our customers.

It is certainly understandable to be concerned with the accuracy of the color and clarity of an item when shopping online. We use very advanced photography to capture a stone’s true color properties. What you see online is extremely accurate imaging. Our photography, video and scanning technology is never altered to falsely show the true properties of an item.

Why not have them removed from the 'Sites Selling Colored Gemstones' list?

 

[Pandora II]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

I think if we don't get answers that this thread should perhaps become a sticky at the top of the page. The issue and the NSC's response or lack of is IMO unacceptable.

On the other hand, perhaps they didn't see the thread yet - maybe someone should link them to it from their page on a certain social networking site...

 

[LD]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

I think if we don't get answers that this thread should perhaps become a sticky at the top of the page. The issue and the NSC's response or lack of is IMO unacceptable.

On the other hand, perhaps they didn't see the thread yet - maybe someone should link them to it from their page on a certain social networking site...

I absolutely agree and will ask whether this can become a sticky and if they can be removed from the "Sites selling coloured gemstones" sticky.

If anybody uses the social networking site (I don't) could they please link them to this thread? Many thanks

 

[T L]

Isn't NSC just so predictable?

 

[TravelingGal]

Isn't NSC just so predictable?

TL, using euphemisms today?

 

[T L]

Okay, how about this. They remind me of small children that fight. One child says, "he hit me, and I want him punished," but at the same time, that same child started the hitting. They whine and complain when they are treated unfairly, but as soon as someone asks them some legitimate questions, they run off and behind their "we've been open for 70 years" motto. Obviously, it is not the same company that it was 70, 50, or even 20 years ago, so if you want to maintain a good reputation, stop acting immature and unprofessional. It's a shame that management is often inherited, rather than earned through hard work, in some cases. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

 

[TravelingGal]

Okay, how about this. They remind me of small children that fight. One child says, "he hit me, and I want him punished," but at the same time, that same child started the hitting. They whine and complain when they are treated unfairly, but as soon as someone asks them some legitimate questions, they run off and behind their "we've been open for 70 years" motto. Obviously, it is not the same company that it was 70, 50, or even 20 years ago, so if you want to maintain a good reputation, stop acting immature and unprofessional. It's a shame that management is often inherited, rather than earned through hard work, in some cases. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.

That was so much more interesting to read than "predictable." Well done.

I personally would have just said their behavior "sucks"...but that really isn't much better than small children behavior, so I didn't. I actually tried not to get too involved in the threads this time, hoping for some answers and less whining, but I guess that didn't happen.

Maybe in the spirit of CS, I can say I always see NSC has brown modifiers? Bullsh*t will do that to ya....

 

[T L]

My comments are not meant to discredit the quality of their material, or the sales people that work hard for them, but the upper management certainly needs their hand slapped with a ruler. I suspect there are some very rude arrogant people at the top over there, and unfortunately, it can work it's way down the ladder. It's a shame, as they are a source for natural untreated sapphires. A lot of companies work very hard for their reputations, and it's a shame really.

 

[VapidLapid]

SInce they havent changed any, and surely no one really expected them to, there is nothing new in this whole story. Cant we just make fun of them? On their website there is a section about "the company" and in that an "in the press" section. Livia is speaking to cnn with a tray of derivative rings in her hand. she says,

"This is a really lovely in terms of the size and the shape of the stone, a beautiful, oval, blue sapphire, 16 carats, so this would be about the same size of the Kate Middleton's ring "

Interviewer: "what is the cost of one of these rings?"

Livia: "Well they can range from 60,000 for lighter color stones, to over 200,000 for deeper color blue sapphires, in gemmology, in gemmological terms, the deeper the blue the more desirable .

Oh them crazee gemmologists and their technical jargon!





edited 4 spelin

 

[Barrett]

"Oh them crazee gemmologists and their technical jargon!"
LOLOLOLOLOL Made me crack up, Vapid..LOL

 

[VapidLapid]

I know, Edward. And you know I admire what you do, and what your company is about. Thank you.

 

[T L]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

I think if we don't get answers that this thread should perhaps become a sticky at the top of the page. The issue and the NSC's response or lack of is IMO unacceptable.

On the other hand, perhaps they didn't see the thread yet - maybe someone should link them to it from their page on a certain social networking site...

