Would anyone buy I1 over SI2....

[PrincessClyde]

If you were able to get a larger diamond for the same price, would you buy an I1 clarity over an SI2 (assuming cut and color are relatively the same)? At what size difference would you buy the I1?

Also, has anyone bought an I1 stone without seeing it first (just trusting the vendor) and ended up happy?

 

[Patty]

PrincessClyde, I just bought an I1 Superbcert diamond last month. Let's see if I can hyperlink here!



My I1 thread

 

[p5r799]

Hello!
Everybody has their opinions, but from my own experience I don't think you should go below SI1 for clarity.
If you are on a budget, I think you should definitley get the best color you can with an ideal cut, which is also very important. Size does matter from a woman's perspective so try to balance it out as well as you can. I think diamonds are good investments so the decision should be made wisely.
I don't know where you are located but you should check out Diamond Direct in Charlotte, NC. It's a wholesale vendor that has a store like the Tiffany's and the price and the service is unbeatable.

 

[Mara]

There is no such thing as a wholesale vendor who sells to the public...sorry

As for I1 over SI2...Patty has an eye-clean I1 and Canadian Girl has an eye-clean I1. Both are exceptional cuts and represented great value for the $$!




If the lab that graded was strict enough, you may be able to find an I1 that is a great deal and 99% eye clean. If you are okay with seeing something like maybe a white crystal in the stone that is mostly masked by sparkle, then you would be a good candidate for an I1. But sometimes inclusions drive people nuts if they can see them or think they see them....so if you are more like that, go for SI2.




Do have to say that it seems much harder to find a well-cut I1 than a well-cut SI2..so availability and your timeline may factor into what you decide. Good luck!

 

[sumi]

I would much rather have a high quality smaller stone over a big stone of lesser quality. QUALITY over quantity. I have seen women with large stones, but they are not beautiful. I would personally be embarrassed to wear a large stone of low quality. I understand that you would want to buy the largest stone you can within your budget, but big does not always mean good.

 

[Mara]

I1 does not mean 'low quality' just like IF does not mean 'high quality'. In fact I see it as budget vs expensive. All it means is on a grading scale setup by humans, the stone falls into a parameter range. As I said, people have gotten I1 eye clean stones. In my opinion that is not low-quality, it's just smart shopping. Why put your money where no one can see it?

 

[canadiangrrl]

If you were able to get a larger diamond for the same price, would you buy an I1 clarity over an SI2 (assuming cut and color are relatively the same)? At what size difference would you buy the I1? >>>> Yes. I've seen SI2's in person that looked markedly worse than my I1. It would depend entirely on the nature and location of the inclusions, and which lab graded the stone.

Also, has anyone bought an I1 stone without seeing it first (just trusting the vendor) and ended up happy? >>> Yes. We purchased my 1.18 RB from DCD, sight unseen, and we are thrilled. Caveat - it's imperative to trust your vendor in these circumstances. Jim and Josh at DCD both told us that the stone was very clean, and very beautiful, and lo and behold, it is. It's also important to get the stone/ring independently appraised. We had the ring appraised prior to taking delivery and our appraiser (Rich Sherwood) assured us that it was absolutely gorgeous, and a high I1.

Again, the lab was a factor here, as was the cut and shape of the stone. I wouldn't buy an I1 in any other shape but a round - not enough faceting in fancies to mask inclusions. My stone is very well cut (scores a 1.0 on the HCA) so I knew the brilliance would help to hide any visible inclusions, and it does - I can't see the feather under the table without magnification. And the stone was graded by AGS, who are known to be quite conservative.

 

[p5r799]

I'm sorry tp disagree with you but there is.
The store is in Charlotte, NC. The owner started out selling the diamonds to stores such as Christian Bernard, Finks and etc and few years ago he decided "why not sell it directly to the public for the same price?". Don't knock it until you've seen and experienced it. I've done my driving to the local and the national stores.. websites and I haven't found a place that sells good quality diamonds for lower price than Diamond Direct.. this store is listed in several Bride Magazines also. Check out the InStyle - Wedding that resently came out.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Sumi, not all I1's are crap stones. I guarantee that you wouldn't assume that my stone (or Patty's, for that matter) are low quality diamonds.

There are variances in clarity grades. All I1's are not created equal, just as all VS2's aren't the same. I've seen round brilliant I1's (and SI2's) with black spots visible in the face up position that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Mine is clean to the naked eye - the primary inclusion is invisible beneath its prong - and you would only know that the stone is an I1 if I told you it was.

 

[Mara]

His prices may be low, but he is not wholesale. He is retail, if he sells to public. This has been discussed in the past...Wholesale does not sell to general public. It's a nice marketing term to use though.

 

[p5r799]

I totally agree with Sumi. I've seen so many foggy and yellow diamonds that are huge. But it sure doesn't impress me and most of the women I know. They are just polite.

