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what is most important for the diamond

P: 8/30/2008 1:54:09 PM
zpak1981 Rough Rock Total Posts: 20 Last Post: 8/30/2008 Member Since: 8/9/2008	cut? number one? then carat? color? clarity? Why? I talked to my friend who has worked in that filed more than 15yrs, she told me cut is not the number one. So I asked her why? She said carat is the number one, but the cut is changed all the time. Whatever GIA or AGS or EGL they change their standard all the time, the only thing you will sure is the carat. I am comfused, because in PS everybody are talking about cut is the number one. Will you more care about the cut or carat?
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:54:09 PM

There are 15 replies to this message. There are 15 replies on this page.

P: 8/30/2008 1:58:37 PM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,222 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 8/30/2008 1:54:09 PM Author:zpak1981 cut? number one? then carat? color? clarity? Why? I talked to my friend who has worked in that filed more than 15yrs, she told me cut is not the number one. So I asked her why? She said carat is the number one, but the cut is changed all the time. Whatever GIA or AGS or EGL they change their standard all the time, the only thing you will sure is the carat. I am comfused, because in PS everybody are talking about cut is the number one. Will you more care about the cut or carat? Zpak, I think you will find here mainly in PS land, that cut is the top priority for most. After all, it is what gives a diamond it's beauty - without as good cut you won't have a pretty stone. Apart from that, folk may have different priorities. Personally, cut is very high on my list - although it does not have to be cut to superideal standards, a nice make of diamond is sufficient for me in order to get my next highest on the list - carat weight! Colour and clarity, I don't mind a lower clarity if eyeclean, and I love a warmer toned diamond. So I think you will get an interesting mix of results, but expect to find most here will put cut first! In the ' real world' then I can imagine that carat is high on many consumer's lists. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 8/30/2008 1:58:37 PM

P: 8/30/2008 2:10:34 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 8/30/2008 1:58:37 PM Author: Lorelei Zpak, I think you will find here mainly in PS land, that cut is the top priority for most. After all, it is what gives a diamond it's beauty - without as good cut you won't have a pretty stone. Apart from that, folk may have different priorities. Personally, cut is very high on my list - although it does not have to be cut to superideal standards, a nice make of diamond is sufficient for me in order to get my next highest on the list - carat weight! Colour and clarity, I don't mind a lower clarity if eyeclean, and I love a warmer toned diamond. So I think you will get an interesting mix of results, but expect to find most here will put cut first! In the ' real world' then I can imagine that carat is high on many consumer's lists. Exactly. You would be shocked at the number of jewelers who just don't "get it" when it comes to diamonds, and what truly makes one beautiful. Many know less than a PS customer, it's sad. I too go for cut first, the rest is personal preference. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 8/30/2008 2:10:34 PM

P: 8/30/2008 2:11:01 PM
denverboy Cut Rock Total Posts: 220 Last Post: 2/5/2009 Member Since: 7/10/2008	you have to weight everything and decide what your personal preferences are... some people want a flawless diamond b/c of the symbolic beauty of it. Some people want the whitest diamond possible while others can't see any color in an I color stone. Some people must have a 1 carat or above stone while others care more about price and cut quality. But you left out one big one... cost. Really though its a combination of everything and what turns out to be top priority for you. But I think you'll find the C's that people are willing to move up and down in order to fit their budget are color and clarity.
Posted: 8/30/2008 2:11:01 PM

P: 8/30/2008 2:19:08 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	And add to everything else, availability. Sometimes you just can't find exactly what you want, and have to make one or more concessions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 8/30/2008 2:19:08 PM

P: 8/30/2008 2:37:29 PM
oldmancoyote Ideal Rock Total Posts: 754 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 8/22/2008	Cut is the most complex attribute of any stone. While a carat is a carat is a fifth of a gram, there are no universal, objective standards for cut quality. In fact, there are no fully "objective" standards for clarity and colour either; grading is still done by human beings who express an opinion. This is why GIA is most insistent that they do not release certificates but grading reports. Having said that, particularly for round brilliants, there has been enough study and investment into developing tools that can arrive to some pretty objective conclusions about colour and cut. Much of this development has been relatively recent, and it has resulted in some changes to grading and classification; however this is not anything new - those that bought "blue white" diamonds in the '60s to the mid '70s were in for a surprise in the '80s, similarly to those who saw their AGS0 diamond turn into AGS1 overnight in 2006. In addition, while light return in different ways/colours is measurable and perhaps even modellable relatively objectively in some cases, there is no accounting for taste. I for one in some cases prefer step cuts that have more of a "black and white" look (and relatively large tables) to stones that show more play of colour. If your friend is right that size is the only thing you can be certain of in objective terms, colour is now not far behind, clarity has well established standards, and cut is following pretty fast (at least in rounds). Of all these, cut remains the one that has most impact: it affects perceived colour, clarity and size, as well as determining how the diamond will look to the greatest extent.
Posted: 8/30/2008 2:37:29 PM

