Cushion Woes

[pistolpete1979]

Hi pricescopers,

I have seen, and have put on hold, what I thought was a nice cushion (after researching & searching for a while) that fitted my budget of $3500; 0.73ct, F, VVS1, 1:1 ratio, ex symmetry and ex polish, with no fluorescence. Engagement Rings Direct list the cut as 'premium', which is only second to their preferred cut, while James Allen state the cut as 'ideal' and Whiteflash don't give a cut grade, and I know there are no GIA cut grades for cushions anyway. The price of the diamond is $3360.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VV ... 77&cid=131

I emailed the above link to the jeweller which I was hoping will set it and got the following response:

"There is no visible difference between VG and EX for finish grades (polish and symmetry). While you can certainly purchase that diamond if you want but we would never recommend it. As the picture shows the diamond has a double bow tie (four dark areas in the table) and dark areas as the corners. It has been our experience that with the very high clarity grades (VVS and IF), the cutters often sacrifice the cut in order to get the higher price for the higher clarity grades. Most of the cushion diamonds we have returned for dark areas have been VVS clarity diamonds."

I haven't had good vibes from this jeweller and now want to verify the information they are giving me. I have now seen a better setting that is more like the one my gf likes, and this new jeweller can sell this diamond for very close to the above price. The question is - is the diamond worth it? I know it's not in the same league as some of the cushions posted recently, but this is my budget for the diamond.

I'm pretty stressed out buying this ring, as it seems the more you learn the more problems you come across; the other ring my gf likes is in Tiffanys, and while I didn't want to I'm considering buying off the shelf just to keep my sanity! :-s

I really appreciate any comments on the diamond, or the jewellers’ info for that matter.

 

[pistolpete1979]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/...on-Diamond-1276431.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/...on-Diamond-1276431.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Hi pricescopers,

I have seen, and have put on hold, what I thought was a nice cushion (after researching & searching for a while) that fitted my budget of $3500; 0.73ct, F, VVS1, 1:1 ratio, ex symmetry and ex polish, with no fluorescence. Engagement Rings Direct list the cut as 'premium', which is only second to their preferred cut, while James Allen state the cut as 'ideal' and Whiteflash don't give a cut grade, and I know there are no GIA cut grades for cushions anyway. The price of the diamond is $3360.
I emailed the above link to the jeweller which I was hoping will set it and got the following response:

"There is no visible difference between VG and EX for finish grades (polish and symmetry)."
That is often true.

While you can certainly purchase that diamond if you want but we would never recommend it. As the picture shows the diamond has a double bow tie (four dark areas in the table) and dark areas as the corners.
Those darker areas are not a bowtie. They are very small areas of obstruction which are only visible in high contrast lighting. This is not something to worry about. JA pictures always have way too much contrast as the camera is closer than ideal.

It has been our experience that with the very high clarity grades (VVS and IF), the cutters often sacrifice the cut in order to get the higher price for the higher clarity grades. Most of the cushion diamonds we have returned for dark areas have been VVS clarity diamonds."
While that may be true for some stones, it is not a very reliable trend. It does not apply to this cushion, which has no red flags as far as I am concerned and was not cut to save weight.
It is an 8 main modern cushion, medium sized flashes, does not have superior optical symmetry or light performance like a SCHA but certainly not a poorly cut stone either. I would get an ASET imageto confirm, but based on the proportions, the photograph, and past experience with this cutting style this is a decent diamond. I would expect the ASET image to be similar to this one below.

I haven't had good vibes from this jeweller and now want to verify the information they are giving me.
I don't blame you and would likely choose someonelse. Maybe JamesAllen has a setting you would like? You may consider purchasing from them and having it set by a local jeweler.
I have now seen a better setting that is more like the one my gf likes, and this new jeweller can sell this diamond for very close to the above price. The question is - is the diamond worth it? I know it's not in the same league as some of the cushions posted recently, but this is my budget for the diamond.
If you want an F in high clarity in a modern facet structure its worth considering.
I'm pretty stressed out buying this ring, as it seems the more you learn the more problems you come across; the other ring my gf likes is in Tiffanys, and while I didn't want to I'm considering buying off the shelf just to keep my sanity! :-s
You'll get a MUCH smaller stone that way. Do you want the novo setting as well?
I really appreciate any comments on the diamond, or the jewellers’ info for that matter.

