HELP! Tell me about this 3.56c Asscher with Table 73% (9.31mm) -KarlK, DiamondSeeker anyone? Thanks!

[Matthews1127]

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamonds/id/3592485

Does it work, now?
Great catch, @Snowdrop13!!!

 

[Matthews1127]

This is a generated calculation comparison between the GIA 3.56ct Asscher and GOG’s AGS 3.42ct Asscher:
https://www.diamdb.com/compare/3.42ct-asscher-8.22x8.19x5.6-vs-3.56ct-asscher-9.31x8.98x5.34/

Now, fancy cuts are not ALL about the numbers, BUT, you need to see the GOG Asscher and compare it to the one you posted. I’ll bet money I don’t have that it’s brighter, and performs better than the 3.56ct. Granted, the spread is smaller, but you’re getting better quality in the GOG diamond, based upon this comparison, alone.
From the video, it seems to out shine the one you posted, it has a more appealing clarity plot, and it’s around the same price.
Size isn’t everything, when it comes to diamonds.

 

[Snowdrop13]

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamonds/id/3592485

Does it work, now?
Great catch, @Snowdrop13!!!

Sure does, thank you!

 

[Matthews1127]

Sure does, thank you!

No!! Thank you!! So glad you caught that!! lol!!

 

[tyty333]

@Matthews1127 Not sure what video you are comparing because that GOG link I'm bringing up does not have a video of the "actual diamond".

 

[Matthews1127]

@Matthews1127 Not sure what video you are comparing because that GOG link I'm bringing up does not have a video of the "actual diamond".

I just went back to the site. You are correct. My apologies.
I still think it’s worth reaching out to GOG to request video & ASET.

 

[whitewave]

Ok, it’s filthy.

Go back, get them to clean it and steam it and then put it on your pinky and go by a window and rock it back and forth and take a video.

It’s all about if you and she like it. What is the return policy?

It’s not my choice, but that doesn’t matter here.

 

[whitewave]

Ok here is mine. I’m not holding it up as an example of a perfect asscher (probably no perfect one exists).

It’s NOT perfect, but I fell in love with it, so it is proudly mine.

Here is a short video of it moving— outside, sunny day, under patio with my back facing the sun.

For reference, it is G VS1 1.52

Very good symmetry

Excellent polish

69.7% depth

62% table

6.35mm x 6.15mm x 4.29 mm


I just want to be sure with the one you are looking at, that it’s not really dark, but that is obstruction or something.

I think most people like big but bigger isn’t better if the stone is a dud. So I want you to see how I move mine to get the steps to light up: (IG video below)

https://instagram.com/p/BrdGXZEHdF5/




(IG crops their videos weird. I don’t think I’m ever going to figure out how to center a video for IG)

 

[whitewave]

It just occurred to me that it might not be filthy, but I’m seeing the SI2 issues.



Also, the windmills don’t meet in the middle.

 

[Matthews1127]

It just occurred to me that it might not be filthy, but I’m seeing the SI2 issues.

I am extremely opposed to OP’s Asscher. I believe he can do so much better for his budget. It’s obvious it was cut for size/spread. I agree: size isn’t everything, if it’s a dud.
The clarity plot is disturbing, and it will likely be cloudy and dark based upon clouds & its shallow cut.
Very disappointing, as, otherwise, it would be a “unicorn”.

 

[whitewave]

@Matthews1127 I agree. I don’t even like the quality of the side traps.

We could help him remake this ring properly. It won’t be as spready, but the quality and brightness will be so much better.

 

[clcat120]

I am extremely opposed to OP’s Asscher. I believe he can do so much better for his budget. It’s obvious it was cut for size/spread. I agree: size isn’t everything, if it’s a dud.
The clarity plot is disturbing, and it will likely be cloudy and dark based upon clouds & its shallow cut.
Very disappointing, as, otherwise, it would be a “unicorn”.

