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ť Does anyone not like the arrows in a H&A diamond

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Does anyone not like the arrows in a H&A diamond

P: 5/9/2008 2:28:17 PM
DiamondGirly Rough Rock Total Posts: 56 Last Post: 7/17/2008 Member Since: 5/2/2008	I'm not sure how crazy I am about the look of the arrows when the diamond is in the face-up position. I know the cut makes the diamond have improved optics but if you aren't a diamond expert the arrows might look a little odd, no? Just wondering if anyone else feels this way. I saw a video on GOG's website about how a slight change in the pavillion angles can make the arrows appear lighter...that I like. Dark arrows: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/2645/ Lighter arrows: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4368/
Posted: 5/9/2008 2:28:17 PM

There are 82 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 5/9/2008 2:43:26 PM
cectra79 Cut Rock Total Posts: 167 Last Post: 7/11/2008 Member Since: 4/16/2008	I personally like the arrows. You have to keep in mind that you'll never be able to see them as clearly as you do in these pictures. The stone is a lot smaller. It'll have great scintilation and fire with the arrows. Have you seen these stones in person?
Posted: 5/9/2008 2:43:26 PM

P: 5/9/2008 2:55:25 PM
Maisie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,766 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 12/30/2006	You won't see the arrows all the time. They are never as pronounced as you see them on the close up photos. I do like it when I can see them though.... I love my diamond!
Posted: 5/9/2008 2:55:25 PM

P: 5/9/2008 3:16:39 PM
lisamarie Cut Rock Total Posts: 199 Last Post: 10/18/2009 Member Since: 2/22/2008	My diamond looks exactly like the second photo of the lighter arrows: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4329 In person, it's not that easy to spot the arrows. You have to be looking at the diamond perfectly straight. If you're just a smidge off, you lose it. Here are my photos of the diamond so you can see what I'm talking about. I have a weird, not quite straight shot of the arrows here: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=84845
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:16:39 PM

P: 5/9/2008 3:25:23 PM
DiamondGirly Rough Rock Total Posts: 56 Last Post: 7/17/2008 Member Since: 5/2/2008	Date: 5/9/2008 3:16:39 PM Author: lisamarie My diamond looks exactly like the second photo of the lighter arrows: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4329 In person, it's not that easy to spot the arrows. You have to be looking at the diamond perfectly straight. If you're just a smidge off, you lose it. Here are my photos of the diamond so you can see what I'm talking about. I have a weird, not quite straight shot of the arrows here: http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=84845 I saw a thread with your diamond in it the other day and I really liked the look of it. In fact, it's the reason I created the topic. Thanks for the reply!
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:25:23 PM

P: 5/9/2008 6:36:24 PM
Lynn B Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,142 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 5/9/2004	Ditto the above, be sure you see a true H&A stone IN PERSON before you decide you don't like it. What you see here in PS'ville, with the 40x mag, static photos is really not representative of real life. Trust me on this! For me? Mmmmmmmmmmmm, I love the arrows. Catching a glimpse of them with the light and color playing off of them... oh, swoon! It's like my happy little secret! And THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it!
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:36:24 PM

P: 5/9/2008 6:39:22 PM
butterfly 17 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,162 Last Post: 11/10/2009 Member Since: 8/18/2005	I love the arrows, but I think I like the thinner arrows, not the thicker ones. I love the symmetry. IRL you really won't see them all the time, but I do love knowing that I have them and I love angling my diamond a certain way to find them. "Buy what you like to please yourself, not to impress anyone else." "Maybe I am just dense, or maybe it just doesn't matter." -MKM
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:39:22 PM

P: 5/9/2008 7:10:05 PM
diamondrnglover Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,196 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 12/12/2006	You know this is interesting, I have been thinking the same thing, I am not sure I like them, BUT, I have never seen them in person, I think I would need to actually look at a diamond with them before I would make a decision....
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:10:05 PM

P: 5/9/2008 7:24:45 PM
MoonWater Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,158 Last Post: 2/27/2009 Member Since: 7/1/2007	Strangely I can see my arrows rather clearly even though my stone is only a .90. I enjoy looking at them. It's actually a bit of a distraction when I should be focusing on other things. I just think it's cool. But everyone else thinks I'm crazy when I start talking about arrows in the diamond (they never heard of H&A stones). sigh oh well. ............... "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:24:45 PM

