Lost engagement ring. Replacement. ...M-Z color, miner-cut, vintage, "savings", advice re loss.

[BD626]

This is an expanded post having to do with pricing/valuing N-Z colored diamonds. Because I found this site so useful in choosing my own ring(s), I’m sharing my experience in hope to help others, with lots of photos, HOWEVER to avoid some nastiness I’ve seen in other posts…

Please be nice:

* this post involves my lost engagement ring, and the one I’ve chosen to replace it. Please don’t comment on how great the lost ring was, or how much better you like it than the new one. Think it if you’d like, but please don’t post it.

* Some people prefer colors that are whiter on the GIA scale (D-J), some like yellower diamonds (K-Z). Feel free to post about color, but referring to yellower diamonds as ‘stained teeth’, ‘urine-colored’ and so on seems unfair. After all, ‘chocolate diamonds’, ‘cognac/whiskey diamonds’ are all marketing names, those diamonds used to be cast-offs.

* This is a post about diamond rings £2000-3000. If you compare these diamonds to the Hope diamond, or the Krupp diamond, or that great ring you saw the Duchess of Cambridge wearing… keep price in mind.

_____________________________


So without further ado… It all started with a love story. Between myself and my grandma’s ring that I used to pull out of a box and admire as a girl. It was not her wedding ring, it was repurposed from some other piece of jewelry. It’s a miner-cut diamond in a platinum setting with visible flakes of carbon floating in it. But I loved the setting and 1920’s feel. When my now-husband asked me to get married, I showed it to him for inspiration. The ring has a sad story attached, otherwise I might have chosen it for my own wedding ring.

(In the photos attached here it is the more vintage-looking ring, bottom ....

 

[BD626]

My husband went looking for rings. We studied a lot. I was open to stones other than diamonds, but he thought that rings like that don’t communicate ‘married’ to others. I was open to saving money by picking a cut other than round, a color other than D-J, and buying used (In the UK there’s a VAT tax for new items).

We did buy used, but as for the rest there just didn’t seem to be a lot of options. The jeweller said that ‘reputable jewellers don’t carry rings past J color grade’, that ‘it’s difficult to find cuts other than round’, etc.

This was the ring, in the end. It was lovely. 1 carat and a bit more in white gold. No certification, so color unknown.

 

[BD626]

It slipped off my hand in the first few months of marriage on a cold winter day.

To anyone purchasing a ring here’s our experience with lost rings. The rings we purchased were large, mostly because we lived in different cities at the time we were dating. We used the imperfect ‘tie a string around your finger’ method of ring sizing. The jeweller insisted that resizing was free at his shop. This is problematic. If you’re buying a ring get the correct size right off by having your finger properly measured. When I went to have it resized they suggested another option: just putting two ball bearings toward the inside bottom of the ring. It did make the diamond sit straight up on my finger, but did not make it smaller. They said the size of my finger would expand when summer rolled around. Again, my advice is get the size right the first time around and follow your gut if a jeweler tries to guide you with something you’re not comfortable with.

Advice for first-time ring buyers: Regarding insurance: The ring was covered under our home insurance. The insurer wanted us to establish that it had NOT been lost in the home, which is difficult (if not impossible) to do. I.e., you have to prove where you lost it. After talking to other women that have had the same experience, I can say that many insurers will have their own valuer put a price estimate on the ring based on photos (your receipt proves what you paid for it, not what it’s worth). It may be worth your time to get your own valuation done after you buy your ring, for insurance purposes. Some companies want photos of the ring on your hand over time, complete with metadata. This means if you’ve shared pics with friends over whatsapp etc, the metadata might have been stripped, which is apparently not great. I did not have an additional wedding ring which served as an engagement ring ‘stopper’- it seemed silly to me at the time to have multiple rings- but now I know why women do. Even a plain silver band would have prevented heartbreak. If this is all not bad enough, I was shocked to discover that our insurer WOULD HAVE GIVEN US A COUPON/VOUCHER (!!!) to be used at a jeweller chosen by THEM (!!!). Not even real cash. No choice in jewellers. So I highly suggest not losing your engagement ring.


