10 days to change my mind!

[nixx]

I have 10 days left to change my mind. FI gave me the freedom to choose my own ring but I never thought it would be this hard! about 3 weeks ago, I had to choose between a .74 D VVS2 (left) and .8 G VS2 diamond(right). I had my jeweller send photos to me as their showroom was 110miles from where I live. On the photo below the G VVS2 looks cloudy from the side so I went for the left one. But it kept me thinking as a lot of people say that it’s such an overkill. I’m just worrying that if I put it side by side with another diamond that it will look yellow-ish. But from the HCA tool, the .74 only has very good and scored 2.8 while the .80 has excellent written all over it. I have been assured that the diamond is eye clean but I’m scared about it looking yellow and cloudy. Any thoughts?

 

[SimoneDi]

Please post the GiA reports for both stones(assuming they have GIA reports). And also, how are both stones priced?

We can’t tell much from your photos without further details.

 

[nixx]

P.S. I think the .80 is slightly higher but my jeweller would let me swap it without additional cost. gem size of .74 is 5.82 - 5.78 x 3.59

 

[SimoneDi]

Neither of these would be my choice.

The 0.8 G VS1 has a very low crown angle and low crown, so fire will be reduced.

The 0.7 D VVS2 doesn’t have complimentary angles. Crown angle of 35 usually doesn’t pair well with pavilion angle of 41.

Without an ASET both stones are a NO for me.

Can you return them both and have either your jeweler source you a well cut diamond or if you are open to working with other jewelers, we can show you other options as well?

What is your budget for the stone? Also, have you seen lower colors H/I? Do you know your actual color sensitivity? High colors are great for those that appreaciate them, but if you can’t distinguish D from an H, then might as well get a larger lower colored diamond.

 

[tyty333]

They would both be a no for me also. Unless you are uber color sensitive a G would not be considered yellow to the general population. Actually, G is
one of the more popular colors with respect to budget and still being "white".

Cheat sheet for numbers
depth 60-62.3
table 54-58 *most perfer on the smaller side for more fire (as in not 5
crown 34-35 degrees
pavilion 40.6 - 41 degrees (34 crown pairs better with 41 pavilion; 35 crown pairs better with 40.6 pavilion)

You would have learned a lot about your tolerances if you could have gone to see the stones in person.

 

[lambskin]

Since you do not want to reveal the actual price-what is the % of one stone's price over the other? i.e the D stone is 20% more expensive than the G stone.

 

[sledge]

Really dislike the G VS2. That 31.5 crown is way too shallow. We typically try to pair a shallow crown with a steep pavilion or vice versa. But in this case, the variance is too great. As already explained, it will lack fire and life. Additionally with a 41 pavilion it makes me nervous as GIA rounds & averages the values that we find on the report and at 41.2 funky things can start to happen.

The D VVS2 is an interesting combo. The steep 35 crown can work, but needs to be paired with a more complimentary shallow 40.6 pavilion. Or the opposite could work, a shallow 34 crown paired with a steep 41 pavilion would be complimentary and maybe a stunner (again, assuming we don't cross that 41.2 plane). It can be very difficult in general to find an ideal performing stone with a 41 pavilion.

I personally wouldn't be pursuing either of these stones. If you must choose one I'd lean more towards the 35/41 but would really want to see an ASET image of the stone first. I think there will be issues with both of them.

Here are some possible alternates for your consideration. If you must deal with your local guy, ask him to check on these stones and force him to meet or beat the prices as well. FYI, these proportions are very strong and should result in an ideal stone, but it's always good practice to ask for an idealscope or ASET image, if possible.

0.82ct F VS1 @ $3,896
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.82-carat-f-vs1-yd5064830

56 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 75 LGF. HCA score of 0.8. Measures 5.97 x 6.01, which is slightly big for it's carat weight. I'd prefer to see a 40.7 or 40.8 pavilion, but this is likely a good stone either way.

