The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompany.co

[davidsmith_35]

About a week back a mail mysteriously appeared in my mail box from someone claiming to be NSC ex-employee from its media department. The mailer thanked me for bring to light the dodgy tactics used by NSC through the blog post
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/natural-sapphire-company-photoshoped-images.157769/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/natural-sapphire-company-photoshoped-images.157769/[/URL]
Attached with the e-mail were some examples of how through photo shop The natural Sapphire Company is converting its low cost cabochons into expensive star sapphires
First I decided to find out if it is really from Natural sapphire company ; unfortunately most of the indicators show that its indeed from Natural sapphire Company
The logo /watermark on Images looks authentic ; I picked up ring image from NSC blog and checked its EXIF info; it is from Canon EOS 40D camera . The star sapphire images which I received are also clicked from the same camera that is Cannon 40D
Its very shocking to see that The natural sapphire Company indulges in such trick photography

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I tried to superimpose original stone image with photoshoped image and it is looking perfect . Its 100% photoshoped work
Its very sad to see The Natural sapphire Company indulging such tactics

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I would be worried about how he/she gained access to your email, since that is not info that is readily available on this forum.

As to their photoshopping, I am worried that it seems to be more and more acceptable in the name of "accuracy."

 

[briolette]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Very insightful post, but disappointing at the same time. I had thought the natural sapphire company was generally well regarded.

 

[SB621]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Very insightful post, but disappointing at the same time. I had thought the natural sapphire company was generally well regarded.

There have been several posts bringing this issue up before. If you do a search I'm sure you will find them. I think on PS there are very mixed reviews on NSC but most people will tell you to avoid them, just for reasons such as these.

 

[vinkalmann]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I don't know about the rest of you, but all this seems a little fishy to me. I was really surprised that the OP didn't follow up his previous posting at all. I know personally, if I was in the same situation with a photoshopped stone (see the original posting) that they wouldn't let me return, I'd want to vent especially when there are plenty of sympathetic people to vent with.

It's clear that NSC does image manipulation, we learned as much from the mirrored images on their pairs of stones, but somethings not right here. I'm calling shenanigans.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

As I stated in an earlier post, I would like very much to hear from the OP how he believes a disgruntled ex-employee was able to access the OP's email address...

 

[Indylady]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

This thread is awkward on so many levels.

OP--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a bad diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to make complaints, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

Vinkalmann--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a good diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to praise a single company, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

 

[LD]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Looking at this from all levels:

Yes the OP has only posted about one subject and that's to be negative about The Natural Sapphire Company - however, many do do this.

Is it possible that an ex-employee (especially if treated badly by the NSC - and let's face it, the conduct of their CEO on this forum has been less than satisfactory) has contacted the OP? Yes, it could happen. Especially if the OP's real name is the name he has used on here. It would be very easy for an ex-employee to get his email details (and even more of a probability if he had known what he was going to do before leaving and made a note of those details).

Is it right/ethical of the ex-employee to do that? No of course it's not.

However, we all know that NSC manipulate their photos - previous threads and analysis of photos have proven that to be true. So are we surprised to see more evidence? I'm not.

So, whether this thread is genuine or not, it only adds to the debate about photoshopping we had before.

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

My previous post had negative connotations on The Natural Sapphire Company. So I was careful in putting up this post. I did my initial investigation . Goggled for some technical info on how to find out if image is manipulated and then tried to find out the veracity of the claims made by mystery e-mailer . All investigations show that indeed it looks like from The natural sapphire Company .
Compare EXIF of images from The Natural sapphire Company web site and the images I received. There EXIF info 100% matched on all attributes like camera used, version of Photoshop used to manipulate the image etc.
Possibly The Natural sapphire Company has many disgruntled employees. But I feel that is not important
What is important is “Is it ethical to manipulate such expensive stone images” (we are NOT talking about images of apparel or some cheap imitation jewelry) these are expensive items .
I think its time jewelry web sites should post the raw images of their merchandise or at least provide warning about possible color issues.
If one careful check both the images they 100% match and clearly show the “star reflection” is skillfully layered on the surface.
Why to discuss about who why posted this? Rather it would be more important to address core issue.. is it appropriate to manipulate images ?? No its not !!!its equivalent to fudging the specifications of a merchandise to enhance its value

 

[TheDoctor]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Marked as propoganda.