___________________________________


Fast forward three years. Finally saved up enough for a ring. This time I decided to go with an Italian friend (in Italy), who works in the jewelry industry (though not diamonds), and had friends who could provide a stone and set it. Here is a photo of the two diamonds he let me choose from. These photos were taken outdoors, but in a shaded area. The whiter diamond was .8 of a carat with a small inclusion (eye-clean), the yellower one was 1.07, no inclusions. I’m also including some photos of the final ring (

...

 

[BD626]

Here’s the thing. I paid to have the diamond certified before I paid the last part of the money due on the ring. The cert came back as follows:

clarity: VVS1
carat weight: 1.068
cut quality: very good
shape-cut: round/brilliant
fluorescence: very strong.

Looks good, right? But wait…. Color: P….P. …P. P!

My eyeballs must suck because I NEVER would have guessed.

I am including some photos of my new engagement ring next to my grandmas for comparison. The stone looks its whitest in sunlight. It has high fluorescence (see photos of rings under a black light for more info). Artificial lighting (or office lighting) does indeed change its color. I think I may enjoy this in the long run. I went for a completely different style this time because the new ring will never be the old one. The new style reminds me of a very old tree my husband and I often pass... I might get a filigree wedding band to bring some of the old ring's spirit into the mix. Eventually. When I save more, lol (?)

The third ring in this photo is a new ring of a friend's by Georg Jensen, Rock Crystal (quartz) in Silver for about $200-300... just thought I would include it so that prospective brides know that diamonds aren't the only option.

 

[BD626]

Rings in natural light: various backgrounds, both sunlight and shade. Note white tone to "P" diamond...

 

[BD626]

Under office/home lighting at night, at its 'yellowest'... I know that choosing a yellow gold setting would have made it seem whiter, but I figure why not just highlight what it really is rather than considering yellow a 'defect'? :

 

[BD626]

This ring has high flourescence... this probably helps to offset its yellowness but could cause a 'hazy' effect that I've only noticed in extreme sunlight. Here the two rings are under a black light (UV light) leftover from Halloween:

 

[BD626]

Here's an indication of size. The modern ring is 1 carat. I have read that the deeper the ring is cut (more like a V) the more sparkly it will be, and while you can have a 1 carat ring that has a large surface area, you will sacrifice sparkle. Thoughts?

 

[BD626]

P.S. Rock crystal ring above is the Savannah model (Georg Jensen).

Photo of the massive inclusions in my grandma's ring, under a loupe. Would you rather have a 'dirty' diamond with "better" color, or a perfect diamond that is slightly yellow?

 

[BD626]

colors

Certification of new stone (Italian): note that there is a table for American(GIA D-Z) and British ones (Regno Unito). I am told by a friend that is a geologist that these are where the diamond was mined. Example: "Cape = South Africa.

 

[AprilBaby]

I like the final ring best! It’s modern and gorgeous! I’m glad you had a happy ending.

 

[BD626]

Ring profiles:

 

[BD626]

I like the final ring best! It’s modern and gorgeous! I’m glad you had a happy ending.

THANK YOU. I can't believe someone has got to the end of this post!!!

 

[BD626]

Final thoughts for total geeks (i.e. skip if you're not a geek):

So many questions…

1) I know that color has NOTHING to do with quality- it has to do with rarity (which drives price). But certainly it seems to me that jewelers would do well to stock a range of colors as many women would prefer a larger carat size to a small colorless stone. Why is this not the case?

2) I’ve returned to the old shop to inquire as to how their gemologist values diamonds (especially once they’re already set), and they told me they don’t’ have any gemologist on duty! They are both diamond setters. Because most diamonds are not certified, does this mean they just charge what they think people are willing to spend?

3) Most importantly, how do I value my own lovely blonde stone? The diamond colour scale goes from A-Z, but I’ve found it incredibly difficult to find any prices past M… (i.e., Rapaport Report, online, etc). It seems like N-Z diamonds should have a value too.

4) Someone has clearly spent some energy cutting this beautiful stone. That’s more than adequate in every other way. The N-Z range seems to be a bit of a dead place in the market. Is it only after cutting that color is discovered? Where do all the N-Z colored stones go? Presumably if the scale went past Z, colored diamonds would start to raise in price again. Is there a separate scale for colored diamonds?

