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Help: Advice needed. Brian Gavin Diamonds holding onto Refund

Katty01Kat

Rough_Rock
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May 27, 2009
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So, given the situation -- a third party (HPD) removed the diamond from the setting and packaged it up to send back to OP, OP herself never opened up the HPD parcel to check it out herself, and then BGD received a parcel from OP with an unopened box from HPD inside -- to me it makes sense that BGD chose to send it to AGS for independent verification. [ETA: I have no doubt HPD removed the diamond safely and without any damage, but HPD is still a third party. If OP had sent the ring with the BGD stone back to BGD, I doubt BGD would have send the diamond to AGS.

The $180 upcharge was bogus, bad on BGD for even trying it on.

It definitely gets tricky when counting on returns to fund a new purchase (been there, done that); hopefully the timing works out for you OP and you get your HPD ring by your birthday.

Thanks, I hope so too. I verified the diamond was in the diamond holder but never took the diamond out of the box. The diamond has the BGD and AGS inscription lasered on it. Either way, I'm fine with the AGS process. What I'm not OK with is the inference to damage and scare tactics and additional charges out of nowhere.
 

Katty01Kat

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Hmm.. I am one of those who have only had good experiences with BGD. I have never returned anything though.

IMO they are well within their rights to send the stone for checking and verification if they are unable to do that themselves, if there is any uncertainty about its state at all. It is after all, a costly stone.

The extra charges... well I suppose I can see both sides? They probably did charge you ‘at a loss’ assuming you would be keeping the ring.

However, if there were no conditions stated at the time of same about extra charges at the time of return, then it is unfair for them to try to push them onto you now!! That I do not agree with. I’m glad you pushed back and they ‘waived’ it!!

BGD is a ‘PS vendor’ for the quality of their stones. There seem to be unfortunate incidents of late re: customer service though. I feel like from these stories that their reps could really do with some training on managing issues and complaints, should these arise. It does seem like an issue that has come up in the last year or two. I have honestly never experienced anything like it myself. However, I have not purchased recently. My previous experiences were all top notch where they went above and beyond to fulfil my orders. From what I’m hearing, their communication (I’m talking wording, how they are managing concerns from clients) can be an issue. I don’t think they should’ve said ‘so filthy and marked up’. They could’ve just left it at ‘need to send to AGS for verification of condition of the stone’. Filthy and marked up seems a bit accusatory.

Re: someone else’s post above on ring boxes, I would never send a vendor any box with sentimental value... I have honestly never gotten back ANY box that I have sent to ANY vendor (like DK, CVB, DBL etc). I can see how it might be a bit off putting to have ‘lost’ your box... though I suppose if it was important, it could be requested that the seller return it?

Regardless, I really hope you get your refund soon and enjoy your undoubtedly GORGEOUS CBI!! Please show us when it arrives!

Thanks! My experience when buying earrings from them were fine. Everything was fine up until I wanted to return the ring.
 

gm89uk

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If the box was never opened and HPD have photos just prepostage, it proves 'filthy and marked up' are complete exaggerations from BGD.

Wanting to send to AGS, is in my opinion extreme, but if it is due process, it should be explained that these costs may be incurred.

If it is based on the returned condition, the OP could then have transcribed BGDs concern to HPD so they could take extra care to ensure the stone was sparkling prior to return.

I personally would never do business with BGD because there are one too many alarm bells if everything doesn't go smoothly from the get go.
 

Rose-gold-or-bust

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Let's make sure we break it all down and that you're responding to the full story with all the facts that I think you're misunderstanding.
1) It's fine if they need to have it verified externally. However, this was never communicated and to deviate from what was originally advertised as 3-5 days is not upfront standard or expected business behavior. Nevermind that the ring has the BGD laser inscription on it and if Brian (in all his expertise) can't inspect the stone for damage, then I question why I'm buying from him as the industry expert.
2) Are you agreeing that even though I had already paid $250 for head and labor in which I will not be refunded for, I should pay an additional $180 because of their business decision to price the way they did?
3) Are you saying it's OK to withhold funds for an undefined period of time with no estimated timeline for completion?

