2 Carats Under 8K: Doable or Bad Idea?

HDer · Aug 20, 2017

I've been looking for an engagement ring for the SO and we settled on some parameters:

1. Rose Gold.
2. Halo

I would also like to get her something that's 2 carats, if possible.

So after looking at a bunch of threads here I went to James Allen to take a look at what they had.

First one was this (literally the cheapest 2 carat stone they have available): https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-j-color-i1-clarity-very-good-cut-sku-3125634 To my completely untrained eye, this looked great as it didn't have any of the black specks the other stones around it had, but a quick talk to the gemologist convinced me that it would be a relatively dull stone.

Then I took a look at this one: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...k-color-si2-clarity-very-good-cut-sku-3009718 which according to the gemologist was "eye clean" but it's an IGI certificate, and the cut is only "very good."

Finally, just searching on my own for SI1 or above, I came across this one, which is on the higher end of the budget, but looks clean. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3119737

I also used the PS search tool and found a few that look interesting like this one: http://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=6928411 but without access to pictures I'm a little wary.

Really, complete newb here, so any advice would be helpful. Been trying to read up as much as possible and go with the advice given, so really prioritizing cut first and clarity second. Color from what I've read with the rose gold setting should be less of a big deal, although if it's a lower grade would rather go for yellow rather than brown.

Thanks in advance!

whitewave · Aug 20, 2017

Does you GF want a warm buttery yellowish diamond?

The diamonds you posted are all hot messes. Stay away.

MissGotRocks · Aug 20, 2017

Welcome to PS! You will certainly find a wealth of information here.

You are not going to find a well cut two carat stone for 8k. You should stick with AGS or GIA certified stones and use the following parameters in your search. You can then input numbers into HCA which you will find under tools at the top of the page.

Table 54-58
Depth no more than 62.2
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion angle 40.6-40.9

Since she wants a halo setting, you can get by with a smaller center stone. Rose gold will allow you to look a warmer color stones but I would first advise that you both go out and look at stones to see where your color threshold really lies. A beautifully cut smaller stone will outshine a large, dull stone any day!

HDer · Aug 20, 2017

whitewave said:
Does you GF want a warm buttery yellowish diamond?

The diamonds you posted are all hot messes. Stay away.

whitewave, would you have alternative suggestions then in that budget range? I'm totally new to this, so please excuse my lack of knowledge.

MissGotRocks said:
Welcome to PS! You will certainly find a wealth of information here.

You are not going to find a well cut two carat stone for 8k. You should stick with AGS or GIA certified stones and use the following parameters in your search. You can then input numbers into HCA which you will find under tools at the top of the page.

Table 54-58
Depth no more than 62.2
Crown angle 34-35
Pavilion angle 40.6-40.9

Since she wants a halo setting, you can get by with a smaller center stone. Rose gold will allow you to look a warmer color stones but I would first advise that you both go out and look at stones to see where your color threshold really lies. A beautifully cut smaller stone will outshine a large, dull stone any day!

MissGotRocks, thanks for the HCA tool suggestion. Just so I understand, should the HCA tool be used in lieu of or in addition to the GIA cut rating?

HDer · Aug 20, 2017

By the way, when I put in your depth and table recommendations I see very few stones. Am I doing this right? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...m=54&DepthTo=58.00&TableFrom=50&TableTo=62.20

gm89uk · Aug 20, 2017

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...k-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3321151

Best I can see for price. Not sure about those inclusions though.