I absolutely agree and will ask whether this can become a sticky and if they can be removed from the "Sites selling coloured gemstones" sticky.

If anybody uses the social networking site (I don't) could they please link them to this thread? Many thanks

On a side note, the recommended vendor list really needs to be updated. For example, Jeff Graham of facetors.com, died a while ago, and yet it is still a recommended site. There are some additions that should be made as well as deletions. I would also put a disclaimer on there that these vendors have been recommended by PS'ers, but one should always do their homework, and be careful when buying gems from any vendor.

 

[VapidLapid]

What a real shame that despite Evan stating that he would answer questions if a separate thread were started ............. NSC is (again) refusing to discuss customer's / potential customers concerns in a reasonable way that could create an informed debate.

For me, this is the real reason why customers are put off buying from NSC. They need to have an open and honest two way communication - not have everything their way. A company should treat customers with respect or they will choose to draw from the silence their own conclusions.

I think if we don't get answers that this thread should perhaps become a sticky at the top of the page. The issue and the NSC's response or lack of is IMO unacceptable.

On the other hand, perhaps they didn't see the thread yet - maybe someone should link them to it from their page on a certain social networking site...

I absolutely agree and will ask whether this can become a sticky and if they can be removed from the "Sites selling coloured gemstones" sticky.

If anybody uses the social networking site (I don't) could they please link them to this thread? Many thanks

On a side note, the recommended vendor list really needs to be updated. For example, Jeff Graham of facetors.com, died a while ago, and yet it is still a recommended site. There are some additions that should be made as well as deletions. I would also put a disclaimer on there that these vendors have been recommended by PS'ers, but one should always do their homework, and be careful when buying gems from any vendor.

Completely agree with this. I dont think we should take up deleting resources as though we were a punitive body, but as TL says there are both deletions and additions to be made. While Jeff Graham is gone his website is still around. Though the stones are no longer available (Where did that inventory go, I mean really I want to know) the site is still a great resource of information. Other sites on the list aren't even vendors! and there are quite a few vendors and favored cutters who are absent.

 

[maebelle]

+1 As someone who is relatively new, I know I took one look at the list and ignored it, since it seemed so out of date.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I agree about updating the vendor list. However, previous experience has taught us that the NSC does not respond to any questions about their photography, so it is highly unlikely that they will even acknowledge this thread. And if they do, it will be a roundabout reply with no true answer - just like before.

I haven't been to CS in many months because it tends to be a temptation I don't need. The last time I was here was when that 9 page thread got started about the photoshopping. The first time I come back, I see that the NSC has been brought up again, and again for something bad. I think that's a sign of their bad business practices.

 

[Arcadian]

I'm really not surprised that NSC never came back to answer anything in this thread. Par for the course with them.

I've always said that list needed to be updated. I hope that it is. I would also love if there were a list of websites for colored stone information too. There's a wealth of information on the internet, but it would be nice if there was a sticky thread with those links in it.

-A

 

[minousbijoux]

Its interesting to note that as a fairly new participant I too did not use the list, but relied on what was said in various threads...the cream rises to the surface pretty quickly if you read in CS for a while.

 

[Gailey]

Anybody looked at the pairs recently? Vapid? Anyone?

 

[VapidLapid]

Funny that you would ask, Gailey.
I had not looked at their pairs,
or anything of theirs
in nearly a year.

But since you asked
I went and looked
to see if their,
pairs are still cooked

The chef is busy
with a new deceit
the pairs still match,
like a rotating cheat

but with unequal side views
their subterfuge is fleet
as if all were on a level
though their ethics sport a bevel

 

[FrekeChild]

I hate this topic. I hate that they photoshop/rotate the same stone. This is such BS!!!!!!!!

 

[Gailey]

What on earth do they take us for?

 

[MonkeyPie]

What on earth do they take us for?

They assume that because they still get business, that we won't make an impact on them by complaining. Apparently that is truly the case, since it's been ages since this was discovered and they are still going at it.

 

[T L]

Recently I saw a consumer complaint site that was linking to PS about NSC's photoshopping issues. They were an unhappy customer, and wanted to place their complaints on that site. They complained of getting a sapphire that looked nothing like the photos.