The Mueller Report Is Out

[Madam Bijoux]

Meanwhile, at the Olympics:

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Next on The Walking Dead: Negan gets a new name and a new job.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We need more truth. I hope our next president is an honest person who will follow the law. This current one is an insult to the constitution and decency.

Yes we do! like who lied to the FISA court to obtain the warrants?.

 

[jaaron]

Well, now we know it w1s a perfectly appropriate comparison.

Erm, so are you still saying that, after reading the report, which I assume you have done, you still believe "Right, that means they only have a theory that can’t be proven or can’t even be begun to be investigated. That means nothing or close to nothing. Not even a spark."?

Because if you have, and you do, I don't think there's anything I can say other than that we seem to have vastly different reading comprehension.

 

[redwood66]

If one accepted Comey's July 2016 press conference then they should have no problem accepting Mueller's report. Frankly IMO, since no charges were brought in either case (on Clinton and Trump) then we should not have been privy to any of it. That does not happen IRL with investigations that do not result in prosecutions, and grand jury testimony is never public. It probably will harm Dems if they go down a road of impeachment for obstruction and will likely ensure Trump's reelection. People are tired of this.

 

[bludiva]

If one accepted Comey's July 2016 press conference then they should have no problem accepting Mueller's report. Frankly IMO, since no charges were brought in either case (on Clinton and Trump) then we should not have been privy to any of it. That does not happen IRL with investigations that do not result in prosecutions, and grand jury testimony is never public. It probably will harm Dems if they go down a road of impeachment for obstruction and will likely ensure Trump's reelection. People are tired of this.

I don't thing Dems have appetite for impeachment and I think we are better served to just hold tight til 2020 and focus on getting electing leaders who will serve the country and not themselves. I hope any wrongdoing brought to light by the Mueller report is referred to the appropriate law enforcement authorities to be acted upon once the offenders are out of office/power.

 

[Calliecake]

I think it pointless to try to impeach Trump. The Senate will never vote to impeach him. People are tired of all the damn lying this president does. I was disappointed that people surrounding Trump did not have the country’s best interest at heart. Barr is not Trump’s personal lawyer. He did not act with the American people’s best interest at heart. The report was much worse than anything I expected. How do these people look themselves in the mirror? How does Sarah Huckabee Sanders look at her children?

It will interesting to see how this president is depicted in history books years from now.

 

[bludiva]

*slight threadjack* This is not about the Mueller report or Trump administration but since the 2nd amendment drumbeat was so strong in Trump's campaign and likely will be again....just another example of how much we've gotten used to corruption - the NRA is a mess that exists to make a few people a lot of money....we need to hold organizations accountable.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/secrecy-self-dealing-and-greed-at-the-nra

 

[Karl_K]

*slight threadjack* This is not about the Mueller report or Trump administration but since the 2nd amendment drumbeat was so strong in Trump's campaign and likely will be again....just another example of how much we've gotten used to corruption - the NRA is a mess that exists to make a few people a lot of money....we need to hold organizations accountable.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/secrecy-self-dealing-and-greed-at-the-nra

*yawn* another hit piece by a zero credibility source.
The NRA is hurting by illegal attacks by NY state government.

 

[Karl_K]

Now that they witch hunt is winding down and blown up lets investigate the conspiracy against Sanders by Clinton and the DNC.
That is much more harmful to the republic than Russians running commercials on fakebook.

 

[Matata]

Now that they witch hunt is winding down and blown up lets investigate the conspiracy against Sanders by Clinton and the DNC. That is much more harmful to the republic than Russians running commercials on fakebook.

You have underestimated the depth, sophistication, and breadth of what the Russians have done and you have underestimated the vulnerability and numbers of American people who easily come under the influence of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

 

[bludiva]

*yawn* another hit piece by a zero credibility source.
The NRA is hurting by illegal attacks by NY state government.

Does not look like they could pass an independent audit. When have we stopped caring if institutions abuse their non profit status?

I would have liked to see a Clinton/Sanders ticket last time. It was awful to see their campaigns tear each other down. Whoever gets the Democratic nomination I hope they bring some fairness, foresight, and accountability to our government. Can't look to today's Republican party for that.

 

[redwood66]

You have underestimated the depth, sophistication, and breadth of what the Russians have done and you have underestimated the vulnerability and numbers of American people who easily come under the influence of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

This is certainly true no matter what political party affiliation they have.

 

[Calliecake]

Now that they witch hunt is winding down and blown up lets investigate the conspiracy against Sanders by Clinton and the DNC.
That is much more harmful to the republic than Russians running commercials on fakebook.

Spoken like a true Trump supporter. Now throw in a healthy dose of “I didn’t vote for him” and you are good to go.

Republicans continue to try to deflect with “what about Hillary”. Mueller’s report did not exonerate Trump, no matter how many times Barr and Trump tell you it did. Let me quess, we aren’t supposed to believe all the facts that were laid out in Mueller’s report?

We have a Senate full of people who will not put the country above their party. That should scare the hell out of all of us.

 

[Karl_K]

Spoken like a true Trump supporter. Now throw in a healthy dose of “I didn’t vote for him” and you are good to go.

ROFL
Trump is at about 50/50 to me and I did vote for him but not in the primary.
Still better than Clinton would have been.

 

[Calliecake]

Did you watch any news (other than Fox] yesterday @Karl_K ???

 

[House Cat]

I see two separate and totally unrelated subjects.

I find the Russian meddling extremely concerning. It was an attack on our democracy.

I find what the DNC did to Bernie and the voters almost as concerning. I am now an independent voter because of it. It was also an attack on our democracy.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You have underestimated the depth, sophistication, and breadth of what the Russians have done and you have underestimated the vulnerability and numbers of American people who easily come under the influence of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

You mean like what MSNBC and CNN been doing for the past 2.5 yrs?

