Carat Size - not sure anymore

looking4d · Dec 5, 2010

Ok, I'm in a tough situation here.
First, I will say, I know that carat size is not directly tied to how "big" the diamond, looks because of the porportions.

Im pretty settled on the other 3 Cs: (for a round brilliant stone)
Clarity - vs2
color - H
Cut - excellent/ideal

When I first mentioned engagement rings with my girlfriend she said she wants a ring thats between 1.25 and 1.5 carats. That lead to some disagreements because I felt it was shallow to have those requirements, and I knew part of the reason is because her friends all got big rings (her friends are all married to well off people).

After a number of disagreements, now she is saying that her view changed and she is fine with a .97 (which she will round up to say its 1 carat). Of course now Im feeling guilty.

I'm torn between wanting to make her happy and still being "smart" (this is a bad economy, plus we have to pay for a wedding, house next year, etc).

So whats a good size/compromise then? I was initially thinking 1.1 or maybe 1.2

She looked at a 1.01 and a 1.27 yesterday and said she couldn't see much of a size difference.
If thats true, then isnt it a waste to get a 1.1, if its going to look very similiar to a .96?

Thanks

slg47 · Dec 5, 2010

maye bump clarity down to eye-clean SI1, if she wants a larger diamond? I mean ultimately a 1.3 will look close to a 1.2, a 1.2 will look close to a 1.1, a 1.1 will look close to a 1.0, etc...but a 1.3 will look larger than a 1.0...

antelope1 · Dec 5, 2010

I would buy from a vendor with a good upgrade policy, and get a simple setting. It sounds like you're going to have to promise to upgrade in a few years.

Alternatively, she could get the smaller diamond in a halo, which would increase finger coverage and give the carat more "presence" on her finger -- but her friends might view this as filler.

Or I would get her an "alternative" ring -- sapphires are in right now, and much more affordable. Even Kate Middelton has Princess Di's sapphire. If you got her a 2-3 ct sapphire in a halo setting, it would be "different" not "cheaper" in the eyes of her friends. Check this thread out: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jeff-whites-sapphire-is-set.153109/?hilit=sapphire']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jeff-whites-sapphire-is-set.153109/?hilit=sapphire[/URL]

And she could always move that ring to her right hand later on, should you save up the cash to plunk out for a 1.5 ct RB.

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

OK- it seems as though size is pretty important to her.... so some suggestions:

1. Bump down clarity to SI1 or even SI2- but make sure it is eyeclean. I have a SI2 eyeclean- can see the inclusions through the side pavilion but not when looking down. This allowed me an increase in size. As long as I am not staring down at glaring inclusions I was happy with this trade off.

2. Go with a simple less expensive setting- whiteflash has simple four and size prong settings for like $200-300 that way whatever budget you have - you can devote practically the entire budget to the stone. If she wants a setting with pave or side stones, that can be saved for a special anniversary when the fianance and economy are better.

3. If getting an ideal cut stone- the stone will look whiter than a fair-good cut stone....so maybe dropping to an I? I would only do that though if you need to in order to get the "bigger" stone she desires..

4. Upgrade policy? If you buy from a vendor with a great upgrade policy maybe you can increase the diamond size and bump her up for a special occasion or anniversary??

I think that 1.2 is a big looking stone... you will tell the difference by sight from a .97 and a 1.2... From her remarks of at east 1.5ct...and then sayong well a .97 would be fine too I will round up to 1ct when telling people- I feel that size is one of her sticking points.

But just from

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

a halo is a thought too. If you are going with a .95-.97 stone that is a great size to halo and make the ring bigger looking. You will get that 1.3-1.5 feel...for way less of the cost.

MarkBroumand · Dec 5, 2010

Depending on your budget, definitely bumping a VS2 to an eye-clean SI will give you some room to go a little bigger. Seems important to her to a least be able to say she has a 1ct center.

Upgrade policy would be an important factor here.