 

[septsparkle]

I can't say if there is any validity in his argument against the cutters and the VVS clarity grades, but I do see the bow-tie effect and the dark corners he's referencing but I'm not sure if it's really just a reflection, or what from the photo. Did he also try to sell you one of his diamonds, or simply give his professional opinion on this one? If he only told you what he thought about this stone, I'd be more inclined to think he's really trying to guide you in the right direction.

ETA: I see CCL posted above me and I totally agree that with the JA photos I've seen there is always more contrast.

 

[E B]

Hi Pete,

Can you show us a photo(s) of the ring(s) your girlfriend likes?

 

[JulieN]

Looks ok to me.

 

[pistolpete1979]

Thanks for your replies, especially CCL.

When I received the email response from the jeweller I had a look at other cushions by JA, and most displayed the dark areas near the centre - except for ones it stated were 'good' cut grade. So the double bowtie is not a double bowtie, and nothing to worry about - phew!

From the FAQs of the 'new' jeweller offering this diamond they say - "In addition, we also list diamonds from various manufacturers that are not in-house with us but that we call in for comprehensive data work ups, light performance analysis, and photos, which are done in our on-premises Diamond Lab. We then e-mail this information to you for review and we'll be happy to answer any further questions you may have." I'll have to email them to see if that includes an ASET image... They also have a very nice replica Tiffany Legacy, which is one of the styles my gf likes.

http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10013#f+0/0/0/0/0/0

The other rings she likes is the Tiffany Three Stone Circlet (which I personally don't like much)

http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10044#f+10/0/0/0/0/0

My main problem now is that I want to go with the new jeweller for both the ring & setting, but I have the diamond on hold with JA - I'm reluctant to pull out as I don't want to be seen as wasting their time.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

i hope it's ok if i jump in here. i am NOT a cushion expert, but CCL helped me tons and tons when picking my cushion. he actually found the cushion we purchased from ERD. from what i see with just my eyes, this cushion looks a lot like the one i own with the 8 mains and medium flashes. it's beautiful! there are darker areas, but they are where CCL pointed them out in the ASET image that he drew up for you. we did not get an ASET for our stone but i am so in love with it. if you haven't purchased the stone yet, i would ask for an ASET. JA does do this so don't hesitate to ask. this is a big purchase so don't feel any pressure from anyone to buy this stone. i think it's most important that you feel comfortable with what you purchase and that you see beauty in it when you see it with your own eyes.

i know that cushions come in different shapes and behaves differently, but here are some images of my stone that i took with just a normal digital camera in normal house lighting. it is a 2.09ct so much larger than yours but maybe this will help you feel better about the comments made on this stone:

 

[septsparkle]

Wow, sweetpea, that's so pretty!!!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Thanks for your replies, especially CCL.

When I received the email response from the jeweller I had a look at other cushions by JA, and most displayed the dark areas near the centre - except for ones it stated were 'good' cut grade. So the double bowtie is not a double bowtie, and nothing to worry about - phew!

From the FAQs of the 'new' jeweller offering this diamond they say - "In addition, we also list diamonds from various manufacturers that are not in-house with us but that we call in for comprehensive data work ups, light performance analysis, and photos, which are done in our on-premises Diamond Lab. We then e-mail this information to you for review and we'll be happy to answer any further questions you may have." I'll have to email them to see if that includes an ASET image... They also have a very nice replica Tiffany Legacy, which is one of the styles my gf likes.

http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10013#f+0/0/0/0/0/0

The other rings she likes is the Tiffany Three Stone Circlet (which I personally don't like much)

http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10044#f+10/0/0/0/0/0

My main problem now is that I want to go with the new jeweller for both the ring & setting, but I have the diamond on hold with JA - I'm reluctant to pull out as I don't want to be seen as wasting their time.