I think that some people have misinterpreted the thing about the $180.
Just to clarify, they quoted and charged you $250 to replace the head and set the stone in your ring? Now that you’ve returned the stone, they are saying they want more money for the head change and labor? And that it was never communicated to you (until now) that the $250 you paid was a discounted price?
 

gm89uk

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I think that some people have misinterpreted the thing about the $180.
Just to clarify, they quoted and charged you $250 to replace the head and set the stone in your ring? Now that you’ve returned the stone, they are saying they want more money for the head change and labor? And that it was never communicated to you (until now) that the $250 you paid was a discounted price?

Shocking. Reminds me of my wedding day, the lady said I know we agreed a price but this cake is worth £100 more than agreed and you can't have it unless you pay!
 

Katty01Kat

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I think that some people have misinterpreted the thing about the $180.
Just to clarify, they quoted and charged you $250 to replace the head and set the stone in your ring? Now that you’ve returned the stone, they are saying they want more money for the head change and labor? And that it was never communicated to you (until now) that the $250 you paid was a discounted price?

YUP. They said it should have cost me $430. Again, this was never communicated or made a contingency. All after the fact. Of course, I don't get the $250 back which I was fine with as I understand that was custom work.
 

LightBright

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Let's make sure we break it all down and that you're responding to the full story with all the facts that I think you're misunderstanding.
1) It's fine if they need to have it verified externally. However, this was never communicated and to deviate from what was originally advertised as 3-5 days is not upfront standard or expected business behavior. Nevermind that the ring has the BGD laser inscription on it and if Brian (in all his expertise) can't inspect the stone for damage, then I question why I'm buying from him as the industry expert.
2) Are you agreeing that even though I had already paid $250 for head and labor in which I will not be refunded for, I should pay an additional $180 because of their business decision to price the way they did?
3) Are you saying it's OK to withhold funds for an undefined period of time with no estimated timeline for completion?

Regarding #2, $250 for parts and labor to replace a white gold head and set a stone seems like a good deal. I think WF charges $75 to set a diamond. Labor to remove a head and solder a new head into a ring maybe is $100. White gold head from Stuller... I’m going to guess $150? So in total I’d guess $325 total cost. So it’s not implausible that they actually did pay $180 more than the $250, although it seems on the high side. By they way, I had thought they charged you only $180 for labor, parts, etc. (which I thought was a good deal) so I agree with you here, and them changing their mind and charging you more now seems vindictive and petty.

Second, their not returning your nice box, also not so great. I had that happen when I had a local PS vendor set my branded superideal, but their diamond setter misplaced my box, not the vendor, so I’m now out a nice box. :( I can understand it. We’ve had PS complaints on this exact thing where expensive rings are given back in tissue paper. In my opinion, times are really tough for artisans and craftsmen, and I forgive all this stuff but the vendors who do a nice job at presentation are always noticed and appreciated.

I don’t know that their policy is to refund payment 3-5 days after a set and worn diamond is unset by another company and returned to them. As a consumer I would have not complained if my refund was held up under those circumstances but I would be out of my mind if they did this to a loose unset stone. And I think you have every right to be upset and mention this here, as it was not made clear to you. I think BGD should write up this policy so others aren’t surprised. I don’t think they anticipated this return so likely didn’t warn you about their procedures. They should have. This is not your fault, and it was not made clear. So in that sense you have every right to be very upset, it should have been clear, and I am sorry this is happening.
 
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Katty01Kat

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Regarding #2, $250 for parts and labor to replace a white gold head and set a stone seems like a good deal. I think WF charges $75 to set a diamond. Labor to remove a head and solder a new head into a ring maybe is $100. White gold head from Stuller... I’m going to guess $150? So in total I’d guess $325 total cost. So it’s not implausible that they actually did pay $180 more than the $250, although it seems on the high side. By they way, I had thought they charged you only $180 for labor, parts, etc. (which I thought was a good deal) so I agree with you here, and them changing their mind and charging you more now seems vindictive and petty.

Second, their not returning your nice box, also not so great. I had that happen when I had a local PS vendor set my branded superideal, but their diamond setter misplaced my box, not the vendor, so I’m now out a nice box. :( I can understand it. We’ve had PS complaints on this exact thing where expensive rings are given back in tissue paper. In my opinion, times are really tough for artisans and craftsmen, and I forgive all this stuff but the vendors who do a nice job at presentation are always noticed appreciated.

