strmrdr
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10 all time most dangerous toys
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Cehrabehra
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divergrrl
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Boy, you must really not like kids....Not to be mean to you or anything, but you always seem to post articles about how we''ve become "too paranoid", and while that may be true, its because lots of kids were dying, getting seriously hurt, and sick!
Did you not see the article about the Seattle toddler who died this year because he swallowed 2 magnets from the toy "magnetix" and it caused a fatal intestional blockage? Scary thing about that is that is the symptoms are slow to appear & by the time they do, it can be too late.
I know we can get nostalgic for the good old days, but I am walking around with a huge scar on my otherwise cute pucker that came from a METAL, (yes sharp metal) winder on the back of a muscial stuffed animal. Yup, 5 stitches after falling on it when I was 5. Oh that was a JOY. I really loved getting a shot of novacaine in MY LIP! I remember it vividly.
Or even better, was my 6 month old brother going down the stairs in one of those baby death trap walkers. I had just left the door open (I was 6) & my mom turned her back for, oh, a nano-second, and down he fell. We thought he was dead.
I remember when you posted an article about children''s play structures becoming too safe, and now, as a 36 year old mother of a calm (yes calm, and well behaved thank you very much) 2 year old toddler, I can tell you from climbing on them with him that they are not safe and a broken arm/leg/collarbone/dislocated shoulder waiting to happen.
My stepmother was a 1st grade teacher for 32 years, just retired, and she agrees with me...things are safer, but not safe enough.
yeah yeah, y''all might have grown up fine without carseats, seatbelts, and managed just fine. Guess what? I think you were lucky! Just remember, home accidents & car accidents claim the lives of more children every year than ALL childhood illnesses combined.
And I''m not some nervous nelly that won''t let her child have fun. Heck, he''s getting skis/snowboard for his 4th birthday & I can''t wait until he''s old enough to want to scuba dive with momma. But I do believe in learning from history, our mistakes, obvious dangers and not taking foolish risks with precious children.
And I don''t remember, but do you even have any? Because if you don''t then it is very odd to me where your opinions come from.
One thing about children, is that your "Pre-parental notions" of childrearing rarely survive intact by the time you actually have one. Little ones change you, you worry about their life and limb. Someone might as well rip your heart out of your chest, give it legs, and you just have to watch it walk off...and hopefully not get hurt.
Cheers,
A good, responsible, loving mother.
Jeannine
Did you not see the article about the Seattle toddler who died this year because he swallowed 2 magnets from the toy "magnetix" and it caused a fatal intestional blockage? Scary thing about that is that is the symptoms are slow to appear & by the time they do, it can be too late.
I know we can get nostalgic for the good old days, but I am walking around with a huge scar on my otherwise cute pucker that came from a METAL, (yes sharp metal) winder on the back of a muscial stuffed animal. Yup, 5 stitches after falling on it when I was 5. Oh that was a JOY. I really loved getting a shot of novacaine in MY LIP! I remember it vividly.
Or even better, was my 6 month old brother going down the stairs in one of those baby death trap walkers. I had just left the door open (I was 6) & my mom turned her back for, oh, a nano-second, and down he fell. We thought he was dead.
I remember when you posted an article about children''s play structures becoming too safe, and now, as a 36 year old mother of a calm (yes calm, and well behaved thank you very much) 2 year old toddler, I can tell you from climbing on them with him that they are not safe and a broken arm/leg/collarbone/dislocated shoulder waiting to happen.
My stepmother was a 1st grade teacher for 32 years, just retired, and she agrees with me...things are safer, but not safe enough.
yeah yeah, y''all might have grown up fine without carseats, seatbelts, and managed just fine. Guess what? I think you were lucky! Just remember, home accidents & car accidents claim the lives of more children every year than ALL childhood illnesses combined.
And I''m not some nervous nelly that won''t let her child have fun. Heck, he''s getting skis/snowboard for his 4th birthday & I can''t wait until he''s old enough to want to scuba dive with momma. But I do believe in learning from history, our mistakes, obvious dangers and not taking foolish risks with precious children.
And I don''t remember, but do you even have any? Because if you don''t then it is very odd to me where your opinions come from.
One thing about children, is that your "Pre-parental notions" of childrearing rarely survive intact by the time you actually have one. Little ones change you, you worry about their life and limb. Someone might as well rip your heart out of your chest, give it legs, and you just have to watch it walk off...and hopefully not get hurt.
Cheers,
A good, responsible, loving mother.
Jeannine
strmrdr
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strmrdr
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divergrrl:
The question of "toy" or "activity" safety really boils down to a question of how much of what type of risk to expose a child too.
An infant who does not understand anything is to be protected with a high degree of care. Yet, you will never be able to eliminate everything that they could put in their mouth and swallow causing problems.
As the child grows older they can handle more risk - and I would propose that you need to expose them to that risk - and educate them about it in order for them to develope into functional adults. Is not part of raising a child teaching them how to judge risk and act accordingly when they are an adult. If you do not do this - if you always protect them - then they will not know how to act appropriatly as adults - and I would say that their parents failed them.
In the process of development of a child - your child - you will have to accept that they are going to have to learn some things the hard way; and that their may well be accidents. Something like 99.9999% of all childhood accidents that the children get into are survived, the kid heals, and moves on in life (and if you don''t make a bid deal of it - neither will the child).
I lauged at many of the thins on this top 10 list. Jarts (yard darts) are safe if you teach kids that they can cause damage and injury unless you treat them right. I had a set when I was a teenager and we had a lot of fun with them - and we knew that you did not toss them towards people or over houses where you were not sure what was on the other side of the house (not to mention causing a roof leak). There is so little radiation in those radiation kits to make them meaninless. It is very likely that you are getting more radiation from your smoke detectors in your house or appartment than a person would ever get from those kits.