 

[T L]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I think its time jewelry web sites should post the raw images of their merchandise or at least provide warning about possible color issues.

While I am unsure of the intentions of the OP, I do agree with the above statement.

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Once again NSC shows how it manipilates photos. I don't mind how some sellers and cutters alter the picture color to show what the true IRL color is. I think that is appropriate and the right thing to do to shows colors true to form that the camera may not be able to capture.
I do not like mirrored images as we have discussed before.
I do not like the customer service some PSers have recieved from them especially when compared to the great customer service they recieve from the smaller custom cutters
I do find the thread slightly odd for reasons already stated but....
if they photoshopped a star image like that then thats about as bad as it gets.
A bad picture is better than a fake picture.

 

[LD]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Once again NSC shows how it manipilates photos. I don't mind how some sellers and cutters alter the picture color to show what the true IRL color is. I think that is appropriate and the right thing to do to shows colors true to form that the camera may not be able to capture.
I do not like mirrored images as we have discussed before.
I do not like the customer service some PSers have recieved from them especially when compared to the great customer service they recieve from the smaller custom cutters
I do find the thread slightly odd for reasons already stated but....
if they photoshopped a star image like that then thats about as bad as it gets.
A bad picture is better than a fake picture.

A huge ditto to this!

DavidSmith - there are occasions when careful manipulation of photos to carefully represent gems is necessary as it's almost impossible to capture some colours with certain cameras acurately.

TheDoctor - not sure how this thread could be labelled as propaganda! I doubt very much whether NSC would enjoy this type of publicity!

 

[vinkalmann]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

This thread is awkward on so many levels.

OP--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a bad diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to make complaints, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

Vinkalmann--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a good diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to praise a single company, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

Very agreed on both points. I may be off base, but I feel like these posts are a form of reverse shilling. This may be a case of mistranslation / misinterpretation on my part, but are you implying something about me here?

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

This thread is awkward on so many levels.

OP--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a bad diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to make complaints, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

Vinkalmann--Some Pricescope accounts are opened after a good diamond or gem shopping experience. However, if you open an account solely to praise a single company, you lose some validity amongst regular posters.

Very agreed on both points. I may be off base, but I feel like these posts are a form of reverse shilling. This may be a case of mistranslation / misinterpretation on my part, but are you implying something about me here?

YES SHE IS.

All you do is talk about how amazing/wonderful NSC is. Doesn't give you much credibility in CS.

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Freke and Indy:

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I dont think it is anything new on NSC to be revealed that they deceptively doctor their photos. A few of us had noticed the stars were painted on quite a while ago but given the history of nsc on this forum it wasnt worth the trouble to post what wasn't really news. There was one stone a few years ago they were trying to sell either as a star or just a plain cab. The star was nearly three times the cost of the cab but they were the same stone.

Photoshop is not the culprit. Photoshop is a tool. Photography in general does not have a privileged access to reality, let alone human visual perception. Having a data set captured or a negative to print from in the darkroom all require quite a bit of technical wizardry to make approximations to perceived experience. Use of those tools is not deception. Applying those techniques to improve the picture to make the product appear better than it is is deception.

