shape
carat
color
clarity

With the help of everyone here, final choice between these 2!

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
6,131
Will you consider this one?
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9787

G VS2 1.25 carat
G is white, VS is eye clean and cut is excellent. Smaller weight but you don’t lose much size due to nice small table and is not cut as deep. You also avoid the SI clarity. Trade in policy is great for HPD, and no fluoro to affect resale price in case of future upgrade.

I personally really like fluoro but you need to be aware that fluoro will affect trade in/future sale price. Also not a fan of H color though I think the fluoro could help the BG diamond look whiter. BGD has has a more restricted trade in policy - need to go two specs up etc.

HPD MEASUREMENTS 6.95 - 7.01 x 4.25 mm
VC Dimensions (LxWxD) 6.97x7.00x4.33
BG Measurements 7.04 x 7.08 x 4.36 mm

Not sure if you have considered CBI diamonds but you can look for Drizzle’s excellent videos that compares them vs other ideals.
 

Steve88

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
160
Will you consider this one?
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9787

G VS2 1.25 carat
G is white, VS is eye clean and cut is excellent. Smaller weight but you don’t lose much size due to nice small table and is not cut as deep. You also avoid the SI clarity. Trade in policy is great for HPD, and no fluoro to affect resale price in case of future upgrade.

I personally really like fluoro but you need to be aware that fluoro will affect trade in/future sale price. Also not a fan of H color though I think the fluoro could help the BG diamond look whiter. BGD has has a more restricted trade in policy - need to go two specs up etc.

HPD MEASUREMENTS 6.95 - 7.01 x 4.25 mm
VC Dimensions (LxWxD) 6.97x7.00x4.33
BG Measurements 7.04 x 7.08 x 4.36 mm

Not sure if you have considered CBI diamonds but you can look for Drizzle’s excellent videos that compares them vs other ideals.

That does hit almost all my check marks but my budget is really tight and the most i wanted to spend was 10.5 or 10.6k as I need to spend another grand on a setting. I was going to somehow push my budget to 11.3 for BGD 1.3 but even that is a bit over my budget :(
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,131
G VS2 ACA 6.95x6.97x4.31 mm $11,057
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm

That’s all for ACA... I’ll look at the other lines

I do think staying at higher color and clarity is important but if cut isn’t such a big deal then I think a non-super ideal could be a better choice.

PS folks tend to lean towards really good cuts but most people don’t know and frankly don’t care so staying at triple X or AGS 0 is fine for most.

Speaking from personal experience as someone who got a fancy cut diamond with low (H) color (my DH tried his best I know but I wished he’d asked me ha). People notice the color and size, and are only just curious about the cut.
 

Steve88

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
160
G VS2 ACA 6.95x6.97x4.31 mm $11,057
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm

That’s all for ACA... I’ll look at the other lines

I do think staying at higher color and clarity is important but if cut isn’t such a big deal then I think a non-super ideal could be a better choice.

PS folks tend to lean towards really good cuts but most people don’t know and frankly don’t care so staying at triple X or AGS 0 is fine for most.

Speaking from personal experience as someone who got a fancy cut diamond with low (H) color (my DH tried his best I know but I wished he’d asked me ha). People notice the color and size, and are only just curious about the cut.

Thanks! I did wonder how big of a difference an ideal cut and a super ideal cut would be. Does HCA scores have anything to do with how well it’s cut?
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
6,131
They do look different. At least the ones I saw locally, the super ideal looks whiter, brighter, bigger, etc vs ideal due to excellent cut. (Smaller table, less deep etc).

HCA is just an elimination tool I think. But u should definitely use it.

No new links as nothing that blew my socks off or I find comfortable recommending without qualms. I think you already have many recommendations. You just have to decide which ones you are most comfortable with.

I’ll stay away from strong fluoro unless the vendor is trusted to provide reliable opinion as to whether there is haziness.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
VC hits all your marks for size, color, no fluor and budget. Plus it's a super ideal. Not to mention that SI1 cert is cleaner than most VS2's. I can't believe you're still on the fence with this.

BGD has fluor and is H colored. "Her friends" were nagging you to death about both, so unless you plan on growing a backbone and standing up to them, this is unacceptable to you.

HPD is a nice find. Good color and higher clarity to fulfill your internal need for that. While less weight, it has the same dimensions. Many people prefer their proprietary cut to other super ideals.

Adiamor is an entirely different caliber of stone. You are buying a stone w/o the same cut & symmetrical precision so it will not perform as well. The trade-in program requires you to spend 2x as much as the original purchase. Oh yeah, it has STRONG fluor. :wall:
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,791
Thanks! I did wonder how big of a difference an ideal cut and a super ideal cut would be. Does HCA scores have anything to do with how well it’s cut?