His diamond will have a similar feel to mine... but I agree with you there are some red flag to qualify this as an unicorn. Mine is here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BaKdoMynM7W/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=i5flac4rqivx

 

[Matthews1127]

His diamond will have a similar feel to mine... but I agree with you there are some red flag to qualify this as an unicorn. Mine is here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BaKdoMynM7W/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=i5flac4rqivx

Yours does not turn black, head-on. Very beautiful! Even if your clarity grade is SI, it’s clean, and isn’t dull. It’s quite lovely.

I firmly believe OP can achieve the same ring with better quality. Granted, it may be slightly smaller (GOG example is a difference of 0.14ct, which is minimal), but it’s worth it to get a higher quality center stone, with better clarity that doesn’t potentially compromise the integrity or the performance of that stone.
I think the OP’s choice is a great start, and a wonderful find, for a first-time attempt. He is obviously trying, and is studying to be informed, in order to get the best bang for his buck. In this case, he’ll sacrifice quality for quantity, and stretch beyond his preferred budget parameters for a lower quality diamond. If you’re gonna dig deeper into your pocket, make it worth it...lol!!
Compare OP’s Asscher to GOG’s...videos, photos, and ASET’s.
Then, decide which one is best for the buck!
@StephenK, please tell me you have reached out to GOG to inquire!

 

[clcat120]

Yours does not turn black, head-on. Very beautiful! Even if your clarity grade is SI, it’s clean, and isn’t dull. It’s quite lovely.

I firmly believe OP can achieve the same ring with better quality. Granted, it may be slightly smaller (GOG example is a difference of 0.14ct, which is minimal), but it’s worth it to get a higher quality center stone, with better clarity that doesn’t potentially compromise the integrity or the performance of that stone.
I think the OP’s choice is a great start, and a wonderful find, for a first-time attempt. He is obviously trying, and is studying to be informed, in order to get the best bang for his buck. In this case, he’ll sacrifice quality for quantity, and stretch beyond his preferred budget parameters for a lower quality diamond. If you’re gonna dig deeper into your pocket, make it worth it...lol!!
Compare OP’s Asscher to GOG’s...videos, photos, and ASET’s.
Then, decide which one is best for the buck!
@StephenK, please tell me you have reached out to GOG to inquire!

Mine is a VS1 J.... and it has a similar spread as the OP’s. Point is that shallow step-cut can be beautiful, but one has to see it to be sure it works for him/her.

 

[Matthews1127]

Mine is a VS1 J.... and it has a similar spread as the OP’s. Point is that shallow step-cut can be beautiful, but one has to see it to be sure it works for him/her.

Shallow cut does work, as long as the other angles are cut in a complimentary fashion to give the stone life. Yours clearly is, and does, and it’s beautiful!
I do not see the same effect in OP’s diamond.
Just to clarify, I wasn’t making assumptions re: the clarity of your stone. I just said “if”....but it’s clearly clean, crisp regardless of its clarity grade.
It’s also very white, face-up, for a J.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The GOG stone linked is NOT an in-house stone. That means that it is very likely listed on other sites, possibly with photos. So if he is interested, he just needs to search the exact weight, color, and clarity of that stone on other sites such as JA and BN.

 

[Karl_K]

Shallow cut does work, as long as the other angles are cut in a complimentary fashion to give the stone life. Yours clearly is, and does, and it’s beautiful!
I do not see the same effect in OP’s diamond.
Just to clarify, I wasn’t making assumptions re: the clarity of your stone. I just said “if”....but it’s clearly clean, crisp regardless of its clarity grade.
It’s also very white, face-up, for a J.

+1 Good going.
There are many many different looks in asschers, after different patterns, the primary difference is the balance of very large, large, med and small flashes.
Larger tables tend towards very large to large at the expense of med and small.
That means fewer and larger flashes.
A flat top further reduces the number of flashes per rotation.
Now you take that and combine it with being inefficient at returning light to the eyes and you have a triple whammy hit on life and fire.

 

[rockysalamander]

I think there are a lot of clarity issues with the stone posted @StephenK . Any single one of the issues (clarity, uneven cutting, dead steps) might not exclude a stone, but all together they should exclude this stone At $25k all in (nearly $10k over your budget), this ring should be much much more impressive. I have even more issues with the side stones.