I agree with Storm on the guns. Children can be taught gun safety (and responsibility) and can very safely play with them - at the right age. I also believe that all children and adults should be taught a baisc gun safety course. If your child comes upon a gun laying on the sidwalk or in the road - do they know how to handle it safely (and if not - who is responsible if they then pick it up and shoot someone "accidently").
I agree with banning toys that could unexpectedly shatter or cause injury - or a few other things. Other toys really just need to be separated to children who are developing the right level of maturity and the hazards and risk explained to children. I saw more baseballs and rocks thrown through windows than superballs (and I loved superballs). I saw more large marbles (the same size as the small superball) get swallowed than small superballs (the large ones cannot be swallowed). Yet nobody has banned baseballs or marbles.... Why ban the superballs? I have no clue (and I always wondered why they disappered). I used to cast lead figures, then sinkers and weighted hooks to make fishing flys from.
So protect them from risk they cannot control either becuase the toy is unpredictable or they cannot comprehend and control the risk.
Let them use items with more risk at the appropriate age with the appropriate training on what the risk are and how to control it - so they can develop into properely functioning adults.
Ensure they are taught about other risk with certain things and their responsibility on the issues (guns, sex, drugs, etc).
Overprotect them - and they will never fully develop - and will be setup for the possibility of a much larger tradegdy when they are older and beyond your influence.
Now I am sure that some people are going to jump in here and go: but Perry - you have no kids. Correct (at least none that I know of). However, I have been intamantely involved with a number of neices, nephews, and the adoptive "uncle" of several others (in one case the key babysitter service when I was long term unemployed). I would do nothing to hurt those kids and everything reasonable to protect them. Yet, I also understand that you have to accept some risk with normal activities - and properely tech kids at the right ages on other things. I have been blessed that some of these kids would come to me to discuss certain issues or to learn certain things (sometimes with their parents encouragement). I have been equally blessed in that some parents have asked me for advice on how to approach certain issues with their kids when they got older - and then essentially implemented that advice.
You have an awsome responsibility in the years ahead. Part of that responsibility is to teach your child how to appropriately handle risk and issues. You cannot do that if you protect them from those risk and from the issues.
Another think to be aware of is the "scare mongers" who claim that all kinds of things are deadly and dangerous. Radiation (low level), guns, lead, mercury, and the list goes on and on. Yet millions of children played with those items and developed into adults without any noticable effects, and we live in a naturally radioactive world (and you and I and everyone else is radioactive). Please do some "reality" check on what the real risk are - not some hypothetical laboratory risk based on the fact that you can detect something. Gee, if millions of people cast lead figures or lead sinkers and did not get lead poisioning in the past - why would you think that lead is so dangerous (just one example). Now - lead improperely handled can be dangerous - and you can get lead poisioning from it if improperly handled; yet proper handling techniques are relatively simple - which is why millions of children successfully worked with it with little training without getting lead poisioning. I could go on and on about some of the things the scare mongers put out. I would suggest that it is also your job to discren the truth behind a lot of those items. Just because people - or some organization - says something; does not mean it is true - or even partially true.
Perry
The question of "toy" or "activity" safety really boils down to a question of how much of what type of risk to expose a child too.
An infant who does not understand anything is to be protected with a high degree of care. Yet, you will never be able to eliminate everything that they could put in their mouth and swallow causing problems.
As the child grows older they can handle more risk - and I would propose that you need to expose them to that risk - and educate them about it in order for them to develope into functional adults. Is not part of raising a child teaching them how to judge risk and act accordingly when they are an adult. If you do not do this - if you always protect them - then they will not know how to act appropriatly as adults - and I would say that their parents failed them.
In the process of development of a child - your child - you will have to accept that they are going to have to learn some things the hard way; and that their may well be accidents. Something like 99.9999% of all childhood accidents that the children get into are survived, the kid heals, and moves on in life (and if you don''t make a bid deal of it - neither will the child).
I lauged at many of the thins on this top 10 list. Jarts (yard darts) are safe if you teach kids that they can cause damage and injury unless you treat them right. I had a set when I was a teenager and we had a lot of fun with them - and we knew that you did not toss them towards people or over houses where you were not sure what was on the other side of the house (not to mention causing a roof leak). There is so little radiation in those radiation kits to make them meaninless. It is very likely that you are getting more radiation from your smoke detectors in your house or appartment than a person would ever get from those kits.
I agree with Storm on the guns. Children can be taught gun safety (and responsibility) and can very safely play with them - at the right age. I also believe that all children and adults should be taught a baisc gun safety course. If your child comes upon a gun laying on the sidwalk or in the road - do they know how to handle it safely (and if not - who is responsible if they then pick it up and shoot someone "accidently").
I agree with banning toys that could unexpectedly shatter or cause injury - or a few other things. Other toys really just need to be separated to children who are developing the right level of maturity and the hazards and risk explained to children. I saw more baseballs and rocks thrown through windows than superballs (and I loved superballs). I saw more large marbles (the same size as the small superball) get swallowed than small superballs (the large ones cannot be swallowed). Yet nobody has banned baseballs or marbles.... Why ban the superballs? I have no clue (and I always wondered why they disappered). I used to cast lead figures, then sinkers and weighted hooks to make fishing flys from.
So protect them from risk they cannot control either becuase the toy is unpredictable or they cannot comprehend and control the risk.