IceExplorer · Dec 5, 2010

1) I think you should definitely look for the best upgrade policy you can find.
2) Consider lowing some of the specs to allow for increased size.
3) A halo setting would definitely make it look larger.

If you don't mind sharing your budget, I'm sure many of the great members here could help shop for some GREAT value while maximizing your carats.

H
VS2
.97-1.24 carats
3,170.00 - 8,928.00

H
SI1/SI2
.97 - 1.24 carats
2705.00 - 8162.00

I did a couple of quick searches to show you the wide range of options you have here.

Frenchcut · Dec 5, 2010

Anything above 0.9 carat will look very nice and not "cheap". Maybe you can "sell" her the idea of a future upgrade, and also suggest a wedding band with diamond pave that will improve the bling factor.

looking4d · Dec 5, 2010

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies.

She wants a plain round stone, nothing else, no side stones, etc, so no halos, and no sapphires....plain setting.
The only jewelry she wears are earrings (no watch even) so she wants it plain. (then why a big stone, it'll just get in her way!!)

She has small hands too (size 5.25 ring) so whatever the size, it will look big.

I'll be honest, I dont have a firm "budget", I wanted to stay less than 10k, which with my specs (ideal/excellent cut, VS2, H color) should be pretty easy.
Of course, with a budget of 10k, it doesnt mean I would WANT to spend 10k, if I could spend 2k I'd be happier (of course she wouldn't)

My main question is...how much bigger should the stone be?
Like I said, yesterday she said the 1.01 and 1.27 looked the same size.

In that case, why would I buy the 1.27, if the 1.01 looked the same?

So what size would LOOK (be noticeable) bigger than the 1 carat? (so if ppl see it they think, "thats Big")
Is 1.1 enough for it to be noticed?
Or do I need to bump up to 1.2? or 1.3?

I think I can lower the color down to a I, but I want to stay within VS2, just to "be safe".
As for eye clean...thats tough to verify...since Im planning on getting it from Blue Nile (which if I use the Discover Card, I get 10% cashback, thats pretty good!)

Thanks everyone! (I think Im overthinking this whole thing)

Frenchcut · Dec 5, 2010

I paid a visit to a jeweller yesterday and he showed me various stones between 0.7 and 1.2 carat. I couldn't tell the difference between a 0.9 and a 1.0 carat stone but the size difference between a 1.0 and a 1.2 carat was noticeable...

Circe · Dec 5, 2010

This is just a thought, but if you guys have had disagreements over the potential shallowness of the desire for a bigger stone ... perhaps she's saying they look the same because she doesn't want to rock the boat, hurt your feelings, or make you feel pressured?

I think there's definitely a visible difference between a 1 carat stone and a 1.25 carat stone, and again, a 1.5 carat stone.

As for why she might want a bigger stone? Part of it might just be what people around here call the "mind-clean" issue. Sure, a lot of people can't tell the difference between a D and a G ... but sometimes people want the D's anyway, because in their heads, those are the best. Ditto clarity (and, dude, having bought VS2 and SI1 in similar sizes - if size is a concern, GET THE SI1: I gemuinely can't see my inclusions without my loupe, and I'm an eagle-eyed jewelry freak). And as for size? Maybe it can be seen as shallow, but it can also be an aesthetic preference: I have hands about the same size as your GFs, and I can see some sizes looking potentially disproportionate, depending on settings. Does that mean they WOULD be, really, given that these are purely luxury items? Heck, no! But given where I live and what I see around me and what, as a result of that, pleases my eye ... yeah, when I got engaged and my husband-to-be asked me what I wanted, I, too, was between a carat and a carat and a half.

So, my suggestion? Go with SI1 clarity. Consider looking at some of the lower color grades - Is are generally seen as pretty safe if you want something that faces up white, and Js can be very pleasing, too (full discolure: happy J owner here). If you want it to face up whiter yet, consider getting a stone with blue fluorescence. Get the best cut you can, since that makes a stone look bigger and brighter. And, within those parameters and what you feel comfortable spending, get her the biggest stone you can - NOT because you're trying to "keep up with the Joneses," or whatever, and not because it's shallow, but just because it's pretty and it'll make her happy.

