[Help wanted] First time buyer looking advice

[azdiamondbacker]

Hello,

First time buyer here looking at a few options right now (will continue to update the thread as I find more options)

First stone stats:
Cut: Round
Color: J
Carat: 1.71
Clarity: VS2
Price: ~$10,000.00
GIA: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2195675650

Second Stone stats:
Cut: Round
Color: I
Carat: 1.54
Clarity: VS2
Price: ~$11,000
GIA: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5233074261&s=1548104898791

The objective was to focus mostly on size with having a good balance on the rest of the "C's." It'll be sitting on a 4 prong simple 18ct gold band.

Please let me know your thoughts! Thank you in advance and have a great week.

 

[lovedogs]

Who is the vendor? What's your budget? Do you need a good upgrade policy? And have you run these through the HCA?

 

[azdiamondbacker]

Who is the vendor? What's your budget? Do you need a good upgrade policy? And have you run these through the HCA?

Vendor is two local shops in NYC. Budget is around the $10-$11k mark preferred. Upgrade policy would be great. HCA for stone one was 3.7 and stone two was 2.6.

 

[lovedogs]

Vendor is two local shops in NYC. Budget is around the $10-$11k mark preferred. Upgrade policy would be great. HCA for stone one was 3.7 and stone two was 2.6.

That's what I was afraid of RE: HCA. reject both. Look at WF or HP diamonds for amazing customer service and upgrade policy. On mobile saw a super ideal ("a cut above") on WF's website that's close to 1.7 and in the 11k range.

 

[lovedogs]

This one is 11.5k
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4066983.htm

And 11.3k
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018630.htm

 

[lovedogs]

And if you're open to 1.5 carats there are tons more. I was trying to get you closer to 1.7

 

[azdiamondbacker]

And if you're open to 1.5 carats there are tons more. I was trying to get you closer to 1.7

Yes around 1.5 and up works as well. I'm checking out the ones you sent right now.

 

[Athena10X]

The following are Whiteflash’s ACAs (super-ideal line) that look absolutely stunning!

[URL]https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059380.htm[/URL]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022605.htm

 

[azdiamondbacker]

The following are Whiteflash’s ACAs (super-ideal line) that look absolutely stunning!

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059380.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022605.htm

Thanks!

How do these stats look:

Price $9202
Shape Round
Weight 1.51
Cut Excellent
Fluorescence None
Polish Excellent
L/W Ratio 1.00
Table 56.00
Culet None
Crown Angle 36.50
Pavilion Angle 40.60
Certificate Lab GIA
Color I
Clarity VS2
Symmetry Excellent
Measurements 7.34 x 7.31 x 4.56 mm
Depth 62.30
Girdle Medium
GIA Number 5192050347

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks!

How do these stats look:

Price $9202
Shape Round
Weight 1.51
Cut Excellent
Fluorescence None
Polish Excellent
L/W Ratio 1.00
Table 56.00
Culet None
Crown Angle 36.50
Pavilion Angle 40.60
Certificate Lab GIA
Color I
Clarity VS2
Symmetry Excellent
Measurements 7.34 x 7.31 x 4.56 mm
Depth 62.30
Girdle Medium
GIA Number 5192050347

This is also a no. It scores above 2 on the HCA (which is a rejection tool--anything above 2 should be rejected).

Is there a reason you don't want to go with any of the WF options presented? They are significantly better than any of the choices you've been given. I would strongly suggest going with one of the PS trusted vendors rather than an unknown vendor that you know locally. Most of them don't have access to ideally cut stones and/or will overcharge significantly.

 

[azdiamondbacker]

This is also a no. It scores above 2 on the HCA (which is a rejection tool--anything above 2 should be rejected).

Is there a reason you don't want to go with any of the WF options presented? They are significantly better than any of the choices you've been given. I would strongly suggest going with one of the PS trusted vendors rather than an unknown vendor that you know locally. Most of them don't have access to ideally cut stones and/or will overcharge significantly.

Sounds good. I will definitely consider it as I am just starting my search.

If something is above 2 on the HCA. Is it an automatic reject even if the pricing is a good/great deal? Im trying to find a balance of a larger stone with a great cut but also would like to stay under $10-11k. Thanks again!

 

[lovedogs]

Sounds good. I will definitely consider it as I am just starting my search.

If something is above 2 on the HCA. Is it an automatic reject even if the pricing is a good/great deal? Im trying to find a balance of a larger stone with a great cut but also would like to stay under $10-11k. Thanks again!

Yes, it's an automatic reject if it's over 2, because it means its unlikely to be a good cut or a good performing stone. Cut is king, and if you get a poorly cut stone (or even an only "good" one), it will look smaller and less firey than an excellently cut stone. I strongly advise you to use the PS search tool and stick with stones that are under 2 on HCA and in your budget. I think if you are ok with 1.5/1.6 then there are tons of amazing options in your budget. Definitely don't skimp on cut for a bigger stone! I promise it won't be worth it. It certainly doesn't have to be a WF ACA, but there are many other alternatives that will be great performers.

