Help selecting a large blue sapphire

[AdrianT]

Hi there! I have been lurking on PriceScope for a while now and would first like to say a big thank you to all of you who have been so kind and patient helping others like me. I have learned a lot from you.

I have been searching for a large (approx 5-7 ct) unheated royal blue sapphire for the center stone of an engagement ring for my girlfriend but am beginning to get a little overwhelmed. I am finding it difficult to put aside my inclination for perfectionism, but also feel I should be able to find something with few flaws, given my budget (up to approx $50k).

Inventory is not very broad at this size of stone, but I have seen a few nice stones, albeit there has generally been something lacking in each case that has put me off. Can I realistically expect to find something without obvious flaws at this size/price?

I have (hopefully!) attached a photo of two stones I saw which I initially liked. I eventually decided the stone on the right was cut too shallow and has too large a window. The stone on the left also has a bit of a window and some slight color zoning, which is not terrible, but was noticeable to me (it's just about possible to see it in the lower right corner on the second photo). How much do you think these detract from the quality of the stone? Am I being too picky?

My main criticism of the stones I have seen that would otherwise have met my criteria is that they have generally not been cut very well, so I am now very tempted to work with a lapidary to try and source something for recut. I have heard good things about Jeff White so wondered if any of you have experience working with him on a large stone? I have also been very impressed by some of the concave cuts I have seen online. Are there other lapidaries I should be considering? What should I reasonably expect to spend on a high quality stone in this size? Is my budget realistic?

Two royal blue sapphires

• AdrianT
• Mar 25, 2017

Two royal blue sapphires v2

• AdrianT
• Mar 25, 2017

 

[AdrianT]

This is another stone I found, which is from Burma (nice) but I think has a bit of a strange cut, in that the table has ten sides, rather than the usual eight. Any thoughts? It has a good depth ratio (73%) but still has a little bit of windowing. I love the color though. It is slightly outside my price range, but I could possibly go for it at a push.

Burmese blue sapphire v2

• AdrianT
• Mar 25, 2017

Burmese blue sapphire

• AdrianT
• Mar 25, 2017

 

[gingercurls]

Hi Adrian. Welcome to Pricescope! I cannot speak about your budget but I did work with Jeff White on a large blue unheated sapphire and on several other stones. The sapphire that I commissioned from Jeff wound up being a little over five carats. The process started with Jeff sending me several pictures of native cut stones in his inventory that matched what I wanted in terms of color, clarity, and lack of treatment. I was able to ask him many questions about the anticipated dimensions and weight of the stone. About a month and a half after I sent in the deposit Jeff finished the stone. Jeff is absolutely amazing to work with and has excellent customer service. I cannot recommend him enough!

 

[AdrianT]

Last photo for now... I think you can see the windowing in this one. The top stone is the Burmese one, the middle stone is the one from my first post, and the bottom one is another (admittedly rather lovely) heated stone I saw.

Three royal blue sapphires

• AdrianT
• Mar 25, 2017

Thanks gingercurls! That is great to hear! How did your stone turn out? Do you have any photos on here?

 

[VapidLapid]

Welcome Adrian,

While tastes will vary, I know that for me the stones you pictured would be much too dark. And while that might be advantageous with the windowed one, which which is so dark I couldn't see the window, I think you will find that, especially at the size you want, this tone will be near black in nearly all lighting situations. Most of the fine sapphire producing countries do not allow the export of uncut stones, so anything you have cut is likely to be a recut of a native cut stone. In addition to Jeff White you should contact Gary Braun of Finewater Gems. He has some contacts who are able to source such material for him, if it is available. Also Multicolour has this stone which is a little deep and would benefit from a small reshaping of the pavilion which would eradicate the tiny window.

http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/sapphire/bs10313aa/&1624187289


Stones also tend to darken a little in the setting with some settings having a more darkening effect than others. It might be useful to keep that in mind when judging the stones unset. It is also good to ask lots of questions. For example the stone from multicolour I just posted, I would ask him if the stone has the violet modifier that I see in the photo. Sometimes colors that are only reflections of things that were in the room when the photo was shot present as integral properties of the stone but are only side effects of the photography. So ask lots of questions even if you think the answers are self evident. Do you know already what your girlfriend's priorities, preferences and tastes are for the stone? Does she like them overly dark like Princess Diana's? If so then I wouldn't pay quite the premium as I would for one that was robust in tone and color in all lighting environments.

 

[distracts]

Well, neither of the stones in your first picture look like what I'd call "royal blue." They look dark blue. Even the one in the second post seems on the darker side of royal blue - maybe the pictures just aren't doing it justice? Any of those I would expect to black out in even moderately low lighting, and for me at least I really prefer to have stones that don't do that. (eta: of the three in the post you made while I was typing, I like the bottom one the best.) Of course, if you like and want the darker ones, then go for them, and ignore our commentary on that aspect!