P: 5/9/2008 7:54:07 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	When they are too big or too bold I think they give the diamond a dark look. I can't stand 8* for that very reason but love my wifey2b's gog h&a. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:54:07 PM

P: 5/9/2008 8:16:27 PM
Sharon101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 919 Last Post: 8/24/2009 Member Since: 9/5/2007	I love this topic and can relate to every viewpoint. I do think its cool from a technical viewpoint and I love the science behind it. Maybe it looks cooler in the smaller sizes, but the very big h&a somehow are a distraction for me. I love more of a surprise sparkly random looking diamond with no pattern, I do like the crushed ice look, and even a lively pin point sparkle diamond. So maybe some people are just less into order and more into chaos!!!!! By all means I prefer the lighter h&a. And finally, Im fickle, so it wouldnt surprise me if one day I just fall in love and have to have one!!!!
Posted: 5/9/2008 8:16:27 PM

P: 5/9/2008 9:34:55 PM
the rube Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,934 Last Post: 10/15/2009 Member Since: 10/22/2007	I actually don't really like the arrows, either, which is one of the reasons I don't prefer RBs. I definitely can appreciate their perfect optical symmetry and the artistry behind cutting such superideal diamonds, but they're not really my cup of tea. Something about the arrows (and the numerous tiny facets that don't let you "see into" the diamond) seems somewhat too perfect, too contrived, for my easygoing, artsy, organic sort of personality. In other words, I sort of agree. However, Maisie is right when she says you won't always see them. ........................ You say you want diamonds in a ring of gold...but all I want is you...
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:34:55 PM

P: 5/9/2008 9:39:03 PM
purrfectpear Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,696 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 3/31/2008	I wouldn't kick one to the curb, but I wouldn't pay extra for them either. If they are dark, they just read "busy" to my eyes. I have a non-branded RB that shows arrows at the right angle. My preference is for OMC, Emerald, Cushion, or Pear cuts BTW I saw a photo on eBay the other day with arrows *photoshopped (badly)* onto the pic of the stone "Style is knowing who you are, what you want to say and not giving a damn." -Gore Vidal
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:39:03 PM

P: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM
surfgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,438 Last Post: 5/19/2009 Member Since: 4/5/2007	I dont care for arrows at all. I suppose that's why I have an antique cut, I get the round without the spikey arrows, which suits my eye. It's all subjective really.
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM

P: 5/9/2008 9:55:08 PM
decodelighted Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,625 Last Post: 11/16/2009 Member Since: 7/27/2005	Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM Author: surfgirl I dont care for arrows at all. I suppose that's why I have an antique cut. It's all subjective really. I generally prefer antique rounds too. Don't think I've seen a true H&A in person though. But I've never really been drawn to the headlight kind of brilliant rounds period ... wellllllll ... I mean in e-ring sizes. I'd love studs or a DBY type necklace ... and I certainly like the teensy ones in pave ... so ...
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:55:08 PM

P: 5/9/2008 10:10:03 PM
dreamer_dachsie Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,533 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 12/16/2007	In person you cannot see arrows... the dark black you see in pictures is something to do with the way a camera catches light compared to how the eye catches it. In person, you see silver/rainbow colored lines occassionally but they look really really cool. All you see face up on an ideal RB is sparkle (though mine is not a "true" H & A, it still has arrows in pictures and in the idealscope). * Dreamer *
Posted: 5/9/2008 10:10:03 PM

P: 5/10/2008 12:20:10 AM
risingsun Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,413 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 12/19/2006	The more precisely the diamond is cut, the more likely you will see the h&a effect. The stone may not be marketed as such, but it is an artifact of a well-cut, modern RB. I love the look and have an ACA. For folks that don't, step away from ideal cut diamonds or those very faint, silvery arrows may quietly pierce your heart ~Marian ______________________________________ "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that bling..."
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:20:10 AM

P: 5/10/2008 6:50:44 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 5/10/2008 12:20:10 AM Author: risingsun The more precisely the diamond is cut, the more likely you will see the h&a effect. The stone may not be marketed as such, but it is an artifact of a well-cut, modern RB. I love the look and have an ACA. For folks that don't, step away from ideal cut diamonds or those very faint, silvery arrows may quietly pierce your heart ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:50:44 AM

