HELP! Tell me about this 3.56c Asscher with Table 73% (9.31mm) -KarlK, DiamondSeeker anyone? Thanks!

[StephenK]

Hi! I am a diamond novice (but a quick study and I've been reading hosts of posts here), and am looking for the right ring with which to propose to my girlfriend. I know I want an Asscher, and gravitate to three stone settings. I was shown this ring yesterday.

Specs:
3.56 I SI2
9.31 x 8.98 x 5.34
Table percentage is quite high 73%
Depth percentage is 59.5%
polish + symmetry Very good
fluorescence none

I understand that the table percentage is quite high (73%)
--I have seen @Karl_K say that "Under 65% is my preferred range" with Asschers. Any thoughts?
--What do you think of this table percentage?

I also recognize that Assher's tend to particularly benefit from better Grade and Clarity
--so that I SI2 is borderline.

Dimensions
--My understanding is that 9.31mm is huge for a 3.56 carat Asscher because this one is not very deep. Is the shallower depth mostly a good or bad thing?
--Depth percentage is 59.5%
--9.31 x 8.98 gives a ratio of 1.036

Sorry that the photos of the ring itself are not professional (taken with an iphone in the jewelry store parking lot)
--I can go back and get more formal stone photographs if that'd be helpful.

There are few Asscher's to compare to get a sense of what this stone is worth. In fact, not a single one available between 3.30-3.99 H-I Si1 or Si2 available on diamond search engine. Any estimates on what this one is worth on its own?

The store is asking $25,000 for the ring as is, platinum band with a pair of trapezoidal 1.5c diamonds on either side. They came down $8k from the tag, but who knows what relevance the tag has.

Thank you anyone for any input at all you might be willing to provide. I can get plenty more info, but need guidance on what to ask for. Help: @diamondseeker2006, @valeria101, @Karl_K and any others. Thanks.

 

[Karl_K]

The only thing going for is its huge for the weight for an asscher.
Huge table, flat top and a bit dark in the center.
Fire and life is going to be way down compared to a well cut example.

 

[AV_]

I would call it 'square step cut' and wish for either a better view or ASET or both. I tend to like the type... these diamonds look somewhat stark/simple, as opposed to a great deal more play of light in the relatively typical 'Asscher' model.

The numbers tell me that the ASET could show too much contrast (blue-black), but anything is possible. The pictures show darkness but they are very close up, so perhaps not fair to a diamond disliking being shaded by its viewer (this is whar ASET black signifies, I think). A better shot would be from a more realistic viewing distance.

2c

 

[Matilda]

As you saw it in person what did YOU think of it’s performance? Could you perhaps go as see it again?

 

[Matilda]

Also doubt this is very useful for price comparison but nonetheless:

https://www.rarecarat.com/c/70207748-54c9-4864-a1fa-20dcd0eb85bc

The prices are for only the 3something asscher

 

[StephenK]

Additional photo.
Not sure if this is helpful.

 

[StephenK]

Additional photo.

 

[StephenK]

As you saw it in person what did YOU think of it’s performance? Could you perhaps go as see it again?

My untrained eye was drawn mostly to the apparent size of the stone (length and width). Haven’t seen enough Asschers to comment on the relative performance. Saw the hall of mirrors effect. Saw the windmill effect. I think it was complete, but will have to go back to be sure.

 

[whitewave]

I can’t stop looking at the dark step. Does the darkness ever go away?

 

[StephenK]

Asked seller for an ASET. He said he is willing to do it, but he also said: “There no point on an Asscher cut! Only on rounds I’ve ever done to prove light performance! ” any thoughts? Said I needed to put a deposit down on ring to take it off floor for 9days to do that analysis. Worth it? I could look at it thru an idealscope at the store but don’t know what I’d be looking for.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Asked seller for an ASET. He said he is willing to do it, but he also said: “There no point on an Asscher cut! Only on rounds I’ve ever done to prove light performance! ” any thoughts? Said I needed to put a deposit down on ring to take it off floor for 9days to do that analysis. Worth it? I could look at it thru an idealscope at the store but don’t know what I’d be looking for.

An ASET can help assess asscher performance; however, the ‘rules’ aren’t exactly the same. It is my understanding - someone please correct me if I’m wrong - that you may expect to see a little more green than you would with a well-cut round.

For example: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/asscher-cut-aset-images-and-specs.174918/

 

[Lykame]

I know very little about asschers, but my immediate thought is that it looks 'all off' with the way the light obstruction is dealt with by it in pretty much all of your photos, and that puts me right off. You're spending a lot of money, I strongly suspect you can do better.

