President Trump's Wisdom on Finland and Forest Fires

[AGBF]

Given that President Trump has spoken out on how California could have prevented its massive forest fires, I thought I would start a thread about the topic. Surely we should all learn from him so that we do not cause more of these fires. I do want to point out that Finland, unlike California, lies partially in the Arctic Circle and is moist, not dry. I am posting a map to show this in case its geography might have an impact on its propensity (or lack thereof) to catch fire. And here is the president, making his case.

Donald Trump speaks:

The Part of Finland that lies within the Arctic Circle:
.

 

[monarch64]

He makes George W. look like a member of Mensa.

 

[tkyasx78]

I saw that. Sadly donald trump is a liar. Multiple world leaders have had to issue statements over the last 2 years to " correct" his lies.

 

[House Cat]

My husband and son are avid outdoorsmen. We own a travel trailer. This means we go camping in the sierra more than anyone I know...maybe more than anyone should? We’re gone almost every weekend in the summer, every other weekend in the fall, and we camp in the valley during the winter.

The affects of climate change and drought are totally apparent on the landscape of the forest. The actual color of the forest is beginning to change from its rich beautiful green color to a more brown tinged color due to the dying trees. Years ago I couldn’t determine whether the trees were dying from actual drought or bark beetles. Later, I learned it was both. Stressed trees emit a signal that bark beetles are attracted to. They move in and finish off the tree.

A couple of years ago, the forestry service was cleaning off all of the dead branches from the trees and making large piles on the forest floor. We figured this was to stop beetles or to somehow save the trees. This year, however, there were giant piles that were one to two stories high that consisted of dead trees and forest debris, that were collected in an effort to clean the dead wood from the forest. These piles were everywhere. I assume they were in the process of cleaning them up. So to answer President Trump, massive efforts are being made to clean the forest.

But I’m not sure he wants to know about that because then he might have to acknowledge the real reason for the problem. When you see the massive drying out of the trees due to lack of water, you can’t deny climate change.

 

[JPie]

 

[Karl_K]

My husband and son are avid outdoorsmen. We own a travel trailer. This means we go camping in the sierra more than anyone I know...maybe more than anyone should? We’re gone almost every weekend in the summer, every other weekend in the fall, and we camp in the valley during the winter.

The affects of climate change and drought are totally apparent on the landscape of the forest. The actual color of the forest is beginning to change from its rich beautiful green color to a more brown tinged color due to the dying trees. Years ago I couldn’t determine whether the trees were dying from actual drought or bark beetles. Later, I learned it was both. Stressed trees emit a signal that bark beetles are attracted to. They move in and finish off the tree.

A couple of years ago, the forestry service was cleaning off all of the dead branches from the trees and making large piles on the forest floor. We figured this was to stop beetles or to somehow save the trees. This year, however, there were giant piles that were one to two stories high that consisted of dead trees and forest debris, that were collected in an effort to clean the dead wood from the forest. These piles were everywhere. I assume they were in the process of cleaning them up. So to answer President Trump, massive efforts are being made to clean the forest.

But I’m not sure he wants to know about that because then he might have to acknowledge the real reason for the problem. When you see the massive drying out of the trees due to lack of water, you can’t deny climate change.

Every time they try and do something it gets tied up in court for years.
BUT:
The fact is that these forests have been burning for thousands of years and need to burn to survive.
So what do supposedly smart humans do?
Build million dollar homes in thousands of years old fire zones!

 

[Karl_K]

It is true that cleaning out the underbrush would limit the spread of the fires but literally nothing can prevent them because it is how nature is in those areas.
What makes me really sad is that a lot of these areas were death zones in the event of a fire that was going to happen no matter what humans did was 100% predictable. Yet houses were built there and people act like it was shocking that it happened.

 

[AV_]

@JPie I'd make that the Official Portrait (if there is no such thing yet, someone ought to tell em' to catch up)

The shot reminds Modi's campaign to swipe India clean... - it worked then & there.

