Web boards targeted by shills

[decodelighted]

Read this on Consumerist.com today ... scary

"I interviewed for a guerilla marketing business in San Francisco that targeted web forums.

I was told that if I accepted the job, I was to have at LEAST 50 identities on as many forums as I could muster (they wanted 100 eventually), with a goal of 5 posts an hour. The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in. And regular visitors would recognize the post as coming from a long time poster."

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Hasn''t there been a few suspected shills on here? It is scary and takes the point away from these forums.

 

[moon river]

Holy Crap!!! I do well to remember what I posted yesterday let alone keeping 50-100 personalities straight. They need to hire a sociopath for that job!!!!

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:07:36 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Hasn''t there been a few suspected shills on here?

Yeah, but usually they are so obvious ... i.e. -- 1st post: "Hi. Anyone watch JEWELRY TELEVISION?? I love it" ... or "Does everybody love Shenoa & Company as much as I does" (riddled with weird English & obvious sales messages)

More sophisticated paid shills (as suggested in the article) could infiltrate for months before gently promoting their agenda. At least here on Pricescope we have so many opinionated folks it would be hard to come away from a discussion with just one viewpoint represented!

 

[diamondlil]

Remembering so many identities seems impossible. How does a person keep track of all that and still come across as intelligent with well-thought-out posts? Of course, I can''t remember my kids'' names on occasion, so I certainly would not get the job.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:07:36 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Hasn''t there been a few suspected shills on here? It is scary and takes the point away from these forums.

yes....i''m one of them.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:37:04 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/6/2006 2:07:36 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Hasn''t there been a few suspected shills on here? It is scary and takes the point away from these forums.

yes....i''m one of them.

That''s it, you''re fired! Unless you buy me one of those honker rings like your wife has, then you can stay.

I too can barely remember what I posted half an hour ago....fifty or more personalities?!??! I wish I had that kind of mental acuity!!

 

[Kaleigh]

Wow, that is very interesting. The shills on here are usually very obvious. DF you are too funny.

 

[strmrdr]

Im not going to go into it but there are ways to tell if that is going on.
There are signs that if you know what to look for are plain as day.
The biggest problem is false positives so you sometimes have to be careful.
fake people act fake, look fake and sound fake on boards and in real life.
Most of them relly on the fact that most people want to trust other people.
All it takes is one person who doesnt trust for the facade to fall apart.
If a few people on any forum keep an eye on it and the admins kick em quick its controllable.
The regular vendors around here know the cost of doing it so they dont.

 

[tawn]

Well, then I suspect that about 1/2 of us are secretly working for Sharper Image Reconditioned Ultrasonic Cleaners from Ebay!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/6/2006 3:26:22 PM
Author: strmrdr
The biggest problem is false positives so you sometimes have to be careful.

Indeed. I confided in R/A many years ago (and he was shocked to hear) that I had thought his persona was one belonging to a specific professional in the diamond business! Uh...I got to know R/A, and I KNOW that that perception could be called (quite euphemistically) "a false positive".


Deb

 

[pricescope]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:07:36 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring
Hasn't there been a few suspected shills on here? It is scary and takes the point away from these forums.

Hey folks let's not all be paranoid - that's my job (to be paranoid that is).

Hehehe, Deb, RA ones said "Paranoia will destroy ya"

Deco, are you working for Consumerist?

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 2/6/2006 3:44:54 PM
Author: Pricescope
Deco, are you working for Consumerist?

Deco? Who is this Deco? Oh - you must mean #47 on my list of 50 alter egos.

Seriously -- I wish I was working for ANYONE right now ... freelancing is rough! If I start raving about my future new Ultrasonic, take that with a grain of salt! [$$)]

 

[perry]

Oh maintianing multiple personalities on various forums is not that hard.

I''m on a variety of forums - although I may only post every couple of weeks on some of them.

Here I am known as Perry.

Another forum I am on I am known as Perry.

The next one I am known as Perry

The newspaer forum I am known as Perry

A fourm I am no longer active on (but my post are still referred to) I am known as Perry.

I am sure there are a few others out there - and I can keep them all straight. So what''s the problem here?