It will be okay if you want to switch vendors, before you do though, you might ask JA if they have access to a Tiffany Legacy replica, it is such a common setting they might. Also Exceldiamonds wouldn't be my first choice for doing a Tiffany Legacy Replica, In platinum I'd expect that ring to be 2500 - 3500 from many CAD/CAM designers. Is that price range in your budget?

 

[pistolpete1979]

Just out of interest why wouldn't you choose ED, and can you recommend any CAD/CAM designers, as $3500 for the setting is the limit of my budget?

Sweet, sweetpea! I now feel inferior. Beautiful diamond you have there! (like you need me to say it!)

 

[portia]

Brian Gavin Diamonds has a really nice Tiffany Legacy replica. I am having them set one of my gemstones in that setting. It was $2850 for 18k white gold. Not sure how much more platinum would be.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Just out of interest why wouldn't you choose ED, and can you recommend any CAD/CAM designers, as $3500 for the setting is the limit of my budget?

I am a real stickler for attention to detail and minnimizing metal in halos. I put Ocean Pearlman and Leon Mege in the top league in terms of cleans lines, small deicate beads, even milgrain and minnimizing metal in pave for a design like this.

In the second tier would be CAD/CAM designers and their settors which can be very good as well, they are at a lower pricepoint and the pieces look a bit bulky and less refined but still can be excellent overall.

I would put BGD http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5441 in the top of this class. ERD can also do good work as well on this design.

The rest I don't have a lot of experience with but most others(like Excel ) where I have looked at the pictures, they looked uneven, bulky or there were just other elements I felt could have been done better. Unless the price is significantly different and you aren't that picky I'd probably prefer BGD or ERD over the others. It may be worth contacting many vendors and getting details, photographs and quotes if you are interested.

Regards,
CCL

 

[CharmyPoo]

If you are going to consider Leon and Ocean, I will also throw in Maytal Hannah and Bridget Durnell. I used Maytal for one of my rings (show-me-the-ring/a-year-in-the-making-maytal-hannah-halo-erd-cushion-t147719.html) and she did a good job with the pave. The style of the two Tiffany rings you posted is something that she is more used to doing than the v-step pave I had her do.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

thanks septsparkle! it's currently with JbEG for a reset, i will get it back in a couple weeks and i can't wait!

pistolpete: most welcome! i didn't mean to detract attention from this thread at all! don't feel inferior at all! it's all about what you can afford and whatever you choose is coming from the heart, and that's all that matters.

for CAD designers, have you considered talking to jewels by erica grace? they have started making custom settings, and the customer service is unbelievably amazing! they are great about staying in close communication and are committed to producing something you will love. their prices don't seem ridiculously unreasonable either.

once you choose your cushion, post pictures please!

 

[pistolpete1979]

Sweetpea - no worries, I know your intentions were of the helpful kind and nothing different, so don't worry. It's just you have such a nice rock there...

Thanks for all your comments so far - really helpful. I've had a look at BGD and I can see the difference between his rings and ED, and the Tiffany Legacy style in platinum is $2850, so a very good price for the difference in quality.

I'm now toying with blowing the budget to get a better diamond, as it looks as though a better setting will actually save me a few hundred dollars. I have the money, so wouldn't be getting in to debt, it was just more than the gf was comfortable with me spending. This is the new cushion I've found:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/...on-Diamond-1303829.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

To me there is a significance difference between this and the cut of the 0.73ct I have on hold (I will assume the darker areas are JA's photographic contrast?). The main thing I'm trying to get my head around is that I'm no longer in the colorless range and had in my head that I wanted the best quality diamond, and not necessarily the biggest one. I know that it would only be the slightest color seen, but colorless would have given me a 'mind clean' diamond... but I do like this one.

Any thoughts on this new cushion? Guess I should see what GOG has around this price, too.

Also, I need the ring by the end of Spet/beginning of Oct, as I'm in the UK but my gf is in America and I was planning to propose next time I visit; the ering will be made and stay in the country, and next year I'll get to see it every day.

 

[pistolpete1979]

Ignore my last post!

Ok, within the first budget is this SCHA from GOG, which is 0.76ct, and I've just fallen in love with it:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7206

At SI1it's less clarity than I wanted, but I'm guessing it would be eye clean. Mind clean really dosen't bother me after seeing this!