I don’t know that their policy is to refund payment 3-5 days after a set and worn diamond is unset by another company and returned to them. As a consumer I would have not complained if my refund was held up under those circumstances but I would be out of my mind if they did this to a loose unset stone. And I think you have every right to be upset and mention this here, as it was not made clear to you. I think BGD should write up this policy so others aren’t surprised. I don’t think they anticipated this return so likely didn’t warn you about their procedures. They should have. This is not your fault, and it was not made clear. So in that sense you have every right to be very upset, it should have been clear, and I am sorry this is happening.

Thanks. I just need this chapter closed out. Been stressing about it quite a bit. It's nice to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this is just absurd. I haven't been on Pricescope since looking for an engagement ring a decade ago so I didn't see all the forums about BGD's customer service. Wish I had.
 

LightBright

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@LightBright I’m really not trying to be argumentative. You don’t think Brian Gavin, the man we recommend for recuts of heirlooms, can make sure a diamond isn’t damaged?

Hi, I know you aren’t being argumentative. We are diamond nerds here, and we are discussing details. The thing is, Brian Gavin doesn’t do lab reports, AGS does. The report defines the stone and reinforces a value of a stone it has inspected. If the stone might not be in the same condition AGS needs to reinspect.

I recall when CBI did that “perfect” D IF stone, they put a “do not use tweezers” post it note on it. That made sense to me. It had not yet reached the buyer. Professionals were not taking chances. And when the buyer got his diamond with the AGS report, he could expect nothing less. Maybe I’m crazy. But I’ve had stuff happen. Once when a setter was unsetting a diamond and once when my loose stone got bounced. So I can understand BGD not taking chances. That’s all I’m saying.

What is unreasonable is that the customer wasn’t made aware that 3-5 days refund is for loose unset stones.
 
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LightBright

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Thank you OP for posting about your experience. It serves as valuable feedback. I’m sorry it took so much frustration and effort to come to this.

The good news is that your Crafted By Infinity is going to knock your socks off. I love my CBI and my experience with High Performance Diamonds was top notch. Please post all the details in SMTB and in the CBI thread when you get them. Very excited for you!!!
 

cmd2014

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I always think that the true test of a company comes when things don’t go right - and when someone makes a return. If returns are not handled well (threatened, hit with up-charges, unreasonably delayed, poor communication, bullying) then there IS risk to consumers if they choose to buy from that vendor, and that’s important to know. It’s easy to have a smooth transaction with a purchase. It’s returns where the rubber hits the road. So saying “I had a wonderful experience” with a purchase is not at all the same thing as “they were reasonable to deal with on returns.” I expect a no questions asked return policy within the return window. I expect to be reimbursed within 3-5 days of receipt of the item. I expect to be treated courteously and not up-charged for things that weren’t disclosed. I don’t think that’s too much to ask, and many vendors here do it with class and grace. @Wewechew, I appreciate you posting, and I’m sorry you got jumped on by some BGD fans.
 
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Katty01Kat

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Could not have said it better. :clap:
 

headlight

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What a stressful situation. I think it’s just the way they’ve handled things.
The cost for the work was reasonable... in my area (Southern California), i would probably pay approx $400.
I can understand the need for AGS to re-certify ... that stone’s entire value rides on that piece of paper from AGS.
Honestly, had it been removed by anyone other than CBI, I think it would’ve been way worse... in this situation they know CBI knows what they are doing!
But the scare tactics are uncalled for. I’m sorry you lost the box but clearly they aren’t going to pay to ship it back and, quite honestly, do you really want a box now with their name on it? CBI is now your diamond source! Find yourself a pretty box to store the earrings in... are they studs?... get something from The Mrs. Box.
This topic of ordering online and then returning has always fascinated me, as one does not know what goes on when the diamond is in the possession of a buyer who returns it.
I do know that I’ve been really turned off by the various stories I’ve heard here about BGD. Even their website reads “arrogance” to me. I just don’t get that feeling from some of the other preferred vendors here... and some of these other vendors have such amazing upgrade policies it’s pretty much a no-brainer to me.
Did you pay with a credit card?
 

