Help choosing the stone

[MM888]

I am a newbie and have been reading the guidance on ideal proportions.
I am interested in 2 diamonds for ring. Appreciate your opinions and suggestions on how to choose a better diamond.
Would you put more weight on CA/PA or a better HCA score (1-2)?
Btw, the 2nd one is a little bigger seems a better deal but I don't know if the CA 35.5/PA 40.6 will work, plus the Depth is a little out of the range too.
Thank you!!

1.
Seems to have good proportions, with a HCA score of 0.7
Depth 61.5%
Table 56%
Crown angle 34.5 degree
Crown height 15%
Pavilion angle 40.6 degree
Pavilion Depth 42.5%
Star length 50%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle MST 4%
Cutlet None

2.
Proportions do not seem as good, but HCA score of 1.5 seems better
Depth 62.6%
Table 57%
Crown angle 35.5 degree
Crown height 15.5%
Pavilion angle 40.6 degree
Pavilion Depth 43%
Star length 55%
Lower Half 75%
Girdle MST 4%
Cutlet None

 

[Stephan]

Both diamonds have potential, but both have hidden weight in the girdle.

 

[Stephan]

But buying only by numbers is a dangerous game.

 

[crbl999]

I agree with @Stephan. I would not buy either without additional info due to GIA rounding. Request an Idealscope and/or ASET image to confirm light performance. Of the two, I prefer the proportions of the second stone. The depth may not be an issue and an IS or ASET will let us know for sure.

A HCA score of less than 2 is worth further consideration (requesting IS and/or ASET). A lower score is not better than a higher score; although a HCA score of 1-2 is often recommended for rings. I go by the images and not the HCA score.

 

[MM888]

Both diamonds have potential, but both have hidden weight in the girdle.

Thank you. Ya 4% girdle seems a little thick.

I am looking at the diamonds on Blue Nile/James Allen. Seems most of the diamonds don't have a light performance report, except for Astor by Blue Nile™ or True Hearts™ by JA. However, for the true hearts by JA, not sure why but most don't have GIA, only AGS certificate is available. Should that be a concern? I would prefer to have a GIA.

 

[Stephan]

It is not a concern, you can have your diamond checked by an appraiser and if color/clarity don't match with GIA standards you can send it back to the seller.

 

[MM888]

I agree with @Stephan. I would not buy either without additional info due to GIA rounding. Request an Idealscope and/or ASET image to confirm light performance. Of the two, I prefer the proportions of the second stone. The depth may not be an issue and an IS or ASET will let us know for sure.

A HCA score of less than 2 is worth further consideration (requesting IS and/or ASET). A lower score is not better than a higher score; although a HCA score of 1-2 is often recommended for rings. I go by the images and not the HCA score.

Thank you. I am looking at the diamonds on Blue Nile/James Allen. Seems most of the diamonds don't have a light performance report. I will see if I can request for one.

 

[Stephan]

Which light performance report? JA True Hearts come with AGS light performance report, Astor Blue Nile with GIA and Gemex brillance, fire and sparkle report.

 

[MM888]

Which light performance report? JA True Hearts come with AGS light performance report, Astor Blue Nile with GIA and Gemex brillance, fire and sparkle report.

The 2 diamonds I listed are not Astor Blue Nile so there's no light performance report readily available. I also looked at JA website, and True Hearts do have the AGS report, but most don't have a GIA, which as you mentioned should not be a concern. Thanks.

 

[Stephan]

Astor diamonds come with a premium, and an additional Gemex report.
Most JA diamonds are GIA certed, but the True Hearts are AGS certed.

 

[kmoro]

Astor diamonds come with a premium, and an additional Gemex report.
Most JA diamonds are GIA certed, but the True Hearts are AGS certed.

Actually many of the JA True Hearts are GIA that doesn’t show light performance but most of these have H&A images.

 

[Dancing Fire]

But buying only by numbers is a dangerous game.

Thus the reason why I only buy from in-house vendors.

 

[rockysalamander]

Do you want to share you budget and desired specs and we can post a few candidates?

On images, JA will usually provide up to 3 idealscope images per email from which the request is sent. JA TH is usually the same price at WF. I'd rather WF and get a super ideal and their exceptional customer service and quality. BN is fine, but I find that they flood the images with light and its harder to see what is really going on. They won't send IS or ASET for rounds.

