Ultimatums ...... Good or Bad idea!?

[EyeElle]

Hi All,

A friend of mine is going through some difficult things with her bf. They were about to get engaged when he suddenly had second thoughts, and now he can''t decide what he wants. This has been going on for a while and its time to make a move.

She has been told by many to give him an ultimatum .... either he decides by the end of the week what he wants to do, or she makes the decidion for him and she leaves him.

What do you guys think about giving ultimatums??? Do you think its a good push for him or will it backfire???
Do you think its a good idea to give ultimatums in general??

Just looking for some feeback, I am not sure how to help her anymore

 

[tlh]

You might also find that LIW has some good ideas on this thread.

I personally think they are a bad idea. I think if you set an internal deadline and it isn''t met, then walk. Sometimes life throws curve balls at you and there are OTHER factors to make you reconsider this deadline.

That said, I told my man if I didn''t get my ring I''d start bringing home dates and mess the sheets.

Of course I was kidding, but I got my point across. We are now happily married. I hated that we had to wait... (we had a sick doggy who incurred $800+ a month in vet bills... an extremely rare disease, that we have sucessfully put in remission - and this affected the budget for the ring. I did say to him however at some point you have to put me above the dog. He did... but it was REALLY FRIGGIN TOUGH to wait through.)

 

[Sizzle]

Date: 1/26/2009 12:35:12 PM
Author:EyeElle
Hi All,

A friend of mine is going through some difficult things with her bf. They were about to get engaged when he suddenly had second thoughts, and now he can''t decide what he wants. This has been going on for a while and its time to make a move.

She has been told by many to give him an ultimatum .... either he decides by the end of the week what he wants to do, or she makes the decidion for him and she leaves him.

What do you guys think about giving ultimatums??? Do you think its a good push for him or will it backfire???
Do you think its a good idea to give ultimatums in general??

Just looking for some feeback, I am not sure how to help her anymore

I think if someone isn''t ready they aren''t ready. An ultimatium to me is not inline with ADULT who want to be married. I would not want to FORCE someone into marrying me. That being said, If she needs an answer for her own self by a certain day, I don''t think there''s a need to express this to him. When he tells her he''s not ready, she needs to tell him that she needs some space and needs to move on. PERIOD, and who knows what the future will hold. I would not let someone else dictate what''s going to be MY future.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Ultimatums are a fine idea if and only if she is actually prepared to follow through with what she is saying. Otherwise, they are empty promises. If she says to her boyfriend... "I''m leaving if you don''t make up your mind"... and in the end doesn''t end the relationship...then she will lose all credibility with her boyfriend--meaning, he''ll know from that point forward he doesn''t have to adhere to what she says, because more likely than not she''s simply blowing smoke.

On a serious note, though...telling a man to make up his mind or you''re going to start seeing other people isn''t so much an ultimatium as it is a step in the right direction. If her boyfriend is waffling over commitment, then she is perfectly within her rights to say if he can''t or won''t commit than she''ll be forced to move on and find someone else who will. After all, his feelings aren''t the only ones that matter in their relationship. There are two people within the walls of that relationship, ergo, she absolutely has a say in what happens as well. She shouldn''t be left in purgatory until BF gets'' his act together. Uh-uh, no way no how.

If she were my friend, I would tell her to only take the steps she''s prepared to take...she can make a move without ever leaving "seeing other people" usually hits the message home in a big way. One or two extracurricular dates and he''ll be beside himself with confusion.

 

[geckodani]

I''m never a fan of ultimatums. I agree that if she has to set a personal time frame, than she should do so.

 

[coatimundi_org]

I generally avoid ultimatums. Sounds like communication is lacking here.

 

[Bia]

No way. I just cringe at the thought of my FI proposing to me on account of my saying "either you do it by x-date or I'm out!"

Around Nov-Dec of last year (really only a few months ago) I was worried that my then BF might have had seconds thoughts. I had somewhat of an internal deadline because 1.) he had given me no indication that the engagement was in the works, and 2.) we had discussed marriage this time last year, and we've been together almost 7 years. We couldn't wait forever...especially after being together for so long.

In my case, everything worked out. Had he not proposed when he did (December) I would have given myself until February-March to talk to him about my feelings and ask him what his feelings were. I probably would have then given him until July-August before I decided to move on (I never really got to thinking that far ahead, so this is a rough estimate).

