My Bizarre Diamond help please

[bmfang]

Somehow methinks that OP is trying to do whatever she thinks to try and justify what her fiancé paid for this stone. This is notwithstanding a lot of experienced folks (trade and prosumers) on PS chiming in on this thread and explaining their views on this stone being clarity enhanced (which does line up with the IGL report). Say what you will about IGL, but at least they were honest enough to say it was clarity enhanced. Gawd only knows what another lab like EGL-Israel would have said about this stone.

The appraiser she has used also seems to have a limited understanding of these types of stones, which seems incongruent with her saying that she’s looked at diamonds for a long time (I think I saw a time period of over 30 years mentioned earlier in the thread). This would be even more remarkable if the appraiser is in the UK and has been trained by Gem-A. Though it’s entirely possible they have been trained an aeon ago and hasn’t bothered to keep abreast of new information within the industry.

I’m in agreement with @Rockdiamond that spending more money on sending it to GIA for a report is like pouring more money down into a black hole for little reward at the end.

 

[Bambamsmam]

Ah i am not justifying or going against anyone, i just dont know enough myself hence why I have came here for advice and knowledge.. i appreciate what everyone has said and feel like he has been ripped off right now which isnt a nice feeling so obviously hold a little hope but looking at pictures i have included here (taken through a 30x magnification i bought today) it very much appears to look as you have all described

 

[Bambamsmam]

 

[lovedogs]

Yup, that's 1000000% "filling". Sorry But please don't waste money or time sending to GIA. Just wear it and enjoy it (if you can). Or hopefully try to get a refund because the vendor was dishonest with your fiance.

 

[bmfang]

@Bambamsmam, what consumer protections are available to your fiancé? I think I read you are in the UK. Does the UK have something similar to what we have here in australia (conveniently named Australian Consumer Law)?

 

[Bambamsmam]

Ahh i have no idea, i have put all of this information forward but he said he cant return as he bought the diamond seperate to the ring and had it moumted himself so cant be returned now!

 

[AV_]

I would agree that a GIA report is not warranted.

 

[Wewechew]

Enjoy your ring and upgrade at a later date if you so choose

 

[LemonMoonLex]

Is this your engagement ring?
If So, I understand the confusion and apprehension towards coming to terms with the quality and value of the diamond.

Sometimes we think were searching for the truth but in the end its not what we want to hear.
I understand, and hope you can still find some peace with the gemstone even with this new information.
If you like it, which in the beginning it sounds like you did, wear it!
Things Also hold value that are sentimental.
Wish you the best!

 

[bmfang]

Enjoy your ring and upgrade at a later date if you so choose

I hope after all of the above, OP probably will have gotten the message that a clarity enhanced stone will not have much value on resale or upgrade time. Here’s to hoping that when it comes time to upgrade, she’ll be able to get something better.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

That pinkish flash in your new photos is a classic trait of a clarity enhanced diamond, making them relatively easy to identify. You will rarely see anything like that in an untreated diamond.
Here is a pretty good magnified photo of the effect:

 

[kmoro]

Ahh i have no idea, i have put all of this information forward but he said he cant return as he bought the diamond seperate to the ring and had it moumted himself so cant be returned now!

I don’t like it when people give up before trying, lol.

He can have the diamond un-mounted, and I dare say that if the diamond was misrepresented, he may still be able to return it.

Maybe offer it to the gemologist that said she was considering buying it herself? (Sorry I had to get that in there)

If all else fails, the sentimental value really is huge, and I hope you enjoy it anyway ... it’s still a sparkly diamond!

And in the grand scheme of things, a 1000£ lesson is not that bad. Could have been a lot worse and money comes and goes. Love is what matters.

 

[Rockdiamond]

This thread brings up another frequent point of confusion.
With a lot of exposure to the excellent advice of @denverappraiser and @oldminer it's easy to forget that simply because someone calls themselves a "Gemologist" does not mean that know what they are doing.
Imagine walking into a doctors office and telling them
" I have a fever, runny nose and a cough"
The doctor responds- "wow in 30 years of practice, I've never heard of these symptoms"
Even accredited gemologists may not have the knowledge needed to truly offer meaningful advice to clients. And I don't know that there are any laws requiring any sort of degree to call oneself a gemologist.

 

[kmoro]

This thread brings up another frequent point of confusion.
With a lot of exposure to the excellent advice of @denverappraiser and @oldminer it's easy to forget that simply because someone calls themselves a "Gemologist" does not mean that know what they are doing.
Imagine walking into a doctors office and telling them
" I have a fever, runny nose and a cough"
The doctor responds- "wow in 30 years of practice, I've never heard of these symptoms"
Even accredited gemologists may not have the knowledge needed to truly offer meaningful advice to clients. And I don't know that there are any laws requiring any sort of degree to call oneself a gemologist.