 

[MM888]

Do you want to share you budget and desired specs and we can post a few candidates?

On images, JA will usually provide up to 3 idealscope images per email from which the request is sent. JA TH is usually the same price at WF. I'd rather WF and get a super ideal and their exceptional customer service and quality. BN is fine, but I find that they flood the images with light and its harder to see what is really going on. They won't send IS or ASET for rounds.

That's good to know. Budget is around 25k. E/F, VVS1/VVS2, 3Ex, No Fluorescence. Thank you.

 

[tyty333]

I didnt see any size spec so I'm assuming biggest you can get in your budget?

You are really high on the color/clarity specs...is this a must? Cultural reasons? If not G/VS level is usually plenty white in a Super Ideal cut
stone.
I'll post some Super Ideals (because they're easy to pick!) Not exactly in your specs though.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059365.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905126.htm

 

[MM888]

I didnt see any size spec so I'm assuming biggest you can get in your budget?

You are really high on the color/clarity specs...is this a must? Cultural reasons? If not G/VS level is usually plenty white in a Super Ideal cut
stone.
I'll post some Super Ideals (because they're easy to pick!) Not exactly in your specs though.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059365.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3905126.htm

The selection is based on some guidance I read about. What would be your suggested pick, if have to rank the 4Cs and other criteria? Thank you.

 

[sledge]

That's good to know. Budget is around 25k. E/F, VVS1/VVS2, 3Ex, No Fluorescence. Thank you.

The selection is based on some guidance I read about. What would be your suggested pick, if have to rank the 4Cs and other criteria? Thank you.

People say there are 4 C's when diamond shopping, but there are really 5. We all value the C's differently according to individual preferences. I happen to think this is a good way for many people.

1. Cut
IMO, this is the one C that you NEVER EVER sacrifice on. Simply stated, most GIA XXX isn't that excellent. You need to target ideal cut stones, and maybe even super ideal stones to ensure you get the most sparkle/fire possible. These parameters help you narrow the field:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer <62)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets, aka LGF (prefer closer to 75 for fatter arrows & bigger/bolder flashes)
• GIA XXX or AGS 000 certified
• Crown & pavilion angles must be complimentary (steep crown with shallow pavilion or vice versa, ie 35/40.6 or 34/40.9)

2. Color
Literally, this one is all about you and her. And it's all personal preference. Some like icy white. Others like a little color/tint. A lot of misinformed buyers assume if color isn't F+ then the stone will be "yellow". This simply isn't true. There are slight tints of color as evidenced below.

You might have noticed all these diamonds are flipped upside down. That is because color is graded, and consequently seen, from the side of the diamond. While you can see see variation in tint occurring I think it's rather obvious the are no "yellow" stones here.

And if you are looking at the top of the diamond, the color is even harder to see. As such, if you happen to pick a setting that covers a majority of the side of the diamond there is less chance any tint will be seen which allows you to buy a lower colored stone. On the flip side, if the setting exposes most the pavilion, then you may want to get a little higher color grade.

Another reason we push an ideal cut stone so hard is it effects other area like color. A very well cut stone of a lower color commonly looks more white than a poorly cut stone of a higher color.

3. Carat Weight
This could have easily been the #2 C as many people want size over color. I just happen to think people see color variance more easily than carat weight variance. Ideal cut, right color and good size and she's happy. But ideal cut, wrong color and slightly bigger size and she's never happy.

When looking at round diamonds, remember this formula:

length (L) x width (W) x depth (D) x 0.0061 = approximate carat weight​

Why the math lesson? Because it's important to understand that carat weight involves depth. When we look at a diamond, we see the top view which encompasses the L & W dimensions. The height, or depth, of diamond is only visible when viewing from the side.

It gets much more complicated when you start analyzing proportions. For instance, a "steep & deep" stone will typically have a very steep crown, pavilion and/or thick girdle. As such, the stone will appear small for it's carat weight because there is an overload of weight in the depth section of the diamond. Not to mention, when it's cut this way, it causes light leakage. You can cheat it the other way too and make the stone too shallow. The benefit here is the stone looks larger than a well cut stone of comparable carat weight because the weight is spread into the L&W dimensions and not the depth. But the same effect occurs, light leakage which means less sparkle/fire.

Knowing this allows us to understand that proportions of the diamond not only affects beauty but weight. Price is based on weight. As such, many times it's more profitable to sell a stone of higher weight and less beauty than a stone that is well cut and less weight.