My point is, marriage is a VERY VERY VERY big decision, and no one should be pressured, or worse, FORCED into making that type of a commitment. As a former LIW, I know how easy it is to obsess about the engagement, and even to rethink certain things about one's relationship. BUT the fact of the matter is, both individuals need to be 100% ready, because if one is not, it can be a real disaster.

 

[fieryred33143]

I don''t do ultimatums. If my life gets to a point where I feel that I have to say ''either you do this or I''m walking'' then I''m just going to cut the conversation and walk.

Plus, and this is probably just me, but lets say she does tell him "propose to me by Friday or I''m leaving" and let''s say he proposes. Wouldn''t that bother anyone here? It would bother me. If someone asked about the proposal, I''d always have in the back of my mind that he proposed because I forced him to make a decision. Everything about it will be forced and I will always think does he want to marry me really or did he just do that because he''s comfortable with me and figures ''why not?'' I wouldn''t want a ''why not'' proposal.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I find this posting so interesting...I guess I personally view the situation as less of an "ultimatium" and more as a decision on the future.

Your friend shouldn''t pressure her boyfriend into marriage--and if setting a firm deadline is going to push anyone towards a rash decision then she needs to find another way around the situation, and I certianly hope it didn''t sound like I was suggesting that in my first post...however, I think that if Friday is her make or break day, then that''s okay too.

So often on the LIW board I see women who have totally and completely left the marriage decision up to their boyfriend--on his time, more or less, they will get engaged...and then the woman goes on to moan and groan about ''whats taking so long???'' Personally, when it came to marriage, I wanted equal say. If I wanted to be married, I want to my boyfriend to understand my reasons and feelings and I certainly wasn''t going to wait until he made the decision for the both of us. Sure, traditionally it''s a purposal...but it''s now 2009 and I think that women deserve as much say in a time line, set in stone plan.

For some people marriage is of the upmost importance...and if a man finds himself with a woman who has this view, then he should respect it.

 

[Lauren8211]

Ditto Fiery and Bia. I can''t imagine giving an ultimatum for a proposal. I would like it if my FF wanted to marry me, as opposed to me twisting his arm, and likely proposing simply because he hasn''t had time to internalize what life would be like without me.

If our communcation was that lacking, and our timelines were that far off... I''d likely consider ending the relationship before administering an ultimatum.

If I was in the position of your friend, I''d just leave, without a "here''s 5 days to make up your mind" (this is assuming that she''d addressed the issue with him several times, w/o any sort of answer, and it''s a futile discussion.). If he had any objections to my leaving that inspired him to get his butt in gear, he would prove it by making his way to the nearest jeweler and promptly placing the ring on my finger. Can''t say for sure how I''d feel about that proposal either, to be honest. I forsee resentment either way.

Somehow it seems there is a point of no return for LIWs. You wait long enough (this varies greatly within relationships. Could be 1 year, could be 15) and you''re just bitter, no matter WHEN the proposal comes.

 

[April20]

I think they''re a bad, bad idea. You can''t force someone to make a decision that they''re not ready to make. You give them an ultimatum and I don''t see how there can possibly be a good result in the long run. Either they say forget it and walk away, when in reality maybe they wouldn''t if they had time to sort it all out in their head OR they give in and are always questioning the decision. If the latter occurs, I think it provides a very weak foundation for the relationship. You have to both be completely committed to what you''re doing. If one is not, it is going to be difficult, if not impossible, to truly make it work.

At the end of the day, your friend has to make what she thinks is the right decision for HER. She can''t make or force his decision.

 

[vespergirl]

I think giving an ultimatum is approaching the situation the wrong way. For instance, if she''s not happy because they are not married yet, it''s about doing what she can to get herself on the path to happiness. She should just leave, telling him something like this,"Look, I really am ready to get married and have children, and since you are not, I need to be on my own and find someone else who''s a better fit for me, and for my current goals in life." Then go. If he comes to her and wants to be with her, great. If not, that''s also a good situation. Now she''s single, and can try to find someone who is also interested in settling down.

