My Experience Buying an Uncertified Diamond from Grace of JbG

[MrBlueshift]

This is a continuation of my other thread, with a slightly more descriptive title, since the vendor is no longer anonymous. I tried to just have the other title changed but the moderators must be really busy right now, so instead I've started this new thread.

Other relevant threads:
pearaffair review 1
pearaffair review 2

Diamondseeker2006: I don’t feel wise! But I do try my best to be understanding and reasonable. Thank you, I hope she’ll add some nice pieces to her collection over time.

Sean_T: Good question; I’m fairly new to this scene so maybe a more experienced poster can answer your question.

Jimmianne: Thank you for stopping by to share your experiences. I’m sorry you went through that. I can understand your frustration since your purchase was contingent upon the vendor’s upgrade guarantee. I think if any vendor gives their word, they ought to stand by it. Otherwise, for the sake of their credibility, they’d do best to remain silent instead of dishing out empty promises. I’m happy your experience with Grace was a positive one and that you are pleased with the stone you bought. You must have felt even better when two separate jewelry professionals complimented your diamond! Was your stone GIA graded at the time of your purchase? The one I bought wasn’t and up until it was graded, I had every confidence in Grace’s estimate.

SimoneDi: Thank you for providing the link to pearaffair’s thread.

pearaffair: I’m glad you took the trouble of writing an in-depth review. I read some parts of it to my wife and she said she basically felt exactly as you did during your experience. She hopes you’ve found a beautiful piece of jewelry to replace the pendant.

------------

I was sorry to see that others encountered similar issues with Grace. I read Grace’s excellent post (was glad that in this instance she addressed the OP’s concerns) and I can appreciate her situation, as it must be challenging to grow a personal business. I really do, but how should I weigh my sympathies for a vendor’s growing pains against the expectations I have as a customer? If a vendor continues to make the same errors then perhaps what they’re doing simply isn’t working, and a “walk before one can run” approach might be helpful in order for them to nail down those vital elements of customer service which are at the core of any successful business, such as responsiveness, communication and follow-through. Suggestions on ways to improve ethics? Well that’s something entirely different and well beyond my range, so I won’t even try to go there.

I just read a different thread about excellent customer service provided by Whiteflash and thought, now that’s how it’s done!

When my wife sends me out to buy a new TV or gadget, her expectation isn’t that I’ll return home in tears, miserable from my shopping experience! Unfortunately I’ve been conditioned to brace myself for tears and misery whenever my wife buys jewelry from an online vendor; communication issues, delays, excuses and mediocre finished products seem to be widespread, not just a JbG thing. I think it’s within reason to expect an overall pleasant experience when purchasing goods, especially pricey ones like jewelry.

 

[MrBlueshift]

marymm: Again I really appreciate your comment. Thank you, my wife's already working on one new project and I'm sure it will turn out really well!

 

[HappyNewLife]

Sucks this happened to you . Excellent customer service should be a given, but it's not unfortunately. I had a bit of a similar experience- wasn't given the time of day by a vendor either.

What are you guys going to do with your diamond search going forward? Are you on the lookout for another unique stone like that?

 

[PintoBean]

Unfortunately I’ve been conditioned to brace myself for tears and misery whenever my wife buys jewelry from an online vendor; communication issues, delays, excuses and mediocre finished products seem to be widespread, not just a JbG thing. I think it’s within reason to expect an overall pleasant experience when purchasing goods, especially pricey ones like jewelry.

This is unacceptable! Buying bling should be fun and exciting and the delivered product should bring tears of JOY!!!!

Whenever she's ready to begin a new project we are all here to support and guide and advocate for her on the forum. Also, many of us can be reached offline through Loupetroop if she prefers to keep her project off the forum. I'm sorry for you too, MrBlueshift. It should be just as exciting for you too.

 

[Sean_T]

I am sorry you had to go through this. Not condoning the vendor's action but there is a reason why people choose to buy GIA/AGS certed diamond even with trusted vendors.

