Obama’s hidden Iran deal giveaway

[redwood66]

Obama wanted this deal at all costs and was not truthful to Americans or Congress about how it got done. The fact that these guys are still out there doing what they do is disgraceful.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/24/obama-iran-nuclear-deal-prisoner-release-236966

 

[AnnaH]

While I'm glad our five hostages were released, Iran soon arrested, I think it was, three more Americans. No doubt, Iran was looking for another huge ransom.
In light of that, what did we really get from the deal? Appears to me only bragging rights for Obama. Kicking the can down the road--that's hardly brag worthy.

 

[Tekate]

Obama wanted this deal at all costs and was not truthful to Americans or Congress about how it got done. The fact that these guys are still out there doing what they do is disgraceful.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/24/obama-iran-nuclear-deal-prisoner-release-236966

This just seems to bother right wingers. Seems much ado about nothing. Also has unnamed sources etc. Let's see what Trumpty Dumpty does.

Red, to some people in the world WE the US look like aggressors.. war mongers...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...074c3645405_story.html?utm_term=.66db037e38af

 

[Tekate]

While I'm glad our five hostages were released, Iran soon arrested, I think it was, three more Americans. No doubt, Iran was looking for another huge ransom.
In light of that, what did we really get from the deal? Appears to me only bragging rights for Obama. Kicking the can down the road--that's hardly brag worthy.

maybe, maybe not.. at the time it was brag worthy.

 

[AnnaH]

Kate, at the time, we didn't know much about the secret deal. But it never looked good to many.
Hard to understand why you are so dismissive about the danger of a nuclear Iran.

 

[redwood66]

This just seems to bother right wingers. Seems much ado about nothing. Also has unnamed sources etc. Let's see what Trumpty Dumpty does.

Red, to some people in the world WE the US look like aggressors.. war mongers...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...074c3645405_story.html?utm_term=.66db037e38af

Were these 14 they forgot (lied) to tell anyone about threats to national security or businessmen because his administration called them both those names? People who deal in parts to make IEDs and nuclear weapon materials are hardly businessmen. Or maybe just global entrepreneurs? I can't read the WaPo article.

 

[Tekate]

Were these 14 they forgot (lied) to tell anyone about threats to national security or businessmen because his administration called them both those names? People who deal in parts to make IEDs and nuclear weapon materials are hardly businessmen. Or maybe just global entrepreneurs? I can't read the WaPo article.

As I said, I can't get worked up about it.. There are hundreds who can take their place.. We got some people back.. I only find conservatives getting all worked up about this. Maybe when the Tiimes or WaPo has an article tomorrow it will shed more light for me, as it stands now everything I try to find has either Red, Liberty, theright, truth, alert or free in it, all codes to me for right wing. I don't get as worried about 'our safety' as we have the biggest arsenal of atomic bombs...

 

[Tekate]

Kate, at the time, we didn't know much about the secret deal. But it never looked good to many.
Hard to understand why you are so dismissive about the danger of a nuclear Iran.

Why are you worried about a nuclear Iran? I cannot get worked up over it. Can you get worked up over Russia? India? Once nukes start flying it won't end till it's a wasteland imo.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ussia-dominate-nuclear-weapons-list/95768258/

 

[Tekate]

Kate, at the time, we didn't know much about the secret deal. But it never looked good to many.
Hard to understand why you are so dismissive about the danger of a nuclear Iran.

This basically echoes my thoughts on Iran and the nuke problem.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0216/What-would-happen-if-Iran-had-the-bomb-video

Yet it is also far from likely – even if Iran were to build a nuclear arsenal. In fact, say analysts and nonproliferation experts who have studied the effect of the bomb on countries, coexisting with a nuclear-armed Iran – or at least a nuclear-capable Iran – may well be possible, even inevitable, whether a military strike delays that outcome or not.

Analysts say Iran is not an irrational, suicidal actor that can't be deterred. Nor do they believe it is determined to destroy Israel at all costs. A recent Israeli think tank simulation of "the day after" an Iranian nuclear test came to the same conclusion: that nuclear annihilation will not automatically result.