P: 8/30/2008 3:05:58 PM
John Pollard Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,529 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/1/2008	All are important and Denverboy brings up the biggest reality check of all. In my experience I've found that shoppers have, first, a certain size in mind. Not to the hundredth of a carat or anything, but a certain range. The second thing - which is sometimes first - is that they want the diamond to perform. Not in all cases, but presuming that's the situation, it puts carat and cut quality as most important, followed by your preferred range of clarity & color. Clarity: Someone who simply wants eye-clean has a broad range of grades to choose from. Those who prefer a visible inclusion are probably going to want to see the diamond firsthand to make the decision. Color: Those who like icy-whiteness will be drawn to D-F (GIA/AGS grading), but cut quality can extend this range. If you prefer warmth without visible face-up tint you can move into the near-colorless range (presuming top cut quality which shows less face-up color). Those who want size on a budget and don't mind a hint of tint, or prefer it, can go with K and below for performance that remains stunning. Ellen is correct about availability. This is why, presuming size/sparkle are top priorities, it makes sense to consider a range of color and a range of clarity for the carat weight & cut quality youre seeking. On the other hand, if you're color-or-clarity-committed, the above may not resonate with you. Those who absolutely want D - or another color - will sacrifice elsewhere to make it happen. Same with clarity. However, for most people I have interacted with I hear Well, Id like something in about (X) size and I want it to sparkle like crazy. If that's the case I encourage you to seek the best cut in the carat weight you want - and consider available options in the range of color and clarity you're comfortable with. John __________________________ John Pollard Infinity Diamonds www.CraftedByInfinity.com
Posted: 8/30/2008 3:05:58 PM

P: 8/30/2008 5:06:33 PM
Kelli Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,579 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/27/2008	You can have a 3 ct D color flawless clarity diamond, but if it's cut poorly, it won't sparkle. It could be a white and clear, but DULL lifeless rock. A beautiful cut will make it sparkle in ALL kinds of lighting, not just the bright jewelry store lighting that makes anything sparkle. And if you have beautiful sparkle, inclusions and color will be easily hidden underneath all that scintillation. That is why, for me and most PSers, cut is the most important.
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:06:33 PM

P: 8/30/2008 5:52:33 PM
sna77 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,022 Last Post: 7/20/2009 Member Since: 11/2/2006	Date: 8/30/2008 5:06:33 PM Author: Kelli You can have a 3 ct D color flawless clarity diamond, but if it's cut poorly, it won't sparkle. It could be a white and clear, but DULL lifeless rock. A beautiful cut will make it sparkle in ALL kinds of lighting, not just the bright jewelry store lighting that makes anything sparkle. And if you have beautiful sparkle, inclusions and color will be easily hidden underneath all that scintillation. That is why, for me and most PSers, cut is the most important. I'd take that stone and send it out to be re-cut. It'd come back an 2.7ct D, IF. haaa
Posted: 8/30/2008 5:52:33 PM

P: 8/31/2008 8:53:57 PM
marcyc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,820 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 2/27/2007	Date: 8/30/2008 2:10:34 PM Author: Ellen Date: 8/30/2008 1:58:37 PM Author: Lorelei Zpak, I think you will find here mainly in PS land, that cut is the top priority for most. After all, it is what gives a diamond it's beauty - without as good cut you won't have a pretty stone. Apart from that, folk may have different priorities. Personally, cut is very high on my list - although it does not have to be cut to superideal standards, a nice make of diamond is sufficient for me in order to get my next highest on the list - carat weight! Colour and clarity, I don't mind a lower clarity if eyeclean, and I love a warmer toned diamond. So I think you will get an interesting mix of results, but expect to find most here will put cut first! In the ' real world' then I can imagine that carat is high on many consumer's lists. Exactly. You would be shocked at the number of jewelers who just don't 'get it' when it comes to diamonds, and what truly makes one beautiful. Many know less than a PS customer, it's sad. I too go for cut first, the rest is personal preference. Ditto to what our wise Lorelei and Ellen said. I can't tell you the number of people I've talked to in stores that don't have a clue about the importance of the "cut" of a diamond. It is sad. Sparkle On My Friends!
Posted: 8/31/2008 8:53:57 PM

P: 8/31/2008 11:28:29 PM
RBD hunter Rough Rock Total Posts: 46 Last Post: 4/18/2009 Member Since: 8/6/2008	what is most important for the diamond I would think the majority here would say Quality is job #1 (cut, carat, color, clarity,) Certified being 2nd. Size/quanity a close 3rd.
Posted: 8/31/2008 11:28:29 PM

P: 9/1/2008 12:16:50 AM
jewelerman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,192 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/30/2007	Date: 8/30/2008 1:54:09 PM Author:zpak1981 cut? number one? then carat? color? clarity? Why? I talked to my friend who has worked in that filed more than 15yrs, she told me cut is not the number one. So I asked her why? She said carat is the number one, but the cut is changed all the time. Whatever GIA or AGS or EGL they change their standard all the time, the only thing you will sure is the carat. I am comfused, because in PS everybody are talking about cut is the number one. Will you more care about the cut or carat? I agree with many of the responses that have been given by members on this thread....I know that a well cut small diamond will always out perform a poorly cut large diamond with color and clarity being equal.Keep in mind that the gem labs dont change their grading systems all the time.Carat weight is not a factor in grading a diamond...the cut,color and clarity are the factors of quality and these are subjective...carat is is a measurment of weight and is exact and not open to professional opinion.So if you are asking about quality then my professional opinion would be to consider the cut,color and clarity in that order...and in the largest diamond you can afford.
Posted: 9/1/2008 12:16:50 AM