Once you figure out if you want to change parameters, I'm sure you'll have a ton of suggestions - good luck!

antelope1 · Dec 5, 2010

1) BN with 10% off is still more than you would pay for the exact same diamond at other online merchants. It seems like a deal, but it's not.

2) If you can afford it (and for $10k you can definitely afford it), you should get her what she wants. I think you could even go to 1.5-1.7 carats and get her something that she would be proud to wear for the rest of her life. Like this ideal cut, 1.5ct I VS2:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808004

My 2 cents.

looking4d · Dec 5, 2010

Hi again:

>but the size difference between a 1.0 and a 1.2 carat was noticeable...

Ok...so maybe a 1.2 then

>This is just a thought, but if you guys have had disagreements over the potential shallowness of the desire for a bigger stone ... perhaps she's saying they look the same because she doesn't want to rock the boat, hurt your feelings, or make you feel pressured?
>

I believe this is the reason, hence my guilty feelings =(

I think Im going to go up to a 1.2 and drop the color to I.
We're asian, so her yellow skin will help to hide the color!

My main concern with SI1 is...yesterday we saw a stone with SI1, and with the loupe I saw a big area of black. Now before I used the loupe it was eye clean, afterwards, I could see the black on the diamond without the loupe. (of course now I KNEW it was there).

She mentioned that she could also see it without the loupe (afterwards when we knew it was there) so I want to avoid anything like that happening.

>1) BN with 10% off is still more than you would pay for the exact same diamond at other online merchants. It seems like a deal, but it's not.

I thought BN would be one of the cheapest due to the fact that they are big like Wal-Mart is cheaper than most mom and pop stores.

I just did a quick search using the tool with these criterias:
carat - 1.2-1.5, color - I, Calrity - vs1/vs2, lab - GIA.

The top 10 results (I clicked in-house)
solomon brothers - 4, ID Jewelry - 1, BN - 5

Now, when I clicked 'search all', BN was not on the first page.

But I like their 30 day return policy...I was initially thinking of Excel diamonds (they have a tiffany setting, and she likes it) but they only have a 10 day return policy, and thats a bit short in my opinion.

I travel every week (sunday night-fri) for work, so we see each other on the weekends only, so I need some more buffer time for the return policy.
Thats one reason why we couldnt go look in the diamond district (even though she lives in NYC) because they all seem to be closed on Sat and Sun.

Thanks

Dreamer_D · Dec 5, 2010

First, I think you should consider a J color stone. You need to ask you gf how serious she is about size. You can get a very large J Si1 for your budget -- well over 1.5ct or else well under 10k. J stones look warm when compared side-by-side with a colorless stone, but should not look tinted to most people and look plenty white if really well cut. This may be a compromise to make both of you happy.

Second, do not concern yourself with the loup if you look for an SI1 diamond. Just use you eyes in many different lighting environments.

Dreamer_D · Dec 5, 2010

BN is not always the least expensive, and they do not offer the same service as you get with some other PS companies, like pictures, idealscope images, and an in person enspection for eye-cleanliness which is essential with an SI stone. I would suggest Excel or ID over BN. I also like James Allen a lot.

IceExplorer · Dec 5, 2010

Just to give you some reference.

My fiance has small hands. Her ring is 4.75 with sizing beads bringing it down to 4.25.
This is a link to her finger shots.

The diamond is 1.215 carats.

After seeing it complete on her hand, I think it is a little bit of over kill. I could have saved some money on the size.

This might help you with perspective on diamond size vs. finger size.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finger-shots-custom-bgd-round-micro-pave.139453/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finger-shots-custom-bgd-round-micro-pave.139453/[/URL]

For what it's worth. I know your lovely GF would love a huge rock. Most women do. Don't feel bad if you're being practical because you have a wedding and a house to pay for too. Life is expensive and it's easy to get caught up with little shiny things. (That won't be the most appreciated response here!!) I for one can appreciate your concern your what is coming and needs to be spent in the future.