Perry

ps: I just registered on one as "Future is Bright" a serious deviation from my past practice... See the LIW thread if you are wondering why.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:21:54 PM
Author: diamondlil
Remembering so many identities seems impossible. How does a person keep track of all that and still come across as intelligent with well-thought-out posts? Of course, I can''t remember my kids'' names on occasion, so I certainly would not get the job.

i have the same problem,it''s call Alzheimer’s disease.

 

[valeria101]

Yeah... no news, unfortunately.

Must be a tough job though

 

[princessv]

Date: 2/6/2006 3:34:15 PM
Author: tawn

Well, then I suspect that about 1/2 of us are secretly working for Sharper Image Reconditioned Ultrasonic Cleaners from Ebay!

LOL Count me in on that one!

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 2/6/2006 9:19:53 PM
Author: perry
Oh maintianing multiple personalities on various forums is not that hard.


I''m on a variety of forums - although I may only post every couple of weeks on some of them.


Here I am known as Perry.


Another forum I am on I am known as Perry.


The next one I am known as Perry


The newspaer forum I am known as Perry


A fourm I am no longer active on (but my post are still referred to) I am known as Perry.


I am sure there are a few others out there - and I can keep them all straight. So what''s the problem here?


Perry


ps: I just registered on one as ''Future is Bright'' a serious deviation from my past practice... See the LIW thread if you are wondering why.

Yes...but what about the rest of us, who don''t have your razor sharp memory! LOL

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Oh I know the ones on here are obvious. 50 different names/personalities IS crazy. If the companies just improved their products it seems like it would be less work/money to hire shills...

 

[Kaili]

Seems like the moderators would watch IP addresses to see if there are multiple names attached to one address. I know one can change an IP, but I don''t know that it is easy to change back and forth between the correct IP to coordinate with a screen name.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

My husband and I were discussing this just a few nights ago. Both him and I feel that this very common. He participates in a few forums and notices the subtle advertising and the not so subtle, as well. Members of boards form relationships and bonds for months before they bring in their agenda.

Every board I read tends to have many the posters pushing certain products. Even a healthfood board I read has certain supplemental brands ranked higher than others mainly from members there repeating the good experiences of others. In some ways, I think we all have become shillers in that we recommend company''s based not on our own personal purchases, but on the purchases of others who post beautiful jewelery. Some probably even do get paid. Doesn''t one of the jewelery co.''s here give $ for referals?

 

[perry]

Kaili:

Unfortunately, Microsoft made it really easy to send a fake IP address when they released XP - even though industry security experts told them about the issue in advance.

It is now quite possible to relatively easily set up a profile for "shill" in your computer (using XP) that would send a unique fake IP address as well.

The other issue is that if you are on DSL or a large corporate system - every time you log in you are likely to have a somewhat different IP (unless you set yourself up to "spoof" an IP address). The DSL/corporate Server has many specific IP addresses - and it assigns them as you log in for the session. All that can be tracked - say in my case at this time - is that my IP address originates from Two Rivers, WI from a certain DSL provider. However, there are ways to set up to spoof an IP address. For example, I could spoof an IP address in California if I wanted.

When I was under dial-up. I had a unique IP address that was always the same - and could be tracked right to my house - and before XP it was not easy to spoof an IP address (not saying it could not be done - but you needed to find special software to do it).

MC: I agree that shills are common on some boards.

Perry

 

[pricescope]

Date: 2/7/2006 11:56:58 PM
Author: MC
Some probably even do get paid. Doesn't one of the jewelery co.'s here give $ for referals?

MC before going into insinuations about "one of the jewelery co" why don't you go and read that co's Referrals Policies a well as Pricescope policies?

It's so old it's not even funny anymore.

Are you aware that we got rid of an advertiser and all their references on the forum when we discovered their unethical behaviour on the forum?

As Storm said, it is easy to see shilling if you know people on the board etc. And folks, besides IPs there so many tools i am not gonna share with you.

If you have any facts about unethical behaviour of any member on the forum, please report it immediately. Otherwise, why start these insinuations?

Please stay away from negativity.

 

[Erin]

Date: 2/7/2006 7:17:04 AM
Author: blodthecat

Date: 2/6/2006 9:19:53 PM
Author: perry

Here I am known as Perry.


Another forum I am on I am known as Perry.


The next one I am known as Perry


The newspaer forum I am known as Perry

Yes...but what about the rest of us, who don''t have your razor sharp memory! LOL

Where''s the smiley for''spit my soda out and now it''s drooling down my chin''?

Where are my napkins?

