Need your advice on this Pear

[ssp721]

Hey folks,

this is my first post here at PriceScope.

I am in the market to purchase a Pear shape diamond for building an engagement ring (near future) and i think i know what I want in terms of my criteria. Originally I wanted to be right under the 1.5 ct, H color and SI1 clarity. However, with more research i found that i could still balance (and find just as beautful stones) by sacrificing some of those C's to get a better value for my money. My budget is $7.5k for the rock,


Anyways, I have found one that has caught my attention and wanted another layer of advice/opinions.

Pear shape
1.7 carat
J color
SI1
MED FLUOR**
Depth 62
Table 59
L/W Ratio 1.46

I have been told that the diamond is 100% eye clean and a Minimal Bow tie.
**I purposely have been searching for Flouro in my diamonds, since i am going lower in color

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.70-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-sku-286859

What are your thoughts?

 

[drk14]

Welcome to PS!

First, is this ring for you or for your significant other, and if the latter, are you both jointly involved in the selection process? The reason I ask is that selection of color (and other parameters, such as L/W ratio) depends on personal preference, and individuals can have very different opinions about what they like.

Second, pointy (so-called "fancy") shapes of diamonds tend to concentrate the color more than rounds, so most people who shop for fancy cuts tend to be more conservative in their color selection. So what can happen with pears, is that you get a differential of color, i.e., while the round part of the pear may look white, the pointy end looks noticeably tinted. I suspect that the "trick" of using fluorescence to offset lower colors mostly works with round diamonds, and may not be so effective with pears.

Third, it is difficult to find a pear diamond that will be bright and scintillate throughout the whole body of the pear. Most pears look best in the "belly"/bowtie region, but can be very dull/dead in the pointy end as well as in the opposite, round end (the "head", or sometimes referred to on PS as the "butt" ). So in my opinon, the pear that you found is not bad, especially for that size/price point combination. However, you can probably find a pear with somewhat better light performance if you extend your budget, or reduce your expectations on carat weight.

There are several other pear experts on here who know much more than me, and you should be getting some excellent advice from them shortly.

 

[ssp721]

Thanks for the insight drk!

Yes, I am looking to purchase for my gf.
My approach to this entire process was for her to get what she ideally likes (loves) I want her to love this shaped diamond, since it will be with her for a very long time! We went ring shopping multiple times and she does love Pears after physically seeing them and how they look on her finger/hand.
We both collectively want a decent size (1.4+) , white (ish), eye clean pear, just shy of the ideal proportion (1.5) ..she is all about the balance!

In terms of specs, I am pretty much handling the decisions, and I also want to keep that balance. (although recently, I have been leaning towards a larger size)

 

[Niel]

This is a bit long, but i think it has a LOT of potential.


http://www.ritani.com/diamonds/pear-diamond-1-51-Carat-I-color-GIA-certified/D-T1SYQ3

 

[ssp721]

Niel,

Yeah that rock is way too long for me (l/w ratio is 1.9)
the ideal to fine range is between 1.45-1.65

 

[Niel]

Niel,

Yeah that rock is way too long for me (l/w ratio is 1.9)
the ideal to fine range is between 1.45-1.65

according to you or something thing you read? according to you? thats cool, but if youre basing it off some thing you read - LxW ratio is all personal prefferense, if you like a 1.9, then theres is nothing wrong with it. Just like if you like a 1.3

Because you can find a lot of duds in the "ideal to fine " range.

I was trying to find you think nicest performing stone in your budget.

 

[ssp721]

Niel I completely agree with you, as I have learned, for fancys at least, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Some like it stubby, equal and long.

But yes, I would prefer to stay in that range, since I do like the near perfect tear drop shape.

 

[Calliecake]

SSP, it's great that she had tried some pears on her hand. I had wanted one as well and after trying them on soon realized I was picky about the shaped I wanted. You won't know what you like until you try different ones one. I ended up throwing industry standards out the window and bought what looked prettiest on my hand.