This is what I would consider a true royal blue:

Prima Gems usually seems to have quite a few large royal blue sapphires but you'll need to call or email them as most of their stuff isn't posted online. (Or if you are in NYC, visit them.) They are super nice and I've bought from them many times (not ever a sapphire though).

It is possible to find decently-cut native-cut sapphires but you often have to look through a number of them.

@gingercurls I can't seem to find any SMTB threads for these Jeff White stones??? Do you have them posted here?

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

How about this--- an already-made ring on 1st dibs.

https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rin...oval-blue-sapphire-cluster-ring/id-j_2558433/

 

[Bex]

I agree with the other posters that the ones you posted look overly dark.

At that size, and with a healthy budget, it's probably a good idea to reach out to a few cutters and see if you can commission a stone.

If you're considering an already-set stone, this one is gorgeous and within your price range: https://www.langantiques.com/vintag...ngs/7-14-carat-sapphire-and-diamond-ring.html

 

[arkieb1]

If I had a budget like that there is no way I'd buy a sapphire that dark. You should be after one that is a nice vivid colour in all lighting and never blacks out indoors. And it should not have big dead black patches of extinction in it either for that price. You should be looking for something between the cornflower and the velvet range on Richard Hughes Lotus Lab chart. In fact he was the person that found the stone above, the emerald cut one for a P/Ser so with that budget contacting him might be another really good option. Google Lotus Lab and email him via that, he usually takes a day or two to respond.

 

[distracts]

Does she like them overly dark like Princess Diana's? If so then I wouldn't pay quite the premium as I would for one that was robust in tone and color in all lighting environments.

Yes - this. Liking dark stones is fine as color is a personal preference but you should not need to pay quite so much for something so dark.

AJs has this one which I think looks rather nice: http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-5.37-carats.html
AfricaGems has this which looks kind of dark but if you like that it is fine, and it seems more reasonably priced for a dark and large stone: http://www.africagems.com/blue-sapphire-g2000-1109.html
And those two vendors are usually on the higher side of prices, so from this if you like something darker I would be hesitant to pay much over $30k for that size at the level of darkness of all your originally posted stones.

 

[arkieb1]

If you are after a true darker Royal one I know someone selling one (not me) that is better than you two on your hand above you can find my contact details via Loupetroop same name, I can give you their details.

 

[Greenmailer]

AdrianT, Just wanted to pipe in, as I recently ran across what I consider to be a nearly ideal-colored sapphire that fits your parameters at a B&M store here in Chicago. It is a bit above your budget (but south of $60k), has a gorgeous color, is unheated, and comes with an AGL Prestige report. I stopped in to chat with the store about it after seeing it in the window on my way to lunch one day. Potential issues for you are that the stone is already set (in a ballerina setting), and is cut quite deeply, so it may not face up as large as you would like. That said, it is a fabulous stone, and might be worth a phone call. I saw it at Golden Dream Jewelers at 3 S Wabash. No affiliation - just a long-time gem collector and sapphire enthusiast in Chicago. Good luck with your search!

 

[SparkliesLuver]

I'd highly recommend contacting Elle of The Gemstone Project (https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheGemstoneProject?ref=hp_rv) and have her ask Mayer & Watt (http://mayerandwatt.com/gemstones/stones-photo-gallery/sapphire/) what they have. They have an incredible inventory, most of which isn't represented online. I'd start there. If they don't have anything, I second gingercurls' advice to contact Jeff White. Between those two vendors, I know you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[AdrianT]

Thank you so much for the helpful responses! I agree that the stones I have seen have been on the darker side. I am not wholly averse to that, though it would obviously be good if that meant I could preserve some of my budget.

@VapidLapid That's a nice stone, but a little lighter than we were looking for.

@distracts The stone/photo you posted has a lovely color, but I suspect may be heated? We are definitely looking for something unheated, and I think that means saturation may be harder to find. The links you posted are all cushion cut too, whereas we are very set on an oval cut.

@gemandjewelrylover I like the ring you posted but my partner and I have already chosen a setting, and the six carats of diamonds in this ring is I think contributing a lot to the cost. The stone on its own would be a candidate if it could be purchased separately (unlikely) although it does look like there are some pretty obvious inclusions.

@Bex I love the stone/ring you posted, albeit the stone is heated. This is very close to what I am looking for though. We have our own setting in mind, though this is lovely too... If I could find an unheated stone like this that would be perfect.

Looking at the chart posted by @arkieb1 I like all of the peacock, velvet and royal colors (though the royal looks to me as though it has a little violet hue to it). It is good to have a name for these!

