Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cut?

[klif01]

So thanks to a very helpful redditor who spent a lot of time answering questions who seemed very knowledgable I have learned far more than I expected to about diamonds. For one, it pisses me off because the amount of jewelry stores I have been to have been so anti education. I want to know what all the numbers mean, what the acronyms mean etc. I'm hoping through this forum I can at least learn a little more and get a couple more opinions.

So I have the opportunity to buy a diamond, setting will come later. The following are the specs from the report.

Cut (Shape and Style) ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat Weight 1.19 CT
Clarity Grade VS2
Color Grade H
PROPORTIONS
Measurements 6.87 x 6.76 x 4.18 mm
Table 61%
Depth 61.3%
Crown Height 11.9%
Crown Angle 31°
Pavilion Depth 44.5%
Pavilion Angle 42°
Girdle THIN TO THICK
Culet VERY SMALL
OBSERVATIONS
Finish
Polish GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence NONE

The biggest things that stand out are the table, and the culet. How much am I going to notice these issues on the actual fire/brilliance? I have been to three stores with this information and none of them were able to speak about it. (I didn't mention at first that I had a diamond in mind, I brought up the numbers once we actually got to review the report for the diamonds we were talking about) Also, only one of them knew what the Holloway cut advisor was but didn't feel like it was a very important tool.


FYI, this diamond is an EGL USA report.
My price, through family, is comparable to GIA 1.00 CT, very good cut, J, SI2 GIA, diamonds.


Thanks for your time!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

Pass. Run away AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

That diamond is terrible. Just terrible.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

That stone is a 60/60 style stone. Which is fine. But very few 60/60 style stones are good performers, and that one is NOT AT ALL going to be a good performer, forget a great one. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond


Here is what you need to know:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL] and
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want? Well first you want to stick to stones that have a crown angle of 34 (33.5 okay for 60/60 style stones) and over, a pavilion angle of 41 and under, and no deeper than 62.5
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

More on why EGL should be avoided:
People suing over their EGL certified stones: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]
EGL banned from Rapnet: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

Additional helpful information: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

Whole thread of helpful threads: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/helpful-threads-archive.72078/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/helpful-threads-archive.72078/[/URL]

Additional information for you, this time on color.
Here's what you need to know about color

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.



If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

Darn it Gypsy, you didn't leave anything for the rest of us to say....

Wink

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

LOL! This one is an easy one. We see posts like this every other day. Thankfully the posters want more knowledge. And by now... I've got it all in an easy to cut and paste format, so there's no typing anymore.

I've been doing this a looooooooooooooooooooooong time Wink as you know! So it's just easier if I do it. And leave the more complicated stuff (like this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/experts-needed-on-diamond-proportions.210439/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/experts-needed-on-diamond-proportions.210439/[/URL] ) to you all to duke it out.



One last thing on Cut:



Read here: http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut

AGS0 (.80 ct) versus GIA VG cut (1.00 ct). The diamond you posted would not qualify for GIA Ex. See below how important cut is to the appearance of the diamond:

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

This stone is ...

 

[kb1gra]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

Why do people insist that their family members, who have maybe bought one diamond thirty years ago, are at all qualified to recommend someone to sell a diamond? Or to know that they "got a good deal?"

I'll never get it. I don't buy horses on the advice of people who rode one once when they were a kid. Why do people always think that this is some kind of deal?

 

[ame]

Re: Reddit directed me here, engagement ring, not perfect cu

So thanks to a very helpful redditor who spent a lot of time answering questions who seemed very knowledgable I have learned far more than I expected to about diamonds. For one, it pisses me off because the amount of jewelry stores I have been to have been so anti education. I want to know what all the numbers mean, what the acronyms mean etc. I'm hoping through this forum I can at least learn a little more and get a couple more opinions.

So I have the opportunity to buy a diamond, setting will come later. The following are the specs from the report.

Cut (Shape and Style) ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat Weight 1.19 CT
Clarity Grade VS2
Color Grade H
PROPORTIONS
Measurements 6.87 x 6.76 x 4.18 mm
Table 61%
Depth 61.3%
Crown Height 11.9%
Crown Angle 31°
Pavilion Depth 44.5%
Pavilion Angle 42°
Girdle THIN TO THICK
Culet VERY SMALL
OBSERVATIONS
Finish
Polish GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence NONE

The biggest things that stand out are the table, and the culet. How much am I going to notice these issues on the actual fire/brilliance? I have been to three stores with this information and none of them were able to speak about it. (I didn't mention at first that I had a diamond in mind, I brought up the numbers once we actually got to review the report for the diamonds we were talking about) Also, only one of them knew what the Holloway cut advisor was but didn't feel like it was a very important tool.


FYI, this diamond is an EGL USA report.
My price, through family, is comparable to GIA 1.00 CT, very good cut, J, SI2 GIA, diamonds.


Thanks for your time!

Yay!!! WELCOME! I am so glad you made it over! You're going to get LOTS of info and LOTS of education here. Wink is a true gentleman and a real gem of a professional. Gypsy is a prosumer, and will obviously bombard you with information. You'll likely (hopefully) get a few more tradesmen in here before this thread is up.

I am glad this is at least an EGL-USA. You had originally said EGL, which is not around anymore. EGL-USA is a different entity. But like I told you earlier about this one---NO.

Should you proceed in purchasing through your source, at least you can go back with the data you learn here and ask for a better option.