Update on the Rubies.........

[Bron357]

I wanted to wait until I had definitive results but it isn’t that easy it seems.
I have my lovely gem microscope now and have spent hours and hours looking at these lovely red gems and I’m still not sure on most.
Some yes. The 6.19 carat with the nasty chip has enough inclusions (veils, needles and crystal shapes) to ID as ruby. It definitely needs a recut but because of the veils I’m not sure if it’s possible. I hope so.
Likewise the 1.70, 1.45, 1.28 and 1.14 are sufficiently included to show typical ruby inclusions.
The 2.19, which is a deeper red, is harder. No veils but some crystal inclusions and some needles but I’m still not sure.
Likewise some of the emerald cuts (2.48,2.94,2.86,2.01,2.10,2.12 and 1.21) I’m not sure on.
For those who know a bit about synthetics, despite my looking under Darkfield / Overhead/ Lighfield and Diffuse Lightfield and under magnification up to 90x I still can’t see Curved Striae, curved colour zoning, gas bubbles or any flux like inclusions or hexagonal metallic platelets. I’ve even used the less scientific methods (comparing with a known synthetic ruby) - under UV light yes they are less “orangeish” than the known synthetic and with the Presidum - the synthetic ruby is very high in the sapphire range whereas the “others” are all in the sapphire range but at a lower reading.
I haven’t checked the Refractive Index (apparently flux will alter the result) because I don’t have that equipment and I haven’t tried Immersion or crossed polars viewing under the microscope (again I don’t have that equipment).
I’ve ordered a 2x Barlow lens to get magnification up to 180x.
Yes, I could take them along and get them professionally assessed but I just want to be more certain first. I don’t want to look stupid and be really embarrassed when told (with distain) “No (you foolish woman) these are OBVIOUSLY fake”.
Besides, things are really crazy here on the home front right now. My mum broke her ankle badly last year and now has a bone infection while my terminally ill father (stage 4 Melanoma) just had a hip replacement, like last Thursday! And it’s just me who lives in NSW so it’s me who has to manage the “oldies”!.
It is really hard to believe that some 30 carats of rubies (plus another 50 carats of sapphires) albeit with chips and flaws could slip unnoticed into a box with a stack of other gems and jewellers bits and pieces to be sold at auction for a few hundred dollars?.
Yes, the Mr was a high end jeweller who died back in the 1990s ( their magnificent house, totally run down and unrenovated still sold last year for just under $5 million after the Mrs died) and yes the other gems are natural, real gems and yes all the white metal pieces were platinum as I suspected (and why I bought the lot) but how on earth did someone not notice this.
So yeah, I’m still just totally incredulous that all this fell into my lap.
Rubies anyone ?

 

[stracci2000]

@Bron357 , your eyes must be hurting by now! These are gorgeous stones. You did good when you bought them all!
I admire your tenacity!

 

[Bluegemz]

Omg how exciting! What a treasure!

 

[digdeep]

Bron...........you may already know how people 'did not notice', because they are color blind and assume that everything with colors is 'cheap or glass'.............at least that's my theory! Keep having fun with these gems and good on you for caring for your 'oldies'--in some cultures it's an honor and certainly a growth opportunity...........we all want that personal care connection when we get to that place and time!

 

[Bron357]

I found a copy of the actual auction listing. As you can see there is nothing evident in their photo that anything “special” lurks, oh, and there were no garnets at all in the lot! Someone saw red stones and called them garnets, as if you would store anything of value like this!
Wrong apparently.

 

[whitewave]

I’m loving this story! Keep us updated.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

So exciting! I am partial to 2.12. Honestly- when I die my kids would sell my gemstones as goodness knows what. For example- an old stock Mahenge spinel would be sold as "pink stone" and a Burma vivid spinel would be sold as a "red stone.". God love them but they aren't interested in gemstones and they don't need the money. So I could see how a family would sell gemstones at less than they are worth. With that in mind I would send one of your rubies to AGL to get an idea of what you are working with.

Also- I want to say that I love and admire your devotion to your parents.

 

[Bron357]

So exciting! I am partial to 2.12. Honestly- when I die my kids would sell my gemstones as goodness knows what. For example- an old stock Mahenge spinel would be sold as "pink stone" and a Burma vivid spinel would be sold as a "red stone.". God love them but they aren't interested in gemstones and they don't need the money. So I could see how a family would sell gemstones at less than they are worth. With that in mind I would send one of your rubies to AGL to get an idea of what you are working with.

Also- I want to say that I love and admire your devotion to your parents.