Just in general as well, I dislike the cavity along the edge of the diamond - the plot makes it look like it's on the girdle? Especially as it's a stone that relies on straight lines for its visuality, if that's even a word. Is the cavity something you can feel with a fingernail? That is something that would personally drive me nuts, but that's just me. And things on the girdle make me concerned about a poorly aimed knock to the stone... I know that's a very rare thing, but it's not so rare that it doesn't get posted about here. Additionally, the grade making inclusion is a feather - is it surface reaching? I personally cannot make any comment about the actual significance of that either way (I think in general a lot of excellent stones are turned down for feathers that are nothing to worry about), but again it's something to ponder, considering it's an SI2. Perhaps an expert can chime in?

I do, however, really like the design of this ring. Good luck on your hunt!

ETA: How will the ASET be done? This is currently a mounted stone and I'm sure that will affect the outcome of an ASET...

 

[OoohShiny]

My personal initial reaction is that it looks quite dark head-on.

Just to check, you have said that you want an asscher, but what does your intended want? Is it going to be a surprise proposal or have you discussed things and looked at rings / diamonds before?

Is your budget 25k USD? If so, we can help find you some other options (although they may not be quite so substantial in terms of spread).

 

[StephenK]

Budget was less than 25k. Perhaps 18k. This is a surprise proposal. I’ve conferred with her girlfriend, and she and I agreed on square/rectangle, but I’ve stayed away from princess cut. Kaleidoscopes have a resonance with her, and so liked the hall of mirrors of Asscher, but I was looking at emerald cut and cushion cut as well. The Octavia I’ve heard about but haven’t seen.
Does that answer your question?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Way too many negatives for me...cut is not great, table too large, primary SI2 inclusion is a feather (crack). You can find a much better asscher than this one.

 

[Emeraldsaremyfavorite]

We really need to see this sucker move in different lighting. I agree that it looks dark. Ask a really good geomolgist about the inclusion being a crack. But..: I don’t mind the large table and depth. I would trade that because it gives you a good size. If money and size doesn’t matter, then go smaller better cut. But, if this performs well and just isn’t “perfect” I say the size and price are great! However, you want a pretty diamond so your eyes will have to be the judge.

 

[Emeraldsaremyfavorite]

And yes this is a very good price so really look at this diamond and see if it sings to you. Ignore the numbers and see if it is beautiful to you!! But don’t ignore that inclusion

 

[Matthews1127]

The only thing going for is its huge for the weight for an asscher.
Huge table, flat top and a bit dark in the center.
Fire and life is going to be way down compared to a well cut example.

This was my initial thought. I examined the certificate, and the comments mention that additional clouds & pinpoints are not shown, which causes me to pull away, even more.
The diamond seems dark & lifeless. On top of that, you have some serious inclusions as your top inclusions: feather & clouds (some not even plotted).

I’m not one to knock SI clarity grades; I’m the happy owner of an EC G SI2. However, my inclusions are clear, and do not negatively impact the integrity of the diamond, nor detract from its beauty. She holds her own, under magnification, and with the naked eye, against D VS graded EC’s of similar weight. My EC has a larger table than most prefer, but she faces up much larger, next to other EC’s of similar weight. Her cut is superior, and she performs like a champ; her steps are on & off, as expected. There are no dead spots, and the flashes of light that reflect off of her are blinding! Because she is cut well, the majority of people believe she is a larger diamond than she really is. Most mistake her for 2ct, and she’s 1.07ct. I placed her next to a heavy 2ct G color, VVS clarity round cut diamond, and they looked very close in size. The shape is clearly different, but she held her own against a heavier, round cut diamond. My DH got her at an enormous bargain, and I have yet to find another EC that can beat her for the quality & price.

The price for the size of the Asscher you are considering is a steal, but at the expense of superior cut & performance.
You have to decide if compromising those points of quality are worth sacrificing for overall size & face up appearance.
Somehow, I doubt you’d prefer a larger, dead, lifeless stone to one of lighter weight that sparkles like the top of the Chrysler building.

You can find better for your budget.
I’d recommend Yoram at Gem Concepts (he also has the Octavia), Diamonds by Lauren (Octavia also sold there), or GOG (another vendor of the Octavia). Do not be afraid to request a jeweler to source Asschers for you based upon your budget, and specifications.

Typically, Asschers face-up smaller than rounds, as they are fancy cut diamonds, and they tend to be a bit deeper in order for the pavilion angles to compliment crown angles for premium performance.

This is an excellent read:

https://www.pricescope.com/articles/performance-and-p3-facets-discussion-about-step-cut-diamonds

FWIW, DH & I purchased 7 beautiful vintage cut Asschers from Yoram, and, by far, they are the most PERFECT Asschers I’ve ever seen!! I highly recommend him to anyone!