P: 5/10/2008 7:43:21 AM
Skippy123 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 19,822 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2006	Date: 5/10/2008 6:50:44 AM Author: Ellen Date: 5/10/2008 12:20:10 AM Author: risingsun The more precisely the diamond is cut, the more likely you will see the h&amp;a effect. The stone may not be marketed as such, but it is an artifact of a well-cut, modern RB. I love the look and have an ACA. For folks that don't, step away from ideal cut diamonds or those very faint, silvery arrows may quietly pierce your heart those make my heart sing, look at Ellen's avatar, we can see those silvery arrows. Close your eyes out there. hehe Skippy "The only things that stand between a person and what they want in life are the will to try it, and the faith to believe it's possible" Rich Devos
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:43:21 AM

P: 5/10/2008 7:54:06 AM
arjunajane Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,764 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 1/18/2008	I have absolutely fallen for H&A diamonds and from what I've seen in some of the amazing photos here, you can't beat it when the sun lights up the silvers, pinks, blues and everything else in the arrows. My PoH is 0.7 so the pattern isn't as distinct, but its there and i love it. I can't wait to get my larger RB so I can enjoy them all the time. The only downside is now I am not so fond of traditionally faceted RB's, which are the stones in my ering. Don't get me wrong, I still adore my ering and always will but I much prefer the bold fire that comes from a true H&A. I agree with the others, in the photography you see on websites such as GOG, the black arrows are due to head or camera obstruction and the diamond will not ever look like that IRL. It'll just sparkle baby!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "And let today embrace the past with remembrance and the future with longing." Kahlil Gibran
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:54:06 AM

P: 5/10/2008 8:04:03 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	One of the best places to see my arrows is out on my breezeway. I have tried several times to get a shot of what I see, the silvery aspect, but the camera just can't capture it. This is the closest I've come, but they look white. They are at the 11 and 1 o'clock positions. Please excuse the very dirty rings. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:04:03 AM

P: 5/10/2008 8:39:41 AM
Skippy123 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 19,822 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 11/24/2006	Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM Author: surfgirl I dont care for arrows at all. I suppose that's why I have an antique cut, I get the round without the spikey arrows, which suits my eye. It's all subjective really. What do you mean Spikey arrows??? Skippy "The only things that stand between a person and what they want in life are the will to try it, and the faith to believe it's possible" Rich Devos
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:39:41 AM

P: 5/10/2008 10:46:58 AM
Mrs Mitchell Ideal Rock Total Posts: 873 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/23/2006	I don't love them at all, and probably because of that, I see them clearly! I bought ACAs because I wasn't confident. For me, they were a 'safe' choice in that I knew they would be well cut. Now, I'd go for antique cuts or other shapes, I think. I also like a little more fire at the expense of other aspects of performance, but I only learned that through comparing stones irl. When I first looked at diamonds, I believed I would like the opposite. I'm fickle! I'm talking myself into an OMC here... Jen
Posted: 5/10/2008 10:46:58 AM

P: 5/10/2008 11:12:41 AM
lisa1.01fvs1 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,101 Last Post: 9/4/2009 Member Since: 1/17/2008	Initially, the more I read here on PS I was obsessed w/ H&A. I keeped looking at mine and what do you know? It has H&A all on its own. Now, I'm not so sure I like that obvious pattern - kinda distracting and prefer the generalized sparkles/fire/silver glass appearance all around. Sometimes I see them sometimes I don't so I'm on the fence.
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:12:41 AM

P: 5/10/2008 12:21:52 PM
ericad Ideal Rock Total Posts: 785 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 7/29/2007	Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM Author: surfgirl I dont care for arrows at all. I suppose that's why I have an antique cut, I get the round without the spikey arrows, which suits my eye. It's all subjective really. +1. H&A is not my cup of tea. Antique diamonds can give you all of the same sparkle and fire (if not more) without the arrows. But it's a very different look from modern RB's, and not for everyone. Do you have the ability to see H&A stones somewhere in person? That's what I would do - look at H&A's, antiques, etc. in person and decide what facet pattern appeals to you more. A picture can't capture what the eye sees when a diamond is in motion, so IRL the arrows of an H&A (like the checkerboard of an OEC) may not be as prominent as it seems. Erica D. Jewels by Erica Grace
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:21:52 PM

P: 5/10/2008 12:59:17 PM
Tuckins1 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,388 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/13/2008	Diamondgirly, I know what you mean. I think the arrows are really neat looking, but personally I like the look of the thinner arrows better. I think when they are big they kind of make the diamond look chunky. However, I wdefinitely wouldn't say no if someone was offering me a stone with thick or thin ones!! "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!"
Posted: 5/10/2008 12:59:17 PM