 

[strmrdr]

To give you an idea of how easy it can be:

back in the young days of the net, in 1997 I was an ircop (think administratior) on one of the largest family oriented irc networks on the net.
We had an irc channel called girlchat where a bunch of teenage girls from all around the world hung out.
That tended to attract a lot of pervs so the ircops knew most of the members of the channel from dealing with idiots who gave them a hard time.

On day a perv started sending nasty messages to one of them and she notified me about it.
I got his ip/isp info and de-oped, changed nicks and contacted.
From the nick he thought I was a girl and starts up his gross comments.

In the meantime im checking his internet information out.
Turns out he is coming in from a major company in Utah that if I named them you would know who it is.
I called the number on their website and talked to the receptionist who transfered me to the IT department.
They tracked it back to one computer there and got the guys boss in a conference call.
I read his boss some of the stuff he was saying and the IT guy was doing packet captures for evidence.
His boos said ill be right back and went and got him, sneaking up and seeing him typing in the irc client.
He picked up the phone and I said this is -nickname- you are so busted!

Total time from me contacting him online and him getting fired 3 min and 32 seconds.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 2/8/2006 11:57:39 AM
Author: Pricescope


If you have any facts about unethical behaviour of any member on the forum, please report it immediately. Otherwise, why start these insinuations?

Please stay away from negativity.

I''m not intending to be negative, just honest. What is wrong with this?

Hopefully I don''t banned for saying this, but just because I don''t scoff at the notion of shills like everyone else seems to, doesn''t mean I do not have a right to voice an opinion!

And, WhiteFlash does give a $100 to those who refer customers. . .

"Existing Customers: Refer a friend! - Receive $100!
When you refer a friend to Whiteflash and that friend makes a diamond purchase of over $1000 we will send you a thank-you gift of $100!"

http://www.whiteflash.com/policies/referral.aspx

 

[belle]

Date: 2/8/2006 8:02:01 PM
Author: MC

Date: 2/8/2006 11:57:39 AM
Author: Pricescope


If you have any facts about unethical behaviour of any member on the forum, please report it immediately. Otherwise, why start these insinuations?

Please stay away from negativity.

I''m not intending to be negative, just honest. What is wrong with this?

Hopefully I don''t banned for saying this, but just because I don''t scoff at the notion of shills like everyone else seems to, doesn''t mean I do not have a right to voice an opinion!

And, WhiteFlash does give a $100 to those who refer customers. . .

''Existing Customers: Refer a friend! - Receive $100!
When you refer a friend to Whiteflash and that friend makes a diamond purchase of over $1000 we will send you a thank-you gift of $100!''

http://www.whiteflash.com/policies/referral.aspx

the problem is, you were insinuating that they may be paying people here and that is negative and accusatory.
there is nothing wrong with giving a referral bonus for friends and family.
and as the policy that you posted clearly states: "3. The Brilliant-Diamond gift program is not in effect for referrals made on or through Internet consumer discussion forums."
it is against both ps policy and wf policy to use the program for referrals made on here.

 

[mightyred]

Date: 2/8/2006 7:37:34 PM
Author: strmrdr
To give you an idea of how easy it can be:

back in the young days of the net, in 1997 I was an ircop (think administratior) on one of the largest family oriented irc networks on the net.
We had an irc channel called girlchat where a bunch of teenage girls from all around the world hung out.
That tended to attract a lot of pervs so the ircops knew most of the members of the channel from dealing with idiots who gave them a hard time.

On day a perv started sending nasty messages to one of them and she notified me about it.
I got his ip/isp info and de-oped, changed nicks and contacted.
From the nick he thought I was a girl and starts up his gross comments.

In the meantime im checking his internet information out.
Turns out he is coming in from a major company in Utah that if I named them you would know who it is.
I called the number on their website and talked to the receptionist who transfered me to the IT department.
They tracked it back to one computer there and got the guys boss in a conference call.
I read his boss some of the stuff he was saying and the IT guy was doing packet captures for evidence.
His boos said ill be right back and went and got him, sneaking up and seeing him typing in the irc client.
He picked up the phone and I said this is -nickname- you are so busted!

Total time from me contacting him online and him getting fired 3 min and 32 seconds.

Wow. That is very impressive strmrdr.