HCA is just an elimination tool. Also, it only works on GIA certified stones. AGS certified stones have 3D modeling and computer generated ASET's that assign a cut quality on the certification itself, and exceed the capabilities of the HCA tool.

FYI, all the super ideals have AGS certification as they are a superior certification.

That said, when using the HCA on GIA stones, the preference is for a stone that scores 2 or less on the HCA. Scoring 1.4 is no better than 1.9. Think of it like a pass/fail grade. That said, a few outlier cases exists where a stone scores >2 and is still gorgeous. That's the exception to the rule, and not the norm though.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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VC hits all your marks for size, color, no fluor and budget. Plus it's a super ideal. Not to mention that SI1 cert is cleaner than most VS2's. I can't believe you're still on the fence with this.

BGD has fluor and is H colored. "Her friends" were nagging you to death about both, so unless you plan on growing a backbone and standing up to them, this is unacceptable to you.

HPD is a nice find. Good color and higher clarity to fulfill your internal need for that. While less weight, it has the same dimensions. Many people prefer their proprietary cut to other super ideals.

Yup... I actually did look at the other stones with excellent HCAs and as mentioned nothing that I felt comfortable recommending based on their trade in policies, brand (haven’t heard of before) or customer service.

I really think the HPD is a great find...

Anyway ultimately you get what you pay for. You just have to decide if you want to pay for a better quality diamond or a normal one...

Having seen normal ideals vs super ideals irl, I do see the difference... eg a smaller carat super ideal could face up the same as a bigger ideal due to better cut... so if you decide to go for a bigger carat weight ideal instead of a super ideal, do look at the measurements and not just the carat weight.

Do also note that super ideals face up whiter. Ideals don’t have that effect.

Good luck!
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 20, 2017
Messages
3,700
BGD has fluor and is H colored. "Her friends" were nagging you to death about both, so unless you plan on growing a backbone and standing up to them, this is unacceptable to you.
:wall:

I think it's possible and in the spirit of pricescope, not to mention just plain old good manners, to recommend quality stones without insulting the op. Why you continue to downplay op's priorities and cultural concerns is baffling.
 

carbonfan

Brilliant_Rock
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Jul 12, 2015
Messages
1,079
Of the choices that have been previously mentioned, I think that your best bets are the stones from Victor Canera and HPD. Both are absolutely beautiful stones with similar diameters (right at 7mm), and the trade up policies are fantastic with both of these vendors. Victor's stone is an incredibly clean SI1, and has fewer inclusions under the table, but the choice is really up to you.

If it is possible to order both stones and compare them in person I would definitely recommend doing this, but if not, perhaps you could request a video of each of them. Regardless, I truly don't think you can go wrong with either of these stones; they look spectacular!!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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27,242
@Steve88
Have you talked with your partner about the diamond at all? I know some couples feel very strongly about keeping it a surprise.

Given how many (very strong) opinions seem to be playing into your choice... If you haven’t already, and you feel comfortable doing so, may I recommend that you talk with your SO (a private conversation with her and her only) before either falling on the sword of cultural influence or deliberately eschewing it? We’ve heard a lot about what her friends expect - it could be that those are her desires proxied through other mouths, it could be that she has different priorities, it could be that she hasn’t really even thought about her own priorities...

You’re spending a lot of money. The only people you have to please are yourself and your partner. It is completely understandable if “pleasing yourself and your partner” means “also pleasing your/her nearest and dearest”, but if not everyone wants the same thing... nearest and dearest come second to you and your SO.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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That does hit almost all my check marks but my budget is really tight and the most i wanted to spend was 10.5 or 10.6k as I need to spend another grand on a setting. I was going to somehow push my budget to 11.3 for BGD 1.3 but even that is a bit over my budget :(

HPD MEASUREMENTS 6.95 - 7.01 x 4.25 mm
VC Dimensions (LxWxD) 6.97x7.00x4.33
BG Measurements 7.04 x 7.08 x 4.36 mm
WF Measurements 6.95x6.97x4.31 mm

Ok I looked at these 4 again and gave them each some serious thought...

- No for BGD as it is H color and with fluoro. H is low color (by Asian culture) and fluoro you had mentioned is also considered a no-no.
- No for VC as it is SI1 grading which is considered low quality in Asian culture.