You'll have to ask but they are very small and peppery. The cut is worlds above what you selected

MissGotRocks · Aug 20, 2017

HDer said:
By the way, when I put in your depth and table recommendations I see very few stones. Am I doing this right? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=1.5&CaratTo=30&Color=M,L,K,J,I,H,G,F,E,D&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&Sort=Price, DefaultOrder&ViewsOptions=Images&advancedParameter=CaratSliderBottom&showAdvanced=show&Shape=round&Polish=&Symmetry=&Lab=GIA,AGS&Flour=&DepthFrom=54&DepthTo=58.00&TableFrom=50&TableTo=62.20

You use the HCA on any stone. You are doing it correctly but mark the polish and symmetry as excellent and the depth from say 60.5 - 62.2. Table 54-58. You can mark cut as true hearts and ideal. As you can see, there are not nearly as many diamonds cut to these preferences as they are not as plentiful. In order to cut a really well cut diamond, cutters will have to waste more rough to get to ideal proportions. Also, check out Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Crafted by Infinity. These vendors all have super ideal cut stones - it is good to have a visual point of reference as well. You should also check out there upgrade policies as they are not all the same. You may not think upgrading will ever be an issue but just in case! Diamonds tend to shrink right before your very eyes - lol!

whitewave · Aug 20, 2017

http://www.usacerteddiamonds.com/introindex.html is likely going to be your cheapest diamonds for larger size. Work with Martin... tell him PS sent you. He doesn't have a trade up policy and you will likely need the stone set elsewhere.

kimf79 · Aug 20, 2017

I would go smaller on the diamond and higher quality for sure. Maybe look at what you can find in the 1.5 range, going higher on the 4 c's, or even a 1 carat stunning perfect stone with a beautiful rose gold halo would look amazing. The halo will give impression of a bigger diamond.

LLJsmom · Aug 20, 2017

The first thought that popped into my head was "Two carats of what?" I would say that would be really hard if you want a sparkly diamond that isn't totally included. But maybe that isn't that important to you. Based on your comments, you seem very focused on size. 2 carats. Plus halo. Gotta look big right? Maybe a pre-loved warm diamond?

You would be lucky to nab this one. The faceting is stellar.
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-72ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-k-vs1-1608

The faceting is pretty and flowery. I like it more in the video.
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-n-vs1

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

What Diamond are you looking for in 2 carat weight range? Are you looking for an Old European, an Old Mine, an August Vintage Round, Antique Vintage, or Modern cut stone?
If you are interested in older, large stones with darker color range, search here:
https://ivyandrose.com/t/all-jewelry/engagement-rings-and-wedding-bands
Antique and Vintage stores will be the place to go for those.
If you want something that was old, but Cut more recently, or recut for precision, PS vendors can help, but not for 2ct at 8k.

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx

https://www.goodoldgold.com/

It helps us to know exactly what you're looking for, in order for us to send you in the right direction.

HDer · Aug 20, 2017

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Please keep them coming! I will check out usacerteddiamonds and Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Crafted by Infinity. gm89uk I like the one you sent. Only worry is that it looks a little brown/cloudy. Will chat with the gemologist about it.

Will also play with the HCA tool to see what attributes will get me closer to the <2 mark.

LLJsmom: Yes, I know, what am I compensating for right? But my SO and her friends aren't going to care about if the stone is a VS2 or a SI1, as long as there's not a big black dot in the middle of the diamond and as long as it sparkles and isn't clouded over. As for the decision to go with the halo, for me it was a no brainer because the halo setting we like costs just 300 dollars more than the solitaire setting we liked, but I know from what I've read that it can be a polarizing decision.

HDer · Aug 20, 2017

Matthews1127 said:
What Diamond are you looking for in 2 carat weight range? Are you looking for an Old European, an Old Mine, an August Vintage Round, Antique Vintage, or Modern cut stone?
If you are interested in older, large stones with darker color range, search here:
https://ivyandrose.com/t/all-jewelry/engagement-rings-and-wedding-bands
Antique and Vintage stores will be the place to go for those.
If you want something that was old, but Cut more recently, or recut for precision, PS vendors can help, but not for 2ct at 8k.

https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx

https://www.goodoldgold.com/

It helps us to know exactly what you're looking for, in order for us to send you in the right direction.

I actually don't know what the difference is between the older cuts and the modern cut. Will do more research and get back to you!