Thank you.
My parents are very draining at the moment but I’m very fortunate to still have them around. My brother lives on the other side of Australia and my sister lives in France so it’s just me (and DH and DD).
My dad in particular is such a warrior. He’s been “dying” with metastasis to lungs, liver and kidney for over 12 months now (aged 82) and just had a full hip replacement 3 days ago AND wants to drive his car home to Bowral (that’s an 1 1/2 drive) tomorrow! No way!
With the gems, the auctioneers were just advised to “clear the whole house” as when the Mrs passed away (some months earlier) their children had already been through the house and removed all the “good stuff”.
The Mr, who had been a jeweler, died a lot earlier - 1990s apparently. In going through all the old wardrobes, chests and cupboards plus the garage and his old workshop the Auctioneers found various old cardboard boxes (complete with dust and desiccated dead insects - ugh) with all sorts of old jewellers equipment and containers and rusty tins (most couldn’t even be opened so they just rattled them to see if they were empty or not). So they just put piles of stuff together and sold them as is, whatever they are.
The lot I bought I bought because I saw the white metal ring heads (the prong bit) and knowing that they weren’t likely to be silver or base metal I took a chance they were gold (actually 48 grams of platinum). I bought the other lot (another tatty cardboard box with more dead insects and dust) for the small bits of opal rough, agate, coral, etc and broken pearl strands for my crafting.
Yeah, so that’s how I got more loose gems than you can poke a stick at!
And apart from what any or all of them might be worth, I have had SO MUCH FUN playing with them.
AND Im now formally studying gemology- they inspired me to follow up on an ancient childhood dream of mine - so how good is that!

 

[leukolenos]

Bron, this is such an incredible story and it has been so much fun to watch it unfold for you. What an amazing find! I’m with the others in that it seems possible that it could’ve been written off as cheap, glass whatever.

I’m very sorry to hear about your parents- caring for the aged can be so difficult and it seems that many underestimate the toll it can take on the carers. My mom also had melanoma and it is just the pits.
I am so impressed that you are managing to juggle it along with your new studies! Hang in there, friend!

Keep us posted on the stones! I can’t wait to find out more!

 

[prs]

If the 6.19 ct is a natural ruby then the I think the odds are very much in favour of all the rest being natural rubies. Would a high end jeweler have dabbled in synthetic stones back in those days? I suspect not.

 

[Nosean]

Maybe this is helpful...

http://www.gemoaid.com/universal-microscope-upgrade-kit-special-price

Was introduced on another forum for gems...(gem equipment)

 

[Sunstorm]

Bron, this is very exciting! So coool that because of your auction wins you started studying gemology.

I think that acquiring CS is "easier" than diamonds like this especially if uncerted, I had a similar story. What I do in cases like this is pick say two of the best and get those certed. That is a start.

Also do not be embarrassed to take them in. That would be the first step. Pick a reputable appraiser and just have them identify, give you an opinion. It should not cost much and why should it reflect badly on you? You do not have the equipment and you just started studying.

If you wanted to do preliminary identification, your first step after louping really should be the RI. That is what I always checked in case of CS first. Without that you really cannot know if some of the stones are garnets. Top row colors could indicate garnet but to be honest, due to the inclusions you are describing, it does not sound likely. They sound like very typical ruby inclusions also present in the stones in my lot.

So, I think you are ok to take them in somewhere first, unless you want to invest in a refractometer with fluid. If you plan on pursuing CS, might be worth it. Online you can get it actually quite inexpensive.

Alternatively, I am not sure if this is an option to you but I used to take CS into class for identification when I was in school. A professor can definitely confirm your findings.

Some of those emerald cuts are quite nice looking worth further looking into.

I cannot help you a lot on how to send them in from Australia, you may want to talk to a jeweler/appraiser there about it. So another vote for taking them in. They will know the way from there and also whether it is worth it. If they are quality rubies, especially untreated, it would probably be worth sending some of them in at the very least, perhaps through them.

Congratulations on your find!

 

[suzanne2]

This is so exciting! I have my eye on the 2.86 and can't wait until you have them all figured out! Maybe then I can get my greedy hands on one of them...

Also, I second the refractometer. My husband surprised me a year ago with a nice microscope, refractometer and a bag of little stones for identification. (It was the kind of gift that I didn't know I wanted). I've been slowly working my way through the bag and finding that the RI is the first step after looking through the microscope. And now I spend hours on the Lotus site, staring at inclusions...
I have the little portable one with a built in light. It retails here in the U.S. for around ninety dollars - not cheap but not bad. I tried looking on Amazon AU and couldn't find anything except the professional one for $500.00. EEK!!! Maybe I can't see all of the results on the au site? Maybe because it's upside down? GROAN...
Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help you find one please let me know. They really are useful. I can ship you one from here if you like. I'm so excited for you!

 

[PrecisionGem]

You may want to pick up this piece of software:

Gemology Tools Pro

Really helps you identify stones by entering information you know about the stone, then the software narrows down what it could possibly be.

