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0.8 carat daimond - help please

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
Hi all,

New in here and need some help.

I am looking at Two round stones, which one would your prefer and what would you about say your pick generally? is it a good stone? and what is a decent price for it?

1. 0.81 VS2 I GIA triple x
mea - 5.96 - 5.93 - 3.73
depth - 62.80
tab - 55
flr - fone
grd - med to stk

2. 0.8 VS1 I GIA triple vg
mea - 5.91 - 5.88 - 3.75
depth - 63.70
tab - 55
flr - none
grd - eth to thk (not sure if I wrote it correctly, picture is not clear)

Thanks for the help
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
We normally need the angles on the lab report. But not in this case.

Both are too deep and face up small. And the VG one is poorly cut to boot. Stick to the below.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
I was thinking about the VS2 but I take it it is not recommended either?
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
You say that the VG one is poorly cut and stick to the bellow. But the VG one is the bellow?

Or did I not understand you correctly?

And if both are too deep and one is poorly cut, How did they receive a triple x and triple vg from GIA? Isn't GIA supposed to be reliable?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Pay special attention to parts in bold:

Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough as GIA's EX range is over-broad and includes stones with compromised performance and spread issues. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool.
Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return.
That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Vs2 is fine as long as you have an image, and the stone is examined by a gemolgist at the vendor to check it is eyeclean AND that there are no transparency or haziness issues.

So you need a good vendor.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
It is eye clean and no issues according to vendor.

I am a bit concerned though since you said it is too deep and will look smaller. I am not so concerned about the size but the brilliance and sparkle?

There is another option:
0.80 VS1 H GIA
Mea - 5.92 x 5.89 x 3.57
Dep - 62.20
Tab - 61.00
Grd - stk to thk

How is this one compared to the VS2?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay. Again, we need the angles. Crown and Pavilion. Post them.

Go back over what I wrote above. Click on the HCA. Put the numbers in there.

Post the numbers and the HCA score. Okay?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,171
tommh|1474132971|4077758 said:
It is eye clean and no issues according to vendor.

I am a bit concerned though since you said it is too deep and will look smaller. I am not so concerned about the size but the brilliance and sparkle?

There is another option:
0.80 VS1 H GIA
Mea - 5.92 x 5.89 x 3.57
Dep - 62.20
Tab - 61.00
Grd - stk to thk

How is this one compared to the VS2?
Dont even need angles on this one. The spread is unimpressive for 0.8c (it should be very close to 6.00mm) amd it will not have much sparkle you want because of the large table of 61, regardless of the angles.

Read gypsy's guide.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
I requested the numbers, will post it as soon as I get it.

I'm wondering about something else, Gypsy advised that ideal proporations are 33.5-35 for crown angle and 40.6-40.9 for pavilion angle.

On the same note you said that if getting an AGS ideal 0 no need to check anything since they have done that already.

However when looking in AGS chart 55 table(link bellow) the angles for their ideal definition are much wider.

http://agslab.com/docs/pbcg/AGSLProportionCharts.pdf

How does that add up?

Thanks
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
AGS can have wider proportions because they do actual three 3 scans of the whole stone taking into account all the facets. AGS also uses an ASET scope to judge the light performance. GIA does not. GIA averages the facets and the HCA is a rough tool that takes only 4 data tools into account. So you need tighter specs to get into a 'safe range' where you can go without an idealscope or ASET image, which obviously we still prefer

Okay?
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
Yes I understand.

The paviilion angle is 41
crown angle - 35.5
depth - 62.8
table - 55

Hca score - 3.6

which is not good right?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
tommh|1474190792|4077993 said:
Yes I understand.

The paviilion angle is 41
crown angle - 35.5
depth - 62.8
table - 55

Hca score - 3.6

which is not good right?
Yes. That is bad.

Again, stick to the numbers I gave you. Okay?

If you are working with a jeweler just just and paste this to him:

GIA 3X
Table: 60 or less
Depth: 59-62.4
Crown: 33.5-35
Pavilion: 40.6-40.9


Alright?

And if he can't manage that. There are a ton of jewelers who can.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
Yep. Cancelled the order, will check with someone else according to the numbers you gave me.

Thank you very much for you valuabe advise !!!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,157
I don't believe you can buy a better cut MRB than a CBI - you could buy that one and call it quits! :sun:

It is a J, whereas you were looking at an I, but it will face up very white due to the cut :) (I read a thread on here the other day where someone was looking for an H or higher but ended up with a L from HPD/CBI!)

