Diamond price low, setting High???

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On 10/15/2003 3:13:58 PM fire&ice wrote:

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But what if I am procrasinating & want to drive the point home on more time to pass the time.
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LMAO.......I'm laughing so hard I'm gasping for air.  Sincere thanks for the best laugh I have had all day! 

(I just don't want you to feel neglected....like no one is hearing you.  I hear you.  )

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

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On 10/15/2003 3:18:58 PM spicolicpa wrote:

OK given, I elect to give her the benefit of the doubt...thats my perogative.

Yes, it is your perogative, even if it's incorrect and uninformed and presumptive.

Ummmm the last time I checked 'what did you think it would cost!?' and 'before I cut anything off the price I will scrap the ring'  Sounds pretty much like Bully to me.

It sounds like bully to you because you are ready to lynch with very little factual information in the first place.  Saying "I will scrap the ring before dropping the price" isn't a THREAT to her....it's saying that he would take less of a loss to scrap it then to drop the price.  That would be no different than saying "I cannot sell you the car for $300...I'd scrap it first (perhaps because scrap value would be $450).  It's a cost issue, not necessary the "principle" you seem to want to make it.  As for the cost comment, I've already agreed it was handled poorly, but that's still not bullying. 

Again I gave her the benefit of the doubt, BECAUSE she is the customer and this forum is designed to help and educate customers, not advocate retailers rights.

Right, it's supposed to educate customers....but that doesn't mean blindly agree with everything they say and take it as absolute gospel.  Would YOU make a purchase without knowing how much something was going to cost?  Neither would I......so doesn't it seem just a big ODD to you that this person agreed to the stone price AND agreed to purchase the ring without knowing how much the ring was? 

This site is about customer education....and that means it's not about retailers rights OR customer's "rights", and I say that from the perspective of a customer.  Neither is it about bashing retailers without factual cause.

Giving a customer the benefit of the doubt does not automatically make the vendor wrong/shady/whatever , and it's a long leap from giving the benefit of the doubt to pratically calling for the vendor's head on a stick!

If she did all the things you assume she Could have done, it is still the sellers fault for entering into a business transaction without finalizing all aspects of the sale.
 
No.....as it stands now, it's BOTH of their faults....his for not giving an estimate so she'd be more likely to be satisfied upon completion, and hers for agreeing to pay for a ring without knowing what it costs.  Does "caveat emptor" ring a bell with you at all?

Part of being an accomplished, professional seller is to eliminate all these questions prior to "Building the ring" for his protection

Yup....and part of being a smart, satisfied consumer is knowing what he's buying and at what price *before* he buys it for *his* protection.  It would appear *both* failed spectacularly at their respective roles. 

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_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

Battle the Obfuscation

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On 10/15/2003 3:54:10 PM spicolicpa wrote:

Thanks for agreeing with me

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I didn't agree.....I dont' agree that it was the seller's fault.  I maintain that both parties were equally at fault, based on the information we've been provided.

I do think that customers and vendors both bear responsibility in any transaction.  Vendors are responsible for making sure they get a fair price on their wares, and customers are responsible for making sure they get a fair price on their purchases.  Neither side can do that well when operating uninformed.

I do think it's up to customers to inform themselves prior to purchase.  I don't think it's right to expect vendors to bear the consequences of the customer's ignorance, stupidity, or lack of being informed. 

Similarly, I don't think the customer should bear the brunt of the vendor's ignorance in assuming a customer knows what things run or is as intimately familiar with the subject matter as they are. 

Both were at fault, and subsequently, nobody wins.  That's not a successful transaction.

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

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On 10/15/2003 3:58:48 PM fire&ice wrote:

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Did I mention that we don't have enough information to know whether the setting is overpriced?
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Uh......hmmm.......no......no, I don't recall hearing that previously at all.

Thanks for bringing that to light. 

(I'm having way too much fun with this.....I don't have enough to do, can you tell?)

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

Battle the Obfuscation

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On 10/15/2003 4:38:33 PM spicolicpa wrote:

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Again we are in accord!