I know there has been a lot of bad press in this forum about NSC and yes I think they earned it. But I do like hearing that there are people who have had good experiences there and who do not change their experience to fit the forum. I havent gone back to re-read the old thread about their deceptive photos, but I remember Vinkalmann as one who reasonably considered the evidence, allowed that it would be deceptive, but that he had had a good experience with them and was quite happy with his purchase. While he may have appeared on the scene with the announcement of his good experience, he had joined months before and one can easily imagine he was doing his research in the background, and then rather proudly came forward to show what he had learned and what he had purchased. Bear in mind that NSC is still listed on the Sites Selling Colored Gemstones and Jewelry thread, so anyone coming here for research could take that as an endorsement. Vinkalmann has participated in other, non-nsc related discussions. I for one appreciate his perspective. I dont know the OP of this thread so really dont have a formed opinion yet. Sure the subject and the presentation of it seem a little suspicious, especially the email stuff. Time will tell if it was just an inauspicious entrance or a one-off. I do understand the idea of the forum having to police itself, and maintain the standards, if not the ideals, of it's community, but I hate to see us dragged into passionate disputes that arent productive.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

VL: Well said. And now its time for some of your delicious homemade apple tart...

 

[stylish1]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I think its time jewelry web sites should post the raw images of their merchandise or at least provide warning about possible color issues.

While I am unsure of the intentions of the OP, I do agree with the above statement.

I agree with your intensions about posting raw images of product, but when I view stones I realise, especially now, that every picture is shopped in one way or the other and the same item shown for sale might be pictured two or three times under different listings, or the photo reversed. I recently saw this done on a website on EBAY, and looked at the different poses of the same stone so as to get an average of what was presented. What sellers should do and are doing seems to be on their own with no policing being done-more like being on the honor system. Buyers I'm sure are more aware on this web than most people who shop gemstones.

 

[T L]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

What I would like to know is what ever happened to Helen, the rep for NSC on this site, and why she showed up once or twice, and never reappeared again?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/greetings-from-the-natural-sapphire-company.132710/

It would be nice if someone from NSC addressed these various issues (in multiple threads), but then again, maybe their business is so good, they don't have to.

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Did you happen to see the post over at another forum that just so happens to have a newbie poster ragging on NSC as of 3/11? Can't link so I will copy a few things..wonder if it's the same person..hmmm..even the admin. added this little tidbit at the top of his/her first post...

"{Admin note: This thread was apparently started by a developer that was fired from contract work with NaturalSapphireCo. and is not a customer as they claim....it is now subject to an ongoing legal dispute - just wanted to add clarification to the posts}


(this is his/her first post there)"thenaturalsapphirecompany.com they have a nice collection of natural sapphires but off late lot of negative talk about this company on forums
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/unscrupulous-scandalous-status-quo-t137658.htm']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/unscrupulous-scandalous-status-quo-t137658.htm[/URL]
i also read somewhere(i don't have the link ) that their online purchase system is not safe and purchase orders are actually e-mailed with all cc numbers and cvv numbers.many of the functions on there site like 3D viewers do not work"(end first post)

and then there is this little tidbit in a later post
"Ok, I have received an email from Evan at NaturalSapphirecompany.

He states that "sapphirehunter"(the name over there) is not a customer, but rather a developer that they fired.

He noted that SapphireHunter will be using a constantly changing IP address and that is correct - nearly every post has a different IP which indicates he is using a proxy to block his true IP.


May be the same person or may not be...with this new thread I discovered it sort of takes away some credibility to OP's claim about the superimposed star as they could be a disgruntled employee. I sure hope NSC doesn't have the gall to add a star like that but due to past experiences I wouldn't put it past them. I would much rather have had a regular PSer to have found this than some random newbie poster so as of this point I am on the fence about this situation

 

[innerkitten]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

This is very strange. He must really be mad at The Natural Sapphire Company.

 

[vinkalmann]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

What I would like to know is what ever happened to Helen, the rep for NSC on this site, and why she showed up once or twice, and never reappeared again?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/greetings-from-the-natural-sapphire-company.132710/

It would be nice if someone from NSC addressed these various issues (in multiple threads), but then again, maybe their business is so good, they don't have to.