 

[Matthews1127]

Found this (by accident) at Whiteflash.
AGS certified (drooling).
http://certs.rapnet.com/userfolders/8258/Certs/AS4624.jpg

Place this on hold NOW, and ask for more visual aids (ie: videos and ASET images).
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut-loose-diamond-4015762.htm

 

[Dancing Fire]

If I was looking for a square stone I want perfect square. 9.31 x 8.98 is not very square.

 

[Matthews1127]

GOG. Another amazing option!
Place on hold & request visual aids!!

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamonds

 

[StephenK]

I tremendously appreciate all of your feedback and insight. A number of comments were based on my limited initial photos, so I went back to the store this afternoon and took loads of photos.
Here are the best one, including my (perhaps laughable) attempt to take a photo thru the Idealscope. Not sure how relevant the idealscope is for Asscher's, nor how well this photograph represents what I saw with my idea through the Idealscope.
Thanks again.

 

[Emeraldsaremyfavorite]

I’m still hoping this works for you because I feel like it’s a unicorn if it performs well! How does it move... does it sparkle and throw off flashes? Or do you see a good amount of black when you turn the diamond? You want this diamond to continually sparkle and the steps to move as you rotate the ring. If it turns dead/black and just looks dull, definitely pass. It is very hard to photopgraph step cuts because they reflect the black phone/camera so videos are best. Have the vendor send you a video and post

 

[Matilda]

Unpopular opinion but I like it! However it may be because of the entirety of the ring setting...It catches my eye in a good way. Also I may be drawn to it as I have yet to see it in movement..I think a video would help to know how it behaved when not still, when the diamond is still its a pretty picture

 

[clcat120]

It has a very similar parameters and taste to mine.... wow.... I like it. The inclusions look ok actually from the pictures - seems to be a clean SI2. However, I’m pretty picky with clarity and I often look at my stones under my magnifier. If your lady is like mine, I’d like to see some picture is the stone under 10-30x magnifications. I can see the cut pattern isn’t perfect, but no single stone comes without some imperfection IMHO.

I think it is more of an emerald than an asscher, but I like the look of it. It is difficult to judge the cut (not just the GIA stats) by looking at the pictures. I think you really need to see some videos.

You can click on my profile and see the ones I filmed. Try to get some videos like those so we can all give you better opinions.

 

[clcat120]

I tremendously appreciate all of your feedback and insight. A number of comments were based on my limited initial photos, so I went back to the store this afternoon and took loads of photos.
Here are the best one, including my (perhaps laughable) attempt to take a photo thru the Idealscope. Not sure how relevant the idealscope is for Asscher's, nor how well this photograph represents what I saw with my idea through the Idealscope.
Thanks again.

Agree with a lot of comments above that the center is dark and have significant leakage (see the blue vertical band in the left). Mine have some leakage but much smaller. Also the dark spots look asymmetric, and that may impact the light performance.

You ASET is not done face-up - the center stone is tilted, so that’s really no good at all.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think the darkness in the center is an additional dealbreaker for me. Really, the only reason I think one would buy this stone is because of it's size. If you think the recipient will be happiest with a large diamond that isn't well cut versus a smaller one that is, then you have your answer.

 

[AV_]

Catching up from a different time-zone:

The pictreus show rather what I expected: dark reflections from nearby in almost all the shots staring the diamond in the face. From a couple of meters away or with the stone tilted toward some light source not shaded by the photographer, it looks like a mirror. Bright for affar - dark close-by, unless you tilt it to catch light.

Of course, stones that almost never go dark, are loved better. They might measure less, but have greater presence.
_

This diamond would be good for me, but my taste goes heywire like this in everything.

 

[Snowdrop13]

I’m absolutely no expert when it comes to square cuts but after years of reading on here I know that it’s much more difficult to find a good one than, say, a round. There are plenty of gorgeous emeralds and asschers on PS, I’m sure you’ve seen a few of them.

This diamond looks very dark in the centre to me. The price is “too good to be true” which is a red flag, maybe the jeweller has not been able to get anyone else to buy it??

Also, the ring setting is quite chunky and the width is pretty big- what size are your girl’s fingers? She may find that this is not comfortable to wear?

If it were me, I’d rather have a 2ct, beautifully cut stone in a more delicate setting.

Just my 2c

 

[Snowdrop13]

GOG. Another amazing option!
Place on hold & request visual aids!!

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamonds

I’m dying to see what this looks like but the link goes to the main search page on GOG.