Yes customers must come to the bargaining table with honest intentions in thought and deed.

Everything else is on the Seller

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Not quite in accord just yet.  Customer's responsibility is a little more complex than you suggest, in my estimation. 

Customer must come to the bargaining table with honest intentions in thought and deed, yes.  Everything else is on the seller?  NO.

Customer must come with a clear understanding of what they want.  That means he has to educate himself and/or come with a set of questions to help them learn what he doesn't know in order to decide and subsequently communicate what he wants.  Customer has a responsibility to understand the terms of sale, including price, warranty, etc prior to purchase.  Customer must resolve NOT to buy until he's done his homework.    OR alternately, customer does not do homework, makes purchase, but has the grace not to b*tch when he later learns how ill-prepared he was.

Seller must come to tables ALSO with honest intentions.  Seller must accurately represent merchandise and must be clear about terms of sale including price, warranty, etc prior to purchase.  They must be willing to respond to customer questions to assist in purchasing decision.  They must not dupe, deceive, or otherwise intentionally fleece customer.  They must not coerce customers nor instill fear during the purchase process.

That covers most everything.  I just want us to be clear; we do seem to both agree that both parties in a sale bear responsibility, but my scope of customer responsibility is a bit broader than yours. 

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

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On 10/15/2003 5:55:39 PM fire&ice wrote:

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I had to do my assigned beating of the dead horse before signing off.

Also, the retailer is always right. 
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_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

Do me a favor.

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

Sursum Corda!

Mess with Texas.

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On 10/15/2003 7:08:45 PM canadiangrrl wrote:

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Al and F&I, that was the best laugh I've had in days.
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That's great to hear.   Yep, believe me....we're the best cure for a root canal.  How ya doin, kiddo?

If you're enjoyed our little repartee, entertainment donations are always welcome.  Send them to www.downwithuninformedbuyers.com

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

LMAO!

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

Battle the Obfuscation

Sursum Corda!

Mess with Texas.

Battle the Obfuscation

"Where ever you go, there you are."

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On 10/15/2003 9:02:21 PM ss1934 wrote:

I just feel that he doesnt deserve my business

Then don't buy from him.  End of story.

I would have preferred if he upped the price of the rock and lowered the setting to its true and fair value FROM the begining, and we wouldnt even be talking abot this right now.

SS, you still haven't even determined what the "true and fair value" of the setting really is!  So how can you say that?  What are the specs of the baguettes?  How many points are they?  How many grams of platinum is it?  How much is platimum per gram?  What is the per-hour labor rate for the benchman?  Do you see where I'm going.....you have NO idea what this setting is worth because you don't know enough about it.  All you have is a "suspicion" that the setting is overpriced....a suspicion unsupported by any data to date.

And.....are you serious?  The price of the ring is $19,400 right now....$16,700 for the stone and $2700 for the setting.  Are you really saying that you'd feel better if he raised the price on the stone to $17,700 and dropped the setting to $1700?  *What* difference does that make.....it's still freakin' $19,400 total!!!!  This isn't about getting a fair price, it's standing on ceremony.  $19,400 is $19,400.....whether it's all in pennies or in one big fat check.

Do you like the setting?  Is it what you wanted?  Is the total price of $19,400 acceptable to you (regardless of the split)?  If it is, then buy it.  If it isn't, then walk and keep looking.

But he did and right now its a matter of do I discpline him and maybe just maybe hell change his evil ways. or do I just fall into his trap like so many other unsuspecting prey on the  assumption that it is a good deal and I can feel like shit about myself.

If you're going to feel like sh*t making this purchase, then don't do it.  If you feel this guy's business practices are unacceptable, then speak with your dollars and walk them elsewhere.  BUT....if you're only sticking point is that you *think* (but don't know) that the setting is overpriced, you should do more homework and find out what the setting is really worth before you decide it's overpriced.

Again, I'd say buy it with a solid money-back guarantee, get it appraised, and if it's a good deal, keep it.  If not, return for refund.  It's that simple. 

_____________________
Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.

~*~ Dancin Girl ~*~

"I get up ~ I walk ~ I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."