Pre-designed vs slight custom setting (also, tanzanite!)

[AlexOnFire]

Hi All,
So I've already bothered some on diamond advice, and I have that pretty much figured out (WF ACA!). Now, I have a slight dilemma on the setting. I love one of the settings on WF's site, by a designer there. And WF has told me that they can do some slight customizations in terms of the stones I'm using for the accents/surprises/etc. Which is something I wanted. However, I had initially wanted tanzanite surprise stones, but was told they were too soft and would shatter when setting. I could use a harder stone (sapphire, diamond) if I wanted to.

Now, there's a local jeweler who comes highly recommended, who does custom settings (as well as pre-designed settings of course). I showed him the design I liked, and a few tweaks I wanted to it. He mentioned he can get it up in CAD with the way I want it designed exactly, and then have it custom made. He also said he would be able to put the tanzanites as the surprise stones if I wanted, and it won't be a problem. He also mentioned if it's on the exterior, that they would make sure it has a slight bezel around it so that it doesn't ever bump into anything directly. Obviously, there's always a chance of soft stones damaging, but something I'd have to live with. But being a tiny surprise stone, it may be a non-issue.

I also inquired about inserting a tiny stone on the inside of the band. WF would do a non-tanzanite, and the custom jeweler said they could do a tiny tanzanite on the inside as well, and set it properly.

So my end is this:
WF: Pre-designed ring, no tanzanite, but other hard stones, around $1500, 3 week timeframe, in the US (I'm in Canada)
Local: Custom designed ring of the pre-designed ring, tanzanite inside the ring (I'm leaning to black surprise diamonds instead, and just keeping the tanzanite on the inside, away from the elements), around $900, 2 week timeframe, and local.

Is the local a good idea? I would think having a tiny little tanzanite on the inside of the band shouldn't cause any problems but maybe you guys can shed more light, as I have read that having tanzanite on an e-ring is a bad idea (IF it's the primary stone). And if down the road the tiny rock inside the band does face damage, I don't mind having it replaced with a sapphire if needed (as close to tazanite color as possible).

I'm also not sure how well custom designs that almost match actual designer rings (Vatche, Veragio, etc.) would be built comparatively.

Thanks in advance! Just looking for advice on which direction to go - I love WF, but the tanzanite idea was something very important to me when I started the whole e-ring process. Just want to make sure if I go local for the setting, that the ring would look exactly how I want, good quality, and the small tanzanite isn't a horrible idea on the inside.

 

[flyingpig]

General recommendation is to stick with one vendor for the entire ring. hassel-free, less emails back and forth, less shipping, no insurance issue, less headache...
In addition, a custom project can be risky.

Having that said, for settings, Canadian jewellers can offer a great $ value, because labor cost and exchange rate. I got a quoted only $800~900 CAD for a 14/18k gold custom tension setting. Try that with a US vendor. That appears to be the case.

 

[AlexOnFire]

General recommendation is to stick with one vendor for the entire ring. hassel-free, less emails back and forth, less shipping, less headache...
In addition, a custom project can be risky.

Having that said, for settings, Canadian jewellers can offer a great $ value, because labor cost and exchange rate. I got a quoted only $800~900 CAD for a 18k gold custom tension setting. Try that with a US vendor. That appears to be the case.

I would love to stick with one vendor, but I think I'm set on a diamond from WF, and the fact that they wouldn't do tanzanite saddens me a bit - which is the main reason I'd consider local custom. The part about it being risky is also what I've been worried about.

As for the bargain, yep! It ends up being around 1200 CAD for the local with customizations (it's nearly a copy of a designer ring I wanted) and the actual one, without the tanzanite option, ends up being about 1400 USD - talk about price difference!

Plus re-sizing, cleaning, any other minor issues, would be much easier locally, then having to send it back to the US. Which is another plus of going local. I just don't know what to do!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Have you seen any of this new designers work? Custom can be a challenge.

cheers--Sharon

 

[tyty333]

Can you give us a link to the WF setting you are talking about so we can see how intricate it is?

 

[AlexOnFire]

Note: it will be the yellow gold settings...

So the more likely design I'm going with is:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-3790.htm

The other one I was considering is the sisley:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-4645.htm#size=6

Thank you!