5) How would all of you maximize value in a ring in this price range?

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Beautiful ring- I am glad you chose the diamond you liked best which is important. You asked how you would value or price your diamond. If memory serves me right (and it may or may not I have read thousands of diamond threads and posts on PS) that when comparing diamonds of same size and cut grade, that for each color down the scale you would deduct about 10%. I did find similar diamonds using the PS search that were "O" colored- so perhaps 10% less then they cost? Then of course there is re-sale value that a pre-loved diamond will fetch which is usually significantly less than vendor prices unless the diamond is a coveted, branded stone or a diamond that is considered more rare. And with that said- buyers usually want a recent lab report from GIA or AGS.

I don't know if that helps or not. So where do all the N-Z colored diamonds go? There are buyers for them (I am one) but with that said, I believe most diamond buyers prefer either colorless, near colorless of colored diamonds.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I think it’s gorgeous!

Heh. A wedding ring as a “stopper” .. seems a good excuse to me to get into stackers

 

[Ally T]

I made it to the bottom of the reading too!
So sorry to hear you lost your original ring. My original ring was too damaged to repair after an accident & cracked diamond. Heartbreaking, isn't it?

I think your new diamond is beautiful. The body colour is definitely there, so there's no mistaking in my eye & certainly no comments about 'dirty diamonds' etc.

Very good question about where all the N colours go - I have never thought about this before? My replacement engagement ring (avatar) is a D VS2, as way back when, many moons ago when it was bought, that's what we were brainwashed into, as you stated. My husband was completely glazed about perfect colour & clarity, perfect stone, perfect, perfect, perfect. But I actually love a warmer diamond! I am VERY in love with original antique old cuts, and think they lend themselves better to a creamy colour. They dance better in the light. My full eternity that he had made are also certed as matched E's, so they pair well together. However, as I often wear my eternity on my RH due to extreme temp changes causing finger swelling (how hot was our UK summer??!) I am toying with the idea of selling my pear cut & buying a lower colour antique stone. Husband is not on board yet, but give me time

I think your new setting is truly unique & lovely too - please indulge us with hand shots! And also, I do love your Grandmothers ring, inclusions & all. It's very lovely & romantic.

 

[BD626]

Alex T!

CRACKED DIAMOND?? I think the only thing worse than losing my ring would have been seeing it damaged. Weird how one grows attached to objects like that.

I find that our budget caused us to make decisions, if we had had more we might have chosen differently. I've found that the ring world opens up quite spectacularly at maybe the 5k price target. (Not commenting on specifically your ring, which is beautiful btw, just colorless stones in general.)

But of course my husband picked the first ring, and he was very 'linear' too in that he went out feeling like he had to buy a big white rock, nothing could dissuade him from it. It reminds me of the way men buy perfumes for women at Christmastime. Even if I were the kind of person to buy Calvin Klein "One" for myself or Jennifer Lopez' "Glow", for example, a man would never buy that as a gift for you. You'll get what he *thinks* a woman should smell like, whatever that is (usually roses, and lots of them). ...Am now secretly wondering what perfume your husband gets you.

I picked my second ring, which makes me wonder what womens' engagement rings would look like if women chose their own.

I also wonder what the world would look like if diamond colors D-Z were equally rare, making color choice a matter purely of taste. (i.e., if we all want what's nearly impossible to have)...

I don't mind being brainwashed to buy an expensive thing to get married, I suppose (we just got married at the courthouse/registry office and focused our budget on the rings)... but the focus exclusively on colorless diamonds reduces creativity, in a way.

After we got married we had a baby, and that's for sure an exercise in brainwashing. ("You don't love your baby if you don't get them product X/Y/Z") All of that stuff is lodged in there very deep, somehow. Engagement/wedding rings have a lot of culture and symbolism wrapped up in them.

I suppose liking colorless stones or yellower stones might be like liking light bulbs that cast different kinds of light.