It is great knowing the exact details of such an expensive purchase.

I hope your wife gets a ring she loves.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I am glad that you started both threads, MrBlueshift. While I understand that things don't always go right with vendor, and there can be mis-communications, your experience takes it to a whole new level.
I have come really close to purchasing from JbG, but I will no longer even consider it. I have bought a 4 uncerted stones in the past. One was graded lower in clarity than what was stated. I loved the ring so it wasn't a terribly big deal to me, but I don't think I will do it again. I am sorry that you and your wife have had to go through this awful experience. Hopefully, you will have better ones going forward. There are some really good online vendors but it just takes one bad experience for someone to want to toss out dealing with all of them.

 

[MrBlueshift]

HappyNewLife: Yeah I read through your thread, and it felt very familiar. I get mad when a vendor reneges on a stated policy that was partly why the purchase was made in the first place. Either by changing their tune or by ignoring the customer and hoping they go away. And I hate being strung along by a vendor. Anyway for our diamond search going forward, we're not quite sure yet. I contacted Whiteflash (and received great customer service) to get more information about their upgrade policy. Right now I'm not sure if my wife will want a modern cut or if she might decide on an antique cut ... or both . She may also try to source another unique cut for a ring in the future.

PintoBean: Fortunately not all of the projects we've done online have been terrible, but more than I expected. I agree it should be a fun experience. And thanks, I appreciate your support. I'll definitely come back here if I need any jewelry-related help.

Sean_T: I get what you're saying about making sure to buy certed diamonds, so you really know what you're buying.

luv2sparkle: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I understand why you wouldn't want to buy another uncerted stone and risk being disappointed. I've had some good experiences with online vendors, so I haven't given up on them. I guess it's just a matter of weeding the bad ones out and finding the ones who run their business with integrity.

 

[MrBlueshift]

UPDATE: Grace finally responded to my email. I won't share her response since I gave her my word, but in general she apologized again for making a mistake in her estimate , and will continue to provide the same excellent customer service she always has to her clientele.

 

[HappyNewLife]

too late, Grace.

 

[msop04]

UPDATE: Grace finally responded to my email. I won't share her response since I gave her my word, but in general she apologized again for making a mistake in her estimate , and will continue to provide the same excellent customer service she always has to her clientele.

If that's the case, I'd hate to see/know what she considers subpar customer service... damn. How is this woman still in business??!!

It's also a HUGE turnoff that she basically silenced you, @MrBlueshift. NOT. COOL. ...pretty much inexcusable IMO.

 

[MrBlueshift]

If that's the case, I'd hate to see/know what she considers subpar customer service... damn. How is this woman still in business??!!

It's also a HUGE turnoff that she basically silenced you, @MrBlueshift. NOT. COOL. ...pretty much inexcusable IMO.

To be clear, she didn't silence me; I'm the one who told her I wouldn't share her response in order to give her the opportunity to be truthful in private. Apparently, the "truth" is that she just made a "mistake" in her estimate. I'm done going 'round and 'round so I won't respond to her.

 

[msop04]

To be clear, she didn't silence me; I'm the one who told her I wouldn't share her response in order to give her the opportunity to be truthful in private. Apparently, the "truth" is that she just made a "mistake" in her estimate. I'm done going 'round and 'round so I won't respond to her.

I don't blame you one bit... waste of time. Again, I'm so very sorry Grace has left a bad taste in your mouth for online jewelry purchases. It's such a shame, as there are so many vendors who have proven to give exemplary customer service time and time again. If you want old cuts, Adam at Old World Diamonds, Erica at Love Affair Diamonds, and Caysie of CVB are just a few that come highly recommended.

The great news is that for every unethical vendor with shoddy customer service, there are more than a handful of others who will give you the experience you deserve. Buying bling should be a fun thing!! Best of luck to you in your future diamond/jewelry purchases!!