A friend of mine very recently upgraded her diamond and changed her shape to a pear. She said she also could not believe how picky she was regarding her preference. I think with pear shapes it really comes down to personal preference.

I am by no means an expert. The experts may tell you something completely different.

 

[ssp721]

Thanks Callie

Where are all of my Pear Experts at? I need your help
I just received the microscopic image of this diamond and I need someone to assess it, please!

 

[drk14]

Thanks Callie

Where are all of my Pear Experts at? I need your help
I just received the microscopic image of this diamond and I need someone to assess it, please!

Go ahead and post the image. You'll be surprised how much more response you get to images than text & numbers on PS.

And you're in luck, Niel is online right now, she's one of the top pear-ologists on PS.

 

[Calliecake]

Hang tight. Niel just popped in another thread and said she will be joining soon.

 

[ssp721]

Here's the image

 

[drk14]

Which pear is this? The 1.70ct J-SI1 from JA? I've never seen JA provide this kind of micrograph image.

 

[ssp721]

Which pear is this? The 1.70ct J-SI1 from JA? I've never seen JA provide this kind of micrograph image.

Yes, this is the same pear from my orginal post (1.7 J SI1 from JA)
What do you think?

Here's the 40x zoom image:

 

[ssp721]

anybody???

 

[drk14]

Here's the image

Well this is very confusing.

Was the above picture originally in color (with green and red and a bit of blue)? This looks like nothing I've seen from JA before. When you make an image request from them, they usually provide an ASET image, which is a color image with red, green and blue zones.

You need to go back and ask them to provide you with a color ASET. And ask them what that black and white image was. It might be a microscope image, but that won't really tell is much more than the 40X photo already does.

 

[ssp721]

Well this is very confusing.

Was the above picture originally in color (with green and red and a bit of blue)? This looks like nothing I've seen from JA before. When you make an image request from them, they usually provide an ASET image, which is a color image with red, green and blue zones.

You need to go back and ask them to provide you with a color ASET. And ask them what that black and white image was. It might be a microscope image, but that won't really tell is much more than the 40X photo already does.

drk14,

Let me explain what happened.
So I saw this diamond on JA first on Monday, I spoke to JA to have them pull the diamond and have done the ASET, Sarin and gemologist review. This part from JA is still in process as they have not sent me any ASET,Sarin images, yet.

In parallel, I have been working with a jeweler here. So based on my change for the diamond search, I asked him to see what else fit my new critera. He pulled up a list from RAPNET.

Coincidentally, I noticed the same stone appeared in his RAPNET search results. Everything matched (dimensions, proportions color etc)
So I quickly realized JA had to be doing the same, getting from a 3rd party. It was the same diamond!

My jeweler provided me with the GIA Cert, which was the same as JA's.
He also send me the microscopic image, which was an attachment in RAPNET for this diamond.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[drk14]

My jeweler provided me with the GIA Cert, which was the same as JA's.
He also send me the microscopic image, which was an attachment in RAPNET for this diamond.

OK, this explains it. Basically, the microscopic image provided by the jeweler tells us nothing that we didn't already know from the JA 40X image. And it tells us even less than does the JA 360 view.

You're right that most PS vendors (and most B&M vendors) offer for sale so-called "virtual" diamonds that are physically located elsewhere. Some vendors have exclusivity agreements with certain sources, so that the "virtual" diamonds from that source are only available from one vendor. However, more commonly, the same diamond can be purchased from multiple sources.

If you're thinking of buying the 1.7 J SI1 from your local jeweler, then it's not really fair to ask JA to do all the imaging work and gemological evaluation for you free of charge. Too many people doing this kind of thing in the past is why customers are now only allowed to request a maximum of 3 ASETs from JA, and why respected vendors like GOG now charge a non-refundable search fee before they even start evaluating any diamonds for prospective customers.