Let them use items with more risk at the appropriate age with the appropriate training on what the risk are and how to control it - so they can develop into properely functioning adults.
Ensure they are taught about other risk with certain things and their responsibility on the issues (guns, sex, drugs, etc).
Overprotect them - and they will never fully develop - and will be setup for the possibility of a much larger tradegdy when they are older and beyond your influence.
Now I am sure that some people are going to jump in here and go: but Perry - you have no kids. Correct (at least none that I know of). However, I have been intamantely involved with a number of neices, nephews, and the adoptive "uncle" of several others (in one case the key babysitter service when I was long term unemployed). I would do nothing to hurt those kids and everything reasonable to protect them. Yet, I also understand that you have to accept some risk with normal activities - and properely tech kids at the right ages on other things. I have been blessed that some of these kids would come to me to discuss certain issues or to learn certain things (sometimes with their parents encouragement). I have been equally blessed in that some parents have asked me for advice on how to approach certain issues with their kids when they got older - and then essentially implemented that advice.
You have an awsome responsibility in the years ahead. Part of that responsibility is to teach your child how to appropriately handle risk and issues. You cannot do that if you protect them from those risk and from the issues.
Another think to be aware of is the "scare mongers" who claim that all kinds of things are deadly and dangerous. Radiation (low level), guns, lead, mercury, and the list goes on and on. Yet millions of children played with those items and developed into adults without any noticable effects, and we live in a naturally radioactive world (and you and I and everyone else is radioactive). Please do some "reality" check on what the real risk are - not some hypothetical laboratory risk based on the fact that you can detect something. Gee, if millions of people cast lead figures or lead sinkers and did not get lead poisioning in the past - why would you think that lead is so dangerous (just one example). Now - lead improperely handled can be dangerous - and you can get lead poisioning from it if improperly handled; yet proper handling techniques are relatively simple - which is why millions of children successfully worked with it with little training without getting lead poisioning. I could go on and on about some of the things the scare mongers put out. I would suggest that it is also your job to discren the truth behind a lot of those items. Just because people - or some organization - says something; does not mean it is true - or even partially true.
Perry
strmrdr
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firebirdgold
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strmrdr
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divergrrl
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Perry--from your post:
"Now I am sure that some people are going to jump in here and go: but Perry - you have no kids. Correct (at least none that I know of). However, I have been intamantely involved with a number of neices, nephews, and the adoptive "uncle" of several others (in one case the key babysitter service when I was long term unemployed). I would do nothing to hurt those kids and everything reasonable to protect them. Yet, I also understand that you have to accept some risk with normal activities - and properely tech kids at the right ages on other things. I have been blessed that some of these kids would come to me to discuss certain issues or to learn certain things (sometimes with their parents encouragement). I have been equally blessed in that some parents have asked me for advice on how to approach certain issues with their kids when they got older - and then essentially implemented that advice."
What I highlighted illustrates what I say. I know some folks say you don't have to burn at the stake to empathize with Joan of Arc, but I used to say the exact same thing as you until I had a kid. And you query all the mommas & poppas out there & they will tell you the same thing...oh yea, you say all those things until you have a munchkin of your own.
My husband is a great big tough guy. "Boys should be raised to be men!" was his mantra when we were childless. He told me if he had a boy he wasn't going to baby him, kiss him, or let him be soft.
HA! (I kept my mouth shut, because my dh is a very nice man above all else).
Well, enter our son. My husband can't get enough of him, kissing him every chance he can get, cuddling him, babying him, singing to him, worrying to the high heavens, I have to remind him to let our son fall from time to time & work out his own battles.
I'm not saying you can't have an idea or two. I'm just saying you truly have no idea until you get here. I am not normally exclusionary, but its a phenomenon, and most of the parents I know get a pretty good chuckle at our own expenses, because we can admit we really DIDN'T GET IT, and were so ignorant of the total emotional seismic shift that parenthood plays on your psyche.
And neices, nephew, baby siblings, etc. you practically raised yourself? Not even close. Been there, done that...
And I do agree with you, you have to let your kids learn natural consequences at appropriate ages to certain things. I do that now. But again, I can protect my 2 year old from toys he's not ready for, but lets pretend, I have a baby in two years...how do I protect the infant from the older siblings toys? And don't think you can keep them out of each other's stuff. Yeah right. You have a better chance of getting a pair of pantyhose on a cat.
I'm just sayin'......you gotta walk in these shoes to know, its a good thing that people are more paranoid when it comes to child safety.....DUDE....less kids die now. Something is working.
And on that note, a very happy holiday to you, you never know, maybe Santa will bring you some lawn darts!!!
Cheerfully Yours,
Jeannine
"Now I am sure that some people are going to jump in here and go: but Perry - you have no kids. Correct (at least none that I know of). However, I have been intamantely involved with a number of neices, nephews, and the adoptive "uncle" of several others (in one case the key babysitter service when I was long term unemployed). I would do nothing to hurt those kids and everything reasonable to protect them. Yet, I also understand that you have to accept some risk with normal activities - and properely tech kids at the right ages on other things. I have been blessed that some of these kids would come to me to discuss certain issues or to learn certain things (sometimes with their parents encouragement). I have been equally blessed in that some parents have asked me for advice on how to approach certain issues with their kids when they got older - and then essentially implemented that advice."
What I highlighted illustrates what I say. I know some folks say you don't have to burn at the stake to empathize with Joan of Arc, but I used to say the exact same thing as you until I had a kid. And you query all the mommas & poppas out there & they will tell you the same thing...oh yea, you say all those things until you have a munchkin of your own.
