shape
carat
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Newbie.. help me review this diamond

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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I adjusted the BN site settings to Sweden (Scandinavia) and changed dollars to GBP as USD was not an option.

FYI, Google is showing currency exchange at $1 USD = 0.79 GBP, meaning $2,500 USD equals approx 2,000 GBP. All these stones meet this threshold and include VAT.

All the below stones I listed have gorgeous proportions. If you are interested in any of them I'd put them on reserve and request they provide you an idealscope and/or ASET image so that we can further review them and confirm there are no issues.

BN GIA XXX, 0.61ct G VS2 @ GBP 1,923$ (55T/61.6D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)

https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct G VS2 @ GBP 1,787$ (56T/61.5D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct E VS2 @ GBP 1,854$ (56T/61.7D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct D VS1 @ GBP $1,900$ (55T/62D/35C/40.6P/80LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

This last stone has medium blue fluor, which may or may not be desirable to you as it's a preference. Typically speaking fluor isn't a problem; however, it needs to be examined to ensure no milky or hazy effects. Fluor stones typically sell for less which I think is evident here as this D VS1 is barely more expensive than the E VS2 above it. FYI, even those that prefer fluor sometimes do not like medium+ fluor in higher colored stones.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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I apologize in advance because my post is not very useful ...

I’m always confused when someone from overseas looks to buy diamonds from the US. I suppose it’s possible that the best online vendors are located in the US, but I really find it hard to believe that ideal cut diamonds can’t be found in other places of the world. Also, I can understand a US citizen abroad might take comfort in the familiarity of US vendors and business practices.

Europe is so small. If you can’t find an ideal diamond where you are in Europe, maybe take a weekend trip to a city where they have them?

I just looked at an online vendor in Israel who offers GIA diamonds at about 75% of the cost in the US. Not to mention the cutting houses in Antwerp.

For the record, PS vendors are known globally for outstanding products and services ... it’s just that there really must be others out there. I personally would not feel comfortable recommending any other vendors because I have never dealt with them, but with some research, I’m sure some good alternates can be found on other continents.

Now I’ll let you return to your regular programming, lol.

There are some super ideal vendors listed in Europe. I screen captured a list of them. They are all dealers for CBI who is based in Antwerp. Not all the cutting houses will sell to the general public and I'd be extremely leery of the ones that did sell.

I might add that @Durham Rose is a participating PS member. And Best Diamonds at the Royal Exchange isn't active here, but has helped a few different PS members make their diamond dreams come true.

Also, super ideal vendors in the USA isn't extremely common either.

Alas, you have an issues with cultural differences. It's pretty common to hear about those in the UK to have dealers that don't follow ideal cut parameters. Also, I've read others indicating larger stones (1ct+) are pretty uncommon and most are in the 0.5ct range or therabouts.
 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
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I apologize in advance because my post is not very useful ...

I’m always confused when someone from overseas looks to buy diamonds from the US. I suppose it’s possible that the best online vendors are located in the US, but I really find it hard to believe that ideal cut diamonds can’t be found in other places of the world. Also, I can understand a US citizen abroad might take comfort in the familiarity of US vendors and business practices.

Where I live there is only one vendor to sell separate diamonds online and there is a huge price difference in ordering the diamond online/through a store but when comparing the local website and blue nile there is even a bigger difference so thats why I want to go with blue nile. It wont be possible to order from US vendors since the VAT will usually be so high it wont be worth it.
 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
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All the below stones I listed have gorgeous proportions. If you are interested in any of them I'd put them on reserve and request they provide you an idealscope and/or ASET image so that we can further review them and confirm there are no issues.

BN GIA XXX, 0.61ct G VS2 @ GBP 1,923$ (55T/61.6D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)

https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct G VS2 @ GBP 1,787$ (56T/61.5D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct E VS2 @ GBP 1,854$ (56T/61.7D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct D VS1 @ GBP $1,900$ (55T/62D/35C/40.6P/80LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

Wow thanks a lot! I dont know why but I just liked this stone that I've found following you and other guides here about different proportions. Would you say that this is a a worse or a better stone than the ones that you've listed? I thought it looked beautiful in the picture.

https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond-details/LD11109368?track=Detlink1

Would I be able to reserve the stone and request a Idealscope or ASET image?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Wow thanks a lot! I dont know why but I just liked this stone that I've found following you and other guides here about different proportions. Would you say that this is a a worse or a better stone than the ones that you've listed? I thought it looked beautiful in the picture.

https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond-details/LD11109368?track=Detlink1

Would I be able to reserve the stone and request a Idealscope or ASET image?