 

[BlingDreams]

Is there a sentimental reason you're set on tanzanite? I love it too, but it really is too soft for a ring that will hopefully be worn every day for decades. If it's simply that you like the color, have you considered a purple sapphire, or even a color-changing sapphire (like below)?

 

[Arcadian]

I generally stay in colored stones though I peek in here on occasions. WF told you no on tanzanites because with a Moh's of only 6.5 they can be hellish to set, and with daily wear can abrade easily along the facet lines, giving the stones a very dull appearance over time. small ones can be incredibly hard to set if the bench tends to set mostly diamonds so really not a great idea...

If you're in love with that purple color, maybe look to purple sapphire or violet or purple spinel. those have good hardness level and can endure day to day ring wear.

Tanzanite are absolutely beautiful, but they're more for occasional wear or, something you'd put in a necklace.

 

[rockysalamander]

The settings you posted above may prevent a flush fitting wedding band. I dislike gaps and it would bug me. I also like the ability to wear my wedding band without my ering and curved one can look funny alone. The matching wedding band of the Vatche 191 is curved (first pic). Below have flush fit.

• https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/comfort-fit-surprise-diamond-ring-183.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...e-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-251.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...imply-tacori-diamond-engagement-ring-4832.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ngle-shank-solitaire-engagement-ring-3811.htm

I have to agree with Arcadian and WF. Tanzanite is simply going to be destroyed through daily wear in a ring. If tanzanite is important for its tie to December, then alternative stones tied to that month are topaz, zircon and turquoise. Of these, topaz is the toughest. I still think sapphire or colored diamonds (if they can get the right color; look for periwinkle blue; purplish blue).

Rather than have the tanzanite on the outside of the setting, maybe they could insert it into a hole under the main stone, so the stones end up culet to culet. Tanzanite might survive this if it survives the setting process (see last two pics, Scroll Setting from Joseph Schuback Jewelers).

 

[rocks]

Another problem with tanzanite melee is that it will be a very pale purple/blue, not the vibrant color tanzanite is known for. Have you seen tanzanite melee?

 

[AlexOnFire]

Is there a sentimental reason you're set on tanzanite? I love it too, but it really is too soft for a ring that will hopefully be worn every day for decades. If it's simply that you like the color, have you considered a purple sapphire, or even a color-changing sapphire (like below)?

Yeah quite sentimental actually. But due to what WF told me, I was willing to maybe make it a "fake, strong, tanzanite i.e. sapphire). However, they said they can only do something like a ceylon (super light purple) or a deep blue sapphire. I can inquire about the color changing because that would be amazing, but they spoke to a designing manager and apparently those 2 are the only ones that would be comparable to tz that they could do.

I generally stay in colored stones though I peek in here on occasions. WF told you no on tanzanites because with a Moh's of only 6.5 they can be hellish to set, and with daily wear can abrade easily along the facet lines, giving the stones a very dull appearance over time. small ones can be incredibly hard to set if the bench tends to set mostly diamonds so really not a great idea...

If you're in love with that purple color, maybe look to purple sapphire or violet or purple spinel. those have good hardness level and can endure day to day ring wear.

Tanzanite are absolutely beautiful, but they're more for occasional wear or, something you'd put in a necklace.

Yeah, it was more of a santimental thing and some meaning to tanzanite for us. But a sapphire may be the only route I can take - maybe I'll get earrings down the road, or even with the e-ring

The settings you posted above may prevent a flush fitting wedding band. I dislike gaps and it would bug me. I also like the ability to wear my wedding band without my ering and curved one can look funny alone. The matching wedding band of the Vatche 191 is curved (first pic). Below have flush fit.

• https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/comfort-fit-surprise-diamond-ring-183.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...e-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-251.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...imply-tacori-diamond-engagement-ring-4832.htm
• https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ngle-shank-solitaire-engagement-ring-3811.htm

I have to agree with Arcadian and WF. Tanzanite is simply going to be destroyed through daily wear in a ring. If tanzanite is important for its tie to December, then alternative stones tied to that month are topaz, zircon and turquoise. Of these, topaz is the toughest. I still think sapphire or colored diamonds (if they can get the right color; look for periwinkle blue; purplish blue).

Rather than have the tanzanite on the outside of the setting, maybe they could insert it into a hole under the main stone, so the stones end up culet to culet. Tanzanite might survive this if it survives the setting process (see last two pics, Scroll Setting from Joseph Schuback Jewelers).