 

[Karl_K]

Did you watch any news (other than Fox] yesterday @Karl_K ???

dont watch fox try again

 

[Karl_K]

You have underestimated the depth, sophistication, and breadth of what the Russians have done and you have underestimated the vulnerability and numbers of American people who easily come under the influence of propaganda and conspiracy theories.

Do you know how elitist that sounds?
I don't know anyone who was influenced one way or the other by any fakebook advertising.

As I recall it was a lot of democrats who were taken in by propaganda..he cant win.. she cant lose!!!
Almost forgot Trump colluded with the Russians propaganda.

 

[Matata]

Do you know how elitist that sounds?
I don't know anyone who was influenced one way or the other by any fakebook advertising.

Elitist. Wow. You've obviously partaken of the Kool-Aid. Your posts about this topic reveal you to be a member of the vulnerable flock. Perhaps you haven't encountered anyone influenced by "fakebook" because you don't have relationships with people who think differently than you. There was more involved in the propaganda machine than Facebook. It's useless to explain where your logic is flawed because I don't think you care. I would really like to see you broaden your mindset because you're generally a really nice guy although quite naive.

 

[AGBF]

Do you know how elitist that sounds?
I don't know anyone who was influenced one way or the other by any fakebook advertising.

As I recall it was a lot of democrats who were taken in by propaganda..he cant win.. she cant lose!!!
Almost forgot Trump colluded with the Russians propaganda.

I do not think what Matata said was elitist. Several people to whom I have spoken since the redacted Mueller report was released by Barr have totally failed to understand what it says. The Russians and the Republicans have done a very good job in misleading many people about what has actually happened in the elections and since then.

I like this opinion piece by Michelle Goldberg which asserts that in a functional society impeachment proceedings would be underway. (Please do not take that to mean that I advocate impeachment. Ours is not a functional society, and like Joe Scarborough, I do not know if the best way to proceed is or is not impeachment, although it is the Constitutional duty of Congress to impeach.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/opinion/mueller-report-trump-barr-impeachment.html

 

[Karl_K]

Elitist. Wow. You've obviously partaken of the Kool-Aid. Your posts about this topic reveal you to be a member of the vulnerable flock. Perhaps you haven't encountered anyone influenced by "fakebook" because you don't have relationships with people who think differently than you. There was more involved in the propaganda machine than Facebook. It's useless to explain where your logic is flawed because I don't think you care. I would really like to see you broaden your mindset because you're generally a really nice guy although quite naive.

You know i get really annoyed when people make wrong assumptions about me but I am a nice guy so im not going to snap back.

 

[AGBF]

Elitist. Wow. You've obviously partaken of the Kool-Aid. Your posts about this topic reveal you to be a member of the vulnerable flock. Perhaps you haven't encountered anyone influenced by "fakebook" because you don't have relationships with people who think differently than you. There was more involved in the propaganda machine than Facebook. It's useless to explain where your logic is flawed because I don't think you care. I would really like to see you broaden your mindset because you're generally a really nice guy although quite naive.

I didn't mean to answer for you. I was typing while you were.

AGBF

 

[Karl_K]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/opinion/mueller-report-trump-barr-impeachment.html

How is an op-ed whining about the electoral college doing its job supposed to be informative?

 

[Matata]

You know i get really annoyed when people make wrong assumptions about me but I am a nice guy so im not going to snap back.

Our words here are the only way we have of evaluating each other. I accept that the way I "talk" here has given you the impression I'm elitist. I'm not annoyed by it. Your posts give me the impression you don't think too deeply about politics. If you convince me that that is wrong assumption about you, I'll let you know.

 

[Karl_K]

Our words here are the only way we have of evaluating each other. I accept that the way I "talk" here has given you the impression I'm elitist. I'm not annoyed by it. Your posts give me the impression you don't think too deeply about politics. If you convince me that that is wrong assumption about you, I'll let you know.

lol ok fair enough....
But I want to be clear.....
I said it sounded elitist not that your elitist.
Someone can post something that sounds elitist to some people without being elitist.

 

[AGBF]

How is an op-ed whining about the electoral college doing its job supposed to be informative?

The electoral college is not the subject of the essay, Karl. I also never found Michelle Goldberg to be a "whiner". The subject of the essay is how Trump's mendacity has been so all encompassing for so long that much of what he says goes unquestioned by many Americans. Ms. Goldman writes below:

"This quickly became our new normal. Once Republicans realized the power they could amass by collaborating in Trumpian mendacity, most of them gleefully abandoned any sense of epistemological solidarity with their fellow Americans. There’s a reason 'gaslighting' has become one of the most overused terms of the Trump era."

I had never heard the term "gaslighting" until a few months ago, Karl, despite having a pretty good vocabulary. I initially didn't have a clue what it meant. It is being used now because there is a whole new level of falsehoods being propagated by our current government.

Did former governments lie? Of course they did! The Italians even have a saying which I have quoted here before, "Piove, il govierno ladro". (That translates to, "It's raining; the government lies." This lying by Trump, this "fake news" is a whole new level of falsity, however. It is brash and boldfaced lies told again and again despite the reality being on videotape and being available to disprove the new lies being told! Trump has no shame about the lies he tells, unlike past liars. He is like the fascist liars who created entire new realities or the Soviet liars. If he said black was white and white was black, he expected the people to believe him.

That is what Michelle Goldberg discusses in her essay, Karl, and I found it important reading today.

Your friend, always,
Deb/AGBF

 

[Karl_K]

Deb "There are a lot of reasons Trump’s election remains a festering wound. It was a horrifying shock to many of us and, given his decisive loss in the popular vote, an insult to democracy.

 

[AGBF]

Enjoy!