My husband is a great big tough guy. "Boys should be raised to be men!" was his mantra when we were childless. He told me if he had a boy he wasn't going to baby him, kiss him, or let him be soft.
HA! (I kept my mouth shut, because my dh is a very nice man above all else).
Well, enter our son. My husband can't get enough of him, kissing him every chance he can get, cuddling him, babying him, singing to him, worrying to the high heavens, I have to remind him to let our son fall from time to time & work out his own battles.
I'm not saying you can't have an idea or two. I'm just saying you truly have no idea until you get here. I am not normally exclusionary, but its a phenomenon, and most of the parents I know get a pretty good chuckle at our own expenses, because we can admit we really DIDN'T GET IT, and were so ignorant of the total emotional seismic shift that parenthood plays on your psyche.
And neices, nephew, baby siblings, etc. you practically raised yourself? Not even close. Been there, done that...
And I do agree with you, you have to let your kids learn natural consequences at appropriate ages to certain things. I do that now. But again, I can protect my 2 year old from toys he's not ready for, but lets pretend, I have a baby in two years...how do I protect the infant from the older siblings toys? And don't think you can keep them out of each other's stuff. Yeah right. You have a better chance of getting a pair of pantyhose on a cat.
I'm just sayin'......you gotta walk in these shoes to know, its a good thing that people are more paranoid when it comes to child safety.....DUDE....less kids die now. Something is working.
And on that note, a very happy holiday to you, you never know, maybe Santa will bring you some lawn darts!!!
Cheerfully Yours,
Jeannine
psaddict
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You say the 6 month old fell down stairs in a child walker deathtrap.. it sounds like the deathtrap was the stairs, not the walker. It seems like having stairs in the home causes a lot of accidents, I know when I was 9 I fell down the stairs in my house and broke half of my front tooth off (permanent tooth, it's half fake now!) Does this mean that parents who choose to have a 2 story home are evil? I also bonked my head at least once on my parents hard coffee table, while running around in the living room. Some people opt for those soft-topped coffee table/ottoman things. Does this mean they're uncaring parents?
I think that there are just risks in childhood, and you can't exactly turn your entire home into a padded cell. One parent may choose to let their child play with a toy you think is unsafe, and that parent may think that you're exposing your child to unnecessary risk by having stairs in the home, or think that something you are doing is unsafe. I do think that manufacturers shouldn't put out toys that are obviously dangerous such as lawn darts, but don't see a problem with having a range of toys, some which some parents may choose to boycott, and others may not.
I think that there are just risks in childhood, and you can't exactly turn your entire home into a padded cell. One parent may choose to let their child play with a toy you think is unsafe, and that parent may think that you're exposing your child to unnecessary risk by having stairs in the home, or think that something you are doing is unsafe. I do think that manufacturers shouldn't put out toys that are obviously dangerous such as lawn darts, but don't see a problem with having a range of toys, some which some parents may choose to boycott, and others may not.
divergrrl
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Hi psaddict!! Good question! I live in a 3 story 100 year old home. I affectionately call it the "baby deathtrap house". I have babygates and babygates and more babygates. I don''t own a babywalker for that very reason.
We used to have a hard coffee table, until a girlfriend of mine accidentally let go of my son & he banged his head on it pretty bad. We opted for a soft ottoman thing.
But no, parents who have stairs or hard coffee tables are not bad parents, not by any means. Its just what you want to deal with each day. I''m home 24/7 with Jake, so I''d like to be able to pee without having to worry about him falling down the stairs, or banging his head on the coffee table all the livelong day. So my house is baby-proofed to the hilt. But that is still no substitute for parental supervision, but as any parent can tell you, it''s physically impossible to watch them EVERY SECOND. (and yes, 99% of the time my son goes potty with me--sigh).
But at my parent''s homes? They put the poisons up and that''s about it. fireplaces, stairwells, coffee tables...all hard & unblocked. When I''m at my dad''s house, I have to really be on guard, and between my dad, step-mom, and myself, one of us always says "i have to go do whatever, who''s got Jake?". It works. Plus he gets a chance to learn "no, you can''t touch this, its gramma''s pretty, we just look".
We learn that at home too, but when I''m home all day with him, I prefer to choose my battles, so I babyproof.
Now most of my mommy friends who work have babyproofed less, but they have 2 hours at night and the weekends that they have to deal with it, so it easier to deal with when its not all day, every day.
But I get what you are saying, and its not that black & white. Do you have kids?
Cheers!
Jeannine
psaddict
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nope! I don't have kids. no nieces or nephews either. most of the time I spent around kids was around neighborhood children I babysat for a lot, and all of them lived in total deathtrap homes! Huge staircases with hard floors at the bottom, Nice but hard & sharp edged furniture.. you name it. I just look back with relief and am SO glad nothing happened to any of those kids on my watch! It seemed like no big deal to me at the time, but now I look back and think "they left a 1 year old, a 4 year old and a 7 year old in THAT house in the care of one 16 year old?"
