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Considering an I1, Help!

P: 4/29/2008 8:54:35 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	Hello, My husband has said "yes" to an upgrade of my original engagagement ring. The only problem is I need to go through a "mall jeweler" so I can trade in my current ring for a credit. This past weekend I picked out a .81 carat princess cut I1 clarity, e color. I know the prices at the mall jewelers aren't that great. (That's a given) But my husband is not willing to buy a diamond from the internet. I like the diamond I picked out, however, when I examine it closely in bright light I can see several black inclusions. After reading these boards, I feel like I am making an "unwise choice" by selecting an I1. My husband says the certification is just a piece of paper, and if I'm happy with what the stone I see, that is what counts. I'm happy with my stone, I can't see the black inclusions from 12 inches away. But if I'm "eye to eye" with the stone I can, here and there. Does that mean the stone is eye-clean? Should I return it for a small stone in an SI1 or SI2? I'm on a budget, and really don't want to pay a lot more for a tinier stone. I'm trying to figure out if all those black inclusions are affecting my sparkle!! Thanks so much for your input!
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:54:35 PM

There are 47 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 4/29/2008 8:58:56 PM
Muss Cut Rock Total Posts: 110 Last Post: 6/11/2008 Member Since: 3/19/2008	It is only "unwise" if it bothers you. If you have an VS1 and you can see something and it bothers you than that is not a wise choice either. I have an I1 but the inclusion can only be seen from the side so I didn't care. "If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. It's the hard that makes it great" -muss-
Posted: 4/29/2008 8:58:56 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:00:53 PM
cinnamon013 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,681 Last Post: 9/9/2009 Member Since: 4/15/2007	I think even mall stores can bring you in a few stones to look at. Tell them you aren't happy with the inclusions you can see and ask them to suggest some more stones. FYI, I realize your husband is set on not accepting the cert as proof, but there is something to be said for good cut. If the stone is cut well, it will sparkle more, and look larger because the face up measurements will be larger. Also, I don't think that all I1's are bad, it really depends on the type of inclusions and the location of them in the stone. Bottom line, if you ugrade, you want it to be to something you are happy with. I'd circle back to the store and have them give you some more options.
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:00:53 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:09:58 PM
motownmama Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,577 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 1/9/2008	will the setting obscure the inclusions?
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:09:58 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:19:42 PM
*DeeJay** Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,491 Last Post: 9/23/2009 Member Since: 3/26/2006	Inclusions that you can see now turn into all you can see later. Make sure you truly are totally OK with the stone or you will end up regretting it...
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:19:42 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:19:43 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	The black inclusions I see when I'm nose to nose with my stone are throughout the stone. (Even in the center.) It looks likeit has been peppered. I am surprised the stone looks so good from a distance (ie sparkly) with the inclusions there. Maybe I'm not good at judging stones.
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:19:43 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:24:04 PM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	Date: 4/29/2008 9:19:42 PM Author: DeeJay Inclusions that you can* see now turn into all you can see later. Make sure you truly are totally OK with the stone or you will end up regretting it... Agreed. And as for sparkle, it isn't the inclusions that will hinder sparkle, but the CUT. Unfortunately unless it is GIA or AGS certified it is likely to have a poor cut, making it much less sparkly than it could be. Have you SEEN an ideal cut stone? Go to Jareds or Kays and ask to see the Peerless or Leo diamonds. THEY are well cut (albeit waaaay overpriced) stones. Those stones are the same things that can be had from a good dealer for much less. So compare the new stone you want to one of THOSE stones and see if it still is appealing.
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:24:04 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:35:25 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	When you say inclusions you see now will be all you see later, what do you mean? If I go with the jewelry store's premium cut, I will end up in an SI1 for the same money. But down in karat size from .81 to .50. hmmm I am also so embarrased about going back and "facing the jeweler." It's like I can't make up my mind. But those jewelry store lights hide so much. I really want to like my ring. My husband says I'm never satisfied!!
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:35:25 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:49:08 PM
Muss Cut Rock Total Posts: 110 Last Post: 6/11/2008 Member Since: 3/19/2008	Don't ever be embarrased to get what you want. When you are paying money you have every right to be TOTALLY satisfied! "If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. It's the hard that makes it great" -muss-
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:49:08 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:50:10 PM
whatmeworry Ideal Rock Total Posts: 867 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 5/24/2006	Are you just looking at it in the jewelry store lighting? Try examining it under different lighting like soft fluorescent lighting (office lighting).
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:50:10 PM