 

[ssp721]

If you're thinking of buying the 1.7 J SI1 from your local jeweler, then it's not really fair to ask JA to do all the imaging work and gemological evaluation for you free of charge. Too many people doing this kind of thing in the past is why customers are now only allowed to request a maximum of 3 ASETs from JA, and why respected vendors like GOG now charge a non-refundable search fee before they even start evaluating any diamonds for prospective customers.

No, I will not be buying through the jeweler, it was helpful that he was able to provide me a microscopic image (btw, the jeweler charges me a fee to bring it in also), If everything goes well I will buy from JA. Ive got to say though, JA has been really helpful and able to answer all of my questions, so far so good.
This is actually my first time requesting ASET/Sarin for a diamond, since Ive been pretty interested in it. I can see how people abuse this, thus resulting in vendors to charge per evaluation.

Also, I saw almost the exact specs on BN vendor, however it was a 1.7 J VS2 with Strong FL and it still was cheaper than the price for this diamond on JA. I asked if there was a price match or that sort, so JA went ahead and discounted me based on the 'competitors price'. Which was really nice of them.

My jeweler quoted me higher than JA, this was pretty obvious.
In Final, I will buy thru JA.

 

[ssp721]

Can someone please give me their opinion, review or overall value for this particular diamond? I will post the ASET and Sarin once I get them.

Although I do prefer this diamond/specs/proportions, I am not as advanced as many of you in here, any feedback I receive will help me to determine if I should make a move on this diamond.

FYI, I am looking to mount this onto a halo setting, with a pave band (I want the halo band and band to be thin)

Thanks!

 

[tyty333]

Post the aset when you get it. I think the stone has a lovely shape and the bow tie is fairly bright but
I'm not that fond of the faceting pattern in the stone. It's not a nice transition between the larger
Bow tie facets and the very fine pinpoint facets in the point and at the very far end on the rounded side.
It is nicer than a lot of pears youll find but its not the best (which is very dfficult to find).

 

[drk14]

ssp721,

My review/opinion of this 1.70ct pear remains unchanged from my first post (the relevant part of which is copied below. As for "value", in my opinion, JA diamonds are priced fairly, so the "value" would be whatever their asking price is.

Until you post the ASET, we can't really say anything else.

Second, pointy (so-called "fancy") shapes of diamonds tend to concentrate the color more than rounds, so most people who shop for fancy cuts tend to be more conservative in their color selection. So what can happen with pears, is that you get a differential of color, i.e., while the round part of the pear may look white, the pointy end looks noticeably tinted. I suspect that the "trick" of using fluorescence to offset lower colors mostly works with round diamonds, and may not be so effective with pears.

Third, it is difficult to find a pear diamond that will be bright and scintillate throughout the whole body of the pear. Most pears look best in the "belly"/bowtie region, but can be very dull/dead in the pointy end as well as in the opposite, round end (the "head", or sometimes referred to on PS as the "butt" ). So in my opinon, the pear that you found is not bad, especially for that size/price point combination. However, you can probably find a pear with somewhat better light performance if you extend your budget, or reduce your expectations on carat weight.

 

[ssp721]

Here you go, guys. Just received the ASET, Sarin and Gemologist review for this diamond.




Gemologist review: "As I am sure you expected after reviewing the images, the gemologist found the 1.70 carat-J-SI1 to be the liveliest performer. It has a great amount of brilliance (white light return), fire (dispersion of color) and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. There is a very slight bowtie in the diamond; however, it is not offensive and the inclusions diamond blend well; meaning that it faces up "eye clean". The fluorescence in the diamond is not negatively affecting the diamond in anyway; but it is facing up a higher "J" (closer to an "I") and is a nice white color"

Thanks again for your feedback!