 

[p5r799]

Inclusions do drive picky people like me mad.
Especially when you can see it through the table or from the underneath. Eventhough the other people can't see it, wouldn't it drive you nuts knowing that you are wearing a poor quality diamond? But I rather go lower in clarity than color so that's better than telling someone to go lower in the color I suppose.

 

[Patty]

I'm not sure if my I1 is really eye-clean, but it sure isn't easy to see the inclusion! I'll let you know more once I get my new ring. Looking at the loose stone through the top I wasn't sure if I could see the inclusion or if it was just part of the diamond. And the sparkle was blinding.

It's all about what you can and can't tolerate and what is important to you. I love a large stone (and large is relative) and I love a good cut and color. Also, though it may sound silly to some people, I can tolerate one eye-visible inclusion over lots of "clutter." When I look at some of the pictures of the SI stones, I cringe. Even if those stones are eye clean, it would bother me to know all of that is there. I prefer a stone with just one larger inclusion. Crazy, but like I said, it's all about what is important to you.

After I've had my ring for a while, I'll decide whether or not I will buy another I1 diamond. Also, finding a good deal is important to me. That is definitely a psycological thing. When I see people who want flawless stones for their "flawless" wives, I think that's sweet. But I also think that I like a diamond that's like me...pretty great overall, but not perfect.

 

[p5r799]

If you want to discuss the technicality of a "word" wholesale vs. retail, we can do that.
But that's not my point. Don't people come here to listen to what everybody has to say to make a best possible decision?
I don't see why it matters what the vendor call themselves as long as they provide a superior service and unbeatable price.
So what do you call the store that sells both to a public and to the stores?

 

[p5r799]

Even if those stones are eye clean, it would bother me to know all of that is there...Crazy, but like I said, it's all about what is important to you.
...Also, finding a good deal is important to me. That is definitely a psycological thing. When I see people who want flawless stones for their "flawless" wives, I think that's sweet. But I also think that I like a diamond that's like me...pretty great overall, but not perfect.


Can't agree with you more.

 

[canadiangrrl]

*bangs head repeatedly on monitor*

Clarity has nothing to do with yellow. Yellow has to do with colour - my stone is an F, which is in the colourless band. A round brilliant diamond that appears even faintly yellow under casual viewing would not reside in the colourless band - you'd be looking at a minimum of J and above. A diamond that appears foggy would have to be at least an I2, if not an I3, to have the amount of inclusions necesssary to make the stone appear foggy.

I suspect the fogginess you're referring to has more to do with cut and cleanliness of the stone than it does with clarity. A poorly cut stone doesn't sparkle and can appear foggy. A dirty stone (e.g. a stone covered in soap film) will also appear foggy. My stone is neither poorly cut nor dirty, and it does not appear foggy in the least.

Is it Friday or something???

 

[Mara]

The point here P5R is that in my opinon, it's simply not a 'technicality' of a word.




Wholesale to the public is misleading. In fact they are a RETAIL and they sell at low prices. Great! But to mark yourself wholesale and scream it, advertise it etc....that is not in fact TRUE. So it's almost like false advertising. I would not want to shop with a diamond company who billed themselves as 'wholesale to the public'.




It's a marketing gimmick to get people into the stores and sell more stones. Great that they have excellent stones and prices...but they are not calling themselves what they are. I'm in marketing so I can respect they want to get more business by using a keyword such as wholesale...but as a consumer...I don't agree.




Many stores sell to the public and to the retail. They bill themselves accordingly, they have a separate hidden section of their business which would be the true wholesale (and you'd need a license# to use), and then to the public they are retail.

 

[p5r799]

Who said that clairty has anything to do with color?

 

[canadiangrrl]

P, you're not geting it. It's critical that this information is firmly embedded in the consciouness of the diamond-buying public, for their own protection. A wholesaler is separate and distinct from a retailer. A wholesaler cannot sell to the public. A retailer cannot call himself a wholesaler. There are laws that govern this sort of thing, and it's an important distinction to make with many of the consumers who come here seeking advice - because a retailer who calls himself a wholesaler is of questionable integrity, to say the least.

 

[strmrdr]

I dont care about the rating as long as it is eyeclean.

si1 - good chance of finding one
si2 - less of a chance
I1 - they exist but its a needle in a hay stack.

Unless a vendor I trust says hey I have an eyeclean si2/si3/I1 you would like I wouldnt look below si1.
The rest of the specs would have to be in line with what I like of course but you get the idea.

The I1's I looked at in the mall stores and local b&ms were nasty.

 

[canadiangrrl]

"Who said that clairty (sic) has anything to do with color?"

In the context of a discussion of stones of I1 clarity, the concept of quality came into play. Specifically, that I1 stones were of low quality. You then made your post about women who wear yellow, foggy stones. Which, in my mind, dovetailed with the ongoing discussion about clarity. I wanted to clarify for the viewing public that the colour of a stone has nothing to do with the clarity grade being discussed.