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

HDer said:
I actually don't know what the difference is between the older cuts and the modern cut. Will do more research and get back to you!

Here's a good start to help you out at GOG:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search

LLJsmom · Aug 20, 2017

HDer said:
Thanks for all of the suggestions! Please keep them coming! I will check out usacerteddiamonds and Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, and Crafted by Infinity. gm89uk I like the one you sent. Only worry is that it looks a little brown/cloudy. Will chat with the gemologist about it.

Will also play with the HCA tool to see what attributes will get me closer to the <2 mark.

LLJsmom: Yes, I know, what am I compensating for right? But my SO and her friends aren't going to care about if the stone is a VS2 or a SI1, as long as there's not a big black dot in the middle of the diamond and as long as it sparkles and isn't clouded over. As for the decision to go with the halo, for me it was a no brainer because the halo setting we like costs just 300 dollars more than the solitaire setting we liked, but I know from what I've read that it can be a polarizing decision.

Look at the diamonds I linked. Those are old european cuts and the K (the first one) will look very white. Stretch your budget a bit and put that in a halo and you will have a huge looking ring with a unbelievably beautiful stone. The floral pattern is very symmetrical and obvious. Linking it again.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-72ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-k-vs1-1608

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

Just keep in mind, CUT is KING. Don't look at diamonds under Excellent Cut...
Try to stay in SI1-VS1 Clarity range, and consider lower color ranged stones...esp since you're dealing with Rose Gold...

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

LLJsmom said:
Look at the diamonds I linked. Those are old european cuts and the K (the first one) will look very white. Stretch your budget a bit and put that in a halo and you will have a huge looking ring with a unbelievably beautiful stone. The floral pattern is very symmetrical and obvious. Linking it again.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-72ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-k-vs1-1608

YES!!! THAT is a BEAUTIFUL DIAMOND!!!

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

...Antique Cushion Cut...just to give you another option, and to show you the difference between the two...

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-62ct-antique-cushion-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs1

Matthews1127 · Aug 20, 2017

Another OEC...further down on the color scale, but nearly 2 carats, eye clean at VS1, and UNDER $8,000...

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-n-vs1

BlingDreams · Aug 20, 2017

LLJsmom said:
You would be lucky to nab this one. The faceting is stellar.
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-72ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-k-vs1-1608

The faceting is pretty and flowery. I like it more in the video.
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-91ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-n-vs1

I am LOVING this one.
Drooling.....

rockysalamander · Aug 20, 2017

I'm the first one to suggest old cuts, but do you know if your GF likes them? You gotta show her the videos and see what she likes. I love old cuts, so I am in no way trying to talk you out of them. I just want you to be sure your GF feels the same warm happy feeling from them as many of us do. Also, when comparing diamonds compare by spread (size in mm) not just carats (weight).

Also, I can't tell you how often it is said that the intended just wants a big rock and won't care about clarity or color. But, that is rarely true. She wants a lovely diamond that she'll feel confident showing around. Not too yellow. No obvious blemishes when viewed at about 8 inches away. An sparkle bomb with fire (based on many many discussions with women from 20-40+ year olds). So, if you go modern round, stick with the criteria above. Personally, I compromise size to get better clarity and stick within my personal color limits (H on ideal; J on super-ideal) and top cut. There is no magic formula, everyone has their own balance among the color, clarity, carat to achieve top cut in budget.

We don't mean the cut grade, that should always be excellent-GIA or 0-AGS, but the actual faceting of the diamond. {read post #6 by Gypsy at this link, avatar is black and white cat, https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/deciding-btw-2-diamonds.222909/}

Did you say what color metal she wants? White, rose, yellow? Do you have a picture of the kind of halo she wants?