 

[drk14]

Gemologist review: "As I am sure you expected after reviewing the images, the gemologist found the 1.70 carat-J-SI1 to be the liveliest performer. It has a great amount of brilliance (white light return), fire (dispersion of color) and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. There is a very slight bowtie in the diamond; however, it is not offensive and the inclusions diamond blend well; meaning that it faces up "eye clean". The fluorescence in the diamond is not negatively affecting the diamond in anyway; but it is facing up a higher "J" (closer to an "I") and is a nice white color"

Did you have two other pears imaged and reviewed? Would you mind sharing those as well, for context? The JA gemologists (in my personal opinon, based on reading a lot of JA gemologist reviews that have been posted on PS) are pretty good at picking out the best of the three they are given, but I've never seen one of them say that all three diamonds reviewed are dogs. So depending on how good/bad the other two ASETs are (and the gemologist's comments on those diamonds), that would allow me to better gauge how to interpret what they said about their favorite.

My own opinion after seeing your ASET is not changed. The ASET doesn't look bad for a pear, it could be a bit better, but there are certainly a lot worse ones out there. Overall, if you want a diamond this size at that price, you've found a pretty nice pear. You could probably find one with somewhat better light performance, but it would likely be either smaller or more expensive.

 

[ssp721]

Did you have two other pears imaged and reviewed? Would you mind sharing those as well, for context?

Sure, here is the full review of all 3 of the diamonds I had requested.

"(1) As I am sure you expected after reviewing the images, the gemologist found the 1.70 carat-J-SI1 (diamond 286859; $7,290) to be the liveliest performer. It has a great amount of brilliance (white light return), fire (dispersion of color) and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. There is a very slight bowtie in the diamond; however, it is not offensive and the inclusions diamond blend well; meaning that it faces up "eye clean". The fluorescence in the diamond is not negatively affecting the diamond in anyway; but it is facing up a higher "J" (closer to an "I") and is a nice white color.
(2) The 1.50 carat-J-SI1 (diamond 286836; $6,070) is a close second. It too has a great amount of brilliance, fire and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. The only reason that it is a second best is due to it being a true "J" and while it is mostly a nice white color; there is a little warmth in the point. The bowtie in this diamond is also minimal and not offensive; as well as "eye clean".
(3) The 1.55 carat-I-SI1 (diamond 312446; $7,290) is a very beatuiful option; however, next to these two it is a third best. It has a more noticeable bowtie than the others and the feather in the diamond is more easily seen. The gemologist feels that only a keen eye would be able to pick up on it. It is also a lower "J" color (closer to a "K") and has the most warmth of the three diamonds."

ASETs
(1)

(2)

(3)

 

[drk14]

If you have the links to those other two JA pears, would you mind posting them? The SKU's don't come up in JA's search, because you have these diamonds on hold.

That extra info (links to the high-def images and videos of the other pears) will be helpful, but in the end, I don't think it will sway my opinion. I think you've found a pretty good combination of spread/performance/price in that 1.70ct diamond. We might be able to find you something with slightly better light return in, say, the 1.5ct range. However, even if you wanted to go that route, it would be difficult to pursue any such options, because you've now used up your alotted 3 ASETs from JA.

The JA gemologists (in my personal opinon, based on reading a lot of JA gemologist reviews that have been posted on PS) are pretty good at picking out the best of the three they are given, but I've never seen one of them say that all three diamonds reviewed are dogs. So depending on how good/bad the other two ASETs are (and the gemologist's comments on those diamonds), that would allow me to better gauge how to interpret what they said about their favorite.

After writing the above, I came across an old post by Niel in which she states that she has seen examples of JA not recommending any of the three reserved diamonds ("I've seen others deal with them where they have been blatantly honest, to the point where they did not recommend any reserved stones and lost that sale.").

 

[ssp721]

Thanks drk!
Heres the links to the other 2.

(2) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.50-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-sku-286836

(3) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.55-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-312446

Honestly, the one I have chosen (1.7 J SI1) just sits well with all of the combinations (carat, price, performance, spread). I feel like it is nicely balanced in all aspects, unless someone can tell me differently or point out what they really DONT like about it.
I really do like it and I am getting closer towards pulling the trigger.