Canadiangrrl, popping a Xanax

 

[p5r799]

I don't remember saying that they advertise themselves as wholesale store. That's how they started out so it probably stuck. And no, they do not advertise it to the world. They don't even believe in having a website because it's not personal. We learned about the store through couple of friends. People drive hours to check out the store because it's that good just like we did. Matter of fact, while we were there, a famous basketball player was picking up a ring with his fiance. Not that that has anything to do with anything. Word of mouth is the best compliment and that's how they do business. The designers such as Veragio and Tacori list them as one of their vendors but Diamond Direct themselves don't put out advertisement trying to grab customers unlike the other famous stores. They just don't have to.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/9/2004 3:35:31 PM canadiangrrl wrote:

Caveat - it's imperative to trust your vendor in these circumstances. Jim and Josh at DCD both told us that the stone was very clean, and very beautiful, and lo and behold, it is. It's also important to get the stone/ring independently appraised
----------------

Princess Clyde: This comment above by CG is the MOST important statement you will ever read regarding your clarity questions.

To embellish a bit: We all start out with a "range" we think we'd like to be in....but it's imperative that you don't close off your mind to ANY possibility that helps you to get the best blend of size, color, etc. I frankly wanted to get the most sizable stone I could in the H, SI1 range.

When I called Whiteflash to ask about an H, SI1 stone, Brian commented that he had an H, SI2 that he felt was a better choice. While I was hesitant, I was willing to listen to WHY Brian felt this way. The inclusions on the SI2 were white & wispy...the inclusions on the SI1 were dark. In his estimation, the gradings should have been reversed. If I had the mindset that SI1 was *always* better than SI1, I've have been wrong (and missed out). Keep in mind that grading is done by people....humans who are falliable and have bad days, etc.

Brian also felt that the SI2 stone was a "high" H color. He assured me that it was totally eyeclean. I decided to trust his judgment, knowing that I'd have the second opinion of my appraiser, too.

Rich Sherwood (the appraiser) said: It's a top, top, top SI2 and it's a high H too. Totally eyeclean.

What did this willingness to consider it mean to me? Instead of a 1.08 stone, I got to 1.24.....which is a size that I'd desired but never thought I could get into. Would I have done it if the SI2 wasn't eyeclean? NO....I'd have stayed at the 1.08. But if I hadn't been willing to think outside the box and TALK to my vendor, I'd have missed an opportunity for a GREAT buy! The same stone as an SI1 would cost us *hundreds* more.

CG is telling you the same thing.....she wouldn't just buy the I1 on a lark, but she *trusted* Jim (and Rich S.) to tell her the real deal on the stone, and it saved her a TON of money. That's smart shopping.

Not all I stones are created equal. Not all SI2 or I1 stones are created equal. If considering a GOOD I1 will help you get to where you'd like to be in size, then consider it as a possibility. They aren't easy to find, but they are out there.

 

[Mara]

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On 1/9/2004 4:04:09 PM p5r799 wrote:











I don't remember saying that they advertise themselves as wholesale store.

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The terminology when referring to them however, should not be 'wholesale'.

 

[canadiangrrl]

"I don't know where you are located but you should check out Diamond Direct in Charlotte, NC. It's a wholesale vendor that has a store like the Tiffany's and the price and the service is unbeatable."

You're advertising them as a wholesale vendor. You must be getting that information...from their advertising???

 

[Mara]

CG I have missed you tremendously. Hold me.

 

[p5r799]

I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't know anything about the law regarding retailer vs. wholesaler, but why is that I found so many wholesale vendors who sells diamonds to the public? There are tons that advertise through the internet and on the yellow pages. Of course I think they are sketchy.
What you guys are not hearing is that I'm stating my opinion just like you guys are. I don't think you are gemalogists (??spell), are you? So all of us can't state what's correct and incorrect. All we are doing is giving the other people our opinions and sharing our experiences. I think it's important to look at everything as a package, research lots before purchase but most importantly be in love with what you are purchasing.
Have a wonderful weekend everybody.

 

[aljdewey]

PR....at the point that your NC store only sold to retailers.....THEN he was a wholesaler.




The MINUTE he started selling to the public, he is no longer a wholesaler by definition. He may still sell to other retail outlets, but by definition, selling to ONE end-customer makes him a retailer.

 

[highendgems]

Absolutley NOT. A properly graded I1 stone has VISIBLE inclusions to the human eye without magnification and does not represent value to the consumer (SI1 does). If you ever see a truly eye clean I1, then its is very likely an SI2 or SI1 but graded improperly. Any lower than SI1 is very dangerous unless you see the stone and are convinced yourself that it is beautiful and clean.

Also, saty away from SI3, which is only a EGL grade and really means 'clean as possible' I1.

I stones carry much lower value than popular SI stones and should definatley get you a bigger stone--but remember, bigger stones mean better chance to see more and bigger inclusions.

 

[p5r799]

How am I advertising? I'm just a customer who was floored by what I saw just passing on the good deal.
If you are having problem with my choice of words, just simply ignore them.