Examples of some good choices, for moderns in your price range (there are lots others, but start looking at these to train your eyes for what a good diamond looks like). You'll have to decide if the J color is ok. Most PSers will consider I and J in super ideals.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3857538.htm {1.382, J, VS2, 7.21 mm}
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3706895.htm {has a dark inclusion right in the middle of the table and too many around the girdle to count on covering with a prong. That would eliminate this for me, 1.328 J SI1, 7.08}
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3754137.htm {another good choice, 1.318, J, VS2, 7.03}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3151873 {1.29 I VS1, TH}
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3160818 {1.27 I VS1 TH}
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d....243-j-vvs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104093735052 {1.243 J VVS fluorescent}

ac117 · Aug 21, 2017

Is there any flexibility in your budget at all? This is a beautiful diamond at JA....you could ask them for a PS discount and pay by wire, which would bring it closer to what you're trying to spend:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-k-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3208250

RG halo: https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...amond-engagement-ring-round-center-item-41435
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...-halo-engagement-ring-round-center-item-41414

Snowdrop13 · Aug 21, 2017

Or how about a smaller superideal cut? Will be super sparkly and face up pretty white.

This one's $6500, leaves you a bit more for the setting,

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3858588.htm

mrs-b · Aug 21, 2017

HDer - whooooooa Nelly! There's so much info flying around here, a newbie could get buried under the education!

You said your 'SO and her friends' - so obviously this is a ring that has to impress a group. Nothing wrong with that - except it means you can't deviate from the norm. So - that being said...

If sparkle and size are her 2 main criteria - stick with that. This rules out old cuts IMMEDIATELY - because they don't sparkle in the same way a modern round brilliant (mrb) will. They're cut with much larger facets, so you get broad flashes of light and color, but not that scintillating sparkle you get from a mrb. For that reason, it's possible she or her friends could look at it go "....oh. What sort of stone is this? It's not what I imagined...."

The second problem with an old cut is that they're cut deep. It's part of the design. For that reason - you'll lose diameter. If you're stretching for size, skip the old cuts. They're confusing if you're a newbie, she might not like it - or even recognize it, and they're small for their ct weight.

So. Having said that....

Stay with a modern round brilliant. And yes, cut it king, and yes, you aren't finding a lot of stones that hit the right parameters because a good diamond is an uncommon diamond! So you're looking for a mrb as close to 2ct as you can get it, with great cut stats. Ok. Got it.

Next - color. I wouldn't go below a K color. Anything else is obviously tinted - gray, yellow or brown. That's not the same as BEING gray, yellow or brown - it's nowhere NEAR those colors - it's just not...white. A K color is a tinted diamond, but only very slightly. In a rose gold halo, you're very unlikely to see anything that bothers you, and if it's cut well, face up it will be very white. You'll also save a substantial amount over a J color or above. So - mrb, as close to 2ct as you can get, K color, great cut stats. Onto clarity....

If you want eye clean, you want a SI1 or above - ideally a VS2 or above. You won't be able to afford the 'above' part, so a K SI1 or K VS2 it is. Anything lower may indeed have one of those big black marks or cloudy messy appearances.

So - here we are, looking for a K SI1/VS2 modern round brilliant, as close to 2ct as we can get, with great cut stats, for $8k. And....you'll now discover....

It ain't out there. HOWEVER! ac117 found you *this* stunner!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-k-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3208250

See what you can do to pull in any discount you can, and this would be a SMASHING diamond, which hits all your bases. This is the proverbial 'rare as hen's teeth', so if I were you, I'd be all over this. Since it's now been posted on this site, if you want it, you'll have to jump on it pronto - GREAT diamonds like this with the specs and price you want are very unusual.

In my opinion - and it's only my opinion - this is your diamond.

Good luck!

valeria101 · Aug 21, 2017

1.91 H/I1 WWW - unfair clarity grade
2.01 J/VVS WWW - there are a couple of attractive J's >1.8 cts, but this got past the 2.00 cts post. For what that is worth, at least one of the 1.8 cts was larger in mm terms than this one.

I am trying to share the 2 CARAT enthusiasm ... NOT EASY.