Adding some fuel to the fire, society is consumed by "magic carat weights" such as 1 carat, 1.5 carat, etc. Something about having a stone that is truly 1.502 carats is better and more appealing than 1.465 carats, although if you look at the L&W dimensions you would understand there isn't enough size difference to make a visible difference to the naked eye. As such many cutters will maximize weight as it's more profitable (higher $ per carat) to sell a 1.502 carat stone VG/excellent stone than a 1.465 ideal cut stone. The loser is the consumer because of his/her own vanity to reach a magic carat weight.

You may be curious what makes a noticeable size difference. I'm going to ignore carat weight and talk dimensions. Like color, it depends on the human but generally speaking it takes about 0.20mm difference to be noticeable. That is about 1/128th of an inch. This isn't a mind blowing difference but rather a minimal difference that if you held the stones side by side you could discern a size difference. If you saw the stones at different times and blindly (so you weren't aware to preform opinion on carat weight) it would be unlikely you'd see a difference.

Another factor that comes into play is her finger size. A 1 carat stone on a size 3 finger looks much larger than a 1 carat on a size 7 finger. Not to mention, depending on her preferences and your social circles, a certain size may be frowned upon.

All this gets me back to the point of I think carat weight is a poor metric for buying a stone, but it's a necessary evil as that's how diamonds are priced. I'd just encourage you to look at cut quality first and then compare dimensions and not get caught up in the, "my is bigger than yours" game.

4. Clarity
The first thing to understand is there is eye clean and mind clean stones. The first is much easier to find and is generally defined as 10" away looking at the top of the stone with 20/20 vision in good lighting. No universal answer has been defined for eye clean, so it's always important to understand and establish your own definition of eye clean and communicate that to whatever vendor you choose to buy from.

Generally speaking there are many SI1 stones that are eye clean. When working with vendors that vet stones and keep them in-house I have less issues considering one of those for purchase. In those cases, you may even be able to get away with an SI2 stone, although that really requires some good analysis as the majority of SI2 stones are not eye clean.

When working with a drop shipper like BN, JA, etc I prefer to bump clarity to VS2 as a way of minimizing risk. Without doubt, there are still some good SI1's to be had from those retailers, but it's a personal comfort level for me. That said, I help people source SI1's all the time and it's possible.

Also, you have to consider stone size. When looking at a 0.5 carat stone, clarity will be less critical than when looking at 2 carat stones as there is more surface area and the inclusions will be larger.

You also need to understand magnification. Stones are graded using 10x magnification. We obviously do not see at 10x levels with the naked eye and need a loupe or scope to assist us see at those levels. Most of the vendors provide images/videos of stones at 10x or greater magnification, so inclusions can actually look worse online than IRL.

In conclusion, I'd consider very clean SI1's but have a preference for VS2+.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot mind clean. This is the annoying phenomena where your eyes cannot see inclusions on the actual diamond but your brain freaks out because the GIA/AGS cert isn't nice & clean.

5. Cost
I've listed this last but in all honesty, it drives all the other C's. Diamonds are a zero sum game, meaning if you have a fixed cost/budget then you have to adjust the other C's up or down based on your preferences and what's available to meet your budget constraints.

My own 2 cents is I think you should establish a desired price and a must not exceed price. Remember, you will have to buy a stone and setting, so you will need to appropriate so much money for the stone and keep some reserves for the setting.

For instance:

• Max, not to exceed, budget = $25k
• Setting allowance = $3k
• Max diamond budget = $22k
• Desired diamond budget = $20k
• Contingency budget = 10% of stone value, or $2k

 

[beardog]

People say there are 4 C's when diamond shopping, but there are really 5. We all value the C's differently according to individual preferences. I happen to think this is a good way for many people.

1. Cut
IMO, this is the one C that you NEVER EVER sacrifice on. Simply stated, most GIA XXX isn't that excellent. You need to target ideal cut stones, and maybe even super ideal stones to ensure you get the most sparkle/fire possible. These parameters help you narrow the field:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer <62)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets, aka LGF (prefer closer to 75 for fatter arrows & bigger/bolder flashes)
• GIA XXX or AGS 000 certified
• Crown & pavilion angles must be complimentary (steep crown with shallow pavilion or vice versa, ie 35/40.6 or 34/40.9)

2. Color
Literally, this one is all about you and her. And it's all personal preference. Some like icy white. Others like a little color/tint. A lot of misinformed buyers assume if color isn't F+ then the stone will be "yellow". This simply isn't true. There are slight tints of color as evidenced below.

