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  1. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Thank you for the data Garry- you've been at the forefront of true research in diamonds for so many years. Before the discussion gets overly technical, for the non-scientists among us- can we agree that it's possible to observe whitening ( in certain, but not all, MB/SB diamonds) in many...
  2. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Continued efforts at a reasonable respectful dialog go unanswered..ok. Bryan, you have no idea what you're talking about. Either you have not seen enough diamonds to have seen the sort of stones we are talking about- or you don't have vision ample to see it- or ...I can't figure out what...
  3. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Howdy Garry. Thanks Mate. @Texas Leaguer - I’m bringing a unique perspective to this forum. I’m an old ‘diamond man”. My 45 years of experience starting at Harry Winston have been built on old fashioned values. My word is my bond. I believe I’m also one of the longest standing internet...
  4. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Wow. I will say this- I'll always be a "New Yawka", but I've mellowed a bit since 2016...... Essentially, though, it seems such a simple argument to settle peacefully. All agree fl causes whitening under certain lighting scenarios. Some feel science proves whitening can only take place in...
  5. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Right??? We see all sorts of weird colored fluorescence on Fancy Colored Diamonds- and the deeper the color, the weirder the color!! It's so hard to classify exactly what color the fluorescence is. That might actually be important to the general discussion- maybe the specific spectrum of light...
  6. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Hi Bryan, instead of broad-based statments- let's focus. The "Cowing Study" has quite a bit of info within it. Some of which I agree with- but not all. To clarify my position regarding this study: There was never any consensus reached about the whitening of MB/SB stones and where it takes place...
  7. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Your main point- that variance fluorescence grades work like color grades is pretty much the way I see it as well. Actually, if we're speaking of GIA- there's even a fairly wide range in faint. As we go up the scale predicting what GIA will call fluorescence is a total crap shoot.
  8. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Awesome Bryan- progress!!! We agree on so much and the differences are subtle. My comments in red below
  9. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Bryan, this is so darn simple to solve. Your opinion is that there is conclusive science on this specific issue. I do not share that opinion. Nor do I feel what we have seen on Pricesope substantiates a claim that diamonds cannot possibly exhibit color change due to fluorescence outside of...
  10. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Hi Bryan, Which of these categories do I fall into?
  11. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Hi Sledge....I can't according to forum rules...but any member can go to the site ( one of the two main VD sites) and do a search for G/VS2 carat size stones. This site I used allows a filter for fluorescence ( hint hint..lol) About the prices charged- in relation to wholesale: This is super...
  12. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    I've made every effort to keep this discussion civil. It's interesting that a member actually stated I should be kicked off Pricescope for stating my views and experience. And Bryan has termed my words as "opinion" versus his science. Or "old notions" I politely reminded Bryan that maybe our...
  13. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Cool data @sledge - thank you!! Just doing a quick check at retail- I checked on of the largest two virtual sites. I found a G/VS2 in an"Ideal cut" for $7599. Then an SB, in the same cut categorization at $5578 ( -27%) There are many reasons why we're getting different numbers. First is...
  14. Rockdiamond

    When the GIA report says something different...

    Interesting question! I always like to include the GIA nomenclature on OEC, OMB and circular brilliants due to this exact confusion. OTOH.... the words “Radiant Cut” and “Princess Cut” don’t appear on GIA reports and we use those all the time...... ETA- IMO, this is not in the same category as...
  15. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    This is a very pertinent question!! My experience is that the fluorescence absolutely affects the color grading. This is another crucial piece of the “whitening” puzzle. In the case of yellow diamonds this inconsistency is so very easy to see. In many cases, a Fancy Light Yellow with MB is...
  16. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Hi Bryan, I guess I’d have to ask you at this point- what’s your goal here? This isn’t about “old notions”.(are you calling me a boomer??:) There’s simply no gemological consensus. The 22 pages of Cowing article completely debunked it. You’re basing your statements on what you believe is...
  17. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Hi @TODiamonds A few things: 1) based on my experiences on the market, the differential has exacerbated over the past five years. So, if we looked years ago, the market was different. 2) As I've said, my post the other day referred to a limited sample showing limited results. I have seen...
  18. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    PS- if anyone has a specific category they would like to run this same test on, I'll be happy to oblige, if possible.
  19. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    I’m unaware of published data on how fluorescence affect pricing- can you please share the data you’ve seen? My post of the other day was not intended to be a broad based study- just the opposite. Since I didn’t intend to spend the amount or time necessary for a broad based study, I chose a...
  20. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    All excellent points @sledge. To perform a complete survey we need far more data. I picked a single weight to purposely get a narrow snapshot of a very popular category. A more broad based look would be enlightening. I don’t believe we can do a “look back”. But I can sample a far broader...
  21. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Prices- dependant on fluorescence Here's an informal look using the wholesale database, where you can search by fluorescence.... I used a narrow size- a bit over 1ct. I compared pricing for triple EX G/VS2 no blue, and med blue Then the same for J, and K G color- for every dollar you spend on...
  22. Rockdiamond

    A message to the trade from one of my favorite rabble rousers, Martin Rapaport.

    I think that brands serve a different purpose/ or more accurately, different purposes. For a long while, diamonds become commoditized. A race to the bottom. Who can sell for the lowest possible price. But the most discriminating consumers learned enough to understand that the sacrifices...
  23. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    One of the amazing aspects of Pricescope for me is the diversity of opinions among trade members. For example-Bryan and I grew up in totally different neighborhoods within the diamond business. We have different interests and areas of expertise- we look at different sorts of diamonds. If we had...
  24. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    I think part of the reason we keep getting stuck here relates to this. I love science and have boundless respect for intelligence and the quest for knowledge. I too, am distressed by things like how many people belong to the "Flat Earth Society" Sadly, there's far more serious denial of...
  25. Rockdiamond

    Name your favorite sad song.

    Missy....Joni, Joni, Joni There's never a bad time to hear a Joni song....... So many other beautiful sad songs mentioned so far.... This line always gets me... IN the lonely light of morning, in the wound that would not heal, it's the bitter taste of losing everything that I've held so dear....
  26. Rockdiamond

    A message to the trade from one of my favorite rabble rousers, Martin Rapaport.

    Interesting article Wink. Thanks for posting it. I think the horse already left the barn though. Being in NY, I can still work with dealers - maybe about 1/2 that we could 10 years ago. But a lot of “old timers” retired with no kids taking up the banner. The saving grace here has been Indian...
  27. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    It seems to me that we have not figured out exactly what conditions are necessary- or even what causes different sorts of fluorescence broadly. It would take the study of many thousands of diamonds to even scratch the surface. And I will argue Jeff Beck:)
  28. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    From the last page of Michael's thread. While I feel that the part in red is ill-advised, the bolded portion agrees with what Garry and I ( and others) were saying in that thread. Bottom line is that there's no scientific, or gemological consensus on fluorescence and color improvement in...
  29. Rockdiamond

    Should we discourage or recommend FL stones?

    Bryan it would be so very simple if you didn't insist on casting my experience, and that of Gary and others aside as .... "personal opinions" which sounds quite pejorative compared to what you are calling "scientific proof". I'm anything but "status quo" in this business.....that sort of thing...
  30. Rockdiamond

    Re-stock fees?

    UPDATE!!!!!!! Just got off the phone with yet another PayPal supervisor who explained that going forward, we'd have to accept the new system, but since this was an error- they made an exception and allowed the client a full refund without punishing us!!!!!! Yipee Yipee It's not even the $400...
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