P: 9/1/2008 7:14:57 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,579 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Date: 9/1/2008 12:16:50 AM Author: jewelerman I agree with many of the responses that have been given by members on this thread....I know that a well cut small diamond will always out perform a poorly cut large diamond with color and clarity being equal.Keep in mind that the gem labs dont change their grading systems all the time.Carat weight is not a factor in grading a diamond...the cut,color and clarity are the factors of quality and these are subjective...carat is is a measurment of weight and is exact and not open to professional opinion.So if you are asking about quality then my professional opinion would be to consider the cut,color and clarity in that order...and in the largest diamond you can afford. There was a woman who said as she returned the diamond ring given her by a man "there must be a mistake, this is not my size". The salesperson said, "no prob maam, we will just resize the ring" "No, no, no young man, this is a 1ct size and I take a 5ct size" Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 9/1/2008 7:14:57 AM

P: 9/1/2008 10:15:38 AM
DiaGem Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,927 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 10/21/2004	Date: 9/1/2008 7:14:57 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Date: 9/1/2008 12:16:50 AM Author: jewelerman I agree with many of the responses that have been given by members on this thread....I know that a well cut small diamond will always out perform a poorly cut large diamond with color and clarity being equal.Keep in mind that the gem labs dont change their grading systems all the time.Carat weight is not a factor in grading a diamond...the cut,color and clarity are the factors of quality and these are subjective...carat is is a measurment of weight and is exact and not open to professional opinion.So if you are asking about quality then my professional opinion would be to consider the cut,color and clarity in that order...and in the largest diamond you can afford. There was a woman who said as she returned the diamond ring given her by a man 'there must be a mistake, this is not my size'. The salesperson said, 'no prob maam, we will just resize the ring' 'No, no, no young man, this is a (great cut) 1ct size and I take a (fair cut) 5ct size' ********************** >Y< Yoram F. Antique Diamond Gem http://www.diagem.net/ "When it doesn't exist, design it..." Sir Henry Royce
Posted: 9/1/2008 10:15:38 AM

P: 9/1/2008 1:02:20 PM
jewelerman Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,192 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/30/2007	Date: 9/1/2008 10:15:38 AM Author: DiaGem Date: 9/1/2008 7:14:57 AM Author: Garry H (Cut Nut) Date: 9/1/2008 12:16:50 AM Author: jewelerman I agree with many of the responses that have been given by members on this thread....I know that a well cut small diamond will always out perform a poorly cut large diamond with color and clarity being equal.Keep in mind that the gem labs dont change their grading systems all the time.Carat weight is not a factor in grading a diamond...the cut,color and clarity are the factors of quality and these are subjective...carat is is a measurment of weight and is exact and not open to professional opinion.So if you are asking about quality then my professional opinion would be to consider the cut,color and clarity in that order...and in the largest diamond you can afford. There was a woman who said as she returned the diamond ring given her by a man 'there must be a mistake, this is not my size'. The salesperson said, 'no prob maam, we will just resize the ring' 'No, no, no young man, this is a (great cut) 1ct size and I take a (fair cut) 5ct size' thanks Gary for the story about one of your customers!Im on the phone calling one of my friends who owns a store to tell him your joke...funny stuff.
Posted: 9/1/2008 1:02:20 PM

P: 9/1/2008 6:16:14 PM
Indira-London Cut Rock Total Posts: 307 Last Post: 9/14/2009 Member Since: 6/17/2008	In strong agreement with the previous posters on this thread, CUT quality is KING - it is the KEY to sparkle AND visual apparent size! A well-cut diamond will LOOK bigger and sparkle more than a commercial or average cut larger carat diamond! R This is where I think pictures say it better than words! Regulars to PS will likely have seen this comparison before (photo from PS). The stone on the left is actually smaller carat weight than the one on the right but it looks larger because it has the topmost cut quality and hence is returning light from edge-to-edge. Diamond TRADE prices increase steeply with carat weight as the larger carat weight (when well-cut) the rarer the diamond: e.g. where all other factors are equal: 0.5 carat is only about a QUARTER of the price of 1 carat whilst 0.7 carat is only just under HALF the price of 1 carat whereas 1.5 carats is nearly DOUBLE the price of 1 carat! Visually, a 0.5 carat is ca. 5.1mm diameter, 0.7 carat is ca. 5.8mm diameter, 0.9 carat is ca. 6.3mm diameter, 1 carat is ca. 6.5mm diameter and 1.5 carat is ca. 7.4mm Dr. Indira Marchant The Royal Exchange Best Diamonds
Posted: 9/1/2008 6:16:14 PM

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