You might have noticed all these diamonds are flipped upside down. That is because color is graded, and consequently seen, from the side of the diamond. While you can see see variation in tint occurring I think it's rather obvious the are no "yellow" stones here.

And if you are looking at the top of the diamond, the color is even harder to see. As such, if you happen to pick a setting that covers a majority of the side of the diamond there is less chance any tint will be seen which allows you to buy a lower colored stone. On the flip side, if the setting exposes most the pavilion, then you may want to get a little higher color grade.

Another reason we push an ideal cut stone so hard is it effects other area like color. A very well cut stone of a lower color commonly looks more white than a poorly cut stone of a higher color.

3. Carat Weight
This could have easily been the #2 C as many people want size over color. I just happen to think people see color variance more easily than carat weight variance. Ideal cut, right color and good size and she's happy. But ideal cut, wrong color and slightly bigger size and she's never happy.

When looking at round diamonds, remember this formula:

length (L) x width (W) x depth (D) x 0.0061 = approximate carat weight​

Why the math lesson? Because it's important to understand that carat weight involves depth. When we look at a diamond, we see the top view which encompasses the L & W dimensions. The height, or depth, of diamond is only visible when viewing from the side.

It gets much more complicated when you start analyzing proportions. For instance, a "steep & deep" stone will typically have a very steep crown, pavilion and/or thick girdle. As such, the stone will appear small for it's carat weight because there is an overload of weight in the depth section of the diamond. Not to mention, when it's cut this way, it causes light leakage. You can cheat it the other way too and make the stone too shallow. The benefit here is the stone looks larger than a well cut stone of comparable carat weight because the weight is spread into the L&W dimensions and not the depth. But the same effect occurs, light leakage which means less sparkle/fire.

Knowing this allows us to understand that proportions of the diamond not only affects beauty but weight. Price is based on weight. As such, many times it's more profitable to sell a stone of higher weight and less beauty than a stone that is well cut and less weight.

Adding some fuel to the fire, society is consumed by "magic carat weights" such as 1 carat, 1.5 carat, etc. Something about having a stone that is truly 1.502 carats is better and more appealing than 1.465 carats, although if you look at the L&W dimensions you would understand there isn't enough size difference to make a visible difference to the naked eye. As such many cutters will maximize weight as it's more profitable (higher $ per carat) to sell a 1.502 carat stone VG/excellent stone than a 1.465 ideal cut stone. The loser is the consumer because of his/her own vanity to reach a magic carat weight.

You may be curious what makes a noticeable size difference. I'm going to ignore carat weight and talk dimensions. Like color, it depends on the human but generally speaking it takes about 0.20mm difference to be noticeable. That is about 1/128th of an inch. This isn't a mind blowing difference but rather a minimal difference that if you held the stones side by side you could discern a size difference. If you saw the stones at different times and blindly (so you weren't aware to preform opinion on carat weight) it would be unlikely you'd see a difference.

Another factor that comes into play is her finger size. A 1 carat stone on a size 3 finger looks much larger than a 1 carat on a size 7 finger. Not to mention, depending on her preferences and your social circles, a certain size may be frowned upon.

All this gets me back to the point of I think carat weight is a poor metric for buying a stone, but it's a necessary evil as that's how diamonds are priced. I'd just encourage you to look at cut quality first and then compare dimensions and not get caught up in the, "my is bigger than yours" game.

4. Clarity
The first thing to understand is there is eye clean and mind clean stones. The first is much easier to find and is generally defined as 10" away looking at the top of the stone with 20/20 vision in good lighting. No universal answer has been defined for eye clean, so it's always important to understand and establish your own definition of eye clean and communicate that to whatever vendor you choose to buy from.

Generally speaking there are many SI1 stones that are eye clean. When working with vendors that vet stones and keep them in-house I have less issues considering one of those for purchase. In those cases, you may even be able to get away with an SI2 stone, although that really requires some good analysis as the majority of SI2 stones are not eye clean.

When working with a drop shipper like BN, JA, etc I prefer to bump clarity to VS2 as a way of minimizing risk. Without doubt, there are still some good SI1's to be had from those retailers, but it's a personal comfort level for me. That said, I help people source SI1's all the time and it's possible.