Mara
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diver, i totally agree that if you don't have kids, you just don't get it. i don't have kids and most of the time i don't get it either, hehee. though i do know...when we got portia, we had to 'puppy proof' the house and we still have to think twice and make the effort to remember to do things like pen off the xmas tree when we leave presents under it so she can't get into them, or make sure that when we leave the house and leave her in the bottom 1/2 of downstairs that we close the bathroom door (i'm paranoid she will somehow fall into the toilet, i know it's silly)...that the ficus doesn't shed on the floor with her there alone (i'm afraid she will eat them and a lot of indoor plants are poisonous) etc. and gosh so many things were unsafe when we were young!!! kids are pretty resilient for the most part...i remember a time when my youngest sister ran into a birdbath and bonked her head really hard and fell down, we just started laughing (because we didn't want to scare her even though we were worried) and then she started laughing too and she was fine thank goodness. but i agree better safe than sorry. you don't have to pad the kid in 50 layers of protective bubble wrap, but some common sense can go a long way when parenting. i don't know how many 'recall' notices i have seen out and about for toys and things like that which turn out not to be safe. it's good for parents to know for the most part that other people ARE looking out for their kids as well.
psaddict
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It seems to me, though, that you shouldn''t just trust that companies are only putting out safe toys. You have to look at a toy yourself and decide if you think it''s safe and appropriate for your child, or if it could be a bit hazardous if played with incorrectly, but they could use it with supervision. Like any game that involves throwing or hitting balls.. could be dangerous if the children are unsupervised.
By the time a company recalls a product, your child could have been playing with it for several months already. It seems like parents just have to look at the toy themselves, decide if it''s safe and how much supervision is needed.
By the time a company recalls a product, your child could have been playing with it for several months already. It seems like parents just have to look at the toy themselves, decide if it''s safe and how much supervision is needed.
Mara
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strmrdr
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Amen
But that would require thinking and common sense and well common sense isnt common :}
Judging how well the child handles responsibility is a big part of it also.
Iv taught 6 year olds how to shoot that were safer than most adults and turned down teaching 12 year olds and 15 year olds because they were not trustworthy enough.
edit: I did teach them basic gun safety but would not teach them to shoot.
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While I agree that perhaps I don''t get some things. I think that others don''t get some things either.
The concept of toy recals often is not that the toy was really dangerous (sometimes it is); but more often that the toy was used improperely or by the wrong age group.
Just look to the so called "top 10 list" that started this thread. Only a few of those toys were actually dangerous in and of themselves (could cause unexpected injury or harm when used as would be normally expected to be used).
As far as child profing a house: Am I going to eliminate a number of things - or restrict them to above 3 or 4 ft. Of course. Am I going to change my furnature because it has hard edges that a kid could bump there head on. No. Serious injuries are rarely caused by furnature or things that kids run into. Dosn''t mean they won''t bump their head or or bruse themselves. I veiw that part of growing up - learning that some things are "hard" and hurt if you run into them. The vast majority of the children in the world (billions of them) grew up bumping into hard furnature.
The perspective here is what is normal and reasonable protection, what is over protection, and what is too little protection. We may disagree on where to draw the lines; but my observation is that people who tend to overprotect also tend to overreact to issues - which results in kids growing up that do not know how to properly assess risk and take appropriate responsibility.
My question is to ask your parents or grandparents if what you are doing is reasonable from a protection standpoint. I''m betting they are not worried about a few bumps and bruses or a lot of the things that make the news these days as "unsafe and deadly."
I also agree with storm about how some people and kids are very responsible - and others are not. I suspect that in the first case the kids were taught that they have to be responsible for somethings - and that with their being responsible that they would get more responsible. I also suspect that most of those kids have had pleanty of various bumps and bruses along the way.
Perry
The concept of toy recals often is not that the toy was really dangerous (sometimes it is); but more often that the toy was used improperely or by the wrong age group.
Just look to the so called "top 10 list" that started this thread. Only a few of those toys were actually dangerous in and of themselves (could cause unexpected injury or harm when used as would be normally expected to be used).
As far as child profing a house: Am I going to eliminate a number of things - or restrict them to above 3 or 4 ft. Of course. Am I going to change my furnature because it has hard edges that a kid could bump there head on. No. Serious injuries are rarely caused by furnature or things that kids run into. Dosn''t mean they won''t bump their head or or bruse themselves. I veiw that part of growing up - learning that some things are "hard" and hurt if you run into them. The vast majority of the children in the world (billions of them) grew up bumping into hard furnature.
The perspective here is what is normal and reasonable protection, what is over protection, and what is too little protection. We may disagree on where to draw the lines; but my observation is that people who tend to overprotect also tend to overreact to issues - which results in kids growing up that do not know how to properly assess risk and take appropriate responsibility.
My question is to ask your parents or grandparents if what you are doing is reasonable from a protection standpoint. I''m betting they are not worried about a few bumps and bruses or a lot of the things that make the news these days as "unsafe and deadly."
I also agree with storm about how some people and kids are very responsible - and others are not. I suspect that in the first case the kids were taught that they have to be responsible for somethings - and that with their being responsible that they would get more responsible. I also suspect that most of those kids have had pleanty of various bumps and bruses along the way.
Perry
MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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Well, I am a parent, so I have a few opinions here...
I laughed my butt off readings Storms post. OMG.. I had that belt buckle gun as a kid...LOL...
Sometimes, I am torn when it comes to my kids. I am much less protective than I was when my kids were 2 and 4. Kids need to be protected much more when they are 2 and 4. Childproof my house? A little when I my kids were little. Move my chemicals up to the top cabinets so they cannot reach, but if they get in the cabinets and pinch their finger...well, mommy told you not to do that. Betcha they won't do it again.
NOw, I understand your hesitation and protection Diver. it is a scarey scarey world out there. But I sometimes feel like I am cheating my kids. No more, "Be back by sunset" No more, "riding your bike forever, but check in every 4 hours." We are raising a country of Pu$$ys cause we are scared. OUr children will be scared. People get sued because the monkey bars are too high. Does anyone remember that cool slide, the metal one, that used to be on the playground? The one that just went up and up? Too high, no longer allowed. I would love my kids to have the chance to climb up that slide and feel like the are sliding so fast that when they reach the bottom they have to land on their butts instead of their feet. And remember those cool Merry-go-rounds? Nope, no more. Cause someone got hurt on it. I remember reading that someone tied it to the back of a car and took off to make it spin faster. The a teenage girl on it flew up in the air and died. Does that mean that we ban the merry go round? Sure, as long as we ban stupid teenagers too.