 

[MrBlueshift]

I don't blame you one bit... waste of time. Again, I'm so very sorry Grace has left a bad taste in your mouth for online jewelry purchases. It's such a shame, as there are so many vendors who have proven to give exemplary customer service time and time again. If you want old cuts, Adam at Old World Diamonds, Erica at Love Affair Diamonds, and Caysie of CVB are just a few that come highly recommended.

The great news is that for every unethical vendor with shoddy customer service, there are more than a handful of others who will give you the experience you deserve. Buying bling should be a fun thing!! Best of luck to you in your future diamond/jewelry purchases!!

Thanks @msop04, I appreciate your comments and continued support. It's reassuring that others would have come to the same conclusions and felt the same way as I did during my experience being gaslighted by Grace.

 

[Karl_K]

Being in the trade as much as I want to say something about this situation and cant there is another side to uncerted stones of significant value.
Lets say you buy a 100% correctly graded to gia specs uncerted stone.
You get it insured and have a loss.
There is a very good chance the replacement the insurance company is looking at might not be as well graded.
This effects your replacement value to a huge degree.

The report sets the baseline for your argument for like kind.
A good appraisal that documents everything in extreme detail, branding and other considerations are icing on the cake to a good outcome.

 

[kenny]

I'd never buy an ungraded diamond, from ANY vendor!

Why?
Two diamonds can look identical to the untrained eye, but one is worth four times the other if both were sent to GIA and priced per their proper grading.
Nuff said?

Today I'd even avoid buying a diamond graded by GIA or AGS from vendors who also sell ungraded diamonds.

There is only one reason for a diamond vendor sell a diamond without a grading report from legit labs like GIA and AGS, to try to get more for it than they know it is worth.
IOW they are hoping for a poorly-informed customer to buy it.
Poor ethics.

Customers looking for a steal of a deal get ripped off.
It's partially their fault for not getting educated.

 

[MrBlueshift]

Thanks for the info @Karl_K; I didn't even know one could insure an uncerted stone.

Just curious, does your inability to talk about the situation result from an unspoken rule between tradespeople or as a result of Pricescope's terms and conditions of use?

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks for the info @Karl_K; I didn't even know one could insure an uncerted stone.

Just curious, does your inability to talk about the situation result from an unspoken rule between tradespeople or as a result of Pricescope's terms and conditions of use?

There are a bunch(millions?) of uncerted stones with one line description appraisals insured out there. I feel for the owners if they ever have a claim.

PS rules for trade members.
Available here:
https://www.pricescope.com/content/forum-policies

So basically as I interpret it and so far has worked for me is if I have something useful to add to help resolve the issue I am generally ok.
I try and let the consumers handle it mostly, this is a consumer forum and that is where I started out many years ago here.
They gave you some good advise.

Saying what I think of the vendor is generally not ok.
Not that I haven't sometimes and have got a talking to about it on occasion. I have a ton of respect for the board moderator and admin so try and self police myself most of the time. Those that know me from my consumer days are shocked at that. LOL

I can say I am sorry that this happened to you.

 

[lalala]

I can't imagine what you're going through but as others have said, I'd avoid buying any diamond that is uncertified in the future. It's unfortunate that this happened with a well known vendor here. I'm sure she is feeling the wrath of all of this. At any rate, I hope you've learned your lesson and I hope she did too.

There are plenty of other places with wonderful reputations that you can buy from in the future. Please enjoy yourself while you shop and plan. It should be a fun experience and I hope that you both can enjoy that!

 

[MrBlueshift]

I'd never buy an ungraded diamond, from ANY vendor!

Why?
Two diamonds can look identical to the untrained eye, but one is worth four times the other if both were sent to GIA and priced per their proper grading.
Nuff said?

Today I'd even avoid buying a diamond graded by GIA or AGS from vendors who also sell ungraded diamonds.

There is only one reason for a diamond vendor sell a diamond without a grading report from legit labs like GIA and AGS, to try to get more for it than they know it is worth.
IOW they are hoping for a poorly-informed customer to buy it.
Poor ethics.

Customers looking for a steal of a deal get ripped off.
It's partially their fault for not getting educated.