Also, you have to consider stone size. When looking at a 0.5 carat stone, clarity will be less critical than when looking at 2 carat stones as there is more surface area and the inclusions will be larger.

You also need to understand magnification. Stones are graded using 10x magnification. We obviously do not see at 10x levels with the naked eye and need a loupe or scope to assist us see at those levels. Most of the vendors provide images/videos of stones at 10x or greater magnification, so inclusions can actually look worse online than IRL.

In conclusion, I'd consider very clean SI1's but have a preference for VS2+.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot mind clean. This is the annoying phenomena where your eyes cannot see inclusions on the actual diamond but your brain freaks out because the GIA/AGS cert isn't nice & clean.

5. Cost
I've listed this last but in all honesty, it drives all the other C's. Diamonds are a zero sum game, meaning if you have a fixed cost/budget then you have to adjust the other C's up or down based on your preferences and what's available to meet your budget constraints.

My own 2 cents is I think you should establish a desired price and a must not exceed price. Remember, you will have to buy a stone and setting, so you will need to appropriate so much money for the stone and keep some reserves for the setting.

For instance:

• Max, not to exceed, budget = $25k
• Setting allowance = $3k
• Max diamond budget = $22k
• Desired diamond budget = $20k
• Contingency budget = 10% of stone value, or $2k

Awesome brother.. Where do you find the time

 

[MM888]

People say there are 4 C's when diamond shopping, but there are really 5. We all value the C's differently according to individual preferences. I happen to think this is a good way for many people.

1. Cut
IMO, this is the one C that you NEVER EVER sacrifice on. Simply stated, most GIA XXX isn't that excellent. You need to target ideal cut stones, and maybe even super ideal stones to ensure you get the most sparkle/fire possible. These parameters help you narrow the field:

• 54-57 table
• 60-62.4 depth (prefer <62)
• 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pavilion)
• 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41 with 34 crown)
• 75-80 lower girdle facets, aka LGF (prefer closer to 75 for fatter arrows & bigger/bolder flashes)
• GIA XXX or AGS 000 certified
• Crown & pavilion angles must be complimentary (steep crown with shallow pavilion or vice versa, ie 35/40.6 or 34/40.9)

2. Color
Literally, this one is all about you and her. And it's all personal preference. Some like icy white. Others like a little color/tint. A lot of misinformed buyers assume if color isn't F+ then the stone will be "yellow". This simply isn't true. There are slight tints of color as evidenced below.

You might have noticed all these diamonds are flipped upside down. That is because color is graded, and consequently seen, from the side of the diamond. While you can see see variation in tint occurring I think it's rather obvious the are no "yellow" stones here.

And if you are looking at the top of the diamond, the color is even harder to see. As such, if you happen to pick a setting that covers a majority of the side of the diamond there is less chance any tint will be seen which allows you to buy a lower colored stone. On the flip side, if the setting exposes most the pavilion, then you may want to get a little higher color grade.

Another reason we push an ideal cut stone so hard is it effects other area like color. A very well cut stone of a lower color commonly looks more white than a poorly cut stone of a higher color.

3. Carat Weight
This could have easily been the #2 C as many people want size over color. I just happen to think people see color variance more easily than carat weight variance. Ideal cut, right color and good size and she's happy. But ideal cut, wrong color and slightly bigger size and she's never happy.

When looking at round diamonds, remember this formula:

length (L) x width (W) x depth (D) x 0.0061 = approximate carat weight​

Why the math lesson? Because it's important to understand that carat weight involves depth. When we look at a diamond, we see the top view which encompasses the L & W dimensions. The height, or depth, of diamond is only visible when viewing from the side.

It gets much more complicated when you start analyzing proportions. For instance, a "steep & deep" stone will typically have a very steep crown, pavilion and/or thick girdle. As such, the stone will appear small for it's carat weight because there is an overload of weight in the depth section of the diamond. Not to mention, when it's cut this way, it causes light leakage. You can cheat it the other way too and make the stone too shallow. The benefit here is the stone looks larger than a well cut stone of comparable carat weight because the weight is spread into the L&W dimensions and not the depth. But the same effect occurs, light leakage which means less sparkle/fire.

Knowing this allows us to understand that proportions of the diamond not only affects beauty but weight. Price is based on weight. As such, many times it's more profitable to sell a stone of higher weight and less beauty than a stone that is well cut and less weight.