Unfortunately, I've looked through SO many settings, and those 2 are the only ones I like, and I'm sure she would love (surprise). She always told me she'd want to wear both the band and e-ring together, so I don't think the curve would be an issue. And it's not for the ties to december, it's for more of a sentimental reason. So if anything a sapphire is my most likely route.

Another problem with tanzanite melee is that it will be a very pale purple/blue, not the vibrant color tanzanite is known for. Have you seen tanzanite melee?

I actually have not seen tanzanite melee before. Is sapphire the same thing - i.e. would a melee stone be pale and dull looking?


-----
Also, based on the 2 designs I liked above, does anyone have input on how intricate the details would be for a custom setting by a local jeweler to replicate? If it seems like something too detailed or difficult for someone to replicate, then I just need to decide if I'm going WF vs local for the setting (see above for my pros and cons, seeing as I'm not even located in the US, so resizing, cost, and other factors sound better by getting it done locally.

Thanks all!

 

[BlingDreams]

I'd say it's not so much a decision on if the setting is too intricate, but rather the skill level of your jeweler. Your design is very fluid and flowy - which is cool - but can easily highlight mistakes that are made in the craftsmanship. Even though it's more money, I'd vote to do it through Whiteflash. With a purchase like this, you want know it will be done right.

 

[tyty333]

Settings similar to that have been made by David Klass...I would trust him to do it well. (not sure about the tanz though) Think it would cost more than
$900 from DK.

Here is his facebook page where you can look at some of the rings he has made
https://www.facebook.com/pg/david.klass.jewelry/photos/

Does your local guy do CADS and can he do a wax for you so you can see how the ring will turn out?

 

[AlexOnFire]

Thanks guys. Going with David Klass would mean getting the ring done in the US again, in which case I'd just go with WF. One of the main reasons I was considering a local jeweler was to be able to see it in person, go back for sizing, issues, etc. Whereas that will be a pain to do if I get everything done in the US. Plus, like I said, its almost half the price of getting the designer ring from WF.

The local guy does CADs but not sure about the wax, I can ask when they open (closed Mondays). Only thing is, I only have the diamond reserved until tomorrow at WF, so need to make a decision asap on if I want WF to just do the setting, or just send me the diamond to get done here.

The local jeweler is Emilian and he seems to have gotten great reviews online and a couple on PS as well. I also read about P&H designs but haven't visited their shop yet.

Emilian: http://emilianjewellery.com/misshome?id=12

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * The local jeweler is Emilian and he seems to have gotten great reviews online and a couple on PS as well. I also read about P&H designs but haven't visited their shop yet.
Emilian: http://emilianjewellery.com/misshome?id=12

Hi, Alex

Unfortunately, Emilian's web site shows us nothing of their custom work & the few reviews I'm seeing on Yelp and PS were not ones that involved custom mountings crafted by their own bench.

So I too will encourage you to go with the true Vatché that's captured your fancy, so you can have confidence that what you find so striking-attractive is what you'll get -- ETA with no fuss or bother (plus, no ethical jeweler imo will knowingly duplicate Vatché's distinctive Swan.)

Perhaps things are different in Canada, but here in the US, it's practically unheard of for a local jeweler to charge for inspecting and cleaning a ring purchased elsewhere; like Lenscrafters popping a lens back in or replacing a lost screw in eyeglass frames, it's a friendly gesture, which they hope will foster good will in your mind so that you will return when shopping another time.

Having any work (like re-sizing, tipping the prongs) actually done by anyone other than an authorized Vatché retailer, or Vatché themselves, will void Vatché's lifetime warranty. But whether that matters much depends on the actual terms of the warranty.* If the Vatché warranty simply covers "manufacturing defects" -- as is the norm for watches nowadays -- the warranty would carry little weight in my mind if, e.g., the ring needed resizing 10 years after the purchase.

But Vatché currently doesn't have its lifetime warranty posted on its web site, so this is something you need to nail down with WF. (Plus, maybe there are other perks to being a Vatché ring owner who never "leaves the fold," so to speak, for servicing.)

* Emilian may not offer any kind of a formal warranty on their own custom jewelry.

 

[tkyasx78]

I would not put tanzanite in a daily wear ring.
I have had great experiences with my custom made stuff, but make sure every step of the process you and your jeweler are on the same page. ( get things in WRITING before anything starts )
sapphires or diamonds are going to stand the test of time. If you want a tanzanite jewelry item, do a necklace. You have a lot more flexibility for design with a necklace and it will not get bumped and dinged like a ring can.