Hi @kenny, I appreciate you sharing your views on why one shouldn't buy ungraded diamonds. I hope other consumers will read your post and use it as a metric for choosing an ethical vendor. It's certainly made me think.

You're 100% right about it being partially our fault for not getting educated. My wife and I take full responsibility for our naivety and decision to purchase two pieces of jewelry with uncerted stones. My wife was interested in them because they were fun and unique, and trusted completely in Grace's character and estimate. Lesson learned, folks, educate and protect yourselves!

On an unrelated note, my wife just mentioned to me that your photographs of diamonds are her all-time favorites.

 

[MrBlueshift]

There are a bunch(millions?) of uncerted stones with one line description appraisals insured out there. I feel for the owners if they ever have a claim.

PS rules for trade members.
Available here:
https://www.pricescope.com/content/forum-policies

So basically as I interpret it and so far has worked for me is if I have something useful to add to help resolve the issue I am generally ok.
I try and let the consumers handle it mostly, this is a consumer forum and that is where I started out many years ago here.
They gave you some good advise.

Saying what I think of the vendor is generally not ok.
Not that I haven't sometimes and have got a talking to about it on occasion. I have a ton of respect for the board moderator and admin so try and self police myself most of the time. Those that know me from my consumer days are shocked at that. LOL

I can say I am sorry that this happened to you.

Thank you for the link to the PS forum policies, @Karl_K.

I'm amazed how many people have diamonds insured under appraisals somewhat lacking in data.

Those seem like very reasonable rules for you to live by on the boards. My wife and I are very grateful for all the advice we've received from people on here.

Self AND police? I think that's a contradiction (always FALSE) on most forums.

Thanks, your support means a lot.

 

[MrBlueshift]

I can't imagine what you're going through but as others have said, I'd avoid buying any diamond that is uncertified in the future. It's unfortunate that this happened with a well known vendor here. I'm sure she is feeling the wrath of all of this. At any rate, I hope you've learned your lesson and I hope she did too.

There are plenty of other places with wonderful reputations that you can buy from in the future. Please enjoy yourself while you shop and plan. It should be a fun experience and I hope that you both can enjoy that!

I can definitely say I learned a lesson as a consumer buying diamonds, but sadly I do not have much hope in her learning from this experience, at least concerning being ethical or taking personal accountability. If she is feeling the wrath of all this, it certainly didn't show in her email to me.

Thank you @lalala, my wife and I are very hopeful moving forward, knowing there are many wonderful vendors out there. I'm sure we'll have lots of fun! We realize in the grand scheme of things that what we went through isn't that big of a deal, just important enough to share online to potentially help others avoid a similar situation.

 

[kenny]

Hi @kenny ... On an unrelated note, my wife just mentioned to me that your photographs of diamonds are her all-time favorites.

Aw shucks.
Thank you.

Good luck on your diamond safari.
Don't feel bad; many have difficulties and it's not their fault.
We need more control by government to protect consumers.

Diamond buying can be a brutal business, before you find Pricescope that is.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just wanted to point out to people who may not realize it, the diamond was an antique rhomboid (lozenge) rose cut. Unusual old cuts like this aren't always GIA graded, so I do not blame the buyers one bit for buying it when they thought they could trust the specs on the listing. Had it been a round of any kind over a carat, yes, I would have expected a GIA report. But in this case, I could have easily made the same mistake as you don't get cut info on a stone like this, so I would have felt okay with an accurate estimate of color and clarity. Hopefully sellers in general will realize they need very good appraisers for special ungraded antique stones or jewelry as their reputation depends on accurate information.

 

[MrBlueshift]

Good luck on your diamond safari.
Don't feel bad; many have difficulties and it's not their fault.
We need more control by government to protect consumers.

Diamond buying can be a brutal business, before you find Pricescope that is.

Thanks @kenny. Yeah the veil's been lifted; time to do some research on Pricescope! BTW what kind of diamond is your avatar? I like it.