 

[redwood66]

As I said, I can't get worked up about it.. There are hundreds who can take their place.. We got some people back.. I only find conservatives getting all worked up about this. Maybe when the Tiimes or WaPo has an article tomorrow it will shed more light for me, as it stands now everything I try to find has either Red, Liberty, theright, truth, alert or free in it, all codes to me for right wing. I don't get as worried about 'our safety' as we have the biggest arsenal of atomic bombs...

Politico is hardly a right wing site. This was their investigation.

 

[AnnaH]

Don't know about you, Kate, but certainly many on the left say they are worried about Trump starting a nuclear war. I suspect it may be feigned worry for most.
So, you have no concerns about the Iranian deal? Not the secrecy, the lies, the pallets of cash, the release of dangerous criminals?

Politico is considered a left leaning source.

The USA and Russia have had nuclear weapons for decades, as you know. Iran and North Korea are very different.

Red, when I can't access a source, I google. Usually works.

 

[Tekate]

Politico is hardly a right wing site. This was their investigation.

Yeah, but they are hardly left either and as I said, this isn't a big deal to me...

 

[Tekate]

Don't know about you, Kate, but certainly many on the left say they are worried about Trump starting a nuclear war. I suspect it may be feigned worry for most.
So, you have no concerns about the Iranian deal? Not the secrecy, the lies, the pallets of cash, the release of dangerous criminals?

Politico is considered a left leaning source.

The USA and Russia have had nuclear weapons for decades, as you know. Iran and North Korea are very different.

Red, when I can't access a source, I google. Usually works.

Yes, I think you are correct, but I'm not really worried about a nuclear war with Iran that he's moving towards.. Trumpsky is moving towards a knock heads with china and russia. and we all have bombs.. lots of them.. the minority of people who voted trump in WANT war, they want to walk loudly and clearly walk with a big stick (bomb), they don't believe all that much in diplomacy, they think Obama was chickensh--. To me this is EXACTLY what the right wants.. a loud, war mongering, kick butting, think later, liar.. well they got him, too bad for me I'm stuck as I voted for Clinton. The people who believe Trump is doing a good job like to hear words like WALL, LOCK, LAFFER CURVE, TAXES TOO HIGH, BEST EVER, MUSLIM, TERRORISM, JOBS, BRING BACK, etc... these words resonate with the Trump voters, they feel empowered, they never think of the consequence of doing things. So be it..

 

[Tekate]

Don't know about you, Kate, but certainly many on the left say they are worried about Trump starting a nuclear war. I suspect it may be feigned worry for most.
So, you have no concerns about the Iranian deal? Not the secrecy, the lies, the pallets of cash, the release of dangerous criminals?

Politico is considered a left leaning source.

The USA and Russia have had nuclear weapons for decades, as you know. Iran and North Korea are very different.

Red, when I can't access a source, I google. Usually works.

What pallets of money?

 

[AnnaH]

Kate, the Trump voters you know are very different from the ones I know, and I know many.

 

[AnnaH]

The 400 million in cash secretly flown into Iran by the Obama administration.

 

[Tekate]

The 400 million in cash secretly flown into Iran by the Obama administration.

Why did that bother you? All I read was it was owed.

 

[redwood66]

Yes, I think you are correct, but I'm not really worried about a nuclear war with Iran that he's moving towards.. Trumpsky is moving towards a knock heads with china and russia. and we all have bombs.. lots of them.. the minority of people who voted trump in WANT war, they want to walk loudly and clearly walk with a big stick (bomb), they don't believe all that much in diplomacy, they think Obama was chickensh--. To me this is EXACTLY what the right wants.. a loud, war mongering, kick butting, think later, liar.. well they got him, too bad for me I'm stuck as I voted for Clinton. The people who believe Trump is doing a good job like to hear words like WALL, LOCK, LAFFER CURVE, TAXES TOO HIGH, BEST EVER, MUSLIM, TERRORISM, JOBS, BRING BACK, etc... these words resonate with the Trump voters, they feel empowered, they never think of the consequence of doing things. So be it..

I don't want war, my son is serving and if there is war his brother gets called back immediately because of his clearance and training. But I want other countries to respect the fact that we won't be walked on either.

 

[Tekate]

I don't want war, my son is serving and if there is war his brother gets called back immediately because of his clearance and training. But I want other countries to respect the fact that we won't be walked on either.

I don't want my sons to serve, and neither ever showed any inclination. I don't think in my adult years have I ever that we were walked on except when Carter was president and the hostages were being held, while I felt Carter was right in trying to solve it diplomatically I wished he had been more forceful. Might over right never wins.