As a previous purchaser of a CBI, I can say that the premium paid is definitely worth it - it never fails to look amazing and catches my eye from across the room sometimes, even when we've only got a small table lamp on and no other lighting :)
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
This stone did catch my eye but it is currently listed on hold. I will contact them and find out if it is available.

it is also the only one I could find in their inventory which is within my budget, everything else is higher.

Well hopefully it is available :)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The FBI is lovely also check Brian Gavin and Whiteflash.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,157
Gypsy|1474239600|4078178 said:
The FBI is lovely also check Brian Gavin and Whiteflash.
I didn't realise you were such a big fan of the American security services! :lol:
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,157
tommh|1474223219|4078110 said:
This stone did catch my eye but it is currently listed on hold. I will contact them and find out if it is available.

it is also the only one I could find in their inventory which is within my budget, everything else is higher.

Well hopefully it is available :)
Wink may be able to pull in another CBI stone that suits your requirements if that one is sold - I know they cut throughout the year so there might be something coming up that would suit :)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
OoohShiny|1474273086|4078272 said:
Gypsy|1474239600|4078178 said:
The FBI is lovely also check Brian Gavin and Whiteflash.
I didn't realise you were such a big fan of the American security services! :lol:
New phone. Forgot to turn off autocorrect. Whoops. CBI of course.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
Gypsy|1474239600|4078178 said:
The FBI is lovely also check Brian Gavin and Whiteflash.
Brian Gavin currently doesn't have anything within my range.

I did however narrowed it to 3 options for center stone, and 1 option for side stones. What do you think?

Side Stones:
1. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3567115,3497422

Center Stone:
1. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3660690.htm
2. http://highperformancediamonds.com/shop/j/HPD7895/
3. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3711810.htm

Thanks
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The sidestones are too big. I would have WF set the center wih 2 twemty pointers, of thier melee. No lab report required they will be ACA quality. It will be much better proportionately and I woulf do a custom setting from them with it.

Like this:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/crossed-trellis-18k-white-gold-5460w18

Or this:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/diana-18k-white-gold-5981w18

Those sidestones are too big for a 6mm center. 20 points is just right.

I like the 82 point WF stome for the center,
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
Gypsy|1474371464|4078726 said:
The sidestones are too big. I would have WF set the center wih 2 twemty pointers, of thier melee. No lab report required they will be ACA quality. It will be much better proportionately and I woulf do a custom setting from them with it.

Like this:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/crossed-trellis-18k-white-gold-5460w18

Or this:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/three-stone/diana-18k-white-gold-5981w18

Those sidestones are too big for a 6mm center. 20 points is just right.

I like the 82 point WF stome for the center,

Sounds good, I was thinking about that center too.

About their melee, i can ask them to do 2 twenty pointers, I am totally fine with that. The only concern I have is that their melee are F-G color while the center is an I. Would that be ok?
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
The proportions of a three stone ring are entirely matters of opinion, and not fact as stated above.

Some people prefer a more equal ratio. I think 30 points with a .8ish would look just fine, if that's what you want. Whiteflash can probably show you the three stones together and you can decide with your own eyes.

Sometimes we have a tendency to state our own preference as fact when it isn't.
 

tommh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2016
Messages
21
kb1gra|1474372706|4078729 said:
The proportions of a three stone ring are entirely matters of opinion, and not fact as stated above.

Some people prefer a more equal ratio. I think 30 points with a .8ish would look just fine, if that's what you want. Whiteflash can probably show you the three stones together and you can decide with your own eyes.

Sometimes we have a tendency to state our own preference as fact when it isn't.
i think she/he(sorry because I don't know) was just trying to give an advise, don't think it was meant to be as a fact.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
621
tommh|1474374025|4078737 said:
kb1gra|1474372706|4078729 said:
The proportions of a three stone ring are entirely matters of opinion, and not fact as stated above.

Some people prefer a more equal ratio. I think 30 points with a .8ish would look just fine, if that's what you want. Whiteflash can probably show you the three stones together and you can decide with your own eyes.

Sometimes we have a tendency to state our own preference as fact when it isn't.
i think she/he(sorry because I don't know) was just trying to give an advise, don't think it was meant to be as a fact.
She was, I'm sure, but tone is lost on the internet so when you leave out things like "I think" or "I believe," the wording comes across as a direct instruction/information instead of merely an educated opinion/offering of advice.
 

hathalove

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
1,686
I love the idea of big sidestones. In fact I was asking WF to find me side stones in the 4.5-5mm for my 6mm center if it doesn't sell.

Here is a pic they sent me with 4.8mm sides and a 6mm center. This is just to give you an idea. I've posted that second pic so you can see ratios of various sizes.

img_12739.jpg

img_12740.jpg
 
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