A refractometer is also something you really should have. You can learn more about a stone than just it's refractive index with one. You can also find the stones Birefringence, optic sign and optic character. On my site, on the Downloads page is a spreadsheet I made where you enter your measurements with the refractometer in, and it will calculate these other values for you. It's a free download for anyone who is interested.

 

[Bron357]

This is so exciting! I have my eye on the 2.86 and can't wait until you have them all figured out! Maybe then I can get my greedy hands on one of them...

Also, I second the refractometer. My husband surprised me a year ago with a nice microscope, refractometer and a bag of little stones for identification. (It was the kind of gift that I didn't know I wanted). I've been slowly working my way through the bag and finding that the RI is the first step after looking through the microscope. And now I spend hours on the Lotus site, staring at inclusions...
I have the little portable one with a built in light. It retails here in the U.S. for around ninety dollars - not cheap but not bad. I tried looking on Amazon AU and couldn't find anything except the professional one for $500.00. EEK!!! Maybe I can't see all of the results on the au site? Maybe because it's upside down? GROAN...
Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help you find one please let me know. They really are useful. I can ship you one from here if you like. I'm so excited for you!

Thank you.
Here’s another pic of the one you like. It’s got veils but they are more at either end so hard to catch. There’s a couple of crystals also. Btw, and Kenny will be cross, I just use an iPhone - point and click. I’ve got no idea when it comes to taking photos.
It’s definately a bright red with slight purple tones, doesn’t sort of photo like my eyes see.
And I’ve just noticed, see how the bottom angle facets aren’t exactly the same as the other side. So either this is a really rubbish cut synthetic or it’s been cut this way because of what the cutter was working with. Hmmm

 

[Bron357]

Maybe this is helpful...

http://www.gemoaid.com/universal-microscope-upgrade-kit-special-price

Was introduced on another forum for gems...(gem equipment)

Thank you. I just messaged them, hopefully they’ll ship to Australia.

 

[Sunstorm]

Bron, that is very pretty. I would love to see pix of some of the others. You got some beauties in there.

If you are noticing natural inclusions, synth is not so likely. We will see I guess but old rubies, well among my lot there are many way wonky cut ones as well. They can still be untreated natural like mine. I find your story exciting so keep updating us with news.

 

[Maja]

@Bron357, what a fascinating story, it's like an adventure story from long ago, you dragged home a chest of precious jewels and metals from the dragon's cave, kind of! I love the rubies you posted and can't wait to hear the next chapter,

Also, if you ever want to hear more about PSers and how they deal with their aging parents/similar, try this on Hangout https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-thread-for-those-caring-for-aging-parents-etc.216887/ You'll be amazed at the strength of those who care for their loved ones in final years. They were all very kind to me when I posted there, and they all understood what I was going through.

 

[suzanne2]

Thank you.
Here’s another pic of the one you like. It’s got veils but they are more at either end so hard to catch. There’s a couple of crystals also. Btw, and Kenny will be cross, I just use an iPhone - point and click. I’ve got no idea when it comes to taking photos.
It’s definately a bright red with slight purple tones, doesn’t sort of photo like my eyes see.
And I’ve just noticed, see how the bottom angle facets aren’t exactly the same as the other side. So either this is a really rubbish cut synthetic or it’s been cut this way because of what the cutter was working with. Hmmm

Whatever it is, it's quite nice. I see the veils and the inclusion at 9:00 yet I think the color is really pretty. Thanks for the additional picture!!

 

[Bron357]

Bron, that is very pretty. I would love to see pix of some of the others. You got some beauties in there.

If you are noticing natural inclusions, synth is not so likely. We will see I guess but old rubies, well among my lot there are many way wonky cut ones as well. They can still be untreated natural like mine. I find your story exciting so keep updating us with news.

Thank you Sunstorm for your advice.
And yes, the first thing I did was test them with the Presidum, expecting to see Garnet and instead getting Sapphire. And that’s when the investigations started.
I took a small ruby into class (along with the 2 blue and yellow sapphires) to ask the teacher and he confirmed, “yes, but I’m not here to provide everyone with “free” appraisals on their gems, so no more ok”. Quite a few in the class have been dragging in “Alexandrite” etc for his opinion.
I’ve got the name of a lab here in Sydney and I am also most fortunate that Doug Menadue of Bespoke Gems is here in Sydney. He can do recuts and other PSers speak highly of his skills.
With the big 6.19 carat, I’m tempted just to have it “tidied up” not only to preserve carat weight but because it’s its history and I believe it is an older ruby. I can’t help think (maybe wistfully) that it’s very like the Carmen Lucia ruby both in colour and “glow”.
All this has to wait a few weeks as I’m on call with the parents and I’d hate to make an appt with Doug only to have to cancel - not good manners!
Hubby is like “sell sell sell” and I’m like “so just how many 20 point carat diamonds are needed to go around.....hmmmm.......yellow gold I think....”