On any stone you see you like, you can request they reserve and get you an idealscope or ASET image. Rather or not you will get those 8mages is an entirely different story.

Why? Because BN is what we call a virtual inventory dealer. This means they don't actually have the stones in their own vaults but rather they have an agreement with one or more suppliers/cutters that owns the stone and makes it available to BN (along with other vendors) to sell.

Consequently a couple of things can happen. First BN is at the mercy of the supplier on what (if any) images may be available. Secondly, if another vendor has the stone listed and sells it then sometimes there is a small time gap where live inventory varies from a particular vendors website. So occasionally someone will call to reserve and learn the stone is sold although it shows available on someone's website.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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As far as if the stone is better or not? I don't think so. You aren't getting any appreciable size increase. You are dropping in color which might be detectable and you are increasing in clarity which won't be detectable in a stone this size and unless under 10x+ magnification. Lastly you are actually paying a little more for this stone.

Now about the proportions. Yes, they fall into ideal territory and they could be great. However, you want angles to be complimentary meaning if I have a steep crown I want a shallower pavilion. Or vice versa.

Notice how the last stone I listed had a 35/40.6 combo? That is what I'd like to see, steep crown and shallow pavilion. Also I like the 34.5/40.8 combo as it's very complimentary and almost hits the Tolk ideal proportions (34.5/40.75) on the head. With a 35/40.8 you are beginning to creep up a little on the steeper side of the pavilion. Now I'm getting steep crown with a medium steep pavilion. On super ideal diamonds where cutting precision and symmetry is top notch I worry much less about this. Unfortunately in a GIA XXX stone I've seen this angle combo have light leakage and other issues on a frequent enough basis I wouldn't move forward without an idealscope or ASET image to prove all is good.

So I do prefer the stones I selected over this one. This isn't to say it's a bad selection necessarily but I just see it as more risky.
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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3,451
I apologize in advance because my post is not very useful ...

I’m always confused when someone from overseas looks to buy diamonds from the US. I suppose it’s possible that the best online vendors are located in the US, but I really find it hard to believe that ideal cut diamonds can’t be found in other places of the world. Also, I can understand a US citizen abroad might take comfort in the familiarity of US vendors and business practices.

Europe is so small. If you can’t find an ideal diamond where you are in Europe, maybe take a weekend trip to a city where they have them?

I just looked at an online vendor in Israel who offers GIA diamonds at about 75% of the cost in the US. Not to mention the cutting houses in Antwerp.

For the record, PS vendors are known globally for outstanding products and services ... it’s just that there really must be others out there. I personally would not feel comfortable recommending any other vendors because I have never dealt with them, but with some research, I’m sure some good alternates can be found on other continents.

Now I’ll let you return to your regular programming, lol.
Sorry for the thread jack, OP.
In short :NOPE.
I've talked about this with vendors and jewelers. The US are the biggest and most competitive market for diamonds.
Best choice, best prices.
Been to Antwerp. Either buy from Fortrez or don't get ideal cut diamonds. Cutters don't sell to the public. Generally even with the 20%VAT upon immigration all my diamond purchases were cheaper from the US.
Haven't been to Israel, but our relatives there don't buy locally either.... So I think it can't be cheaper than in the US for the general public....
Fun fact: we tried to look at ovals in person for my ering 12 years ago. (Paris and Berlin) We found ONE that had to be called in. Huge bow tie. Price was 20% more than the whole ring (pt setting with 0.5cttw side pears included) in the US. I showed the jeweler my stone and he said just:well done, and couldn't have offered you anything nearly as nice.People here don't spend significant money on diamonds generally. So jewelers cater to the demand for small stones. Outside of PS most people have no clue about cut.
 