Also, does this look like it would be a 1.7 to you guys? Rather than a 1.5 or something, if so then I would go lower on carat to save more $.

 

[drk14]

Thanks for the links, that was helpful.

Frankly, JA currently only has six unsold/unreserved 1.7ct+ pears less than $8k, and "your" 1.70ct pear is better than all of those, unless you were in the mood to do something more unconventional:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/fancy-color/yellow/pear-shaped/1.70-carat-sku-172303

Also, does this look like it would be a 1.7 to you guys? Rather than a 1.5 or something, if so then I would go lower on carat to save more $.

That's an interesting question. What should a "1.7" look like? Well, compared to a 1.5ct diamond, 1.7ct is 13% more diamond mass (and hence, volume). If two pear diamonds have the exact same shape (percentages, angles, and ratios), then a 1.7ct pear should have a face-up spread (i.e., projected area) that is 9% larger than an equivalent 1.5ct pear. Similarly, a 1.7ct pear is expected to have 6% more spread than an equivalent 1.55ct pear.

Now, compared to the 1.50ct pear in your selection, your 1.70ct pear is only 6% larger in spread. On the other hand, compared to the 1.55ct diamond in your selection, your 1.70ct pear is 9% larger in spread. So either the 1.50ct pear faces up large for its weight (while your 1.70 ct pear is "normal" in size), or the 1.70ct pear faces up small for its weight (if you consider the 1.50ct pear to have "normal" spread). Likewise, either the 1.55ct pear faces up small for its weight (if your 1.70 ct pear is "normal" in size), or the 1.70ct pear faces up large for its weight (if the 1.55ct pear is "normal" in size).

The bottom line is that the difference in spread between the 1.7ct and the two smaller diamonds appears to be consistent with what one would expect for a 1.7ct diamond, and should represent a perceptible difference if you place the diamonds side-by-side. Nonetheless, a 6%-9% difference in spread is not huge.

 

[ssp721]

Drk,

Thanks, but no thanks on that 'beautiful' stone you recommended

Anyways, I really appreciate your highly detailed feedback. It was a whole lot of whoa-ness!

I wanted to ask you, are there any other questions I should be asking JA that we dont know about this diamond?

Also, based on how you said the difference between a 1.5 and 1.7 is only 6-9%, it wouldnt hurt to go down in size, perhaps back to a 1.5 range. Ive seen very similar specs for about a $1000 less.

If you come across any AMAZING pears in that 1.5 range with similar specs, could you please send it over to me?

 

[drk14]

Drk,
Thanks, but no thanks on that 'beautiful' stone you recommended

Haha, I actually like it! It's almost like a little alien head. Yea, probably wouldn't work for an engagement ring.

I wanted to ask you, are there any other questions I should be asking JA that we dont know about this diamond?

The main thing I'd be curious is if there is a noticeable change in color from white to tinted as you compare the belly and point regions of the pear.

Also, in case you're still considering the other two pears as options, you should have them clarify if they really meant to say that the 'I'-colored diamond is "a lower 'J' color (closer to a 'K')," or if they meant it's a lower I, closer to a J.

Also, based on how you said the difference between a 1.5 and 1.7 is only 6-9%, it wouldnt hurt to go down in size, perhaps back to a 1.5 range. Ive seen very similar specs for about a $1000 less.

If you come across any AMAZING pears in that 1.5 range with similar specs, could you please send it over to me?

I don't see anything "amazing" in the $6k-$8k range that's near 1.5ct. You'd have to go down to 1.00-1.25ct range to have a large enough pool of candidate stones within your budget that there would be a reasonable chance to find something exceptional.

So again, you're lucky to have found such a large pear diamond in your budget that not only faces up whiter than it's graded color, but also has respectable light return performance for a pear.