 

[lovedogs]

suggested this one earlier tonight to a different poster. It saves you $, but doesn't come with the amazing upgrade policy from WF. Still worth considering bc the ASET and IS look amazing (I think).

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/114494...m_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

 

[kmoro]

Hello,

First time buyer here looking at a few options right now (will continue to update the thread as I find more options)

First stone stats:
Cut: Round
Color: J
Carat: 1.71
Clarity: VS2
Price: ~$10,000.00
GIA: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2195675650

Second Stone stats:
Cut: Round
Color: I
Carat: 1.54
Clarity: VS2
Price: ~$11,000
GIA: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=5233074261&s=1548104898791

The objective was to focus mostly on size with having a good balance on the rest of the "C's." It'll be sitting on a 4 prong simple 18ct gold band.

Please let me know your thoughts! Thank you in advance and have a great week.

As a first time buyer, are you familiar with diamond color yet? I think cut is most important, along with eye-clean clarity ... just wondering how much thought you’ve put into color?

I’m bringing it up because J color can be a bit too much tint for some, while other’s love it ... color is something you can see with the naked eye, unlike most inclusions.

AGS has a reputation for being slightly softer on color grading than GIA ... this means an AGS J could potentially be a GIA K. Most people can see tint in a K, in the face up position. Also, because of the increased tint level, you may want to make sure you like the color of the tint ... some can be more yellow, orange, brown, grey etc.

Not trying to tell you that you should get a higher color, just not sure how much you’ve thought about this or have seen in real life. I hope that you pick a color that you’re happy with.

About the size ... there is a price per carat jump at 1.5, so if it was me, I would try to get a bit farther above it to get the bang from the buck.

Another thing to consider is fluorescence. In some cases, a blue fluorescence can make a slightly yellow tinted diamond look slightly whiter, and in most cases, it has no negative impact (in rare cases, fluorescence can cause haziness) ... and there is a bit of a price discount if you don’t mind or prefer fluorescence too.

GIA will grade fluorescence “none,” “faint,” “medium” “strong” while AGS will grade “negligible,” “medium,” “strong” ... however, it is good to know that AGS “negligible” ranges from none to just under medium. Some people think GIA none and AGS negligible are the same, but they are not necessarily - however, they are generally priced the same. A GIA “faint,” for example, will carry a slight price discount, but a “faint” in AGS is graded “negligible” and priced like GIA “none” (unless vetted diamonds are given slight discounts by vendor, I don’t know ... but if you do a diamond search for no fluorescence, AGS negligible is included).

Hmmm, what else. It costs more to cut a diamond with ideal proportions because more of the rough weight is lost. This is why super ideals/ideals cost more and yes, they are worth it!

In all of the “C”s the most important is cut. Besides that exceptional performance that makes people drool, good cut means good diameter for the weight ... a “less than” cut means you’re likely paying for weight you can’t see (higher weight, smaller diameter), and if it faces up unusually large, it will have light leakage.

I guess that’s what I would like to point out to a newbie if I assume they are very new.

 

[azdiamondbacker]

As a first time buyer, are you familiar with diamond color yet? I think cut is most important, along with eye-clean clarity ... just wondering how much thought you’ve put into color?

I’m bringing it up because J color can be a bit too much tint for some, while other’s love it ... color is something you can see with the naked eye, unlike most inclusions.

AGS has a reputation for being slightly softer on color grading than GIA ... this means an AGS J could potentially be a GIA K. Most people can see tint in a K, in the face up position. Also, because of the increased tint level, you may want to make sure you like the color of the tint ... some can be more yellow, orange, brown, grey etc.

Not trying to tell you that you should get a higher color, just not sure how much you’ve thought about this or have seen in real life. I hope that you pick a color that you’re happy with.

About the size ... there is a price per carat jump at 1.5, so if it was me, I would try to get a bit farther above it to get the bang from the buck.

Another thing to consider is fluorescence. In some cases, a blue fluorescence can make a slightly yellow tinted diamond look slightly whiter, and in most cases, it has no negative impact (in rare cases, fluorescence can cause haziness) ... and there is a bit of a price discount if you don’t mind or prefer fluorescence too.

GIA will grade fluorescence “none,” “faint,” “medium” “strong” while AGS will grade “negligible,” “medium,” “strong” ... however, it is good to know that AGS “negligible” ranges from none to just under medium. Some people think GIA none and AGS negligible are the same, but they are not necessarily - however, they are generally priced the same. A GIA “faint,” for example, will carry a slight price discount, but a “faint” in AGS is graded “negligible” and priced like GIA “none” (unless vetted diamonds are given slight discounts by vendor, I don’t know ... but if you do a diamond search for no fluorescence, AGS negligible is included).

Hmmm, what else. It costs more to cut a diamond with ideal proportions because more of the rough weight is lost. This is why super ideals/ideals cost more and yes, they are worth it!

In all of the “C”s the most important is cut. Besides that exceptional performance that makes people drool, good cut means good diameter for the weight ... a “less than” cut means you’re likely paying for weight you can’t see (higher weight, smaller diameter), and if it faces up unusually large, it will have light leakage.