MaisOuiMadame

Ideal_Rock
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OP, I have you seen that there are CBI superideal vendors in Finland and Belgium also - it's on @sledge s screenshot? Those are the top notch products cut wise. Another poster bought a small CBI stone from High performance diamonds in the US and then compared his final price (VAT, duties, and handling fees plus shipping) with the price from fortrez and it was the same. Maybe compare stones in gbp from Durham with Fortrez and Suokko in Tampere, Finland?
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I remember a few years ago Brian Gavin mentioning that body color is more visible once pavilion angle is greater than 41. But it's a D here. ;-)
That is old school industry "knowledge" when measuring tools were not what they are today.
There is a sharp increase in face up color at ~41.4 and slightly close to it, when tools had 41 and 41.5 and nothing in between it became keep it under 41.
With modern tools it is possible to get much closer to the edge than that.
 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2018
Messages
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I was concerned that stone was sold. I noticed the BN site had it listed as unavailable the other day when I initially commented on this thread. Sorry for your bad luck. But the good news is we can help you find something equally as good or better.

You mentioned the UK. Are you open to internet retailers located in the USA that would ship to the UK, or do you want someone with a UK presence?

I'm asking because for about the same money you can slip into a super ideal diamond with true hearts & arrow (H&A) symmetry. Plus you'd have access to killer upgrade programs (get full price of original diamond if you spend $1 or more on a new diamond, no other restrictions).

If you prefer a UK presence, CBI sources & cuts stones and sells through a dealer network. As such, they have shops located in the USA, UK, etc. HPD (or High Performance Diamonds) is well known on this forum and in the USA for providing excellent customer service. They seem to cater the online market more then CBI's other dealers. Nice thing is CBI works with their dealers so the diamond price is the same rather you buy from HPD or another dealer.

While I am showing you the HPD listings, you could purchase these same stones through another CBI dealer in the UK. All prices shown in $USD.

CBI/HPD 0.62ct G VS2 @ $2,772 wire
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10033

CBI/HPD 0.61ct G VS2 @ $2,727 wire
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9472

CBI/HPD 0.61ct E SI1 @ $2,652 wire
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10493

CBI/HPD 0.60ct E SI1 @ $2,608 wire
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9379


CBI Website:
http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/

Capture.PNG

I have done some more research now and will definitely look up CBI as I read some great stuff about them!
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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If the OP is based up in Scandinavia, I do remember posting on a thread earlier this year where a guy was looking at purchasing a stone and he was in Sweden. He ended up using the services of Fortrez in Belgium to purchase a stunner of a CBI stone with setting that came in under budget (and because its within the EU, he was only required to pay VAT once at Belgian rates rather than at Swedish VAT).

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-opinions-on-diamonds.240422/
 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
16
Hi Everyone,

Thanks so much for all the great input that you have given me :) I have now done a bit research on CBD stones and they seem beautiful and sparkly with a guarantee that they will have a ideal cut! I also read the other thread about buying one through Fortrez in Belgium but when searching their diamonds there were only 4 that were either to small or too expensive. I think that I will try to write to the and ask if they can find a CBI stone given my budget.

I am not hoping to much on Fortrez so I am also checking BN just in case.
Do you think that this could be good stone if Fortrez will not be possible?

https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond-details/LD11109368?track=Detlink1
or this one
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

I would really want to go with a diamond around 0.6 - 0.65. The setting I will choose will most probably be https://vanbruun.com/se/amelia-18yg?metal=8 with 18K gold. Do you think that its better to go with a 0.5 or 0.6 ct for that setting?

Another thing I have noticed was on some GIA reports it says" Clarity Characteristics : Needle, Pinpoint, Cloud " what does this mean?

Thanks a lot again! you are all so helpful for a newbie like me!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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See post #41 above. I already commented on this stone.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...eview-this-diamond.245611/page-2#post-4466107



Possibly. The 35.5 crown is pushing the limits but it can work with a 40.6 pavilion. I'd want to see an ASET or idealscope image first.

Just curioius -- was there something wrong with the BN stones I previously linked in post #31? I don't care if you buy them or not, but if you explain what you don't like then perhaps we can refine our search to find better matches.


I would really want to go with a diamond around 0.6 - 0.65. The setting I will choose will most probably be https://vanbruun.com/se/amelia-18yg?metal=8 with 18K gold. Do you think that its better to go with a 0.5 or 0.6 ct for that setting?