 

[AnnaH]

Kate, its true that the Obama administration explained (after the fact) that the money was owed, not a ransom. However, that's not how it was seen by Iran who continues to take more hostages.

 

[redwood66]

We see it differently then as far as our position in the world. Other countries are fine with letting us handle the cost of being the globe's policeman. If we stopped I am not sure what would happen. My sons are proud to serve.

 

[Tekate]

Kate, the Trump voters you know are very different from the ones I know, and I know many.

Not me, the Trump voters I know, and there are many, many all want STRENGTH! they want leaderhsip! they want JOBS! etc.. and btw they are mostly guys my age.. two have 4 year degrees... one thing that all my friends who are trump troglodytes is they are mostlly men.. a few women, mostly women who's SO served in Viet Nam... I find to that many of the people I know, my age that voted for Trump can't believe the world has changed since 68..

 

[redwood66]

Why did that bother you? All I read was it was owed.

Owed for planes that never should have been sold to them in the first place. If you turn out to be a terrorist country IMO you forfeit any money owed in that transaction. Just like drug dealer property seizures.

 

[Tekate]

Kate, its true that the Obama administration explained (after the fact) that the money was owed, not a ransom. However, that's not how it was seen by Iran who continues to take more hostages.

I don't know how it was seen in Iran.. the money was owed and Obama was smart enough to pay it back (plus 1 billion in interest) when the opportunity arose that we would get something.. We should have paid it back before actually, but hey it worked.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-calls-400-million-payment-iran-ransom/

 

[Tekate]

Owed for planes that never should have been sold to them in the first place. If you turn out to be a terrorist country IMO you forfeit any money owed in that transaction. Just like drug dealer property seizures.

Well, when countries buy something, they expect to get what they bought or their money back, that's just how business runs.

 

[Tekate]

Owed for planes that never should have been sold to them in the first place. If you turn out to be a terrorist country IMO you forfeit any money owed in that transaction. Just like drug dealer property seizures.

Also when they were sold it was to the good old Shah who was outsted before they were delivered, before 79 we were best buds with the Shah.

 

[Tekate]

We see it differently then as far as our position in the world. Other countries are fine with letting us handle the cost of being the globe's policeman. If we stopped I am not sure what would happen. My sons are proud to serve.

I've never said other countries don't want us to be the world's police dept although I DO think we liked being STRONG!. Remember the WAR ON COMMUNISM! ... we were staunch defenders of democracy... we took that challenge up... what I think you are saying is that you are an isolationist.. you want for us to close the borders and ensure the safety of our people and not to help any countries that are running amok (like the Sunni vs Shiite crazy derriered muslims).. I'm all for muslims killing each other and helping those muslims who don't want to be part of the big dumb fight between the two factions... it would be great for us to stay out of the middle east unless in humanitarian ways.

Now to our European allies.. that is a tough one for me.. sure we can not bother to be part of NATO.. but then again, is that beneficial.. I don't think so but if it plays out it does.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/01/04/sunni-vs-shia-rivalry-as-old-as-islam.html

 

[Tekate]

Kate, its true that the Obama administration explained (after the fact) that the money was owed, not a ransom. However, that's not how it was seen by Iran who continues to take more hostages.

Hostage taking by Iran and also by the Daesh is how they make a lot of money. Hopefully Trump will get them home.

 

[AnnaH]

"Hopefully Trump will get them home."
Your mouth to God's ear.

Again, your experience with Trump voters is very different from mine. Don't know where you've been hanging out.

Kate and Red, I agree that we should avoid conflict wherever we can, certainly in the Middle East. Building back our military, I think, is the best way to do that as that works as a deterrent.

 

[Tekate]

"Hopefully Trump will get them home."
Your mouth to God's ear.

Again, your experience with Trump voters is very different from mine. Don't know where you've been hanging out.

Kate and Red, I agree that we should avoid conflict wherever we can, certainly in the Middle East. Building back our military, I think, is the best way to do that as that works as a deterrent.

I hang out in Austin Texas, Portland Maine, Washington DC, Brooklyn NY, and the Southbury CT area

Where you been hanging out Anna? I'd like to read what your Trump friends are like and why they would support him.