They also have a 0.91ct SCHA beyond my first budget but within my second ( ), but for some reason I prefer the 0.76ct.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6982

I wish I hadn't have left it so long before posting for your help - I was getting worried time would run out but now think I've found the right diamond!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Ignore my last post!

Ok, within the first budget is this SCHA from GOG, which is 0.76ct, and I've just fallen in love with it:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7206

At SI1it's less clarity than I wanted, but I'm guessing it would be eye clean. Mind clean really dosen't bother me after seeing this!

They also have a 0.91ct SCHA beyond my first budget but within my second ( ), but for some reason I prefer the 0.76ct.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6982

I wish I hadn't have left it so long before posting for your help - I was getting worried time would run out but now think I've found the right diamond!

Both diamonds exhibit the HA pattern and have superior light performance and optical symmetry.
You would have to check with GOG if either is eye clean to your standard.
If both are eye clean I would lean toward bigger the extra 0.3mm will be a significant different in under 6mm stones. The color difference will probably not be that visible unless you put them both next to each other.

Just to mix things up here are two choices with different facet structure, thicker 8 mains that is very popular on Pricescope.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7260/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7138/

They both faceup a little larger than the SCHA and have excellent light performance as well.

Here is a video http://www.vimeo.com/9188543

1st one on the far left is cut like your first choice in this thread from jamesallen and similar to sweatpea&babycon's.
2nd from the left is the SCHA like your two new choices.
3rd one from the left is the August vintage like the two choices I posted just above.

Hope this helps, this video highlights the best 8 main cushions available on the market today.
CCL

 

[CharmyPoo]

Two more options for you. Mark at ERD will be able to find these and pull these diamonds for you. This is from the source of my diamond and I believe CCL's diamond.

Although lower in ct weight, both these diamonds face up bigger than the James Allen one you selected. Further, based on the numbers, I would guess these ones will look better too. The James Allen diamond looks like there is a ring of death but it could just be a bad photo or reflection form the camera.. I can't tell.

Difficult to read but I don't have time to format it.
Carats Color Clarity Depth Table Girdle Culet Pol Sym Fluor Measurements Ratio
1.01 G SI1 65.6 59 TN-TK N EX VG N 6.11*6.08*3.99 1.00
1.01 F VS2 62.9 64 VTN-STK N EX VG N 6.21*6.17*3.88 1.01

G SI1 around $4000


F VS2 around $5000

 

[pistolpete1979]

CCL, thanks for making my choice harder! I've watched that video time and time again trying to decide if I liked the SCHA or AVC the best... What I dilemma, as they are both beautiful cuts. I called my gf, and while keeping the shape of the diamond secret (so she doesn't know which ring I've opted for), I asked if she would like smaller but more sparkles or fewer but bigger sparkles? She thought about it for a while and said - more but smaller. I had already chosen the SCHA as my favourite, too.

I've just got off the phone with Sarah from GOG and asked if the 0.76ct SCHA is eye clean, and it is. Then I enquired about the 1.11ct SCHA, as I'm so tempted at pushing the boat out. I couldn't believe what she offered next - she's going to compare them in a video for me! To me, this is awesome customer service, and will no doubt be the best tool in gauging the sizes of the two diamonds against each other. I've not yet bought the diamond, but I'm already a happy man. (and to think in my first post I said I was getting stressed with it all!) Sarah is also going to see if the cutter has any more in their inventory...

I decided to give the 0.91ct SCHA a miss, as although Sarah said it was basically eye clean, if you examined it carefully (as my gf might when I put it on her finger) you may be able to see the imperfection at the side.

Thanks too for the other diamond ideas, but I'm loving the SCHA too much to consider anything else, though it was close for a moment!

The video should be ready tomorrow - I can't wait.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

CCL, thanks for making my choice harder! I've watched that video time and time again trying to decide if I liked the SCHA or AVC the best... What I dilemma, as they are both beautiful cuts. I called my gf, and while keeping the shape of the diamond secret (so she doesn't know which ring I've opted for), I asked if she would like smaller but more sparkles or fewer but bigger sparkles? She thought about it for a while and said - more but smaller. I had already chosen the SCHA as my favourite, too.