 

[MollyMalone]

P.S. Another possibility to explore with WF: ask them if Stuller (a wholesaler, to the trade only, that WF has ordered from & whose ring settings are moderately priced, a good value) has any "surprise stone" settings that are similar to the 2 Vatché ones you like. The online catalog is a PIA for finding something like that, but WF undoubtedly has Stuller's paper catalogs at hand, or has someone on staff who could ascertain, more quickly than I can, what there is along these lines.

 

[AlexOnFire]

Hi, Alex

Unfortunately, Emilian's web site shows us nothing of their custom work & the few reviews I'm seeing on Yelp and PS were not ones that involved custom mountings crafted by their own bench.

So I too will encourage you to go with the true Vatché that's captured your fancy, so you can have confidence that what you find so striking-attractive is what you'll get -- ETA with no fuss or bother (plus, no ethical jeweler imo will knowingly duplicate Vatché's distinctive Swan.)

Perhaps things are different in Canada, but here in the US, it's practically unheard of for a local jeweler to charge for inspecting and cleaning a ring purchased elsewhere; like Lenscrafters popping a lens back in or replacing a lost screw in eyeglass frames, it's a friendly gesture, which they hope will foster good will in your mind so that you will return when shopping another time.

Having any work (like re-sizing, tipping the prongs) actually done by anyone other than an authorized Vatché retailer, or Vatché themselves, will void Vatché's lifetime warranty. But whether that matters much depends on the actual terms of the warranty.* If the Vatché warranty simply covers "manufacturing defects" -- as is the norm for watches nowadays -- the warranty would carry little weight in my mind if, e.g., the ring needed resizing 10 years after the purchase.

But Vatché currently doesn't have its lifetime warranty posted on its web site, so this is something you need to nail down with WF. (Plus, maybe there are other perks to being a Vatché ring owner who never "leaves the fold," so to speak, for servicing.)

* Emilian may not offer any kind of a formal warranty on their own custom jewelry.

This is the route I'm leaning on, but did not know about the warranty voiding if done by an unauthorized Vatche jeweller. Unfortunately, from everything I've read, there are NONE of those in Canada. This would mean I would have to ship back the ring to WF for resizing or any kind of minor fixes or work - I've never shipped jewellery across the border, but I can only assume it will be a bit of a hassle and cost a pretty penny. This is making me lean more towards stopping by my Emilian and just asking about the wax setting and maybe going with something a bit different, but with some of the same touches of the vatche. And asking about the warranty of course. Do you know if I confirm with WF about the diamond I want (and even pay for it), would they hold it there while I make my decision on the setting? If I end up wanting the WF setting 2 days from now, will they be willing to hold it until then, or ship it out at that time? I've reserved it until today, but not sure if they would extend the reservation for me for longer while I make my setting decision.

I would not put tanzanite in a daily wear ring.
I have had great experiences with my custom made stuff, but make sure every step of the process you and your jeweler are on the same page. ( get things in WRITING before anything starts )
sapphires or diamonds are going to stand the test of time. If you want a tanzanite jewelry item, do a necklace. You have a lot more flexibility for design with a necklace and it will not get bumped and dinged like a ring can.

Yes I may go with sapphire, even if I do the custom route locally. But again, keep in mind, this tanzanite will be on the INSIDE of the band - it won't ever be hit or touched by anything except the fiance's skin. That's why I thought other than having issues while setting the stone, I wouldn't expect any damage to it...

P.S. Another possibility to explore with WF: ask them if Stuller (a wholesaler, to the trade only, that WF has ordered from & whose ring settings are moderately priced, a good value) has any "surprise stone" settings that are similar to the 2 Vatché ones you like. The online catalog is a PIA for finding something like that, but WF undoubtedly has Stuller's paper catalogs at hand, or has someone on staff who could ascertain, more quickly than I can, what there is along these lines.

Thanks Molly! The thing is, if I go with WF, I'll go with the Vatche for sure. I don't mind the price of the setting that much, it's just more the hassle afterwards to get it rezied, repaired, etc...and having to mail it back there. Wish I lived in Texas right now!

 

[ChristineRose]

Personally I don't think there are any "fake" tanzanites. The alternatives just do not look like a tanzanite. Of course in a little melee stone it's harder to tell.