 

[movie zombie]

no to ultimatum but yes to the following:

i''ve been thinking a lot about what i want my life to be like. i know i want to be married. its not fair to give you an ultimtum, but in fairness to myself, i need you to know that i may not continue this relationship. i''m going to take a month break to think about this further. i''ll get back to you.

and then she really does need to think hard and clear about what she wants in her life. forcing this guy with an ultimatum is not fair to any future relationship they may or may not have. but she needs to be clear for herself what she wants and what she''s willing to do to make her life what she wants it to be....relying on him to do it for her is just plain wrong.

this guy may really love her and want a life long relationship without marriage. but if she really wants marriage, she may need to look elsewhere.

movie zombie

ps how unromantic is an engagement as the result of an ultimatum?! yuck.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Utlimatum? No. Internal deadline? Yes.

What is the reason for his cold feet? He changes his mind because...he suddenly didn''t feel she was "the one"? He can''t stand the idea of being with one woman for the rest of his life? His parents had a terrible marriage and he is terrified of repeating it?

I have no doubt she''s very hurt over his cold feet--even if it has absolutely nothing to do with her, it''s hard not to take it personally. If I were her I would support him through his "issues" for 3 months, but he has to be making an effort to get over them. If he isn''t working to get over them or hasn''t made any progress, I''d know I gave it my all and cut my losses.

If she gives him an ultimatum and then walks away in an emotional outburst, she will most likely feel guilty and come back (with no commitment), which would be a mistake. She needs to think through this thoroughly and come up with a plan for herself...something she know she can stick with.

Good luck to her, it''s a crappy situation to be in.

 

[somethingshiny]

I haven''t read the rest of the responses because I didn''t want to be swayed from my original thoughts on the matter.

I don''t believe in giving ultimatums to a bf. A husband, sure, but not a bf. If she''s giving an ultimatum to get engaged or get lost, you can guess how the marriage would progress. She can only give herself an ultimatum or time limit on how long she''s willing to wait. If she''s willing to wait a few months or years, he may decide he''s ready. But, you can bet pushing a man into marriage is not a good idea.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I'm not ever a fan of ultimatums at all, especially when it comes to something like marriage. Every woman wants to know that she's loved, and wanted by her spouse, and I can't imagine your friend will feel that way if she forces her BF into marriage. She'll always wonder if wants to be married to her at all, and who needs that? There is real potential that every time they have a fight he'll throw it in her face that he should have left when he had the chance.

That last part is the experience of my SIL, who gave her DH a wedding date, and told him that he either show up, or pack his things and leave. From what she says this has gotten better, and he doesn't say those things anymore, but still...

The best advice I could give for your friend is to set her own internal deadline, and use that time to ponder the relationship, and distance herself emotionally from it and BF, as well as draw up some plans so that when she's ready to leave, she can. At the same time, I would advise that she tell her BF (if she hasn't done so already) that she needs marriage to be happy in a relationship, and that she is waiting as long as she can for him, but it won't be forever, and at some point she's emotionally ready, she will leave.

I don't think that last part is really an ultimatum, as she's just letting him know, honestly what the state of the relationship is, as it's something he might want to consider.

I think it will be very calming for your friend to know that the end is near, because a big part of the anxiety is the waiting and not knowing where you stand, and what you should plan for the future.

In the meantime I'm sending PS dust to your friend! I hope whatever happens with her relationship, that it's for the best, and she can be happy regardless.

 

[EyeElle]

Thank you SO much to everyone that took the time to write.

I wasn''t 100% sure about the ultimatum, but since so many people told her that, I thought that maybe my thinking was a little off, but I see that it isn''t.

I will talk to her today about what she personally thinks of it, to be honest I don''t know how she feels herself going that route.

Just to clear up, the ulimatim wasn''t for him to propose, it was for him to decide whether marriage was something he was even considering anymore. When she would ask if he still wanted to propose to her, his answer was always "I don''t know" So this ultimatum would be for him to essential "know" if he want to move things further or not. She just wants to know if there is such a future for them or not.

Right now she is in limbo, not knowing if he wants to be with her or not is very hard, especially since a montha ago they were picking out engagement rings.

My first reaction was like many of you pointed out, to give herself an ultimatum, how long is she willing to wait got an answer.

 

[swingirl]

I wouldn't want to feel that the only reason someone married me was because I gave them an ultimatum. Bad way to start off!

However, it this case it seems he has already made his choice. She just isn't acknowledging what it is.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Hmm, if the ultimatum is to "know," then she may very well make that decision for the both of them when SHE''s ready to make it. That''s all she can really do. Why let someone else decide her future?