Excellent sounds like you asked the right questions without giving anything away!

I've just got off the phone with Sarah from GOG and asked if the 0.76ct SCHA is eye clean, and it is. Then I enquired about the 1.11ct SCHA, as I'm so tempted at pushing the boat out. I couldn't believe what she offered next - she's going to compare them in a video for me! To me, this is awesome customer service, and will no doubt be the best tool in gauging the sizes of the two diamonds against each other. I've not yet bought the diamond, but I'm already a happy man. (and to think in my first post I said I was getting stressed with it all!) Sarah is also going to see if the cutter has any more in their inventory...

Big jump in budget if she can find you an eye clean Si1 you might be able to save some $$$.

I decided to give the 0.91ct SCHA a miss, as although Sarah said it was basically eye clean, if you examined it carefully (as my gf might when I put it on her finger) you may be able to see the imperfection at the side.

Good thorough question, I wish all consumers would ask the right questions and get precise answers from their jeweler.

Thanks too for the other diamond ideas, but I'm loving the SCHA too much to consider anything else, though it was close for a moment!

It sounds like you are making a well informed decision and that is the best I can ever hope for.

The video should be ready tomorrow - I can't wait.

Let us know what you think.

 

[pistolpete1979]

A 0.93ct SCHA is being shipped over night and will be included in the video. G, VS1 - sounding good to me... Should be in the middle price range. Budget, what budget?

Thanks for your help, CCL - you almost converted me to AVC through a little education.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Example of thread where no one else needs to contribute but CCL. Good work OP.

 

[yssie]

Example of thread where no one else needs to contribute but CCL. Good work OP.

 

[pistolpete1979]

I now have a SCHA on hold, though looking at the Helium Report I have found an extra facet, highlighted red on the image. Should this concern me, or am I being over critical, bearing in mind the diamond has great light return? Also, this diamond is said to have AGS ideal symmetry - do you think this is acceptable/correct?

0.93ct, G, VS1

 

[diagem]

I now have a SCHA on hold, though looking at the Helium Report I have found an extra facet, highlighted red on the image. Should this concern me, or am I being over critical, bearing in mind the diamond has great light return? Also, this diamond is said to have AGS ideal symmetry - do you think this is acceptable/correct?

0.93ct, G, VS1

Probably a scan error??

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

I now have a SCHA on hold, though looking at the Helium Report I have found an extra facet, highlighted red on the image. Should this concern me, or am I being over critical, bearing in mind the diamond has great light return? Also, this diamond is said to have AGS ideal symmetry - do you think this is acceptable/correct?

0.93ct, G, VS1

Probably a scan error??

Diagem has pointed out the most likely answer. Do you have a link to the other information about the diamond?

 

[nararabbit]

I absolutely LOVE GOG's diamonds. I really don't think you can go wrong with them - one thing to consider is whether one stone has a lifetime policy over another. This would allow you to trade it in at any time for any other fine quality stone they have, as long as it is the same size or larger. So maybe you get a promotion, want to upgrade for that 5 year anniversary, or she sees a princess cut she loves - you're not screwed.

Just a thought. Both GOG diamonds are lovely! For me personally, I love owning a 1 ct+ so if you have that ability, I'd go for it over a lovely .76 any day. That's a quarter carat difference, for not a huge jump in price that you've already come around to being comfortable spending. I'm not trying to push you into something you don't want, just remember that she will hopefully wear this FOREVER, and I know quite a few women who later say "I just wish it was a teeny bit bigger." Societal pressure will do that to you!

 

[pistolpete1979]

I guess the easy thing to do is ask GOG for a re-scan.

Here's the link to the stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/122

As for the upgrade idea, my gf didn't want me to spend this much on a ring in the first place, so I know she wouldn't want anything bigger or more expensive later on; she's not all that in to material things and would rather us go away for a nice weekend for an anniversary...

 

[pistolpete1979]

http://vimeo.com/14250689

Mine's the middle one - nothing to worry about, right?