Also, OP -- are you sure that your girl will be comfortable with a stone of this size and a setting that is so substantial? I'm a much larger ring size at 10.25 and the ring is the width, along the finger of my ering and wedding band.

This is a prettier stone and in a lovely custom setting. Stays close to your intended budget.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-62ct-deco-asscher-cut-diamond-erika-winters-tilda-solitaire {7.54 x 7.09 x 3.98 mm}

This is sold, but is my kind of asscher! Yorams are also amazing.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-41ct-royal-asscher-cut-diamond-gia-f-si1

Lovely antique EC, would love other's thoughts.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-60ct-vintage-emerald-cut-diamond-gia-g-si2 {7.68 x 6.73 x 3.75 mm; inclusion needs a NSEW prong orientation, but very pretty and budget-friendly.}

Some antique asschers for other's to chime in upon.
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-01ct-vintage-asscher-cut-diamond-gia-g-si1/ {7.21 x 6.96 x 4.81mm; great price as its a totally eyeclean SI1 step-cut }

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/2-01ct-asscher-cut-diamond-gia-g-vvs2/ {7.22 x 7.19 x 4.58mm; gorgeous, great ASET, amazing white and clean.

 

[clcat120]

Shallow cut does work, as long as the other angles are cut in a complimentary fashion to give the stone life. Yours clearly is, and does, and it’s beautiful!
I do not see the same effect in OP’s diamond.
Just to clarify, I wasn’t making assumptions re: the clarity of your stone. I just said “if”....but it’s clearly clean, crisp regardless of its clarity grade.
It’s also very white, face-up, for a J.

Yeah... the side stones are actually F/G color... I went to Tiffany and Kwiat, and mine pair well with a G/H emerald or Asscher eternity band. Something also for @StephenK to consider.

 

[clcat120]

+1 Good going.
There are many many different looks in asschers, after different patterns, the primary difference is the balance of very large, large, med and small flashes.
Larger tables tend towards very large to large at the expense of med and small.
That means fewer and larger flashes.
A flat top further reduces the number of flashes per rotation.
Now you take that and combine it with being inefficient at returning light to the eyes and you have a triple whammy hit on life and fire.

I think my large spread stone and shallow cut (mine is 62.5% depth vs @StephenK at below 60%) has pretty good large and small flashes and fires... I particularly notice the “mirroring” effect of mine - it takes on colors from its surrounding lighting environment and I am having a lot of fun with it. I feel that’s due to the stone being flat so it acts like a mirror if well cut, so I’m not sure if a deep cut asscher will have this property? That’s a question you may know more about.

Literally just took this video in a sports bar today:

 

[Karl_K]

I think my large spread stone and shallow cut (mine is 62.5% depth vs @StephenK at below 60%) has pretty good large and small flashes and fires... I particularly notice the “mirroring” effect of mine - it takes on colors from its surrounding lighting environment and I am having a lot of fun with it. I feel that’s due to the stone being flat so it acts like a mirror if well cut, so I’m not sure if a deep cut asscher will have this property? That’s a question you may know more about.

Literally just took this video in a sports bar today:

Stunning diamond.
The balance is towards large/very large slower flashes but it is very good at doing that.
Put the video full screen notice in the video the large flashes under the table and the smaller flashes outside the table.
That is the balance I am talking about between large and smaller/med flashes.
Your diamond does large flashes so well it works. That is actually pretty rare.

edit: large virtual facets do tend to take you on a tour of your environment(colors) as they are moved.
Actually all of them do but its more visible with large to very large virtual facets because of their size and slower flashes.

 

[clcat120]

Stunning diamond.
The balance is towards large/very large slower flashes but it is very good at doing that.
Put the video full screen notice in the video the large flashes under the table and the smaller flashes outside the table.
That is the balance I am talking about between large and smaller/med flashes.
Your diamond does large flashes so well it works. That is actually pretty rare.

edit: large virtual facets do tend to take you on a tour of your environment(colors) as they are moved.
Actually all of them do but its more visible with large to very large virtual facets because of their size and slower flashes.