I’m using my “Asian” perspective to filter out both. Ultimately despite what other PS-ers may think, I think it is important that your fiancé can wear her ring with pride... lower color and clarity may cause difficulties. I actually totally understand where her friends are coming from in their comments to you as if I’m a good friend I’ll ask for the best for her which DEFINITELY means good color and clarity in Asian culture. They are good friends and have her back so no don’t get rid of them haha. [no offense meant so I’ll just put it out here but H and below color is considered yellowish and SI grades are seen with horror at least in my circle. I think it’s hard for some folks to understand but that’s just how it is.]

Which leaves... WF and HPD. Both are great super ideals with excellent trade in policies. They also have certain boasting rights in terms of cut (I think), which can help to offset their relatively lower color (against Asian standards!).

Both have better clarity. Size diff is negligible vs VC and BGD. IMO between the two the price diff is negligible but the WF one wins out as it’s cheaper than the VC one (which you were willing to consider) while HPD is slightly more expensive.

Am assuming the cut is not a major factor? There is much debate over which brand has a better cut and I haven’t seen them side by side but based on what I read online, CBI diamonds are cut more consistently to certain specs which gives them a “high contrast” look. Very much up to individual pref if you like that I guess.

I’ll advise you to quickly reserve both, give yourself some cooling off period and stay off Pricescope for a while you think about it. Hope you come back and let us know what you choose! Totally fine if you choose to go with something else altogether. We don’t get commission for any recommendations anyway. :lol:

For your consideration below...

G VS2 CBI ACA 1.28 carat 6.95x6.97x4.31 mm $11,057
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm

G VS2 1.25 carat 6.95 - 7.01 x 4.25 mm $11,660
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9787
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,791
I think it's possible and in the spirit of pricescope, not to mention just plain old good manners, to recommend quality stones without insulting the op. Why you continue to downplay op's priorities and cultural concerns is baffling.

Hmmm. Okay. Have you read the other 2 threads? While I may not personally agree there was a lot of discussion about the H and fluor. He eliminated both and said the friends made his life miserable for considering them. Choices for G+ and no fluor was both given to accommodate cultural and personal preferences.

Yes I was shocked. And after all the hoopla in the last two threads, I stand by my statement that for the Blue to work he, and his girl, has to be willing to stand up to the friends scrutiny. He did not give the impression that was a reality, which is fine too. But why put himself through the hell of he can't do it?

The irony is the friends making his life miserable has G and H diamonds. :lol:
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I don’t disagree with anything you said @icy_jade. I just disagree with the suggestion to prioritize ubiquitous cultural mores over identifying SO’s personal priorities (most likely IMO they will match what her friends are saying). It would be akin to PSers telling an American suitor to buy the biggest diamond he can without first finding out what his partner wants, because Americans are stereotypically size-obsessed (which is true).
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
6,131
The irony is the friends making his life miserable has G and H diamonds. :lol:

And maybe they didn’t have a choice about those diamonds as their SO did not ask or consider cultural differences?

If those friends are asking for the crappiest smallest diamonds I’ll think they need to be ditched but otherwise they are just looking out for their friend in asking for the “best” that they know of. You seem to be assuming the worse of them.

Different perspectives.

I don’t disagree with anything you said @icy_jade. I just disagree with the suggestion to prioritize ubiquitous cultural mores over identifying SO’s personal priorities. It would be akin to PSers telling an American suitor to buy the biggest diamond he can without first finding out what his partner wants, because Americans are stereotypically size-obsessed (which is true).

I’m assuming that those much slammed gf’s know what they are talking about if they are truly the gf’s best friends. Maybe incorrect but hey OP did think it’s important to consult them right?

I’m emphasizing cultural priorities as I feel like it’s a bit hard for some PS-ers to understand and there is this pressure on people who come here for advice to always go for bigger, lower color and clarity diamonds as those are acceptable by American standards. And if they don’t go that route they are weaklings for succumbing to peer/cultural pressure. :roll2: and omg crazy Asians!!!

So thought I’ll take the other route for a more balanced discussion... considering my personal choice of a G SI2 diamond I’m really not a stereotypical Asian diamond buyer... :P2
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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The only thing I might say @icyjade is that VC SI1 is exceptionally clean. I'd prefer a VS2+ myself as it's a mind clean thing for me. But I would jump on that SI1 in a heartbeat.

Unless Asian culture happens to carry certs, loupes or scopes with them to inspect clarity on the street, I don't think the SI1 will be an issue unless its merely the fact it says SI1 on the cert. In which case I think its shameful to be in that position but I understand its about fitting in.

Hey @Steve88, do you live in the USA and surrounded by Asian friends or do you live in an Asian country?
 