0.82ct G VS1 @ $3,521
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.82-carat-g-vs1-yd4882257
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

Available at two retailers. Yadav is cheapest & listed, but you could easily get FourMine to price match.

56 table, 61.8 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. HCA score of 1.3. Measures 5.97 x 6.02, which again is great size for the weight. Just one step down on color, but more preferable and complimentary crown/pavilion angle combo IMO than the F VS1 above. If you don't need F color, I'd rather save $400 and get this one.

0.76 D VS1 @ $3,760
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R76-83Z501462?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

56 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. HCA score of 1.3. Measures 5.85 x 5.86. LOL, sound like a broken record here. Lovely proportions. Good value for a D VS1 IMO.


0.76 D VS2 @ $3,900
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R76-506593941?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

56 table, 62 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. HCA score of 1.3. Measures 5.82 x 5.85. Same table and a crown/pavilion combo as others which will be lovely. Not sure why the other D VS1 is cheaper as I would choose that one over this one but I wanted you to have a second D option.

0.75 F VS2 @ $3,310
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R75-425789867?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

56 table, 61.3 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 depth & 75 LGF. HCA score of 1.2. 5.84 x 5.86, which is a little better than average for the carat weight. Because depth is a little shallower, you are gaining a little size on the spread. Awesome table & angle combo with good compromise on color and clarity for a nice price.

0.73 E VS2 @ $3,015
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.73-carat-e-vs2-yd5053422
https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

Available at two online retailers, both the same price.

56 table, 61.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 80 LGF. HCA score of 1.3. Measures 5.77 x 5.78, which is good for it's weight. Love this angle combo. Lots of fire. Good compromise in color, clarity and price IMO.

0.73 E VVS1 @ $3,796
https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-0.73-carat-e-vvs1-yd3283670

54 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF. HCA score 1.4. Measures 5.77 x 5.83. Maybe my favorite of the group, but I prefer smaller tables as they throw a smidge more fire. FYI, smaller tables = larger upper girdle facets, which is where rainbow light (fire) is produced. Lovely proportions. High color & high clarity for a reasonable price. Not sure why it's dated Jan 2018. Maybe a trade in? Would clarify and ask if they verified no damage, etc if so.

 

[lovedogs]

I also wouldn't pick either of these. Neither have proportions that suggest ideal performance. I would strongly suggest starting over with stones that were suggested, or having your jeweler only pull stones within the specs that were given above.

 

[blueMA]

Never use the HCA score to make a final selection between diamonds. HCA merely helps weed out potential poor performers looking at the simple 2d geometry, but beyond that it's not a selection tool nor could it always predict the actual performance.

I agree with Sledge - between the two, I'd rather go with the D from the look of the diamond and the diamond looks nice and bright. Having seen a few well-cut 35/41 stunners, I'll not say that the diamond is a dud, but without seeing a better more frontal photo or Ideascope/ASET image, this is a guess work with a high chance the proportions could result in leakage/obstruction.

If you can find a local Hearts On Fire store, I strongly suggest you go there and compare the stones side by side. If you prefer a superideal stone there, be sure to get a photo of its cert so that you may find a better alternative at better cost. If your eyes love the D in comparison, and if you feel you could trust your eyes, then that's all that matters.

 

[nixx]

Sorry guys, the reply is late. Both stones are around £3808 (tax included) I’m located in the UK so tax sucks. I’m scared of dipping to the VS downwards and I know I’m very sensitive with colour as I can see how yellow a stone is even in a B&M shop and those lights make you think they have an A+ stone. unfortunately I do not have an ASET image. Getting a stone from the US and have it shipped here will break my bank. I think the VVS2 reflects light well even in everyday lighting. I just look at it sometimes and think, I think I could go bigger.

 

[blueMA]

I just look at it sometimes and think, I think I could go bigger.

Then consider going down to an F color, especially if you're not happy with a G. D can be an overkill, and if you feel like you're compromising on the size, then go bigger while going down to VS1-VS2 clarity. Start over with your jeweler.