Thank you @Karl_K for the analysis. Not trying to hijack OP’s thread here. However, @StephenK, I bet you want your future wife’s rock to shine in all occasions! Mine is a good benchmark for you!

 

[OoohShiny]

+1 Good going.
There are many many different looks in asschers, after different patterns, the primary difference is the balance of very large, large, med and small flashes.
Larger tables tend towards very large to large at the expense of med and small.
That means fewer and larger flashes.
A flat top further reduces the number of flashes per rotation.
Now you take that and combine it with being inefficient at returning light to the eyes and you have a triple whammy hit on life and fire.

Stunning diamond.
The balance is towards large/very large slower flashes but it is very good at doing that.
Put the video full screen notice in the video the large flashes under the table and the smaller flashes outside the table.
That is the balance I am talking about between large and smaller/med flashes.
Your diamond does large flashes so well it works. That is actually pretty rare.

edit: large virtual facets do tend to take you on a tour of your environment(colors) as they are moved.
Actually all of them do but its more visible with large to very large virtual facets because of their size and slower flashes.

Thank you for the technical info, Karl!

May I just check - am I correct in thinking that larger tables increase the size of flashes and reduce the number of flashes because the smaller crown facets do not split the light up from the pavilion mains so much, meaning the pavilion mains act more as direct reflectors to the eye than facets to bounce light towards the crown facets to create more events more often, and more dispersion?


I ask because I'm still trying to work out my personal taste in asschers TBH - I love the (fewer, slower...) long facets in the middle but having bought a CBI for my good lady, I'm also a massive fan of a very lively diamond with lots of coloured fire. Would it be fair to say that the two 'flavours' of cut are mutually exclusive?

I think I know the stepcut design that would meet the latter of my criteria well and also give me some of the former, but I don't believe I can mention it here without you having to bow out of the conversation lol

 

[Karl_K]

Thank you for the technical info, Karl!

May I just check - am I correct in thinking that larger tables increase the size of flashes and reduce the number of flashes because the smaller crown facets do not split the light up from the pavilion mains so much, meaning the pavilion mains act more as direct reflectors to the eye than facets to bounce light towards the crown facets to create more events more often, and more dispersion?

Basically. Its a bit more complex because its just not more direct exposure to the mains its also fewer interactions between facets. Reduced 3d effect. Reduction in side view size appearance.
Drawing off axis light is a big part of it. Air cant draw light into the mains to be returned, where a high crown can.
That does not mean they can not be stunning if they have "IT"


I ask because I'm still trying to work out my personal taste in asschers TBH - I love the (fewer, slower...) long facets in the middle but having bought a CBI for my good lady, I'm also a massive fan of a very lively diamond with lots of coloured fire. Would it be fair to say that the two 'flavours' of cut are mutually exclusive?

They can be balanced in many different ways that create great looking diamonds that look very unalike both in profile, patterns and light return. People can and do have preferences and some like most or all of the variations.
Personally I can appreciate all the different well cut ones and hey even some of the less well cut ones.
That does not mean I would buy them, there is a difference between appreciating and putting money on them.

I think I know the stepcut design that would meet the latter of my criteria well and also give me some of the former, but I don't believe I can mention it here without you having to bow out of the conversation lol

 

[Emeraldsaremyfavorite]

Very curious what you are going to do here! It seems to me, everyone is on the same page. Numbers do generally lead to the beauty of the diamond but not always! You can find a spready diamond that is beautifully cut. I did, twice! But it takes a lot of time and patience. If this one happened to be a unicorn then you would be very lucky and I would say to snatch it up. But, if you are looking for a spready diamond with good performance, it will take A LOT of time. You can find a very pretty, well cut diamond, smaller face up with better dimensions much easier than finding that well cut low depth/ large table diamond.

Just my wrap up of this discussion on this diamond. We still haven't seen it move but most on here are pretty sure it will not perform. Good luck!