This is a great point. Right away, I thought of an acquaintance that refers to himself, among other things, a horticulturist, a “master taper” (no such thing), and heavy duty mechanic ... has only internet knowledge. I suppose I could call myself a gemologist too ... or a diamond expert ... or a goat, lol ... if I was aiming to mislead .... or maybe honestly had no understanding of education or species and really believed my self-labelling was correct?
No laws governing what labels to use, so even more important to remember “buyer beware.” So important for a buyer to be as informed as possible. Knowledge is power!

 

[denverappraiser]

A brief story.

As an appraiser, I occasionally butt heads with other experts in court. At one point I needed to evaluate a report written by a ‘licensed appraiser’. Although this works for real estate people, there is no license required or even available to jewelry appraisers in any state I’m aware of, so I challenged the credential. What license? After a bit of hemming and hawing, the explanation was that he had a driver’s license.

 

[rockysalamander]

I'm in agreement with other PSers on this, but one thing to note is that it is possible that some of the grey is actually the stone's body color (diamonds come in yellow, brown and grey body color, in order of frequency). The photos don't help, but it would be nice if something in the report was accurate

Edited to add that I'm honestly shocked that this was not clear to anyone in the business. There is no doubt what you are looking at when you see that color and pattern under magnification. Even with simple lights and no filters. I had the unpleasant task of informing a co-worker that her stone was enhanced. Her fiance had been totally lied to and the treatment was not disclosed. With some high-resolution photos taken on my work dissection scope, she was able to prove the swindle. Bad news for the swindler...her fiance was a federal marshall. They refunded the cost of the ring and I helped them find a lovely old cut in a restored antique setting...they wanted something different to look and feel different than the first ring. A "clean" palette.

 

[Matilda]

so there is a national jewellers association:

https://www.naj.co.uk

First I would find out if the vendor is a member. Regardless of whether they are or not you can file a complaint.

https://www.naj.co.uk/complaints

go directly to NAJ for a member and for non member scroll down, go through local trading standards

https://www.naj.co.uk/consumer/help-and-advice/frequently-asked-questions

Personally, I would go and DEMAND a refund for breach of trust. Return period is not valid if the item was sold as a different item and if it was sold with faults that were unknown to the customer.

I would keep this exchange documented to show to the NAJ.

@kmoro I agree please try! you have nothing to lose, and you are in the right

 

[Matilda]

and if you want to skim read page 1 and 3 :

https://www.responsiblejewellery.com/files/Product-Disclosure-RJC-Guidance-draftv1.pdf

 

[rockysalamander]

The cert from IGL says it is clarity enhanced. The seller gave the buyer the cert. The buyer may not have known the imporance or meaning of thst, but it was disclosed. Where is the breach in trust? Maybe I did not read the thread carefully enough...

 

[Matilda]

I could be totally wrong here and just confused. The reason I believed it was untrustworthy was because he sold it to them as "natural fancy silver", that is false, as is the vendor's claim it is rare/special. The certificate was given but no information on the certificate was given by the vendor. The vendor must have withheld information about the side effects of clarity enhancement .....vendor did not disclose "rainbow colours" on the inside of the diamond.

 

[Matilda]

Ooh that was an interesting read and cant be ruled out but the gemologist who I spoke with today did look for signs of the above and could not see anything, it was something she immediately suspected before inspection...

This reaction was another reason I thought perhaps the customer did not realise it was clarity enhanced

 

[Texas Leaguer]

The cert from IGL says it is clarity enhanced. The seller gave the buyer the cert. The buyer may not have known the imporance or meaning of thst, but it was disclosed. Where is the breach in trust? Maybe I did not read the thread carefully enough...

I would contend the 'cert' itself is misleading. It prominently states "Natural Fancy Silver". Then tucked down under comments and almost imbedded in the statement about "IDEAL CUT" it mentions Clarity Enhanced.

It would be much more likely that a consumer would think this referred to some positive aspect of the cut quality than understand that the diamond has cracks that have been filled with a foreign substance!

And technically speaking, if the filler imparts color to the diamond (which it obviously does), it is again misleading to report the color to be "natural'.

And don't even get me started on ethics of labeling a diamond 'IDEAL CUT" in all caps, when the report itself grades the overall cut grade to be only Very Good.

I'd be interested to hear the opinion of our legal eagle @MollyMalone on this matter.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

I would contend the 'cert' itself is misleading. It prominently states "Natural Fancy Silver". Then tucked down under comments and almost imbedded in the statement about "IDEAL CUT" it mentions Clarity Enhanced.

It would be much more likely that a consumer would think this referred to some positive aspect of the cut quality than understand that the diamond has cracks that have been filled with a foreign substance!

And technically speaking, if the filler imparts color to the diamond (which it obviously does), it is again misleading to report the color to be "natural'.

And don't even get me started on ethics of labeling a diamond 'IDEAL CUT" in all caps, when the report itself grades the overall cut grade to be only Very Good.

I'd be interested to hear the opinion of our legal eagle @MollyMalone on this matter.

I feel like you hit the nail on the head on why the diamond could be considered misleading/misrepresented.