Some jewelers will set them; some won't. Some jewelers want you to sign a waiver of some sort. Some people have more success wearing soft stones; some people manage to destroy their hard stones.

But a little tanzanite costs about $1 so it's mainly about the amount of emotion and hassle you will have to go through having it replaced.

 

[AlexOnFire]

So I've purchased the diamond but WF is holding it for me while I decide on what route I'm going with the setting. Either through them, or locally. I'm going to try and stop by the local jeweller here and if he's able to provide warranty, a good way to guarantee it looks how I want it to look (wax) and can do something to my liking, I may just do that as he told me he will set the tanzanite in there, and if anything happens down the road, he can always replace it or put in a sapphire or something else.

Though I know I probably won't get the Vatche quality workmanship

 

[farrahlyn]

So I've purchased the diamond but WF is holding it for me while I decide on what route I'm going with the setting. Either through them, or locally. I'm going to try and stop by the local jeweller here and if he's able to provide warranty, a good way to guarantee it looks how I want it to look (wax) and can do something to my liking, I may just do that as he told me he will set the tanzanite in there, and if anything happens down the road, he can always replace it or put in a sapphire or something else.

Though I know I probably won't get the Vatche quality workmanship

i totally get that you want to do the tanzanite for sentimental reasons... but you have seen some really good reasons NOT to. i think if it were me, i would be really upset to damage a sentimental stone set into an e-ring and that likelihood is pretty high from what i gather. i'd be sad to replace that sentimental item in my ring with another type of stone. Why not go with the Vatche setting (the swan is one if my FAVORITES!!) and gift her with a tanzanite necklace as a wedding gift? Or include the necklace as a gift along with the engagement ring?

 

[AlexOnFire]

i totally get that you want to do the tanzanite for sentimental reasons... but you have seen some really good reasons NOT to. i think if it were me, i would be really upset to damage a sentimental stone set into an e-ring and that likelihood is pretty high from what i gather. i'd be sad to replace that sentimental item in my ring with another type of stone. Why not go with the Vatche setting (the swan is one if my FAVORITES!!) and gift her with a tanzanite necklace as a wedding gift? Or include the necklace as a gift along with the engagement ring?

Thanks for the advice! I know, I feel the same way as you but because the local jewelleries said he can do it, it's making me want to try But I am still torn so maybe I'll spend the day to think and perhaps go with tanzanite earrings with the ring. I guess I could always get the vatche and down the road, see if a local jeweler could just set one into the shank, that way I still get a beautiful ring, and a possibility of a tanzanite to try

Also, I plan on the Swan, but with black diamonds in the gallery - thoughts? Black diamonds are big with the girlfriend and I was worried about light not shining through to the center stone but WF assured me that wouldn't be the case by having black gallery diamonds. Any thoughts on this? I can't seem to find a mockup or sample of the Swan setting with black gallery stones.

 

[rockysalamander]

If she likes the black diamonds...then go for it. Just be aware at the small size they will really just look like black dots. Can WF source really well cut ones? That may help. Also, have a look at dark gray diamonds. Not sure about melee, but they have tons more life than black. Dark grey spinel might also work.

 

[AlexOnFire]

If she likes the black diamonds...then go for it. Just be aware at the small size they will really just look like black dots. Can WF source really well cut ones? That may help. Also, have a look at dark gray diamonds. Not sure about melee, but they have tons more life than black. Dark grey spinel might also work.

Thanks. I actually started a new thread with the question about the black diamonds here, and have received lots of input as well as photoshop from WF. They will source high quality stones and they will be well cut for sure. And yes, she loves black diamonds, and if I were to go with anything other than black diamonds, it would be white (since I can't have tanzanite set there due to softness and future-proofness.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-diamonds-take-away-from-center-stone.231422/

 

[pearaffair]

You are so thoughtful, but please consider how sad your gf would be if she wore the ring with tanzanites and she felt responsible for damaging them. It's setting her up for that emotional loss, if you ask me.

I adore the suggestion of gifting her earrings or a necklace win tanzanites - could be a wedding day present or a sneaky engagement misdirect to throw her off the scent!

You are clearly putting a lot of thought into this and I think that's so great. I live in Canada, too, so I feel your pain on the cross-border purchases. I'd still go for the Vatche because quality trumps everything.