Adding some fuel to the fire, society is consumed by "magic carat weights" such as 1 carat, 1.5 carat, etc. Something about having a stone that is truly 1.502 carats is better and more appealing than 1.465 carats, although if you look at the L&W dimensions you would understand there isn't enough size difference to make a visible difference to the naked eye. As such many cutters will maximize weight as it's more profitable (higher $ per carat) to sell a 1.502 carat stone VG/excellent stone than a 1.465 ideal cut stone. The loser is the consumer because of his/her own vanity to reach a magic carat weight.

You may be curious what makes a noticeable size difference. I'm going to ignore carat weight and talk dimensions. Like color, it depends on the human but generally speaking it takes about 0.20mm difference to be noticeable. That is about 1/128th of an inch. This isn't a mind blowing difference but rather a minimal difference that if you held the stones side by side you could discern a size difference. If you saw the stones at different times and blindly (so you weren't aware to preform opinion on carat weight) it would be unlikely you'd see a difference.

Another factor that comes into play is her finger size. A 1 carat stone on a size 3 finger looks much larger than a 1 carat on a size 7 finger. Not to mention, depending on her preferences and your social circles, a certain size may be frowned upon.

All this gets me back to the point of I think carat weight is a poor metric for buying a stone, but it's a necessary evil as that's how diamonds are priced. I'd just encourage you to look at cut quality first and then compare dimensions and not get caught up in the, "my is bigger than yours" game.

4. Clarity
The first thing to understand is there is eye clean and mind clean stones. The first is much easier to find and is generally defined as 10" away looking at the top of the stone with 20/20 vision in good lighting. No universal answer has been defined for eye clean, so it's always important to understand and establish your own definition of eye clean and communicate that to whatever vendor you choose to buy from.

Generally speaking there are many SI1 stones that are eye clean. When working with vendors that vet stones and keep them in-house I have less issues considering one of those for purchase. In those cases, you may even be able to get away with an SI2 stone, although that really requires some good analysis as the majority of SI2 stones are not eye clean.

When working with a drop shipper like BN, JA, etc I prefer to bump clarity to VS2 as a way of minimizing risk. Without doubt, there are still some good SI1's to be had from those retailers, but it's a personal comfort level for me. That said, I help people source SI1's all the time and it's possible.

Also, you have to consider stone size. When looking at a 0.5 carat stone, clarity will be less critical than when looking at 2 carat stones as there is more surface area and the inclusions will be larger.

You also need to understand magnification. Stones are graded using 10x magnification. We obviously do not see at 10x levels with the naked eye and need a loupe or scope to assist us see at those levels. Most of the vendors provide images/videos of stones at 10x or greater magnification, so inclusions can actually look worse online than IRL.

In conclusion, I'd consider very clean SI1's but have a preference for VS2+.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot mind clean. This is the annoying phenomena where your eyes cannot see inclusions on the actual diamond but your brain freaks out because the GIA/AGS cert isn't nice & clean.

5. Cost
I've listed this last but in all honesty, it drives all the other C's. Diamonds are a zero sum game, meaning if you have a fixed cost/budget then you have to adjust the other C's up or down based on your preferences and what's available to meet your budget constraints.

My own 2 cents is I think you should establish a desired price and a must not exceed price. Remember, you will have to buy a stone and setting, so you will need to appropriate so much money for the stone and keep some reserves for the setting.

For instance:

• Max, not to exceed, budget = $25k
• Setting allowance = $3k
• Max diamond budget = $22k
• Desired diamond budget = $20k
• Contingency budget = 10% of stone value, or $2k

Thank you so much. This is very informative!!! As you mentioned, crown and pavilion angles have to be complimentary, do you think the #2 stone (CA 35.5 & PA 40.6) would work? Depth of 62.6 is out the range you suggested.
Also, can you please share your thoughts on fluorescence? Some say faint to none is okay, while others say have to be none. Thank you!

 

[sledge]

Thank you so much. This is very informative!!! As you mentioned, crown and pavilion angles have to be complimentary, do you think the #2 stone (CA 35.5 & PA 40.6) would work? Depth of 62.6 is out the range you suggested.
Also, can you please share your thoughts on fluorescence? Some say faint to none is okay, while others say have to be none. Thank you!

I am glad you found the information useful.