TBH I wondered the same thing. I think I came into the forums at a bad time. There was the hat-pin guy posting, another obvious shill post that I can't remember what it was, and then I came in with my glowing "book report" of a review. I realize now, and soon after I posted, how it looked. The rep posting soon after and the disappearing afterwards definitely didn't help.

Initially I was really happy with my experience and wanted to spread the word, but honestly the whole photoshopping into the rude behavior of the CEO really turned me off to the point where I stopped mentioning NSC to any extent. I just don't understand why the CEO would make those comments and why he handled it that way. IS business so good there he doesn't have to worry about it? The posts on this site get hundred and hundreds of views, I would think he would see it as being an endless flow of business. Weird to be sure.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I haven't been saying anything about NSC for a long while now and I hope that's not lost on everyone. I enjoy coming to the site and learning about the shiny stones from you veterans.

 

[vinkalmann]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

@VL Thank you for your post

 

[The_Natural_Sapphire_Company]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

A reply from The Natural Sapphire Company:

I am sorry that the Pricescope community has been subjected to an extortion attempt by our ex-developer.

We are now working with the Indian consulate as well as our own legal team regarding this situation, so what I can comment on this matter is limited.

What I can say, is that after being VERY generously paid, when our developers in India were let go, the owner attempted to extort our company for 6 figure sums. We of course refused.

They have since attacked and disabled our website for a week (as they knew the code intimately). Those issues have now been resolved. They have stolen one of our domains by changing the registration information shortly after being fired. Our legal team is now in litigation to get that domain back. They are also posting slanderous comments on multiple websites and forums, attempting to ruin our business.

What is most disappointing, is that the administrators of Pricesope have ignored my emails about this issue. I have sent them multiple letters explaining the situation, shown them the domain the developer stole: NaturalSapphireCompany.com (missing the word “The”) where he has linked all the posts he has created), shown them that this developer uses the same name (David or DavidSmith), to post malicious comments on multiple forums, as well as the fact that he uses a proxy server on every post he makes (so every time he connects to PS, he is using a different IP address). **edited by moderator. please respect the PS policies and see our comment regarding this issue**

I ask that no one in PS actually post a clickable link to the domain I mention above. I do not want to offer this thief and extortioner any link benefits Google may see. You can copy and paste, or enter the address above manually into your web browser.

You can also see the name of our ex-developer if you look at the (new) registration of the domain.

I regret that I cannot explain further about the situation, as this is a legal issue now. I want to assure our past, present, and future customers that their data is safe. Any so called evidence that this developer reports to have is all manufactured on his side. If a customer has any sales or pre-sales questions, they can email us directly, and we will be happy to answer.

Furthermore, we would also like to apologize for any past PS comments or situations that were not dealt with professionally and courteously.

Evan Guttman
CIO
TheNaturalSapphireCompany.com
212-869-1165

 

[LD]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Evan

Thank you for explaining. This is not good for your company and I hope it is resolved swiftly. There is no excuse for a malicious vendetta and one by a web developer is incredibly destructive especially if you depend on the internet for business.

While we have your attention however, would you mind commenting on the concerns that many posters have that NSC photoshop sales photographs i.e. using the same stone flipped to appear like a pair when in reality it is the same stone or adding asterism to a stone when it's not there?

We DO appreciate that photoshop can be used to replicate truly what is seen in real life but our concerns are that the images presented enhance the stones unfairly.

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Great reply, Evan, and thanks for explaining the situation. That truly is a shame and no company or person should have to go through that.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan



-A

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I Welcome the response from Evan ; but still it doesn’t address the issue of photoshoping images
I have posted very specific technical details on images . What happened between you and your software company is irrelevant here . Possibly they may have their side. But it has nothing to do with this thread
The concern matter is are you guys manipulating the images ?

**edited by moderator. personal information will be removed from the forum. keep on topic**

I request the owner of NSC Mr. Michael Arnstein to enter at this point and clarify the situation