Katty01Kat

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What a stressful situation. I think it’s just the way they’ve handled things.
The cost for the work was reasonable... in my area (Southern California), i would probably pay approx $400.
I can understand the need for AGS to re-certify ... that stone’s entire value rides on that piece of paper from AGS.
Honestly, had it been removed by anyone other than CBI, I think it would’ve been way worse... in this situation they know CBI knows what they are doing!
But the scare tactics are uncalled for. I’m sorry you lost the box but clearly they aren’t going to pay to ship it back and, quite honestly, do you really want a box now with their name on it? CBI is now your diamond source! Find yourself a pretty box to store the earrings in... are they studs?... get something from The Mrs. Box.
This topic of ordering online and then returning has always fascinated me, as one does not know what goes on when the diamond is in the possession of a buyer who returns it.
I do know that I’ve been really turned off by the various stories I’ve heard here about BGD. Even their website reads “arrogance” to me. I just don’t get that feeling from some of the other preferred vendors here... and some of these other vendors have such amazing upgrade policies it’s pretty much a no-brainer to me.
Did you pay with a credit card?

Nope. I wired the money. Ugh.

You're right, I don't care about the box. I just think them keeping it and sending it back in paper says a lot about them. They are studs so I just keep them on. The more I think about it, I'm glad HPD did it rather than just sending the ring back. They know HPD is reputable and would have documented the unmounting and condition. If that's how they treat HPD, I can't imagine what they would have said about the ring from me even if I had for less than a week.
 

Katty01Kat

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BGD is not being criticized for wanting to send the stone to AGS to verify state, @LightBright. They’re being criticized for how they’re going about it:
1. Tell the customer what the return process will be and what all associates charges will be prior to initiating a return transaction.
2. Don’t resort to fearmongering. I’m the sort of person who honestly wouldn’t sleep at night if a vendor I’d bought a $20k stone from told me that it was “so marked up” on return. Filthy compared to when they took glamour photos? Sure, I believe it. Put the damn thing in the ultrasonic for thirty seconds. “So marked up” is an assertion of actual damage, which they quite obviously have not yet verified - this is NOT an accusation to be tossed lightly over the table in pique.

Ditto on the sleep factor. That's me and I can't relax. I'm glued to PS (obviously, lol) to help make me feel better.
 

amoline

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Not to get into a debate/discussion of it, but $150 for a white gold head from a place like Stuller is most certainly vastly overestimated.

I'd venture to say what I know about weight that a head probably weighs about half a gram.. give or take. And, gold is about $50 per gram at the moment... so, there's the math for you...

Now, what BGD decides they're going to charge for labor is of course entirely subjective and up to them.

I am glad, at least, that you got that extra $180 floating around sorted out. Now, I'm wishing you ease of process for the remainder of the ordeal, and I'm grateful, too, that HPD was involved.

Although their stones are beautiful, some of my BGD customer service experiences have left a bad taste for me, so I understand how you feel.

Wishing all the best.
 

sarahb

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Not to jump on BGD, but my first (and only) experience with BGD was a simple OEC Barbara pendant setting I had them make for a stone I supplied. I love the pendant, but after that experience, I won't do business with BGD again. A marked contrast to what I've always experienced from WF. WF defines superior customer experience IMHO. (I should note, I've purchased diamonds only from both WF & GOG, when Jonathan was there.)

I'm sorry @Katty01Kat for the mess you've found yourself in. Its a shame, purchasing a piece of jewelry does not have to be a stressful situation.:(2
 

Katty01Kat

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Thanks everyone! We'll see what happens on Monday when it arrives at AGS. I'm told AGS typically takes minimally a week. :wall:
 

tigertales

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They're not happy losing the sale, and they will drag this out FOREVER.

Gavin trying to upsell fluorescence. C'mon.
 

Katty01Kat

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Well, that doesn't make me feel good at all.

I just really hope they clean this up asap knowing it's a terrible look for the brand.

If the timeline becomes unreasonable, then we'll proceed accordingly.
 

Wewechew

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Well, that doesn't make me feel good at all.

I just really hope they clean this up asap knowing it's a terrible look for the brand.

If the timeline becomes unreasonable, then we'll proceed accordingly.
Please don't freak out. I have a feeling as soon as the stone is back from AGS they will send your refund.