JulieN · Dec 5, 2010

I would just get her what she wants and drop it to an I, SI grading.

looking4d · Dec 5, 2010

>First, I think you should consider a J color stone

My gf said that she doesnt want it below I.
I spoke to her earlier on the phone, she said that yesterday, when she looked at some I stones from the side, she could see some color and she doesnt like it.

>I would suggest Excel or ID over BN. I also like James Allen a lot.

Those 4 are actually the 4 I had in mind before I talked to her about it. I emailed her the 4 sites and asked her to go and check out the settings from each.
She didnt like the settings from ID.
My gf liked the Tiffany setting from Excel,
BUT their return policy is too short for me. Its only 10 days...my gf and I see each other every 6 days, so the window to return is VERY tiny for us.
I wanted to go with James Allen first, then I got my Discover Card statement and inside it said that I get 10% cashback if I buy from BN.
So that tipped it from JA to BN.

BUT, now Im looking at BN some more and they are stricter to where they ship the diamonds. (the shipping address must be listed with your credit card)
Because I am out of town for work mon-fri, I was going to have the ring (like my other internet orders) shipped to my hotel.
So...I might have to switch back to James Allen because they can ship to my hotel.

Geeze, who knew picking a vendor (without even getting to the diamond part) was so tough!

>After seeing it complete on her hand, I think it is a little bit of over kill. I could have saved some money on the size.

The ring does look big!
Yeah, so Im thinking 1.2 is a good size for her.

Ice - thanks for understanding about this economy!

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

I think you need to set a guide for yourself, i.e I am willing to spend up to $xxxxxx, and I would like to get her up to 1.2ct I VS2. I understand wanting to spend as little as possible- BUT this is an important purchase something your FI will be wearing forever. Even if you think it is shallow to want 1.2-1.5 carats, it is clearly important to her.

That said- I think you need to find a number you are willing to spend up until, and then your goal of what you want (Ideal cut- I --VS2--1.2) BUy what you can for your budget! Don't spend a penny more than you are comfortable with- but also- don't buy her a .9ct stone for 2,000 (well under what you said you can afford) just because you don't want to spend it. You dont want her to feel like you could have easily afforded to get her something better- or what she wanted but chose not to....

sparkie · Dec 5, 2010

Have you checked out Whiteflash as well?

They have got a good selection and so far, I have had very good service from them.

If your gf is sensitive about colour, then I would suggest that you stick to H and above.

Here's a good looking 1.15ct G VS2 from WF.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2424937.htm

IceExplorer · Dec 5, 2010

looking4d|1291592499|2788275 said:
>
The ring does look big!
Yeah, so Im thinking 1.2 is a good size for her.

Ice - thanks for understanding about this economy!

I'm not just understanding about the the 'economy' I'm living it (I'm about 8 months ahead of you)!! With engagements and weddings, there seems to be NO ROOM for compromise. They are such emotional times.
The logic of: I'll get her the bigger diamond and not spend as much on center pieces, dinner or flowers for the wedding...NEVER HAPPENS. Then it will be: I'll get the expensive center pieces, dinner and flowers then save on the honey moon...NOPE, that won't happen either. Each moment is very very emotional and important to the process of your marriage. It's good to be as practical as you reasonably can throughout each step of the process.

Just a heads up for the review period.
Working with some of the smaller pricescope vendors (James Allen, Brian Gavin, ID Jewelry, GOG etc...) might offer you some flexibility based on your circumstance.

I'm Canadian and worked with Lesley at Brian Gavin Diamonds. Because I was in a similar position to you, with regards to location and time constraints, they shipped to a 3rd Party appraiser (in the USA). It allowed them to hold it for me until I could go there and then they shipped it back for me. I got a phone call when it showed up, I booked an appointment, reviewed the stone and they shipped it back for me.
That situation worked really well for me and might be helpful for you given your situation.
The nice thing about the 3rd party appraiser is the company you choose to deal with knows you can't take off with their diamond!