**P.S. I don't wear CK One *or* JLo Glow. Liking yellow diamonds is my only vice. :roll

 

[Acinom]

Your new e-ring is gorgeous!!!
Sorry about your experience with the lost ring. I am so happy for you that you have a new stunning ring on your finger
Thanks for sharing your experience

 

[Ally T]

@BD626 Thankfully my husband is good with the perfumes as I am an avid wearer (daily - don't even go to the supermarket without a spritz) so he knows what sort of things I like. He usually buys various Bvulgari & Marc Jacobs. He travels a lot with work & dares not go through Duty Free without picking something up, so I'm always well stocked. Payment for mostly being a single parent running a house & every commitment that comes with it

On your other point about what engagement rings we would choose if allowed to pick our own (which I know a lot of women do get involved with), I would NEVER have chosen my original ring. I treasured it, but it wasn't my thing. The pear cut was was my specific choice of cut, but I left the details up to him. It's definitely more me.

And liking yellow diamonds is NOT a vice at all!! Wash your mouth out, young lady! But yeah, those perfumes don't float my boat either

Do you wear a wedding ring? Please post a pic of your full set?

 

[cmd2014]

I’m so sorry about the loss of your original engagement ring. That is so upsetting. I have to admit that am a bit confused as to why your household insurance didn’t help you at all. Did they deny your claim? My policy would require me to work with a jeweler (likely of their choice, as there are some jewelers who specialize in working with insurance companies regarding loss claims) to acquire replacement items “of similar kind” at wholesale prices, rather than paying out cash at retail replacement cost. My impression is that this is standard. I’ve made sure that all of my pieces are carefully appraised so that it would be easier to document what “of similar kind” would actually mean in case of loss. (ETA, I see yours offered that too...was there a reason you didn’t want to go that route?).

As for your new ring, I think the only important thing is whether *you* love and cherish your ring (which you do), not what others think. For valuation for insurance, you would need to get a professional appraisal for insurance purposes (ie replacement value, not inflated retail value).

I also suspect that the vast majority of N-Z diamonds go to industrial purposes.

ETA: I think in terms of choosing rings, there is as much variability as there are people. It’s why I always think that couples should shop together for these things.

 

[tkyasx78]

I am sorry your old ring was lost. I hope your new one brings you many years of happiness!

 

[junebug17]

Your new ring is very pretty! I'm sorry you lost your first one but I'm sure this one will bring you lots of enjoyment!

 

[LLJsmom]

Congratulations on your new ring. The loss of your original must have been very upsetting.

Yes insurance can be sketchy and ridiculous. Hang around and you will see that many here are very careful about insurance provisions and get separate policies for their rings to avoid exactly what you went through. And don’t worry about the color issue. You will find people here who appreciate stones of every color. You will find that many are fanatics about cut, and many will even consider recuts to make a diamond more sparkly. There are plenty that also just love a stone for what it is. Enjoy and learn. Use the educational tools and all the articles and read the threads. There is a lot here. Welcome.

 

[Ally T]

I forgot to add about insurance, actually.

When my first ring was damaged, my house & contents insurers requested me to get 3 independent appraisals to list damage & state that the ring wasn't fixable. The insurance then paid out the current retail value of the piece, as stated on all three appraisals. Obviously this wasn't a vast sum given the age of the ring & the style (invisible set cluster). My husband very generously told me he would match the payout to enable me to get a better ring, given the rising costs of diamonds.

My solitaire & eternity rings are now appraised for the insurance company every December, and they are listed on my policy sperately. Mostly this is because anything with a value of more than £2.5k has to be listed separately, and also because the pear cut is certified & a bit special. For the sake of dropping £50 on a good jeweller to appraise it, it's definitely worth your while getting it done. That way if anything untoward was to happen again, which I hope it never does, the facts & figures are in black & white.

 

[elizat]

I think your new ring is lovely- I am a fan of lower colors as well!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's an indication of size. The modern ring is 1 carat. I have read that the deeper the ring is cut (more like a V) the more sparkly it will be, and while you can have a 1 carat ring that has a large surface area, you will sacrifice sparkle. Thoughts?

Your ring has a good diameter for 1 ct, so I would venture to say it is not too deep. But no, that is not correct about the deeper the cut, the more the sparkle. There are parameters for balance in table, depth, crown and pavilion angles that result in a well cut stone with good sparkle and light return.