@tigertales For the record, some of actually prefer stones with fluorescence. No need to bash them for educating consumers about it.
 

lovedogs

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Please don't freak out. I have a feeling as soon as the stone is back from AGS they will send your refund.

@tigertales For the record, some of actually prefer stones with fluorescence. No need to bash them for educating consumers about it.
Agreed about fluor. I actually have no issue with the video, though obviously don't like what theyve done to OP so far.
 

whitewave

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Well, that doesn't make me feel good at all.

I just really hope they clean this up asap knowing it's a terrible look for the brand.

If the timeline becomes unreasonable, then we'll proceed accordingly.

What doesn’t make you feel good at all? That Tigertales is trying to be super mega dramatic about it all?
 
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AdaBeta27

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I'm surprised that BGD even offers refunds in 3-5 days. I can recall not so long ago when some policies stated refund within 30 days, and it would be in the form of a check. Sounds like you'd have been farther ahead to ship your complete ring back to BGD unmodified and let them unmount the diamond they mounted. Instead, you gave them a reason to balk and they seized it. You should have anticipated some complications due to the amount of money involved. Of course they will send the diamond out for re-grading, because it would need a new report before it could be resold for top dollar, in any case, and AGS grade has the last word for pricing. Sure Gavin can inspect a diamond, but he wants the paper to guarantee that he has a diamond with the same worth it had when it went out. It's a big diamond and I presume a large sum of money to have to refund, and that plus NOT receiving the ring back exactly as-shipped changes the ballgame. Most refund policies require a return of the item in exactly same condition as shipped. As for the extra $180, was that really so much money to you? BGD would have been smarter to call it a handling fee for accepting a return not exactly as-sent. As for the BGD attitude, I've encountered many retailers who were quite cordial to all potential or actual customers, but much less so to those who have ceased to be a customer. You are not spending big money there anymore; you are demanding it back. Everyone has boundaries, kwim?

I bought 2 diamonds from Good Old Gold 10 years ago, and had an old diamond recut by BGD back in 2012 or so. I don't have a dog in this fight. But I have worked in retail, and I can tell you that there's nothing more infuriating than a special snowflake who wants to tell you how to run your own business. Tread lightly and be respectful. You will get your refund, but the balance of power is on their side now. That's a tough lesson for some people.
 

whitewave

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I don’t believe HPD would have damaged it, but IMO BGD has the right to have an external authority verify that the current state of the stone matches the report. They should have clearly communicated the possibility of needing to send the stone to AGS if they didn’t unmount it.

Glad they are “waiving” the $180. You have every right to be furious about that spot of nonsense.

Claiming your stone was “marked up and filthy” sounds like exactly the sort of hyperbolic tantrum they’ve become known for here on PS. Unfortunately there are a number of threads regarding BGD personnel failing on customer service, from top down - we’ve heard of astonishing rudeness, condescension, and misleading judgments. So don’t worry about it. You’ll 100% get your refund. Glad you found an alternate vendor whose professionalism you can count on.

I read it as she had HPD unmount the stone before asking BGD what they wanted her to do, and that may be the sticking point. And then it went back to OP from HPD and then OP sent it back to BG, so I have zero problems with BGD sending it back to AGS for verification.

It sounds like OP did what she wanted and then consulted BGD which IMO is a mistake.

I’m not going to nitpick the rest. I felt this was a big point.
 

whitewave

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I also read it as the 3-5 day return is what is stated on the website and not what OP was told by BGD. I assume it will be 3-5 days from return from AGS.
 

the_mother_thing

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Ditto @AdaBeta27 ‘s post above.

Most vendors would balk at anyone but them ‘touching’ their product, and even state such in their policies. That’s not to say HPD did/would do anything wrong, but it probably would have been better for OP to have the original vendor (BGD) handle the unmounting. I’m not clear why it wasn’t done that way in the first place, to be honest. If anything, it really just added time to ship it to HPD, have it unmounted, then ship it back to OP, and OP to ship it back to BGD ... seems unnecessary really, unless OP wanted a side by side comparison of her BGD and the CBI loose, in which case, that’s not BGD’s fault and you can’t blame BGD for having it recert’ed ... but maybe I am confused/missing something. :confused:

OP - BGD is gonna want to get that diamond back from AGS and up for sale as quickly (if not more quickly) as you want your refund, so I sincerely doubt they’ll stretch things out just to pee on your CBI purchase plans. Just be patient and respectful toward the vendors and let the process happen.