The "report" looks super misleading.
There's all of these sparkly words, that I assume was used to hide the true quality of the diamond. Sadly its more than effective to unsuspecting buyers.

I'm also truly truly interested to hear the legal aspect of this.

& Op whether you decide to try and return the diamond or love it and enjoy it I'm sure youre learning lots. As am I and everyone else about the intricacies of what's morally obliged vs. Legally obliged/accepted.

 

[rockysalamander]

I would contend the 'cert' itself is misleading. It prominently states "Natural Fancy Silver". Then tucked down under comments and almost imbedded in the statement about "IDEAL CUT" it mentions Clarity Enhanced.

It would be much more likely that a consumer would think this referred to some positive aspect of the cut quality than understand that the diamond has cracks that have been filled with a foreign substance!

And technically speaking, if the filler imparts color to the diamond (which it obviously does), it is again misleading to report the color to be "natural'.

And don't even get me started on ethics of labeling a diamond 'IDEAL CUT" in all caps, when the report itself grades the overall cut grade to be only Very Good.

I'd be interested to hear the opinion of our legal eagle @MollyMalone on this matter.

I agree. I was not suggesting the cert was not misleading or unclear. Its a disgrace.

My issue was to go from the certification (which was given to the buyer) and claiming the seller was misleading the buyer. Provided all the sellers' statements were kept within the boundaries of the certification from IGL relative to this stone and their actual knowledge, I see no mileading of a consumer. They could simply claim that they disclosed the certification and "relied" on it for statements about the stone. Is it right or ethical? Does it do a disservice to the consumer and industry? Those are different questions to me. Such interesting facts to ponder.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I agree. I was not suggesting the cert was not misleading or unclear. Its a disgrace.

My issue was to go from the certification (which was given to the buyer) and claiming the seller was misleading the buyer. Provided all the sellers' statements were kept within the boundaries of the certification from IGL relative to this stone and their actual knowledge, I see no mileading of a consumer. They could simply claim that they disclosed the certification and "relied" on it for statements about the stone. Is it right or ethical? Does it do a disservice to the consumer and industry? Those are different questions to me. Such interesting facts to ponder.

I agree that the degree to which the customer was actually deceived depends as much on the discussion the jeweler had with the customer concerning the report at the time of the purchase.

The case does highlight the fact that not all gemological laboratories are created equal!

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think returnability based on false advertising/etc. will also largely depend on what country the OP/buyer is in (where the transaction took place) as some countries have better/worse protections for buyers than others.

It’s kinda hard to believe people still get fooled on things like this in this day & age because there is SO.MUCH.INFORMATION available to consumers on the internet so they can choose to make informed buying decisions, even on-the-spot. I’ve been in stores of all types where I’ve seen something I might buy or was told something by a sales person, and I have stopped to look up/verify the information, price, details, reviews, etc. on things ... not because I don’t necessarily trust others but because I value my hard-earned money and want to ensure I’m spending it intelligently where large purchases are involved (and because I hate dealing with returns). Someone who is dealing fairly/honestly won’t mind you doing so because they value their reputation and want buyers to feel good about what they are getting.

 

[Bambamsmam]

Hi all, I am in the UK. I dont know exactly what info was given as I havnt really discussed this conversation with my other half as dont want to really sound ungrateful or upset him.. it is what it is i guess at the ens of the day, everything happens for a reason eh! i dont think from what i have discussed that the seller was exactly misleading, i believe he has sold based on information on certification meaning it would be down to incorrect information by IGL if anything (whom I have emailed and had no response as of yet!? I am also conflicted now looking at the information which states ideal cut, round brilliant and also very good.. also by it saying 100% natural conflict free diamond but having those words clarity enhanced on there as well!? It is also stated to be SI1 but i can see inclusions without a microscope. I believe it is a grey stone which is described as silver as it is noticeably greyed in comparison to others and quite pretty for it but aside from that i just wish i had someone near me who could have a good look in real life that knows what they are looking at

 

[mrs-b]

A brief story.

As an appraiser, I occasionally butt heads with other experts in court. At one point I needed to evaluate a report written by a ‘licensed appraiser’. Although this works for real estate people, there is no license required or even available to jewelry appraisers in any state I’m aware of, so I challenged the credential. What license? After a bit of hemming and hawing, the explanation was that he had a driver’s license.

Best. Story. EVER.

 

[Rockdiamond]

From my perspective: A seller has a responsibility to know what they are selling. Based on the evidence at hand, there's little doubt what you have in your hands- a filled diamond.
When diamonds are filled they become impossible to accurately grade.
Any and all the other info on the "cert" is meaningless. That includes any sort of comment on the quality of cut.
If you're unable to return it, enjoy it!!

 

[Bambamsmam]

Best. Story. EVER.

Well today I did a little research on the lady I spoke to and it turns out she did several years training with a very high end jewellers in London, UK and also studied 5 years degree level in jewelry and gemology so I am again lost in what to think! Afterall, she saw it with her real life eyeballs and under magnification