I do think the 35.5/40.6 could work, even with a 62.6 depth. The problem is we have no additional data to go upon and that is the dangerous game that others mentioned. You have to understand that although GIA is a very well respected & trusted lab, they utilize a process where they take all the values and average them and then round those values into a single value that you see on the report.

Let this sink in a minute. Now pretend you are drilling a hole in concrete to place a pipe. The pipe has an average outside diameter between 18" to 22". Now let's pretend we take readings from 8 locations and get the following results:

18.25, 17.95, 18.75, 19.5, 21.25, 22, 20.75, 20.25

The average value is 19.8375 and we are now going to round to the nearest 1" so we arrive at a final result of 20". Now pretend that the manufacturer of the pipe does not share this detailed information and only gives you a summary report that shows an OD of 20" because of the way they round & average the values.

You may come to the conclusion that buying a 21" drill bit will be the proper size to hit a 20" hole required for the pipe plus give you about 1/2" play room on each side for imperfections and workability.

Given the fact that we have 3 values greater than 21" you will encounter a problem when trying to install the pipe as the OD of the pipe will be larger than the hold you drilled.

Similar things are happening with the diamond you are asking about. There are 8 crown angle values that have been averaged and rounded to the nearest 0.5 degrees. There are 8 pavilion angle values that have been averaged and rounded to the nearest 0.2 degrees. Not to mention overall depth is rounded to the nearest 0.1% and pavilion & crown depths are rounded to the nearest 0.5%.

https://www.gia.edu/diamond-cut/diamond-cut-anatomy-round-brilliant

You have to understand that each proportion has direct relation with another proportion. What may be initially perceived as small differences can have large impacts. Here is a more in-depth post that explains this more fully.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...visory-gia-cut-grade-rounding-problems.39401/

So this gets me back to where I started, yes, diamond #2 could work. I emphasize could as we have no additional data to analyze. For instance, painting or digging could have a big negative effect.

Also, using GIA Facetware, they are projecting a 15.3 crown height, 42.6 pavilion depth and 62% overall depth using the other cert values you listed. Which is a contradiction to the cert values for each respective proportion.

Prior to moving forward I'd want to see advanced images such as idealscope or ASET to confirm light performance. Also, I'd like to see hearts & arrow (H&A) images to confirm symmetry. I doubt you will get these images but you can request them.

 

[sledge]

Also, can you please share your thoughts on fluorescence? Some say faint to none is okay, while others say have to be none. Thank you!

Sorry, I failed to answer this part on my last response.

Fluorescence is a personal preference. It gets a bad rep because in extreme cases it can create a milky or hazy appearance. The reality is that affects a very tiny amount of stones -- GIA reports about 0.2% of all stones have this negative effect.

https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/understanding-diamond-fluorescence/

In rare cases, some diamonds with extremely strong fluorescence may appear hazy or oily; fewer than 0.2% of the fluorescent diamonds submitted to GIA exhibit this effect.

About 95% of stones with fluor exhibit blue fluor. Other colors can and do exist, but they are rare. In higher colored stones, many believe blue fluor offsets some of the yellow tones and helps whiten the stone. In the stones I have seen, I would say any color enhancements from fluor is minimal and a bonus that I would not count on.

Additionally while many prefer fluor in lower colored stones, the opposite seems to be true in higher colored stones such as D/E/F.

Generally speaking, it seems most stones labeled as none/faint/negligible trade at about the same dollar. Those with medium+ intensity levels trade for discounted amounts.

Here are my views on the matter:

• I would have no issues buying none, faint or negligible.
• I would have no issues buying medium if the stone was appropriately discounted.
• I may consider buying strong or very strong depending on the color of the stone, discount amount and what other options I may or may not have available.
• If two identical stones existed, one with none and one with faint and the price was identical (which I'd expect) I'd prefer none. The reality is there will be a difference of some magnitude and I'd let that characteristic (smaller table, fatter arrows, etc) take precedence as I really see none, faint and negligible as all perfectly acceptable to me.
• In all cases, I'd confirm the stone doesn't have a milky, hazy or oily appearance. I know GIA says 0.2% but it would be part of my due diligence to check the stone.

For the record, I bought my bought my fiancee a BGD Blue stone, H VS2 with MBF. I see no negative effects whatsoever. The stone was cheaper as a result. If the stone is whiter as a result, it's very minimal and non detectable to other H's I've compared against.