Haha, you came to a site full of diamond addicts. I'm pretty sure most will say the bigger 0.60ct.


Another thing I have noticed was on some GIA reports it says" Clarity Characteristics : Needle, Pinpoint, Cloud " what does this mean?

Thanks a lot again! you are all so helpful for a newbie like me!

Read this:
https://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/clarity/diamond-inclusion-types-list/
 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
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Jul 28, 2018
Messages
16
Possibly. The 35.5 crown is pushing the limits but it can work with a 40.6 pavilion. I'd want to see an ASET or idealscope image first.

Just curioius -- was there something wrong with the BN stones I previously linked in post #31? I don't care if you buy them or not, but if you explain what you don't like then perhaps we can refine our search to find better matches.

Sorry - missed that, will review them and get back to you asap :)
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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It is perfectly normal.
correct.png

I haven't built that spreadsheet yet. Do you mind sharing the formulas? I can decipher the math and logic from there. I saw a thread yesterday on this and haven't had time to dive into it so it'd save me some time.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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cheche99

Rough_Rock
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BN GIA XXX 0.60ct E VS2 @ GBP 1,854$ (56T/61.7D/34.5C/40.8P/75LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

I like this one based on the pictures. However I am a bit hesitant about the VS2 grading. I would have preferred VS1 just to be sure or am I just being paranoid? :)

BN GIA XXX 0.60ct D VS1 @ GBP $1,900$ (55T/62D/35C/40.6P/80LGF)
https://www.bluenile.com/se/diamond...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

This last stone has medium blue fluor, which may or may not be desirable to you as it's a preference. Typically speaking fluor isn't a problem; however, it needs to be examined to ensure no milky or hazy effects. Fluor stones typically sell for less which I think is evident here as this D VS1 is barely more expensive than the E VS2 above it. FYI, even those that prefer fluor sometimes do not like medium+ fluor in higher colored stones.

What does it mean when the flour is faint? I have always tried to look for none Fluorescence but I dont really know why.. would it be safer to go with none?

Do you think that it will make a big difference to go with a 0.6 or 0.63 ct stone?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
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In fact, if you don't buy it I think I'll buy it.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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I like this one based on the pictures. However I am a bit hesitant about the VS2 grading. I would have preferred VS1 just to be sure or am I just being paranoid? :)

Kind of sucks the GIA cert doesn't have a clarity plot attached. Looking at the video nothing crazy jumped off the screen as a concern. I'd say this stone is safe and definitely eye clean.

I do think you are being over paranoid. Remember stones are graded at 10x magnification. The images we see on the screen are magnified at 10x or more. The reality is this is a fairly small stone and you could probably dip down to an SI1 comfortably as long as you were careful when analyzing the inclusions.

When I did my search for you, I bumped to VS2+ clarity for the fact that about 98% of VS2 stones are eye clean. Yes, a few bad apples exist but they are outliers. Combine this with the fact you are using a drop shipper and don't really have a vetting process to field out good/bad SI1's and I think VS2 is a very safe clarity level that works well with your budget constraints and size aspirations. Especially for a 0.60ct stone. The smaller the stone the less surface area and smaller the inclusions. As a stone size increases, clarity becomes more critical as you have more surface area and body mass for your eyes to focus on and detect imperfections.

That said, there is always the picky person that either needs VS1+ clarity for mind clean purposes or they have Superman vision. Or possibly, they have cultural reasons as many Asians seek very high color and clarity and despite not being able to physically see a difference. I guess they carry their certs in their wallets and throw them down on the table for bragging rights. I'd punch my buddy in the face if I had to do that. But I'm not Asian either, lol.


What does it mean when the flour is faint? I have always tried to look for none Fluorescence but I dont really know why.. would it be safer to go with none?

Do you think that it will make a big difference to go with a 0.6 or 0.63 ct stone?

Fluor is a personal preference. I actually bought my fiancee a BGD Blue stone that is an H VS2 with medium blue fluor as graded by AGS. At the time I bought, it was for a few reasons. The stone offered better value over other competitors. I was on the fence between G/H color and was told that fluor can enhance color for a more white appearance. If you aren't aware BGD is a super ideal vendor and this stone was vetted so I was certain there was no transparency issues (milky or cloudy) that some stones exhibit. In reality, very few stones are negatively affected by fluor.