 

[the_mother_thing]

@StephenK What are your and the wearer’s priorities in terms of the 5 ‘Cs’: cut (meaning performance/light return), color, clarity, carat, and cost (literally, in what order)? You have to understand that this forum is largely comprised of ‘cut nuts’, but if your priority is carat (face-up size), then that may influence the feedback you receive. Not everyone is seeking ‘perfect’ cut, and that is okay so long as you understand & prioritize the trade-offs.

Also, with Asschers, there are variations ... some are more square, some more octagonal ... what is your/your intended’s preference?

Addressing these items will help folks here better advise you.

 

[StephenK]

@StephenK What are your and the wearer’s priorities in terms of the 5 ‘Cs’: cut (meaning performance/light return), color, clarity, carat, and cost (literally, in what order)? You have to understand that this forum is largely comprised of ‘cut nuts’, but if your priority is carat (face-up size), then that may influence the feedback you receive. Not everyone is seeking ‘perfect’ cut, and that is okay so long as you understand & prioritize the trade-offs.

Also, with Asschers, there are variations ... some are more square, some more octagonal ... what is your/your intended’s preference?

Addressing these items will help folks here better advise you.

Thanks for your question “the_mother_thing”
I wish I could rank the 5 C’s in priority (and I am making an educated/intuited guess at my beloved taste).
I’ve already learned so much from y’all that any attitude towards “Cut” I started with at the beginning of this thread has certainly evolved.

I know that I’m clearly drawn towards Asscher cuts (and Kaleidoscopes have been a theme in her life, so the hall of mirrors theme is evocative), and away from the round and brilliant cuts.

I now much better understand the goals of the Asscher cuts, and the examples (especially the video) and subsequent commentaries are incredibly helpful in showing what to look for.

If my budget was $25k for a center stone and then extra for the two side stones and setting, I’d be jumping the the GOG stone. But I can’t go above $18k all in.

I’ll see if I can get a video of this one.

 

[MarionC]

I must say, the size of that stone is awesome. I wish we could see the performance in person.
Here are some asscher videos fyi
These asschers are from Gemconcepts and are quite a bit smaller than your diamond.
The dark spot in the cemter is a culet.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl78_1SFaxQ/?taken-by=gemconcepts

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl97LebgWZv/?taken-by=gemconcepts

 

[Matilda]

@StephenK Is there a return period? If there is perhaps it is an idea to get it and have time to test its performance. If during that time you don't like it then at least you know that and so will be free of regret while looking at other diamonds, it won't be the "one that got away". Of course, if you do like it then awesome!

 

[Matthews1127]

Thanks for your question “the_mother_thing”
I wish I could rank the 5 C’s in priority (and I am making an educated/intuited guess at my beloved taste).
I’ve already learned so much from y’all that any attitude towards “Cut” I started with at the beginning of this thread has certainly evolved.

I know that I’m clearly drawn towards Asscher cuts (and Kaleidoscopes have been a theme in her life, so the hall of mirrors theme is evocative), and away from the round and brilliant cuts.

I now much better understand the goals of the Asscher cuts, and the examples (especially the video) and subsequent commentaries are incredibly helpful in showing what to look for.

If my budget was $25k for a center stone and then extra for the two side stones and setting, I’d be jumping the the GOG stone. But I can’t go above $18k all in.

I’ll see if I can get a video of this one.

$18k all in? The current ring, completed, is near $25k, is it not?
Am I missing something, or am I reading posts, incorrectly? Where did $25k come from in this conversation? I know you stated your initial budget was under $18k, but $25k was mentioned.
Honestly, I don’t see you keeping this entire project around $18k for the size of diamond you’re seeking, with 2 side stones + the setting. You CAN get a high quality, large center stone in the setting for your budget, but the side stones will jack up the price.
I found this beauty for $17k.
That only leaves $1k for side stones & the setting, which will be tough.
The stone is considerably smaller than what you’re looking at, but it’s higher quality.
If nothing else, use this as another example of a well-performing Asscher to compare to the videos you get of the ring you are considering to determine what you want to do.

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...ut/2.51-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-4979984