Kids do not respect danger, because they are not taught to. They are taught to be scared. Mommy and Daddy are scared, so when I get older and I turn stupid, I am going to tempt danger because I do not fear it?
Diver, I think that protecting your children at their age 2, and 4. is logical, and good. Most of these toys deserved to be banned. When we were kids, luck was part of it, but common sense was a huge part of it. Most kids lack it now... Life smarts.
As parents, we want to protect our children. Teach them from our mistakes, but we also are robbing them of the chance to learn. NO.. we as parents today, do NOT want our children to leanr that the stove is hot. But maybe just telling kids things is not good enough. I am conflicted and saddened.
When I read ab out recalls, I ask.. did the box not say five and up? Why is your 3 year old playing with it. Where are your parents?
When you mentioned playground equipment, I cringed, should we take THAT away from kids too? And yet, ever year, thousands of parents enter their kids into sports, broken arms, twisted knees, and we encourage the 11 year old with the 3rd stress fracture to "go gettum!!!" We are a country OBSESSED with a game that involved rushing a ball through a pack a big men that want to slam you to the ground, meanwhile we tell our children to stay away from magnets....
I laughed my butt off readings Storms post. OMG.. I had that belt buckle gun as a kid...LOL...
Sometimes, I am torn when it comes to my kids. I am much less protective than I was when my kids were 2 and 4. Kids need to be protected much more when they are 2 and 4. Childproof my house? A little when I my kids were little. Move my chemicals up to the top cabinets so they cannot reach, but if they get in the cabinets and pinch their finger...well, mommy told you not to do that. Betcha they won't do it again.
NOw, I understand your hesitation and protection Diver. it is a scarey scarey world out there. But I sometimes feel like I am cheating my kids. No more, "Be back by sunset" No more, "riding your bike forever, but check in every 4 hours." We are raising a country of Pu$$ys cause we are scared. OUr children will be scared. People get sued because the monkey bars are too high. Does anyone remember that cool slide, the metal one, that used to be on the playground? The one that just went up and up? Too high, no longer allowed. I would love my kids to have the chance to climb up that slide and feel like the are sliding so fast that when they reach the bottom they have to land on their butts instead of their feet. And remember those cool Merry-go-rounds? Nope, no more. Cause someone got hurt on it. I remember reading that someone tied it to the back of a car and took off to make it spin faster. The a teenage girl on it flew up in the air and died. Does that mean that we ban the merry go round? Sure, as long as we ban stupid teenagers too.
Kids do not respect danger, because they are not taught to. They are taught to be scared. Mommy and Daddy are scared, so when I get older and I turn stupid, I am going to tempt danger because I do not fear it?
Diver, I think that protecting your children at their age 2, and 4. is logical, and good. Most of these toys deserved to be banned. When we were kids, luck was part of it, but common sense was a huge part of it. Most kids lack it now... Life smarts.
As parents, we want to protect our children. Teach them from our mistakes, but we also are robbing them of the chance to learn. NO.. we as parents today, do NOT want our children to leanr that the stove is hot. But maybe just telling kids things is not good enough. I am conflicted and saddened.
When I read ab out recalls, I ask.. did the box not say five and up? Why is your 3 year old playing with it. Where are your parents?
When you mentioned playground equipment, I cringed, should we take THAT away from kids too? And yet, ever year, thousands of parents enter their kids into sports, broken arms, twisted knees, and we encourage the 11 year old with the 3rd stress fracture to "go gettum!!!" We are a country OBSESSED with a game that involved rushing a ball through a pack a big men that want to slam you to the ground, meanwhile we tell our children to stay away from magnets....
divergrrl
Ideal_Rock
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Perry: First highlighted area. I had to change out my coffee table. It was such a rustic piece, with jagged metal accents, that it nearly ripped my son''s face open when my girlfriend accidentally let go of him (thinking he could stand, and he wasn''t that coordinated yet). I am willing to be BIG MONEY that if you had an infant and you had the choice of A) having him have a disfiguring gash or B) changing out your coffee table to something a little more safe, you''d pick B. And cuz you don''t have kiddos, it''s hard to imagine. I used to sound JUST LIKE YOU.
And I hate to break it to you, but the deadliest accidents happen at home. I''ve said it once and I''ll say it before: Accidents claim more lives of more toddlers each year than ALL childhood illnesses combined. It''s common sense to prudently babyproof when you have a child who doesn''t really speak or understand. As they get older, sure you can do less and use words to teach them, but until then, well good luck with that!
Second Highlighted area: My parents were the first ones to say "are you planning on getting rid of that table?" and "when are you putting corner guards on your granite counter-top corners, Jake will be tall soon & those are toddler-head-gasher-openers".
My Sister-in-law has a strapping 20 year old 6ft College Football Scholarship Wide Reciever of a son & he was over here & pointed to my counters and said "you''d better put guards on those, or Jake is going to have a nasty scar like me, I ripped mine open on my parents tile counters". To which my SIL said "I never forgave myself for that accident, it was awful".
MINE: I think some parents are raising little sissies. I''m not. I may protect my child from harm that I think is greater than what I call "natural consequence". Harm that could maim, disable, disfigure, or KILL my child??? I''ll get rid of! A pinched finger, or a bonk on the noggin here or there? Well, stuff happens & I want him to learn not to do certain stuff.