 

[tlh]

Whoa! I just realized you said A WEEK! OMG, that is such a short time. That is as long as it takes me to #2 and that is just my digestive system, not MARRIAGE... WOWZA!

Ok, that is WHOA horsey, pull on the reigns. I am all for a woman making herself a priority, and making a life plan w/o the stalling partner... but A WEEK for him to decide? That is a little quick...

I think it is a gut check time for your friend. Maybe not talk to him for a week... and instead spend that time so SHE knows what SHE wants... and at the end of that week I''d let him know how she feels- lay it ALL out on the table... if he is not receptive, as you said, he keeps saying "I don''t know" , then she already has her answer, and she is trying to salvage something that he may have checked out of already, and she should move on. The week is for your friend, not him. If he isn''t receptive, she should end it. If he runs after her, great. If he doesn''t, well she just saved herself a lot of time and heartache.

Now I am just going w/ what you tell me... ultimately the decision is hers. She needs to realize that and take control of her destiny. It is hard waiting for someone who is one foot in. I don''t like to rush that type of commitment, marriage, but if he is only one foot in for the RELATIONSHIP in general, I think it is a waste of her time. A week won''t salvage that.

Best wishes to your friend. This is a difficult situation that she is in, and it is painful when dealing with your heart. Especially when you''ve given such a huge part of yourself, and you feel the other person has remained in tact. HUGS!

 

[musey]

Honestly, I can''t imagine a mature relationship in which an ultimatum is a good idea. That''s obviously colored by my own personality and how I handle (a) relationship(s) though.

To me, if a relationship is healthy and mature enough to lead toward marriage, then there will be no need for ultimatums. There will be need for lots of discussion on the relationship and its future, but not "marry me or else." It''s difficult for me to picture that type of ultimatum having any productive purpose.

New England Lady had an interesting situation, which totally called for an internal deadline (ETA: I see she already posted about it, good!), but to me that is wholly different from an ultimatum.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Never a good idea IMHO.

 

[steph72276]

Never a good idea. I wouldn''t want to be married to my husband because I said he "had" to propose to me or I''m leaving. If he loves her and wants to spend the rest of his life with her, he will propose. If not, she needs to move on. I think she should have a conversation with him about her feelings and express her desire that she wants to move forward in the relationship and see where he is. At that point, she can decide to continue investing her time in the relationship or if she needs to move on.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/26/2009 12:45:13 PM
Author: Sizzle

Date: 1/26/2009 12:35:12 PM
Author:EyeElle
Hi All,

A friend of mine is going through some difficult things with her bf. They were about to get engaged when he suddenly had second thoughts, and now he can''t decide what he wants. This has been going on for a while and its time to make a move.

She has been told by many to give him an ultimatum .... either he decides by the end of the week what he wants to do, or she makes the decidion for him and she leaves him.

What do you guys think about giving ultimatums??? Do you think its a good push for him or will it backfire???
Do you think its a good idea to give ultimatums in general??

Just looking for some feeback, I am not sure how to help her anymore

I think if someone isn''t ready they aren''t ready. An ultimatium to me is not inline with ADULT who want to be married. I would not want to FORCE someone into marrying me. That being said, If she needs an answer for her own self by a certain day, I don''t think there''s a need to express this to him. When he tells her he''s not ready, she needs to tell him that she needs some space and needs to move on. PERIOD, and who knows what the future will hold. I would not let someone else dictate what''s going to be MY future.

i agree, not a good idea.

 

[Miranda]

Ultimatiums are rarely a good idea. I''m assuming they have talked about whatever is holding him back. I''ll give my opinion based on the fact that you say this has been going on for a while. If he says he can''t decide what he wants it sounds like he''s already made a decision. He''s probably just tip-toeing around the issue. Frankly, I''d just dump the guy. !@#$ or get of the pot.

 

[soocool]

Ultimatums are fine as long as you are true to your word and willing to accept the consequences!

I gave my husband an ultimatum when we dated for 6 years and couldn''t quite make up his mind.When he told his friend what I said, his friend asked if we break up would it be ok if he asked me out. My husband looked at him puzzled and his friend told him that all his friends thought he was crazy not to marry me and they were waiting for us to break up so that they could ask me out. (I thought that was so sweet and now I know why they always wanted to hangout with us when we were dating. Suffice it to say, my husband dumped all his old friends).