@Greenmailer Thank you for the lead. I will see if they can send me some photos.

@SparkliesLuver Thank you for the lead. I noticed that Mayer & Watt do not seem to have many larger stones though.

Again, thanks all for your help. It's great to have input from others!

 

[distracts]

The stone I posted is unheated. Good color doesn't always mean heated - that is absolutely a color that can be found in an unheated stone. Here is the thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-7-stone-emerald-cut-blue-sapphire-ring.175313/

Again, if you haven't contacted these gem sellers, you can't really know that they don't have larger stones - both Prima and Mayer & Watt only have an incredibly, insanely small amount of their stones online. Prima has less than 1% of their stones online, I'd guess, for instance.

 

[indigoblue]

Remember Justin Cutter? He had quite the adventure finding the right stone for his girlfriend's engagement ring, but it turned out to be gorgeous.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/5-58-ct-blue-sapphire-gemsthailand.163440/

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

Arian,
I've spent 40k on a few select sapphires over a year and learned a lot. But 60k on one stone would have me sweating. Have you considered hiring somebody trustworthy to protect yourself without ruining the fun part? People on PS are terrifically helpful but it only goes so far. Have a look here: www.wildfishgems.com/gem_hunting down in Option 2.
I imagine there must be others offering consulting services like that? Anybody? It should be a booming business with all the confusion about colors and treatmentts and whatnot and then comes payments and transport and customs and insurances and all with 50k hanging in the wind? I'd sweat.

 

[chrono]

For stones of higher calibre, I would contact these 2 vendors:
http://www.constantinwild.com/en/
http://highperformancediamonds.com/contact-us/ (yes, it is a diamond website but he's CS deep down).

 

[AdrianT]

Hi all, thanks so much for all your help and suggestions. I've followed up on a number of these leads and have certainly seen some better stones than those I saw previously.

I am now very much drawn towards this 4.5ct stone (a little smaller than I originally planned, but it was of a higher caliber and was a little more expensive per carat than other inferior stones I have seen).

Any thoughts? Obviously difficult to tell from a photo, but this particular stone is from Richard Orbach, who I understand is well respected (he used to run Cherrypicked, which is now trading as CushionGem). He is definitely on the pricier side, but the stones I have seen do seem to be of a very high quality.

This is the same stone on his site:
https://www.cushiongem.com/sapphire/454-oval-sapphire

@chrono Melissa at high performance diamonds.com could not have been more helpful. She found a really lovely concave cut from Richard Homer (albeit heated and round) which I liked a lot. My girlfriend was less keen and is after something more traditional, but I may well go back for some earrings...

 

[chrono]

I'm sure the stone is pricey but no harm seeing it in person.

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

Yes, most beautiful gems on that site. Unfortunately no returns from international buyers, or I would like to see what the extra $$$ buy there.

 

[AdrianT]

Sorry, I should have been clearer that the photo above is mine (I went in and met Richard and looked at a few stones, this one being my favorite). I don't see any obvious flaws with this stone and the colour is rich and lively (if perhaps dark for some other people's tastes).

I guess I was just hoping for a little reassurance that I am not out of my mind!

 

[minousbijoux]

Love the velvety look of the rich color. It does look like it leans to the dark side, though.

 

[Burmesedaze]

This is a gorgeous sapphire and if I didn't know better, I'd have thought it came from the Baw Mar mine in Mogok, Myanmar.

 

[AdrianT]

Hi all, with apologies for the delay, I just wanted to let you know that I did indeed go for the 4.5ct from CushionGem and it is now the pride and joy of my wife to be!

We're both really pleased with it and how it came out in the setting. The colour is really lovely and the photos just don't do it justice. Fiancée has had so many complements on the ring and the stone and we often see people staring at it when we are talking to them. It's quite something!

Thanks you all so much for your input!

Here is the ring in its finished form:



And here is another that shows off the setting:

 

[Austina]

Wow, stunning!

 

[minousbijoux]

Congratulations!

 

[elle_71125]

Congratulations! It's gorgeous!

 

[Acinom]

What a gorgeous ring!!!! Both the stone as well as the setting are amazing. Thank you for sharing the pics. Please share a lot more

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

Top! Top! Isn't it amazing how much fun one can get from such a gem? They are expensive, yes, but then many things are expensive.
If I theoretically multiplicate the minutes of pure joy I have when looking at a certain gem for x$, then I get a good deal of fun/$, don't I? And that will increase tenfold when my wife gets her first ring and I see it on her daily, and see her joy on top.
I'm pretty sure many bad movies I spent money on, will not make the cut of fun/$ compared with my gems. Or bad dinners (with digestive problems afterwards), or rotten holidays or.... the list would be endless... I should have bought only gems all my life. period.