 

[ringo865]

Wow bron that is the total best auction find ever!! And that you're studying gemologist makes it even better!

Wow. They are beauties!

 

[suzanne2]

I can’t help think (maybe wistfully) that it’s very like the Carmen Lucia ruby both in colour and “glow”.

Your pic is fuzzy, probably because you were trying to get the 'real' color, but damn, they are very close.

 

[leukolenos]

Your pic is fuzzy, probably because you were trying to get the 'real' color, but damn, they are very close.

Stunning color!

 

[ringo865]

I'm drawn to the 1.7

 

[ringo865]

Don't get me wrong, that huge one is TDF, but I already have a mortgage

 

[Sunstorm]

Bron that big one looks pretty amazing, try getting some sharp photos. Hint of pink/purple yes but otherwise close to pigeon blood. Of course only seeing it on a monitor does not help.

Which stone did your teacher see and how much did they evaluate it? If that large one is indeed a natural ruby that color, it is an amazing find. It is a shame that the chip is there.

The chip is pretty substantial and taking a part of it out would not be an option. Getting a wonky cut IMHO is not a good idea either. Complete recutting will result in substantial weight loss but perhaps still over 5, it is chancy but leaving it in is not really an option if you can get a clean stone whether you plan to sell it or keep it. You do not want the stone to split in half.

You really need to take it in and others too to a cutter/appraiser, one recommended in your area. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, you have good reason to believe that they are natural rubies, so this is your first step and as a student I took stones in too sometimes. Get started there, recut, then cert. I recommend you to get a report prior to setting because I also made the mistake not to in some cases but if you ever plan to sell and you never know that, you will need a report and unsetting, resetting endlessly is not something I recommend especially if you make a gorgeous piece.

 

[Keeliamira]

OMG what a fantastic story! Congrats on having so much fun with your find. Anything else is gravy I can’t wait to hear more...

 

[Bron357]

I'm drawn to the 1.7

The 1.70 is a bit pinker but has been confirmed (by my Gemmologst lecturer) as a Ruby, you can see the small crystal inclusions if you look closely.

 

[Miki Moto]

Please keep us posted on the 6ct and how it turns out. I hope you will send it to AGL after it’s recut for a Prestige Origin report. That will confirm the country of origin (Burmese?) and also any treatments. That red is a nice red and the size is terrific. Hard to find anything that looks good over 4ct from what I have seen.

Good luck!

 

[Bron357]

Bron that big one looks pretty amazing, try getting some sharp photos. Hint of pink/purple yes but otherwise close to pigeon blood. Of course only seeing it on a monitor does not help.

Which stone did your teacher see and how much did they evaluate it? If that large one is indeed a natural ruby that color, it is an amazing find. It is a shame that the chip is there.

The chip is pretty substantial and taking a part of it out would not be an option. Getting a wonky cut IMHO is not a good idea either. Complete recutting will result in substantial weight loss but perhaps still over 5, it is chancy but leaving it in is not really an option if you can get a clean stone whether you plan to sell it or keep it. You do not want the stone to split in half.

You really need to take it in and others too to a cutter/appraiser, one recommended in your area. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, you have good reason to believe that they are natural rubies, so this is your first step and as a student I took stones in too sometimes. Get started there, recut, then cert. I recommend you to get a report prior to setting because I also made the mistake not to in some cases but if you ever plan to sell and you never know that, you will need a report and unsetting, resetting endlessly is not something I recommend especially if you make a gorgeous piece.

Many thanks for your advice.
I took in the 1.70 and 1.14.
I’ve sort of put myself in an awkward position. Taking in the 2 x 3 carat blues and the 5.6 yellow, the .90 Alexandrite plus the two smaller rubies was bad enough.
“Oooooooo, how much would they be worth? ” say a fellow student.
“Probably over $20,000” says the lecturer, and to me “you really shouldn’t be bringing in such valuable gems to class”.
A part of me then wanted to say “oh, no, these arent the valuable ones!”
I’m a bit of a smart Alec I know!
So yes, I will see Doug in the next few weeks as some of them have small nicks which will need addressing. Hopefully the big one is a recut candidate and he can work magic and still keep it over 5 carats.
Then I’ll send them to Gem Studies Laboratory, it’s all we seem to have here in Sydney, but I don’t know if he can do “origin” as well.
I tried getting more close up photos (yay me with an iPhone and zero skill) of the chip and while it seems fairly big, it is actually rather shallow across the facet and girdle. So maybe a little trim polish around the girdle and a modest refacet each end (luckily rubies aren’t cut for dispersion like diamonds) and not too much weight will be lost.