 

[cara]

In this particular case, I think an ultimatum is a bad idea. But being left eternally in limbo, does he want me/does he not, is also excruciating and unfair to the female half. She does need to force a resolution, to be fair to herself if no other reason. And her boyfriend owes it to her to articulate an explanation of what is going on in his head and when it is likely to be resolved.

Is he having doubts about her, or marriage in general? Does he want to be with her but not marry her? Why or why not? Does he anticipate wanting to marry her ever? If so, when? How long should she be prepared to wait? Etc. Do they line up on other things such that waiting around is useful? How long is she prepared to wait out his doubts?

The reason not to give an ultimatum in this case is that it would not be helpful. No good getting a guy to marry you just because he feels pressured. A week is the wrong timeframe for this sort of thing. But, at the same time, I think the guy owes the girl some answers. A week is the right sort of time frame if he is having doubts about being with her in general. But if it is just general hesitation about marriage, he owes her a detailed explanation and timeline of when he expects to be in a position to make a better decision. And she can of course say that she is only prepared to wait so long, if in fact she is only prepared to wait so long. But ultimatums are pretty harsh tools, and of course only effective if you are fully prepared to implement them and would not consider that outcome "backfiring".

 

[soocool]

Just wanted to add something else.

Marriage is about 2 people who want the same things and are willing to talk to as well as listen to each other,and a whole lot more.. They want to be married, etc. These are things to be discussed while you are dating and not just assumed because you have invested a lot of years in the relationship.

After 6 years I wanted to get married. Heck, I wanted to get married after 2 years, but he wasn''t ready and could not explain it to me. I stayed with him, because I loved him and I felt he loved me too. But each time I heard another friend or aquaintance got engaged I was so dumfounded as to what was wrong with me and it affected my self confidence among other things. I had had enough! I was never the wimp and here he was controlling what I wanted in life while he was perfectly happy doing his own thing. So when I had enough, I told him what I wanted and if he did not want the same them I am not wasting anymore time time waiting for him to decide. So while I did not give him a timeline, I did say that I was not promising to be faithful to him and that if asked out by someone else I would not feel guilty in accepting and going out with that person since we are not committed (or at least he wasn''t). I guess that statement and what his friend said when he told him that was just enough for him to realize that he could lose me. It worked for us, but I will tell you that if he did not want to marry me, I would be out of that relationship.

I will say this also, once he asked me to marry him, he was an entirely different person, who really wanted to be married. I could not be happier coming up on our 20th anniversary.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 1/26/2009 2:32:21 PM
Author: vespergirl
I think giving an ultimatum is approaching the situation the wrong way. For instance, if she''s not happy because they are not married yet, it''s about doing what she can to get herself on the path to happiness. She should just leave, telling him something like this,''Look, I really am ready to get married and have children, and since you are not, I need to be on my own and find someone else who''s a better fit for me, and for my current goals in life.'' Then go. If he comes to her and wants to be with her, great. If not, that''s also a good situation. Now she''s single, and can try to find someone who is also interested in settling down.

Ditto to this. She just needs to say she is sorry he isn''t sure what he wants and she is going to move on and give him space. That is sooo much better than backing him into a corner by giving some deadline. Either he comes after her or he doesn''t. And she''s better off knowing sooner than later. I do not get AT ALL these couples who "date" for 10 years with no commitment, yet the girl is very much wanting to get married!

 

[elle_chris]

I think it depends on their situation.

For instance, I knew someone that was with her boyfriend for three years. Lived together 2 of them, had his sister stay with them for 5 months while she helped to support her. Then his mom came for a two month visit (she''s from europe) and my friend was left with the responsibility of driving her around to doctors, (she was sick), helping her shop (she doesn''t speak very good enlgish) and a load of other things.
In other words, her and her boyfriend were pretty much married but without the license.

A few weeks before his mom was scheduled to go back home she broke. Gave him a time frame of two weeks to decide if he''s serious enough about her to get married. It took him 24 hours to say yes. He wanted to marry her but just needed that push. Four months later they were married, 4 1/2 years later they''re still together and are both very happy. So yes, I sometimes think an ultimatum is the best thing for both people involved.

But she was ready to walk had he said no. It would of killed her at first, but she understood that once those words were out of her mouth, there was no going back.

Only your friend really knows if she''s ready to leave if he says no. Is she honestly ready to do that?