All I''m saying is:
Just wait until those of you who "pooh-pooh" my views on this have kids. I''ll be the mom behind you in line at Babies R Us watching you buy those foam corner guards. I''ll be smiling too, oh cuz'' I''ve been there. And it has nothing to do with raising weenies, wimps, or cowards. My boy''s gonna be a nice man with a backbone, but in the meantime, I''m going to trust my common-sense attitude towards health and safety.
And I''ll see you guys at Babies R Us.
Have a Happy Holiday!!!
Respectfully yours,
Jeannine
divergrrl
Ideal_Rock
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Sharp granite counter corners, I have 5. And even if you teach your child not to run in the house, they still have balance issues well into their 3rd year & can trip...
Hence, corner guards on counter tops....
Coffee table with metal accents. Here I have the main "latch" covered by a pillow. But it was fine, I hated it anyway, (too rugged for my taste) and found a gorgeous tufted leather ottoman that feels good to put my feet on, as well as comfortable for guests to sit on, so everyone is a winner. But every edge on this stupid table had a jagged metal ornament, as well as the big hook & eye latches with sharp, rough cut corners.
Oh and my slate hearth has foam all around the edges now.
So you can all shake your heads and think I'm a nervous nelly, and that's ok...I don't mind...but I'd rather keep my kid away from the top 10 dangerous toys, or babyproof my house to the hilt so he doesn't have to go and get his head stitched back together.
Oh we took him to Mexico in September, and between the stone coffee tables, marble baseboards, and wooden blocks under the sofas, he wound up with a nasty bonk on his head (from tripping on his own feet and hitting a baseboard with his forehead) and just lost his big toenail the other day due to stubbing it on that stupid thing. And he's a stud....he came up to me and said "ouchie---pull peeeez" and pointed to his big toenail. He had torn most off with his own hands in his crib (it had been black since mexico, finally came loose) but some was stuck & bleeding a little. I grabbed and yanked real quick...and he said "taaank uuuu"!.
Most kids would have hollered....not my Johnny tough--guy!
Jeannine
Hence, corner guards on counter tops....
Coffee table with metal accents. Here I have the main "latch" covered by a pillow. But it was fine, I hated it anyway, (too rugged for my taste) and found a gorgeous tufted leather ottoman that feels good to put my feet on, as well as comfortable for guests to sit on, so everyone is a winner. But every edge on this stupid table had a jagged metal ornament, as well as the big hook & eye latches with sharp, rough cut corners.
Oh and my slate hearth has foam all around the edges now.
So you can all shake your heads and think I'm a nervous nelly, and that's ok...I don't mind...but I'd rather keep my kid away from the top 10 dangerous toys, or babyproof my house to the hilt so he doesn't have to go and get his head stitched back together.
Oh we took him to Mexico in September, and between the stone coffee tables, marble baseboards, and wooden blocks under the sofas, he wound up with a nasty bonk on his head (from tripping on his own feet and hitting a baseboard with his forehead) and just lost his big toenail the other day due to stubbing it on that stupid thing. And he's a stud....he came up to me and said "ouchie---pull peeeez" and pointed to his big toenail. He had torn most off with his own hands in his crib (it had been black since mexico, finally came loose) but some was stuck & bleeding a little. I grabbed and yanked real quick...and he said "taaank uuuu"!.
Most kids would have hollered....not my Johnny tough--guy!
Jeannine
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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okay dg i just wanna say that your son is the cutest thing ever AND that i absolutely just LOVE your kitchen!! mega drool here with that beautiful, pristine, fabolicious kitchen. it''s similar in color and style to ours, just like 2x as big!!! hehee. and yeah i can vouch for the corner of the granite island being a painful experience from time to time...i have cut my leg on it once on the underside of the corner while scooting onto the chair we have there (which looks much like yours, black wrought iron kinda thing) and also i have ripped pants from a tiny little metal piece that was sticking out further under the island lip on the chair.
MINE!!
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MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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divergrrl
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Mine: No, I got what you were saying, I was just depositing my additional .02 cents. LOL. I just have to add, I love seeing your avatar & ring, its so beautiful. I''m glad you got the ink off it (what a nightmare!)
Mara: LOL...if you notice in the 2 pictures, the first one, I have no crown molding at the top of my cabinets, and no knobs on my cabinets. And I also changed out our dining set to an all black wood table with matching black wood chairs. (DH hated the iron ones, dunno why, he bought em! but he said they were a PITA). The wrought iron chairs you have (from your b-bag thread) I also have.... But our house is 100 years old and we remodeled our kitchen. Ripped up the subfloor, took out walls, ceilings, the works. DH and my dad did everything but install the gas line, the range hood, and cooktop. DH is getting good with that tile saw. LOL. But thanks honey, I love how big it is. Now I just need a new fridge. I wasn''t kidding when I said I spend my discretionary $$ on my house. Oh, but it was fugly before. "brick" with hearts red linoleum.....cracked brown formica, no dishwasher...and we lived in that for 6 years! hee hee!