P: 4/29/2008 9:55:51 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 4/29/2008 9:35:25 PM Author: Ava15 When you say inclusions you see now will be all you see later, what do you mean? If I go with the jewelry store's premium cut, I will end up in an SI1 for the same money. But down in karat size from .81 to .50. hmmm I am also so embarrased about going back and 'facing the jeweler.' It's like I can't make up my mind. But those jewelry store lights hide so much. I really want to like my ring. My husband says I'm never satisfied!! Yes they do, and that is one of the very reasons they have them. Do not be affraid to say, once my stone got in normal lighting, I can see just how included it is, and I'm very unhappy. They should want to make you happy. Also, if they have, or can bring in AGS0 Princess stones, they will be a bit safer as far as performance, and maybe try SI1 and SI2's for clarity. And Dee meant, after a period of time, ALL you will ever see are those inclusions when you look at your stone, because they will most likely become more and more bothersome. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 4/29/2008 9:55:51 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:05:58 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,920 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	Kind of like it they bother you now, they will always bother you. So have them bring in other stones, as was suggested by Ellen. No way would I t buy a peppered I1 stone. Also once they do bring in stones for you, have the manager accompany you outside so you can see it in natural light. If they won't allow you to do that, then go to the nearest window outside of the store. I hope they can bring in some AGS 0 stones for you. Skip IGI, please!! ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:05:58 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:08:14 PM
heraanderson Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,139 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 7/13/2007	You have some wiggle room with an e color. Why not get an eye clean SI2 and drop down to even H or I in the color? You'll always be staring at the inclusions and you're the one who has to wear it.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:08:14 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:08:20 PM
Gypsy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,306 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 8/9/2005	Mind clean is just as important, if not more important than eyeclean. I agree with DeeJay, if it's not right, it's not right. It's not a matter of the certificate, its a matter of those little black spots looming large in your mind.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:08:20 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:21:21 PM
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006	You know what I'd recommend? Just keep your original stone and save to be able to order a well cut stone from one of the online vendors. You'll get a better stone at a better price, and then you can set your old stone in a pendant. It really is not cost effective to trade in a small stone for an I1 stone that is probably overpriced. ~~~ When in doubt...don't.~~~
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:21:21 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:25:29 PM
*DeeJay** Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,491 Last Post: 9/23/2009 Member Since: 3/26/2006	Date: 4/29/2008 10:21:21 PM Author: diamondseeker2006 You know what I'd recommend? Just keep your original stone and save to be able to order a well cut stone from one of the online vendors. You'll get a better stone at a better price, and then you can set your old stone in a pendant. It really is not cost effective to trade in a small stone for an I1 stone that is probably overpriced. Unfortunately the OP said her husband isn't willing to buy from the internet... But maybe with some education he might be? I mean, when he learns that you can get a better stone for less money with no risk (i.e., get a stone from a trusted vendor with a reasonable return policy) perhaps he'll open up to the idea. He certainly wouldn't be the first one who came here unwilling to buy on-line who ultimately did get the stone that way, it might just take a little patience and prodding.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:25:29 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:41:36 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	Well, I would like to order online. But my husband does not trust it. I think my only option is to go back to the store and ask to see some more options. I know I will be losing money essentially, but I am really excited about the upgrade. I just wish the jeweler would have let me know that the stone I liked was quite included. Makes me feel like he is bit of a snake.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:41:36 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:45:47 PM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	Date: 4/29/2008 10:41:36 PM Author: Ava15 Well, I would like to order online. But my husband does not trust it. I think my only option is to go back to the store and ask to see some more options. I know I will be losing money essentially, but I am really excited about the upgrade. I just wish the jeweler would have let me know that the stone I liked was quite included. Makes me feel like he is bit of a snake. Ava, two things for you. 1. Where are you? Many of our beloved PS vendors have storefronts you can visit in person if you are nearby, so that may be a way for you to get a great stone but for you to settle your husbands fears. 2. You don't have to order the stone "off the internet". You can CALL someone like Mark at ERD or Jon at GOG, and they will personally work with you on the purchase. That also might help your hubby become more comfortable with it. And if you think he is a snake, he proabably is. And please please at least go and check out some AGS and GIA graded this is very important!!! premium cut stones. There is an amazing difference in brilliance and sparkle from an ok cut stone to an ideal stone.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:45:47 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:46:05 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	Also, is an I1 stone always peppered? I know some folks on this board say some I1's are just fine.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:46:05 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:49:15 PM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	Date: 4/29/2008 10:46:05 PM Author: Ava15 Also, is an I1 stone always peppered? I know some folks on this board say some I1's are just fine. VERY RARELY is an I1 not peppered and is somewhat eyeclean. And these stones are hand selected by PS vendors, not likely to be something you will see at most B&M stores.
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:49:15 PM