 

[Karl_K]

The forest service owns thousands if not millions of rakes just like that one.
Firebreaks have to be maintained which means using a weed-wacker and a rake in some areas.
In fact as a volunteer with the local park district I did exactly that one summer in a fire break in a local park.

 

[Ellen]

He makes George W. look like a member of Mensa.

This made me laugh out loud, it's so true. Who'da thunk it?

 

[Karl_K]

btw
here is a root rake used in forest management.

Here is a brush rake also used in forest management.

 

[House Cat]

It is true that cleaning out the underbrush would limit the spread of the fires but literally nothing can prevent them because it is how nature is in those areas.
What makes me really sad is that a lot of these areas were death zones in the event of a fire that was going to happen no matter what humans did was 100% predictable. Yet houses were built there and people act like it was shocking that it happened.

https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_hess...hat_we_can_do_about_it/transcript?language=en

I posted this ted talk on another thread a while back. A term is used during this talk, “an epidemic of trees.” This has resonated deeply with me since watching this video. I look at our forests now through different eyes. There are too many smaller trees and not enough larger, fire resistant trees in our forests. The smaller trees are nothing but fuel for the mega-fires we are having lately.

I think that maybe... it wasn’t a terrible idea to settle in the forests many years ago before the epidemic of trees took hold.

 

[Karl_K]

Iv seen this style of brush rake in use in videos of the forest service.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

If he had another brain, the two of them would rattle.

 

[Karl_K]

https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_hess...hat_we_can_do_about_it/transcript?language=en

I posted this ted talk on another thread a while back. A term is used during this talk, “an epidemic of trees.” This has resonated deeply with me since watching this video. I look at our forests now through different eyes. There are too many smaller trees and not enough larger, fire resistant trees in our forests. The smaller trees are nothing but fuel for the mega-fires we are having lately.

I think that maybe... it wasn’t a terrible idea to settle in the forests many years ago before the epidemic of trees took hold.

Interesting talk.
I could be wrong but I believe the million dollar plus houses are less than 30 years old and many of the other areas had a ton of new construction in the same period.

 

[House Cat]

Interesting talk.
I could be wrong but I believe the million dollar plus houses are less than 30 years old and many of the other areas had a ton of new construction in the same period.

Karl,
People have been settling in California’s hills since they’ve been settling in California. Living in our forested areas is nothing new but these mega fires certainly are.

 

[Matata]

Karl,
People have been settling in California’s hills since they’ve been settling in California. Living in our forested areas is nothing new but these mega fires certainly are.

Small numbers of people living in small cabins/houses on small treed lots is vastly different than large numbers of people living in large homes on lots that have been cleared of most if not all natural vegetation. Add to that the issues of landslides after fires on steep slopes. There are simply too many people living in places they shouldn't.

 

[House Cat]

Small numbers of people living in small cabins/houses on small treed lots is vastly different than large numbers of people living in large homes on lots that have been cleared of most if not all natural vegetation. Add to that the issues of landslides after fires on steep slopes. There are simply too many people living in places they shouldn't.

I get the feeling everyone is referring to Southern California rather than Northern California. The people in Paradise and Concow didn’t really have large homes to lose. Landslides aren’t really an issue. 15 minutes away from my home in very wooded areas, are homes that were built over 70-100 years ago. All of this predates this kind of fire. Karl was saying people were moving in after this type of fire.

A lot of the people who live in these hills are very poor. That’s why they live there. I don’t see how they can just up and move with our property values being what they are.

 

[Bron357]

Forest fires existed long before we took up residence in or near forested areas.
In Australia many species of trees actually require a fire to activate their seeds.
Climate change, whether man made or a natural phenomenon is making some parts of the world much drier, others wetter.
Here in Australia we have areas that haven’t seen rain for almost a decade. Imagine having an 8 year old child who has never seen rain.
You can’t “sweep up” forest leaves and stop fires. All you can do is reduce fire hazards and have a fire fighting plan in place, however if you lchose to live near a huge forested area, a fire is always a possibility, just as if you live near a river on low lying land you face the risk of flood.
“We make our choices and take our chances”.
Trumps mouth (and fingers) operate independently of a brain.