I guess that’s what I would like to point out to a newbie if I assume they are very new.

Color is definitely a consideration. Im setting this on a classic yellow gold 18ct band. I've been told that when setting on a yellow band you can go a bit lower on color as it wont stand out as much.

Im thinking an H VS2/VS1 "eye clean" in the range of 1.5-1.6 would be ideal for me.

Im finding some good deals but what is throwing it off is the proportions of the cut (table/depth/crown angle/pavillion angle) being over a 2 on the HCA tool.

Thoughts on if its over 2 but close? When asking for a diamond from local and online retailers is there a specific (more toned down) range of Table, Depth, Crown Angle, Pavilion angle that I should be asking for?

From previous threads and research ive been told this:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer 62 or less)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets

Thank you!

 

[beardog]

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer 62 or less)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets
• Ideally that's what you'd be using as your base line search criteria. Then you probably won't keep wasting your time with the same HCA issues

 

[LLJsmom]

If you buy a bigger diamond but compromise on cut, your diamond won’t look bigger. Without edge to edge sparkle, it will look smaller. And a smaller diamond that is super ideal (usually the best cut) will look bigger. If you focus on size and compromise on cut you’ll just have a rock that looks Ho-Hum. It’s there but isn’t that interesting or lively or stunning. You sure you want to settle like that?

 

[lovedogs]

Color is definitely a consideration. Im setting this on a classic yellow gold 18ct band. I've been told that when setting on a yellow band you can go a bit lower on color as it wont stand out as much.

Im thinking an H VS2/VS1 "eye clean" in the range of 1.5-1.6 would be ideal for me.

Im finding some good deals but what is throwing it off is the proportions of the cut (table/depth/crown angle/pavillion angle) being over a 2 on the HCA tool.

Thoughts on if its over 2 but close? When asking for a diamond from local and online retailers is there a specific (more toned down) range of Table, Depth, Crown Angle, Pavilion angle that I should be asking for?

From previous threads and research ive been told this:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer 62 or less)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets

Thank you!

The issue is that you aren't finding ideally proportioned stones. That's the reason they seem like "good deals". They aren't actually good deals, because they won't look as nice in real life.

 

[azdiamondbacker]

Hey All - Really appreciate the advice. This is exactly why I came to the forum and all the info you have sent me is amazing. Ill look for an ideally proportioned stone and post it when I find one.

Again im thinking my range will be:

1.5-1.7ct
H/I color
VS2 "eye clean" or better
under 2 on the HCA scale with the proportions listed above.

If you guys run across any, please post. Thanks again for the input!

 

[beardog]

If you do a search on WF for I color VS2+ under 13k >1.4 CT & under advanced options click ACA/ES/PS you'll see a bunch of good options right now. Coming in just under 1.5 is a good hustle because youll save on the target size premium & won't notice the difference with your eye.

 

[lovedogs]

If you do a search on WF for I color VS2+ under 13k >1.4 CT & under advanced options click ACA/ES/PS you'll see a bunch of good options right now. Coming in just under 1.5 is a good hustle because youll save on the target size premium & won't notice the difference with your eye.

Agreed, except in general I would avoid PS on their site bc you don't get all the upgrade benefits, so it's no better than buying from any website. I would stick to ACA or ES (and make sure it's a good ES) if I were OP.

 

[lovedogs]

OP, are you still wanting to stay under 11k for the diamond? That helps narrow things down.

 

[lovedogs]

If you need under 11k for the stone:

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...rat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-6166778

For this second one I'd confirm with JA that it's eye clean.
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2430876


I'd strongly advise you allow for eye clean SI1 options since that helps open up choices

 

[beardog]

l I would avoid PS on their site bc you don't get all the upgrade benefits

That's huge... I didn't know that

 

[Gussie]

I thought that wf upgrade policy was for all in house stones, including premium select. Has this changed recently?

 

[Gussie]

Just checked wf website, upgrade policy includes in house ps too!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I thought that wf upgrade policy was for all in house stones, including premium select. Has this changed recently?

The WF upgrade policy has not changed. It applies equally to all three categories of in-house diamonds.
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/in-stock-diamonds-1565.htm

 

[lovedogs]

The WF upgrade policy has not changed. It applies equally to all three categories of in-house diamonds.
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/in-stock-diamonds-1565.htm

Very sorry, OP and @Texas Leaguer ! I thought PS *weren't* in house, and therefore didn't qualify. Totally wrong, my mistake!!

 

[lovedogs]

I thought that wf upgrade policy was for all in house stones, including premium select. Has this changed recently?

Nope, I'm just dumb and thought PS weren't in house stones. @beardog too. Sorry!!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Very sorry, OP and @Texas Leaguer ! I thought PS *weren't* in house, and therefore didn't qualify. Totally wrong, my mistake!!

No problem @lovedogs . If you go back far enough you will find that originally only our A CUT ABOVE diamonds carried the upgrade benefit. Over time, as our production and buying operations improved, we have added the benefit to all in-house diamonds.