I say all of that as someone who is not a fan of BGD.
 

Katty01Kat

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I'm surprised that BGD even offers refunds in 3-5 days. I can recall not so long ago when some policies stated refund within 30 days, and it would be in the form of a check. Sounds like you'd have been farther ahead to ship your complete ring back to BGD unmodified and let them unmount the diamond they mounted. Instead, you gave them a reason to balk and they seized it. You should have anticipated some complications due to the amount of money involved. Of course they will send the diamond out for re-grading, because it would need a new report before it could be resold for top dollar, in any case, and AGS grade has the last word for pricing. Sure Gavin can inspect a diamond, but he wants the paper to guarantee that he has a diamond with the same worth it had when it went out. It's a big diamond and I presume a large sum of money to have to refund, and that plus NOT receiving the ring back exactly as-shipped changes the ballgame. Most refund policies require a return of the item in exactly same condition as shipped. As for the extra $180, was that really so much money to you? BGD would have been smarter to call it a handling fee for accepting a return not exactly as-sent. As for the BGD attitude, I've encountered many retailers who were quite cordial to all potential or actual customers, but much less so to those who have ceased to be a customer. You are not spending big money there anymore; you are demanding it back. Everyone has boundaries, kwim?

I bought 2 diamonds from Good Old Gold 10 years ago, and had an old diamond recut by BGD back in 2012 or so. I don't have a dog in this fight. But I have worked in retail, and I can tell you that there's nothing more infuriating than a special snowflake who wants to tell you how to run your own business. Tread lightly and be respectful. You will get your refund, but the balance of power is on their side now. That's a tough lesson for some people.

It's almost funny that it appears we are going backwards to rehash what we've already established as the crux of the issue. Not including some of the misunderstandings that others have already posted on and been corrected. So I will not go there as it's not worth it.

What I do want to address is; being called a *snowflake ; being told that I need to be respectful; assuming that I should not care about $180; assuming that I'm telling BGD how to run their business. None of these are accurate.

So let me try and explainy position or grievances. If you dont agree, that fine. As you said, you're not at risk and neither is your money.

I've been purposely respectly of everyone on the forum including the vendor being as objective as possible given the situation. The facts are the facts along with what was contractually promised via the website. What I would say is disrespectful is assuming that I'm just being a snowflake and disrespectful of anyone. In spite all of the fear mongering and questionable business practices, I've been cordial, not that I should even have to explainyself to someone .aking assumptions otherwise.
As the next point, I dont care if you are rich beyond imagination or poor, you should be respectful of anyone's dollar regardless of the amount. You have no idea what an individual has gone through to get to where they are or be in a position to make a purchase. $180 could be someone's everything. To assume that it is not worth anything is to be disrespectful. Furthermore, I won't rehash what everyone else has already addressed into why that is just unethical business behavior. It's also entirely not the point.
I've never once told BGD how they should run their business. I have only communicated the disparity between what they publicly advertise to gain clients vs what I'm being told is the process and the failure to communicate ahead of time what to do or what to expect. Would it have impacted my decision to buy if the website stated a 30 day refund process with all these additional parameters? Absolutely. That's why this information is on their website because its inherent in the purchase contract.

As one commenter noted, there are other vendors who handle this process with grace and class. That is a sign of a good company. Just because we have there are hurt feelings because I decided to purchase fro. Another vendor, it doesn't justify mistreatment. Especially as I was a repeat customer.

Also worth noting, there are many avenues that I could take for a remedy but despite your assumptions/inferences, I am holding tight. I am trying to be as patient and respectful of the process as possible. There are plenty who would have pushed back more aggressively.

You dont have to agree as I am not trying to argue. Just my two cents.

Ps, the "sounds like you were ahead of the process comment" was the same rhetoric they gave me which was inaccurate. I have a timeline with correspondence that proves otherwise. There was time for them to communicate the process before HPD unmounted it.
 
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