Steve88

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
160
Hey thanks for everyone’s help! I’ve gotten amazing suggestions from @sledge and @icy_jade

At the moment it feels very overwhelming with all the new information I’m getting and I think I’ll try to find something in the middle of what I want/fits my budget and my gfs friends strict criteria.

I’ll look hard at all the diamond suggestions that were given in the previous threads and go from there! If anyone comes by a diamond that you would suggest feel free to keep posting on this thread. I appreciate everyone here that’s helped me through this excruciating process! :cry2:
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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Hmmm. Okay. Have you read the other 2 threads? While I may not personally agree there was a lot of discussion about the H and fluor. He eliminated both and said the friends made his life miserable for considering them. Choices for G+ and no fluor was both given to accommodate cultural and personal preferences.

Yes I was shocked. And after all the hoopla in the last two threads, I stand by my statement that for the Blue to work he, and his girl, has to be willing to stand up to the friends scrutiny. He did not give the impression that was a reality, which is fine too. But why put himself through the hell of he can't do it?

The irony is the friends making his life miserable has G and H diamonds. :lol:

Yes I have followed these threads and my point is that you are being disrespectful. Where I come from (which I suspect is similar to where you are from) telling someone to "grow a backbone" is not exactly being genteel.
 

icy_jade

Ideal_Rock
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Good luck!!

FWIW diamonds (especially those posted here) can move fast so do reserve them first anyway if you haven’t done so already.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Hey thanks for everyone’s help! I’ve gotten amazing suggestions from @sledge and @icy_jade

At the moment it feels very overwhelming with all the new information I’m getting and I think I’ll try to find something in the middle of what I want/fits my budget and my gfs friends strict criteria.

I’ll look hard at all the diamond suggestions that were given in the previous threads and go from there! If anyone comes by a diamond that you would suggest feel free to keep posting on this thread. I appreciate everyone here that’s helped me through this excruciating process! :cry2:

Sorry. I do understand you are in a tough spot. I worded it badly earlier as @ceg pointed out, but you really do have to get to a point where you do one of the following:
  • Listen to the friends, which means increasing color & clarity and decreasing size. This may not be horrible. You could always use a halo setting to make it appear larger. Just a thought.
  • Talk to your SO and determine what is most important to her. The friends could be right or wrong, but ultimately, what makes BOTH you happy is what matters. As influential as the friends may be, they aren't contributing dollars to the diamond purchase and you need to prioritize you and your SO above all else.
  • You don't talk to the SO, and do what you want. The most risky of all, but if you feel you know her better than her friends it may pay off for you.
Once you figure this out, I think you can get to a decision on a diamond fairly quick. I am sorry you are struggling and I do want the best for you and your girl. While we may all have different opinions here, you should definitely keep asking questions and pushing to find the "perfect stone" for you and your situation.

So don't just go away. Myself and others will continue to help you, regardless which method you choose to deploy.


Yes I have followed these threads and my point is that you are being disrespectful. Where I come from (which I suspect is similar to where you are from) telling someone to "grow a backbone" is not exactly being genteel.

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful. That was not my intent. I tried to re-word it better in the above reply directly to him. I sometimes forget I work with (mostly) guys that appreciate hard truths, but sometimes I can be rough to outsiders.


Good luck!!

FWIW diamonds (especially those posted here) can move fast so do reserve them first anyway if you haven’t done so already.

This is always true. Put the diamonds on reserve while you are thinking and cut them loose when it's appropriate. If you never get the feeling that a diamond is "the one" then that's okay too. Let the holds expire and keep looking.

Should we look for some F+ and VS2+ stones within an $11k budget? If so, do you want GIA XXX or a true super ideal?
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Ah, so judgemental.

I give up, and am stepping out of this thread. Good luck @Steve88, there are plenty of folks here to help you.

FYI, it wasn't judgmental. The sad reality is that SI1 is better than most VS2's. If no designation existed, it would be fine.
 

Steve88

Shiny_Rock
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Jul 10, 2018
Messages
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I give up, and am stepping out of this thread. Good luck @Steve88, there are plenty of folks here to help you.

FYI, it wasn't judgmental. The sad reality is that SI1 is better than most VS2's. If no designation existed, it would be fine.

I’m not offended at all guys so please don’t worry. I’m trying to take as many suggestions as I can since this is probably the biggest purchase I’ll make in a while.

@sledge please don’t go anywhere! You’ve probably been the most help since I joined this forum.

and yes F/ any V clarity with gia xxx would be great! The search continues along with all the suggestions posted above..
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Never mind.

@Steve88 you're a class act.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I am Asian and I wouldn't feel ashamed to wear an H VS stone. Yeah, if I had a lot of $$$ money then I'll be rocking an F VS1 stone.
 
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