That mad

MarkBroumand · Dec 5, 2010

looking4d|1291589118|2788231 said:
My main concern with SI1 is...yesterday we saw a stone with SI1, and with the loupe I saw a big area of black. Now before I used the loupe it was eye clean, afterwards, I could see the black on the diamond without the loupe. (of course now I KNEW it was there).

She mentioned that she could also see it without the loupe (afterwards when we knew it was there) so I want to avoid anything like that happening.

You have lots of room in your budget to play around with. I understand your experience with the SI1 diamond you saw, however, there are definitely a lot of SI's with different types of inclusions and that truly are eye clean. So I wouldn't rule them out completely. Just make sure you deal with a trustworthy vendor who can check the eye-cleanliness for you.

Good luck!

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

Eilonwy · Dec 5, 2010

I don't think that it is shallow for your GF to want to fit in with her other friends. It's human nature to want to feel equal to the people that you spend most of your time with. It might be shallow if she insisted on double what they have! I don't think that it is a good idea to settle for the smaller stone, because she will always feel like there is something missing. Not to mention - if she has the smaller stone you might find her itching for an upgrade really soon! Definitely go the 1.2 ct and get lower colour/clarity and make up the price - you would be paying less and still giving her exactly what she wants, and don't you want her to be happy? Just make sure that you can return the stone if you are not happy with the way it looks, it's worth waiting a bit longer to go through that process to get a cheaper Si1. As long as you check it thoroughly when you get it and maybe get a local jeweller's opinion. The only thing I wouldn't compromise on is cut.

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

Totally agree......

story: my BFF wanted a three stone ring- an Oval flanked by a RB on each side. When her boyf asked me what she liked I said- she really likes a three stone with an oval and two rb. he went on to say....those are so expensive... yada yada...I (prob should have never said it!) then said, well she also is a fan of the simple tiffany solitaire look- but LOVES the oval and 2 round stones. Well he went on and on about how much more money the three stone ring is.....so he went out and got the tiffany solitaire. Dont get me wrong- she likes her ring---- he likes it and what he paid for it in comparison to the other object--- but all the time behind his back she tells me how she has.... a pair of diamond earrings from her dad and wants to add those stones to her ring--- or inherited stones she wants to set with her stone.. yada yada. Now the FI feels like the ring he got wasn't good enough for her since she tries to tip toe around thinking of ways to make the ring perfect.... and my friend feels cheated that he went with the ring he wanted to pay for and not the ring she really really wanted and hoped for....

just something to consider.

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

sidenote: he could have easily afforded her dream ring- he just didnt' want to spend it.

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

a good possibility- it's 6,750 with PS dicount/wire price- H VS2 1.2 ct- ideal cut

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1341314.asp

you could then get a setting like these-

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...Knife-Edge-18k-White-Gold-Solitaire-Ring.html
$370

that puts you at 7,120

or this setting
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/2mm-Comfort-Fit-White-Gold-Solitaire-Ring.html
$450

that puts you at 7,200

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

another option-

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1284989.asp
6,980 with the pricescope discount

Imdanny · Dec 5, 2010

I say get at least a 1.2. There is a difference between 1.0 and 1.2 visually and you know (or should) it's what would make her happy.

I'd look at Whiteflash ACA and Brian Gavin Signature (because these are good branded cuts and you know what you're getting).

And I'd keep it at H, VS2.

I know you're practical. That's great. But I say if you do this right, she's be happy, and that will be priceless. My 2 cents.

Amys Bling · Dec 5, 2010

nice option from whiteflash... comes out to 6,866.94 with pricescope discounthttp://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2400043.htm

setting options-

wire price 343.00--- total ring =7,100ish
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...ffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-582.htm

wire price 343.00 total ring = 7,100ish
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...ffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-587.htm

Carat Size - not sure anymore

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