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Crown painted super ideal?

uxr51

Rough_Rock
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Jul 4, 2019
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Would you say this is a crown painted super ideal? What is the feeling on painted super ideals lately?



painted.png
 

mwilliamanderson

Brilliant_Rock
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Aug 13, 2013
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I‘ve been seeing some similar images in my own diamond searches and have also wondered what I was looking at. Your question prompted me to dig a little bit so I just reread a Whiteflash article on the subject and I’m not seeing the increased green they say occurs when painting or digging exceeds certain degree thresholds. The summary quoted below put my mind to rest.


Visible Effects of Painting and Digging on Superideal Diamonds

Summary
Even moderate pavilion painting (2A, 3A) and digging anywhere on the diamond (1B, 2B, 2C) should be downgraded. However, crown-only painting (1A) should be treated differently, as it does not reduce performance until extremes and can be used to positively enhance optical properties. This agrees with the American Gem Society’s diamond-specific ray-tracing research, studies at Moscow State University and independent leaders in the field of optics.

To this end, we believe crown-only painting should be independent of other painting/digging judgments.
 

ponyrider

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
46
Can someone explain what this means? I have never heard these terms.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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My general opinion is the same as it’s always been - “bright and boring”.

This stone? So little - IMO not worth fussing over if other stats, price, and vendor are right. I’m sure it’s lovely IRL. Can’t speak to “superideal” but certainly very nice make.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,627
The WF take on it is not universally accepted.
The negative impact on scintillation over takes any gains anywhere else in my opinion.
GIA is harsh on any major painting/digging, correctly in my opinion.
 

uxr51

Rough_Rock
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Jul 4, 2019
Messages
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My general opinion is the same as it’s always been - “bright and boring”.

This stone? So little - IMO not worth fussing over if other stats, price, and vendor are right. I’m sure it’s lovely IRL. Can’t speak to “superideal” but certainly very nice make.

The stone appears to have around 3 degrees of panting according the the pricescope article. The stone is a 2.6 carat. Regular market price between known super ideal vendors.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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The stone appears to have around 3 degrees of panting according the the pricescope article. The stone is a 2.6 carat. Regular market price between known super ideal vendors.

Okay. And?
 

uxr51

Rough_Rock
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Jul 4, 2019
Messages
13
Okay. And?
I am unsure if its worth to pay normal pricing on a stone with crown painting. Most stones on the market have much less painting than this.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,975
This is reasonable amount of painting for a non super ideal cut diamond. In addition, it has near perfect optimal symmetry.
 

uxr51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
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This is reasonable amount of painting for a non super ideal cut diamond. In addition, it has near perfect optimal symmetry.

This is supposed to be a super ideal from a very well known super ideal vendor.
2.48 carat
Table: 56.8%
Crown angle: 34.4
Pavillion angle: 40.7
Star: 53
LGF: 75
8.77 x 8.82 x 5.30
 
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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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This is reasonable amount of painting for a non super ideal cut diamond. In addition, it has near perfect optimal symmetry.
I honestly have zero idea what I'm looking at here. Is the painting/digging the green?
 

Wewechew

Ideal_Rock
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I honestly have zero idea what I'm looking at here. Is the painting/digging the green?
It looks like the same amount of green on all the super ideals. Maybe my eye isn’t trained enough to be able to see it? :doh:
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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18,014
It looks like the same amount of green on all the super ideals. Maybe my eye isn’t trained enough to be able to see it? :doh:
That's why I was so confused!!!
 

mwilliamanderson

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
1,221
That's why I was so confused!!!

The OP’s first picture reminded me of this image. The pink triangles on either side of the arrow head is what I’ve been seeing on random diamonds here and there and wondering about. Whatever it is I’m guessing it’s not painting or digging.


C2E8F3CD-1BD5-4B76-A94A-81C9456D5B28.jpeg
 

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flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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The OP’s first picture reminded me of this image. The pink triangles on either side of the arrow head is what I’ve been seeing on random diamonds here and there and wondering about. Whatever it is I’m guessing it’s not painting or digging.


C2E8F3CD-1BD5-4B76-A94A-81C9456D5B28.jpeg
Sorry, this diamond does not have significant painting/digging (at least not as heavily as the one in the OP) It mostly has the classic girdle to my eyes.
 

Wewechew

Ideal_Rock
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Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
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Would you say this is a crown painted super ideal? What is the feeling on painted super ideals lately?



painted.png
The purpose of crown painting on super ideal diamonds is to eliminate as much light leakage as is technically possible. Combining precision cutting with non-standard angles/azimuths of the upper girdle half facets, the goal of the technique is to optimize the brightness of the diamond. The EightStar is the best known of precision cut diamonds aiming for this outcome.

But the results in terms of eye appeal are not an open and shut case. Some believe that what is gained in incremental brightness is lost in reduced scintillation. In this sense, the issue is more of a taste factor than a cut quality factor.

As alluded to in an earlier post, GIA has a broad-brush approach to this cutting technique which does not take into account the context in which it has been applied by the cutter. The GIA system does not actually measure the light performance of the diamond. AGS on the other hand, ray traces the diamond so it can determine if any deficits have been introduced to light performance due to non standard indexing.

Having said that, the AGS system does not yet directly factor scintillation into its grading algorithm. However, it does measure the structured contrast necessary to produce scintillation.

More info here: https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/what-is-diamond-brillianteering-1616.htm
 
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