Jeannine
Mara: LOL...if you notice in the 2 pictures, the first one, I have no crown molding at the top of my cabinets, and no knobs on my cabinets. And I also changed out our dining set to an all black wood table with matching black wood chairs. (DH hated the iron ones, dunno why, he bought em! but he said they were a PITA). The wrought iron chairs you have (from your b-bag thread) I also have.... But our house is 100 years old and we remodeled our kitchen. Ripped up the subfloor, took out walls, ceilings, the works. DH and my dad did everything but install the gas line, the range hood, and cooktop. DH is getting good with that tile saw. LOL. But thanks honey, I love how big it is. Now I just need a new fridge. I wasn''t kidding when I said I spend my discretionary $$ on my house. Oh, but it was fugly before. "brick" with hearts red linoleum.....cracked brown formica, no dishwasher...and we lived in that for 6 years! hee hee!
Jeannine
divergrrl
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I wish I could say that I can watch Jake 100% of the time. But if I were to be honest with you, I have to say that I can''t. I don''t leave him alone, but both of the accidents that he got into in Mexico were in our hotel room (super sharp stone edges on baseboards & furniture) with me within arms reach & it just happened "too fast".
So does that make sense why I feel the need to provide a little bit of softness when it comes to really sharp stuff? I guess if I had a regular countertop (and not my pointy edged granite tile) I might be more relaxed, but check out that one picture of the counters without the pads and see what you think.
I mean, imagine this scenario: I''m pulling a hot casserole out of the oven, and Jake trips on the dog or his own foot and clocks himself on the corner of the countertop (has happened, but they have foam covers now). Now, I''ve got my hands full, back turned, I mean, honestly....there is no way *I* can keep an eye on my child every second---and I keep him close. I don''t leave him alone with the dog (even though she adores him), or alone in a room -- although as he gets older & his vocabulary increases, (he''s already following orders, so I see those days around the corner--Thank God!) I can tell him what to do.
I do get what you mean though, I think some houses are easier to raise kids in than others, mine is 100 years old and has all sorts of funky edges, corners, levels etc. I refuse to move though, I LOVE this place. But like I said before, I''m home alone with him all the live-long day, and night because DH travels, so I think I''d fall over from sheer exhaustion if I tried to raise him in an environment that wasn''t proofed to the hilt.
I''ve got some friends who have some newer homes & man, they have it easy compared to me. I''d definitely have less baby proofing if I lived in a modern home.
But there is more than one way to skin a cat, and my personality is such that if anything were ever to happen to him because I didn''t make changes to something I knew I could childproof, I''d never forgive myself. At least I''ve done "my" best, whatever that is for me. You''ll probably agree with me that that can vary from household to household and be just fine.
Back to the original message of my original response to this post, I''m all for making toys safer for kids. My God, we used to play with m-80''s at 4th of July. I know kids missing fingers! It''s crazy!
Merry Merry,
Jeannine
Cehrabehra
Super_Ideal_Rock
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When my son was 2 the corners were the least of my problems - he pushed chairs to the counters and climbed on them in the time it took me to go tinkle. The knives were on the fridge. That''s what I most noted in your kitchen - hey, her knives are still on the counter! forget those little guards, I''d be hiding the knives!!! Of course when my son was 2 I also had a newborn and one in 2nd grade and life was hell and I cannot tell you how it changed everything I think about parenting and tolerance for other views on it. My first was so good and an only for 5 years and I trained her so well and I was a firm believer that people who had to childproof houses were just not as GOOD at parenting as *I* was and I was a parenting snob totally touting the theory of houseproofing your child and carting my perfect little angel everywhere and having people oooh and ahhh about how well behaved she was. HAHAHA then came my comeuppance. Two boys in two years who really could give two $^!#$ about following rules or being safety conscious. Try changing a diaper on a 1 month old or breastfeeding while the holy terror is quietly spreading poop in the keyboard in your *view* just down the hall... you can see him and you can see he''s playing but little do you know he''s digging poop out of his diaper with his thumb and decorating. I''ve been humbled. I''m FAR less judgmental about "other people''s parenting" aka OPP now. I know almost all of us do the best we can to do the best we can and it almost always isn''t perfect anyway so you move on and accept that that is a lot of what makes life life.
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divergrrl:
You are right that we should get back to the original post.
I have no problem with banning dangerous toys. The problem I see is that many of the toys on this so called "top 10" list arn''t really dangerous. They may be inappropriate for certain ages or maturity levels - but they are not dangerous in and of themselves (create and unexpected injury or hazard).
Back to my original thoughts: Part of being a parent is to properely instruct your children how to appropriately - and safely - use things as they grow up. Unfortunately - a lot of others think that the only safe way is to ban something because injury is possible if not used correctly. Golly - that''s true of most anything. People who believe that - and don''t teach their children how to handle risk at the appropriate age are setting their children up for a tradegdy later on.
This has nothing to do with if I have kids or not. It has a lot to do with raising responsible children.
Perry
You are right that we should get back to the original post.
I have no problem with banning dangerous toys. The problem I see is that many of the toys on this so called "top 10" list arn''t really dangerous. They may be inappropriate for certain ages or maturity levels - but they are not dangerous in and of themselves (create and unexpected injury or hazard).
Back to my original thoughts: Part of being a parent is to properely instruct your children how to appropriately - and safely - use things as they grow up. Unfortunately - a lot of others think that the only safe way is to ban something because injury is possible if not used correctly. Golly - that''s true of most anything. People who believe that - and don''t teach their children how to handle risk at the appropriate age are setting their children up for a tradegdy later on.
This has nothing to do with if I have kids or not. It has a lot to do with raising responsible children.
Perry
MINE!!
Ideal_Rock
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Atomic Energy Lab
Now Sky Dancers, there''s a dangerous toy. My daughter wanted this toy, and after I saw her play with it the first time, I packed it up and took it back to the store. When the ballerina comes twirling down with those pointy shoes, I could see it headed right for my daughter''s eye....that was the end of that.
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