Final thoughts for total geeks (i.e. skip if you're not a geek):

So many questions…

1) I know that color has NOTHING to do with quality- it has to do with rarity (which drives price). But certainly it seems to me that jewelers would do well to stock a range of colors as many women would prefer a larger carat size to a small colorless stone. Why is this not the case?

2) I’ve returned to the old shop to inquire as to how their gemologist values diamonds (especially once they’re already set), and they told me they don’t’ have any gemologist on duty! They are both diamond setters. Because most diamonds are not certified, does this mean they just charge what they think people are willing to spend?

3) Most importantly, how do I value my own lovely blonde stone? The diamond colour scale goes from A-Z, but I’ve found it incredibly difficult to find any prices past M… (i.e., Rapaport Report, online, etc). It seems like N-Z diamonds should have a value too.

4) Someone has clearly spent some energy cutting this beautiful stone. That’s more than adequate in every other way. The N-Z range seems to be a bit of a dead place in the market. Is it only after cutting that color is discovered? Where do all the N-Z colored stones go? Presumably if the scale went past Z, colored diamonds would start to raise in price again. Is there a separate scale for colored diamonds?

5) How would all of you maximize value in a ring in this price range?

1) We have seen many women here choose J-K-L color diamonds to get a greater size than they could with higher colors, particularly in antique style cuts. I have an O color diamond which I chose to set in a yellow gold bezel with platinum/diamond halo for contrast, but it is not my engagement ring. We do have a few people with even lower color ideal cut rounds. But they are rare since most jewelers do not stock colors that low. There is still a greater preference for near colorless for diamond engagement rings.

2) They can value the stones any way they wish, which is generally true of all jewelers. Some may use the Rapaport Diamond price guides. People on this forum primarily buy through internet based vendors, and in that respect, it is much easier to compare prices on comparable diamonds. The prices are lower than I could ever find in a local jewelry store, and the selection of well cut diamonds is much greater.

3) If you want to insure your new diamond, you have to find a gemologist who does insurance appraisals. Just be clear from the outset that you do not want an appraisal that is higher than what you paid or you will overpay for your insurance premiums.

4) No, they can approximate the color before the stone is cut. Cutters of diamonds for jewelry are going to buy what sells best. I was told that N and lower are priced about the same. There shouldn't be much price difference in an otherwise equal M and P, for example. We see more antique style diamonds cut in lower colors here.

5) I am not sure that I understand this question. I don't see any way to "maximize value" in any diamond. The value today is basically what you paid today. However, you can expect to lose 25-50% (that's just an example as it depends on the diamond) if you sell tomorrow on the secondary market. Only buy a diamond because you love it and attempt to be sure the price is fair.

I am happy for you that you found a new diamond you love! Your ring is very pretty!

 

[Blingalingaling]

Here I am, at the bottom of your thread...I read it all!!!
So sorry that you lost your stone; what a nightmare! I do think your new one is lovely! More people should choose stones based on what they like and not be as concerned with what's considered to be "the norm" or "more desirable", plus styles change and evolve over time, so what's popular today won't be as popular a few years or even months from now, anyway! High color stones, in general, might always cost more and be rarer, but if you love your stone, it's priceless to you!
I have a "D"-color pear and I love looking at it's bright white sparkle. But I also have an "L"-color emerald cut that has beautifully cut facets and bounces color, in broad flashes, like nobody's business! Two ends of the spectrum but I can appreciate each for their unique qualities!~ (Ok, maybe I even love the "L"-color stone a little bit more, but don't tell anyone!!)
I think it's the actual stone that makes it and I wouldn't let anyone sway me with numbers, letters, blah.. blah..blah...
Enjoy your beautiful ring and wear it well! Please make sure it fits securely and put that stacker up against it, for good measure!
BTW, I LOVE that you've coined, "BLONDE", for your stone's tint! Is it true blondes have more fun??? <3

 

[BD626]

Alex T: You are aware that Bulgari has a gem-oriented series of "limited edition" perfumes, "le gemme"?

 

[Ally T]

Alex T: You are aware that Bulgari has a gem-oriented series of "limited edition" perfumes, "le gemme"?

No, I didn't?! I generally leave it all up to him, but must do some online digging so I can gently guide him