Any idea if some other keywords might be as catchy as 'Carat' ? 'Ideal' (cut) has already been mentioned. 'Colourless' is another...

A nice looking ring might get away with just looking good - perhaps. Dunno ... I do get away with grave jewelry transgressions ... (stuff you can't even buy since nobody is crazy enough to sell !)

tyty333 · Aug 21, 2017

ac117 said:
Is there any flexibility in your budget at all? This is a beautiful diamond at JA....you could ask them for a PS discount and pay by wire, which would bring it closer to what you're trying to spend:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-k-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3208250

RG halo: https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...amond-engagement-ring-round-center-item-41435
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...-halo-engagement-ring-round-center-item-41414

This is a nice stone if you can swing it. Well cut and color should be ok with rose gold.

And ditto what Mrs-b pointed out. If your GF likes old cuts you need to be look at the mm measurements and not the carat weight because they are
usually cut deep and will face up smaller in general...but check.

HDer · Aug 21, 2017

So had a conversation with the SO yesterday night. She doesn't want a preloved ring. Is a bit superstitious about them, so I guess the old European cut is out. Thank you for sending me so many great diamonds though! They look lovely.

She likes the rose gold halo you linked. Question about the "true hearts" AGS0: if you were to quantify it, how much of a difference would it be in terms of brilliance between a true hearts AGS0 and a run of the mill GIA triple excellent? That's a lovely diamond for sure, don't get me wrong. I just want to figure out if the AGS0 is worth paying for.

Looking on the pricescope search, it looks like usacerteddiamonds has a few "quadruple excellent," or GIA triple excellent + HCA excellent, and some HCA very goods in the price range. Will try to ping them today.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions! Love reading all of them!

HDer · Aug 21, 2017

Couple more things: I showed her some pictures from here of lower colored stones http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/can-i-see-real-life-pics-of-warmer-diamond-colors-j-k-l-m/ and she said she's OK with them. Of course, it would still be better to see one in person. Do you think we could just walk into a Kay's Jeweler and ask to see a M colored ring? Most of them don't carry GIA anyways right?

Also, if I do buy from USA Certed Diamonds they don't do settings and they only have a 7 day return policy. I asked James Allen and they said that they would be able to set a third party loose stone in their settings for an extra 100 + 30 shipping, so we might do that. Any other suggestions on the setting front though, if we do decide to go with the USA Certed Diamonds route?

ChristineRose · Aug 21, 2017

"Bad idea" is very subjective here. It's not a bad idea as in you'll lose you house if you try this.

A poorly cut 2 ct can hide weight, which would defeat the whole purpose. On the other hand a large flat-ish poorly cut stone will be dull and lifeless, but big. To a casual observer it might not look big though, because of the lack of sparkles dancing around.

Before you go the dull and lifeless route, at least look at some superideals and shallower stones in a variety of lighting.

As for pre-loved--you should know that the diamond pipeline is quite narrow, and that any diamond resold ends up in the same pipeline. It's estimated that 40% of stones are pre-loved--the number depends a lot on what sort of stones you are looking at--and there's very few options to guarantee that yours won't be.

In addition, going down to 1.94 carat will technically make your stone "less than 2 carats" but will save you a bundle. After that the jewelry industry rounds up. There are two many people like your girl who are attached to that number.

GIA excellent is a very broad range, much broader than AGS 0, and much less likely to get you a stone you like. It's not a good way to buy stones online. The stones people are showing you here have been narrowed so as to be much more likely to have good light performance.

valeria101 · Aug 21, 2017

Would stay with HCA < 2, accepting GIA & AGS reports as they come.

There is a long story of what GIA Ex, AGS0 means versus the HCA ... all over this forum.

It is a good idea to see some diamonds with GIA or AGS paper before buying a 2 carat J - M. Take the object to some realistic lighting - e.g. near a store window, with yourself between store lights & stone ...

I don't think GIA paper is such a rarity - especially if you ask.

2 Carats Under 8K: Doable or Bad Idea?

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