P: 5/10/2008 2:14:10 PM
surfgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,438 Last Post: 5/19/2009 Member Since: 4/5/2007	Date: 5/10/2008 8:39:41 AM Author: Skippy123 Date: 5/9/2008 9:39:42 PM Author: surfgirl I dont care for arrows at all. I suppose that's why I have an antique cut, I get the round without the spikey arrows, which suits my eye. It's all subjective really. What do you mean Spikey arrows??? Skippy, to my eye, modern RBs look "spikey" - thinner spikey facets when looking into the stone. As opposed to antique cuts, which look "chunky" when you look at the faceting. That's how I describe the difference. For example, I actually perfer Ellen's above photo to her avatar because I dont see the arrows at all, I just see the faceting and it looks more random and chunky to my eye in that above photo..which I suppose is why I prefer antique cuts - I like the randomness of the facet patterning better. That's about as good as I can 'splain it...! Date: 5/10/2008 10:46:58 AM Author: Mrs Mitchell I'm talking myself into an OMC here... Jen What?!? You need "talking into"? I'll give you a good talking into Missy..Just.Do.It! You know you wont be sorry...
Posted: 5/10/2008 2:14:10 PM

P: 5/10/2008 2:54:33 PM
Mrs Mitchell Ideal Rock Total Posts: 873 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/23/2006	LOL! I would sooooo love to have one. Might need to save a little cash first!
Posted: 5/10/2008 2:54:33 PM

P: 5/10/2008 3:19:50 PM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	Cool thread and a fave subject of mine. Just some input regarding the video/photography... If you view the video DGirly is talking about (4th down on the video page) there is some general corellation between what I was able to capture and what you see in the photography. Shallower pavilion angles tend to make the arrows darker while pavilion angles at the 41.0 degree zone stand a greater chance of pulling light from around the observer rather than from the observer himself. You can see this reflected in some of the ASET imagery generated by the PGS results. In fact if you look at the ASET image generated on the link DGirly provided on the "lighter arrows" stone you'll see three pavilion mains in the ASET image there as red (even though they photographed blue). Both are honies though but demonstrate slight nuances we see among top grade diamonds. There are also slight differences in fire/sparkle patterns between the two types as well that you can see in the vid. One other factor that can determine how dark or light those facets will appear is the individual's focal length as they look into the face of the diamonds. People who have focal lenghts that are a very short distance to their eyes stand a much greater chance of seeing darkness and reflection of head/body obstruction while folks with longer focal lengths (mine is about a half to 3/4 an arms length distance) stand a greater chance of not seeing darkness. The focal length in the video is about the focal length of my own eyes and that of most general observers. Peace, Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 5/10/2008 3:19:50 PM

P: 5/10/2008 4:11:50 PM
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,218 Last Post: 11/21/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004	Date: 5/10/2008 3:19:50 PM Author: Rhino Cool thread and a fave subject of mine. Just some input regarding the video/photography... If you view the video DGirly is talking about (4th down on the video page) there is some general corellation between what I was able to capture and what you see in the photography. Shallower pavilion angles tend to make the arrows darker while pavilion angles at the 41.0 degree zone stand a greater chance of pulling light from around the observer rather than from the observer himself. You can see this reflected in some of the ASET imagery generated by the PGS results. In fact if you look at the ASET image generated on the link DGirly provided on the 'lighter arrows' stone you'll see three pavilion mains in the ASET image there as red (even though they photographed blue). Both are honies though but demonstrate slight nuances we see among top grade diamonds. There are also slight differences in fire/sparkle patterns between the two types as well that you can see in the vid. One other factor that can determine how dark or light those facets will appear is the individual's focal length as they look into the face of the diamonds. People who have focal lenghts that are a very short distance to their eyes stand a much greater chance of seeing darkness and reflection of head/body obstruction while folks with longer focal lengths (mine is about a half to 3/4 an arms length distance) stand a greater chance of not seeing darkness. The focal length in the video is about the focal length of my own eyes and that of most general observers. Peace, Jon i love your ideal cuts by Tolkowsky small tables, tall crowns,true H&A... it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone.
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:11:50 PM

P: 5/10/2008 4:23:51 PM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	DF!!!! Long time no see man! Great to see you around. Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:23:51 PM

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