I just wanted to point out to people who may not realize it, the diamond was an antique rhomboid (lozenge) rose cut. Unusual old cuts like this aren't always GIA graded, so I do not blame the buyers one bit for buying it when they thought they could trust the specs on the listing. Had it been a round of any kind over a carat, yes, I would have expected a GIA report. But in this case, I could have easily made the same mistake as you don't get cut info on a stone like this, so I would have felt okay with an accurate estimate of color and clarity. Hopefully sellers in general will realize they need very good appraisers for special ungraded antique stones or jewelry as their reputation depends on accurate information.

Hi @diamondseeker2006, I had no idea the lozenge diamond was an antique stone (that feature wasn't indicated in the listing). Would the measurement of color and clarity be compromised due to it being antique?

Is it common for vendors to use different tiers of appraisal (in-house vs independent, for instance) depending on the type of piece for sale? Does PS have a list of trusted appraisers that you could provide a link to? It might help anyone considering the purchase of antique or estate jewelry that can't be certified.

How would an ethical appraiser handle a situation where they were asked to appraise a stone that's in a setting, even though it could have been appraised when it was loose?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Absolutely, the stone could have been graded formally or informally before it was set. It certainly is true that it would be more accurate that way. I should clarify that I don't know the age of the stone in question. But most of the ones I have seen of that type were old and not new stones. I should have left off the word "antique".

There are indeed independent appraisers who could definitely assess diamond color and clarity. Whether all would have equal expertise in both modern and antique jewelry, I don't think we can know. But there are appraisers listed on this site under resources, and some have been used multiple times with references on the forum, which is very helpful.

 

[MrBlueshift]

There's so much I don't know it all feels overwhelming. Resources seems like a good starting point. Thanks, @diamondseeker2006!

 

[MollyMalone]

This page
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
opens up if you hit the Appraisers link that's part of the drop-down menu under the Resources tab at the top of all the PS pages. Unfortunately, there are some dead links (which reminds me, I was going to take the time this summer to go through that roster & send a list of proposed corrections to the moderators for their consideration, but I forgot about it until now).

I can happily recommend, based on first-hand experiences, David Wolf of Just Appraisers, located in Manhattan. First learned of him via my father-in-law, who was "in the trade" here in NYC.
https://justappraisers.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz/just-appraisers-new-york

Click the Credentials button for more information about him than you see in the body of this page:
https://justappraisers.com/about-us/#davidwolf

I always suggest to people that, if possible, they meet with David in person in order to have the benefit of their own, private "tutorial"; he's super nice and informative.

 

[MrBlueshift]

@MollyMalone, I always appreciate your constructive posts. Thank you for providing a recommendation and links!

 

[PintoBean]

This page
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
opens up if you hit the Appraisers link that's part of the drop-down menu under the Resources tab at the top of all the PS pages. Unfortunately, there are some dead links (which reminds me, I was going to take the time this summer to go through that roster & send a list of proposed corrections to the moderators for their consideration, but I forgot about it until now).

I can happily recommend, based on first-hand experiences, David Wolf of Just Appraisers, located in Manhattan. First learned of him via my father-in-law, who was "in the trade" here in NYC.
https://justappraisers.com
https://www.yelp.com/biz/just-appraisers-new-york

Click the Credentials button for more information about him than you see in the body of this page:
https://justappraisers.com/about-us/#davidwolf

I always suggest to people that, if possible, they meet with David in person in order to have the benefit of their own, private "tutorial"; he's super nice and informative.

I've also sent friends to David wolf and received glowing feedback. You can Always have your purchase sent to the independent appraiser first then based on the appraiser's feedback send the package back to the vendor for a return or exchange, or hopefully on to you.

 

[MrBlueshift]

@PintoBean, Thanks for your recommendation and advice. A vendor told me the reason they have a three-day unconditional guarantee is so customers can have their purchase evaluated by an independent appraiser. Do you know what the turnaround time was for your friend's appraisal? With shipping and other considerations, I'm trying to figure out if a three-day period is realistic for this type of service.