Since then I've learned considerably more. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a stone with medium levels or lower if it was blue (other colors do exist) and I was getting some cost savings out of the deal. If the fluor whitens the stone, it's marginal and not something I'd consider a full color grade so I wouldn't bank on that. The only time I've been able to detect fluor is when I whip out a black light and then that baby glows. That isn't a real issue for us.

I might add that the different labs have different designations as follows:
  • GIA = none, faint, medium, strong & very strong
  • AGS = negligible, faint, medium, strong & very strong
IMO, the AGS definition is more reasonable. There have been people on here who have GIA none stones that glow under black lights.

From what I've seen price wise, stones labeled as none/negligible/faint all trade for the same money. It's not until you hit medium+ levels you get a discount.

So why does all this matter to you? I wouldn't miss out on a great stone because it was graded as none, negligible or faint. I probably wouldn't even do it over medium but as you get higher in the color scale my personal preference is to see less.

I see no reason to reject this stone over a faint level of fluor.

Some web links & videos that are worthwhile:

89954-990x500-diamond-fluorescence.jpg


https://www.victorcanera.com/education/diamonds/fluorescence

https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/understanding-diamond-fluorescence/

https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/fact-checking-diamond-fluorescence-myths-dispelled/


 

cheche99

Rough_Rock
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Very good price for a G-VVS1:
https://www.bluenile.com/be/diamond-details/LD11109362
I would pick this one.


I actually like this one a lot! Do you know if it is possible to get a ASET or Idealscope on this?

Now I am jumping between 0.5 and 0.6 CT so I am torn between either this stone that you showed me or this CBI super ideal that is 0.52
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/9033/detail.htm

Should I go for a bigger size (BN 0.62) or for a ideal cut but smaller size (0.52)?
I imagine that you guys have seen a lot of diamonds so would you say that the quality of the two stones would differ a lot IRL?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
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Should I go for a bigger size (BN 0.62) or for a ideal cut but smaller size (0.52)?
I think they are both ideal cuts, the CBI being super ideal branded, this comes with a price and not sure if this possible difference in cut will be more visible than the color/clarity difference. With the CBI, you will have a GREAT upgrade policy (this is not negligible) and perfect ASET and hearts pictures. If you pay the CBI premium, you are assured to be able to upgrade easily without discussion, with Blue Nile you have to spend twice the amount. From what I can see of the 0.62 ct, the ASET should be very nice too and the diamond also should be AGS-0 with these angles and with the nice symmetry we can see on the Blue Nile video. And it's a GIA 3 EX with perfect angles and a 55% table. With Fortrez, you will have a nice shopping experience, with Blue Nile the experience should be nice too but online. I don't think Blue Nile sends ASET pictures, but you could see if another vendor has the same diamond in stock. Both diamonds have potential.
 

bmfang

Brilliant_Rock
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I actually like this one a lot! Do you know if it is possible to get a ASET or Idealscope on this?

Now I am jumping between 0.5 and 0.6 CT so I am torn between either this stone that you showed me or this CBI super ideal that is 0.52
http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/9033/detail.htm

Should I go for a bigger size (BN 0.62) or for a ideal cut but smaller size (0.52)?
I imagine that you guys have seen a lot of diamonds so would you say that the quality of the two stones would differ a lot IRL?

@cheche99 , the CBI diamond listed at Fortrez has images available for it at High Performance Diamonds (all CBI dealers have access to the same inventory).
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9033

Update: ahh, nice to see that fortrez has scope images available now. I don’t remember seeing that on their listings back in April ‘18.

As for the BN stone, also a pretty stone. Really depends if OP wishes to maximise size or wants to go super ideal.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Re-checking the Blue Nile diamond, the optical symmetry is not on par with the CBI.
The diamond is slightly tilted in the video, so it's really difficult without to judge without ASET, but something looks slightly off symmetry.
So if you want a super ideal cut, it's the CBI.
Is the difference visible with the naked eye, that's another question.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
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Really depends if OP wishes to maximise size or wants to go super ideal.
Size, color and clarity...
Is this for an engagement ring? Do you have a setting in mind?
 
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