 

[Matilda]

CBI diamonds are available in the UK. It may be worth sending an email to see if they have anything in your budget and ct size/colour grade/clarity. I agree that F and VS is a good idea to get a larger stone.

https://www.diamondhousejewellery.com/diamonds/infinity/1/

https://www.durhamrose.com/crafted-by-infinity/

this thread is recent and could be of interest to you:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cbi-diamonds-which-of-these-are-the-best-option.243095/


Also WINK discusses certain clarity issues in the plots which could be useful

 

[sledge]

Since many of us are Americans here, I just wanted to take your original budget (shown in pounds) and put the Euro & USD conversions for reference. FYI, conversions are based on the date/time of this post and upon Google conversions. Actual conversion rate will vary based on actual date & bank utilized.

• Pounds: £3,808
• Euros: €4,360
  
• USD: $4,987

According to the JA tax & duty calculator, it looks like it costs about 20.22% to import a loose diamond into the UK. For a completed piece (stone + setting) then this jumps up to about 23.30%.

https://www.jamesallen.com/tax-calculator/

Ultimately, this means that if you were interested in any of the stones I posted, then you can actually afford to buy them and have them shipped to you. I can understand if you don't want to do this, but it's a possibility.

Budget after taxes & duties:

• Pounds: £3,808 - 20.22% (see below) = £3,038
• Euros: €4,360 - 20.22% (see below) = €3,479
  
• USD: $4,987 - 20.22% (see below) = $3,979

Actually, all the stones I listed above would fall within the $3,979 threshold.

 

[sledge]

FYI, earlier when I posted all those stones I wasn't sure if you'd actually buy from those sources, but I wanted to show you what was available and the prices. These stones are part of what we call "virtual inventory" meaning a supplier owns them and makes them available to multiple vendors like your local jeweler. So there is a strong possibility your local guy can actually get these stones for you. The websites I showed may give you some leverage to negotiate a better price.

Also @Matilda mentioned a great possibility, which is Crafted by Infinity (CBI) diamonds. These stones are really special. They are precision cut and have hearts & arrows (H&A) symmetry. These type of stones make up about 1-2% of the entire diamond population. They are extremely well cut and come with some fantastic upgrade programs, etc. I would absolutely consider these if I were you.

http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/

I would like to further explain that CBI utilizes select dealers to distribute their specialty cut stones. In the US, a very popular and well respected dealer is High Performance Diamonds (HPD). In the UK, you have @Durham Rose and Diamond House, as already mentioned.

http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/web/locations/index.html

One of the things I like about the way CBI structured their network is that each dealer has access to the same inventory and offers the same stones for the same prices. Some of the international dealers will even offer the stones with VAT included which makes it a particularly easy transaction for folks like yourself. I've helped a few people in UK with such a transaction.

I mentioned all these to show you some of their stones they have available. I noticed that Durham Rose & Diamond House doesn't have online inventories to search, so I utilized HPD and Antwerp based CBI dealer, Fortez. Again, because the way the CBI dealer network is structured, whatever stones you see on either of these sites would be available at the UK dealers. HPD is quoted in USD and does not include VAT. Fortez is quoted in Euros and includes 21% VAT.

CBI 0.73ct F VS1
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/9233/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9233

CBI 0.71ct E VS1
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/8378/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8378

CBI 0.71ct E VVS2
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10656/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10656

CBI 0.70ct D VS2
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/9377/detail.htm
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9377

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

VVS2 reflects light well

the reflection of light is not linked to clarity.
It depends on the CUT .
The clarities that will have a negative effect on light return are generally below Si. Some rare constellations are exceptions. VS however is still very safe. With CBI all si stones are vetted and safe regarding light return and I believe they are also vetted to be eye clean (they even find the rare unicorn of eye clean si2).

yellow a stone is

Regarding colour you need to compare GIA certed stones.
In your case I'd suggest you read up a little more on Pricescope and would strongly suggest to contact Durham rose.