Shrills , unqualified advice.....there are many pitfalls to being online. Personally I find it far more worrying when people post on medical websites for advice. You have someone who thinks they are an expert and giving someone unqualified advice who should be talking to their doctor. At least with diamonds I can read reviews, suggestions, advice and then go do my own research and it won''t be life or death (unless you count the life and death of the other halfs wallet!). At the end of the day you are responsible for what you read.

Word of mouth marketing is nothing new. It just has a new forum (pardon the pun) on which to communicate. We are all smart people so just as long as you are aware it''s out there is half the battle.

I agree with Tacori E-ring......instead of shrills the smart companies should concentrate on inproving their products and they would sell themselves. Louis Vuitton is a case in point! We are on a diamond forum but the amount of people on here who love the LV product and rave is the best advertising money can''t buy!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/8/2006 8:02:01 PM
Author: MC


I''m not intending to be negative, just honest. What is wrong with this?

Hopefully I don''t banned for saying this, but just because I don''t scoff at the notion of shills like everyone else seems to, doesn''t mean I do not have a right to voice an opinion!

And, WhiteFlash does give a $100 to those who refer customers. . .

''Existing Customers: Refer a friend! - Receive $100!
When you refer a friend to Whiteflash and that friend makes a diamond purchase of over $1000 we will send you a thank-you gift of $100!''

http://www.whiteflash.com/policies/referral.aspx

MC, did you read this policy? In its entirety? Because here''s the rest that you didn''t include above....and it''s right in the same spot you linked to.

Terms and Restrictions
You must be a prior Whiteflash customer to receive a referral gift (‘existing customer’).
The person who is referred must be a new Whiteflash customer (‘new customer’).
The Brilliant-Diamond gift program is not in effect for referrals made on or through Internet consumer discussion forums.
You must provide all information on our REFERRAL FORM at time of submission.
Only one referral gift per purchase.
Whiteflash will issue the referral gift to the existing customer after the new customer’s 10-day return period ends and the sale is completed.
A referral gift cannot be given retroactively. The referral gift form must be completed at or before the time of purchase.
By participating, existing customer and new customer understand and accept all terms and restrictions of this referral program.
This program is subject to review & change at any time by Whiteflash.

This language means that people here (on PS) cannot be "paid" through this policy.

I don''t think the issue is whether or not you believe shills exist....it''s the (mistaken) assertion that people here get paid.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/8/2006 8:02:01 PM
Author: MC

Date: 2/8/2006 11:57:39 AM
Author: Pricescope


If you have any facts about unethical behaviour of any member on the forum, please report it immediately. Otherwise, why start these insinuations?

Please stay away from negativity.

I''m not intending to be negative, just honest. What is wrong with this?

Hopefully I don''t banned for saying this, but just because I don''t scoff at the notion of shills like everyone else seems to, doesn''t mean I do not have a right to voice an opinion!

And, WhiteFlash does give a $100 to those who refer customers. . .

''Existing Customers: Refer a friend! - Receive $100!
When you refer a friend to Whiteflash and that friend makes a diamond purchase of over $1000 we will send you a thank-you gift of $100!''

http://www.whiteflash.com/policies/referral.aspx

Hi MC. This is a topic that has been visited before.

It would be reckless for vendors on PS to have shills, for reasons already stated (it''s easy to ID and expose them), and even more importantly, because it''s not worth the risk of losing membership in the community. Leonid and Irina are vigilant and look out for the community. Reputable vendors are vigilant as well, and would not risk losing their status on PS.

As for our company:

From Pricescope forum policies

1. Referrals and Recommendations:

1. Recommendations given within the Pricescope community should be done in a good faith as genuine opinions based on personal knowledge and experience and not influenced by any commercial interests.
2. Any remuneration in exchange for posted testimony, referred products or services within the Pricescope community are strictly forbidden. Members or vendors engaged in such practices will be banned and their posts or posts referencing said vendor subject to removal.

From Whiteflash Brilliant Diamond Referral Gift Program

Terms and conditions

3. The Brilliant-Diamond gift program is not in effect for referrals made on or through Internet consumer discussion forums.


The referral gift program at WF existed before Pricescope did. The terms and conditions were added to clarify that it is not in effect for internet forum referrals. We value Pricescope as a port of entry for many customers and agree with the good faith spirit of the recommendations offered here.

The referral gift is a popular benefit that has long-existed for family and friends of our clients - away from the internet.