P: 4/29/2008 10:52:31 PM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	How much is the stone you are looking at? Because here is a BEAUTIFUL, ideal cut, princess stone, AGS certified (the best!), I SI2, and appears to be eyeclean for $1200. Just an example of what you can get for your $ online. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3421/ Here is a similar .82 princess, G SI2, ideal cut for only about $2500. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3955/ How much does the B&M want to charge for the non-certified "I1" (which really could be more like an I2 or I3 because it isn't certed reliably) with probably a poor cut?
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:52:31 PM

P: 4/29/2008 11:01:37 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	The cost was $2600, plus we got $1500 for our trade in. We ended up spending about $1200. (That includes a white gold solitaire setting.) The I1 diamond is certified by GSI. But it did not come with a full report showing the inclusions. Just a color and clarity rating along with the dimensions. I don't even know what they have done with my old ring!!
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:01:37 PM

P: 4/29/2008 11:05:24 PM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	Date: 4/29/2008 11:01:37 PM Author: Ava15 The cost was $2600, plus we got $1500 for our trade in. We ended up spending about $1200. (That includes a white gold solitaire setting.) The I1 diamond is certified by GSI. But it did not come with a full report showing the inclusions. Just a color and clarity rating along with the dimensions. I don't even know what they have done with my old ring!! Honestly, that is really really expensive for what you are getting... Spending $1200 WITHOUT TRADING your old ring would get you that gorgeous ideal cut, AGS certified stone from Good Old Gold if we can convince your hubby to check it out. He can talk to Jon on the phone, and if you are near Long Island you could go to their store in person...
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:05:24 PM

P: 4/29/2008 11:07:47 PM
Ava15 Rough Rock Total Posts: 87 Last Post: 8/24/2008 Member Since: 4/29/2008	Well, we're in Portland Oregon so visiting the storefront is out of the question!
Posted: 4/29/2008 11:07:47 PM

P: 4/30/2008 12:07:04 AM
neatfreak Ideal Rock Total Posts: 13,479 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 2/17/2007	Date: 4/29/2008 11:07:47 PM Author: Ava15 Well, we're in Portland Oregon so visiting the storefront is out of the question! Hmm that is too bad. Is there any way you can show your DH the prices of what you can get online with pictures and a real person to talk to? Even most men realize that they are getting shafted locally if you can get them to look online.
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:07:04 AM

P: 4/30/2008 12:11:09 AM
marcyc Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,831 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 2/27/2007	I would ask the store to bring in a few other stones for you to look at. If it is bothering now, it probably always will bother you. Good luck Sparkle On My Friends!
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:11:09 AM

P: 4/30/2008 12:14:14 AM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,920 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	I wish your husband would have a look at PS vendors. No risk, there is a return period, and some have upgrade policies. Have him look at www.whiteflash.com and www.goodoldgold.com I have bought from both, and have never been to either. The info they give on their stones is way more than the mall store. I am putting this as simply as possible not to overwhelm you with info. Plus they sell stones that come with AGS, GIA certs etc... Much more credible labs than the mall. It's a win win situation. But stick here a while and you'll see what I am talking about. I hate to see someone settle for less, and get a stone they won't love long term. ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:14:14 AM

P: 4/30/2008 12:47:42 AM
kathleenmv Cut Rock Total Posts: 396 Last Post: 11/19/2009 Member Since: 8/24/2005	Hi Ava! I'm in Bend. Would using a vendor in an adjacent state be at all comforting to your hubby? I bought my gorgeous upgrade e-ring diamond from Wink Jones (www.winkjones.com) in Boise. He has incredible Infinity princess cuts and is a wonderful, trustworthy, incredible person to work with. I highly recommend him. My husband was initially reluctant to buy online, too, and now is sold on it. Good luck and let us know what you decide. Kathy
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:47:42 AM

P: 4/30/2008 12:49:14 AM
swingirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,294 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/6/2006	Judith Arnell Jewelers is a high end jeweler in Portland. She carries Daniel K jewelry, estate pieces and specializes in asschers. But she also will be able to show you some well cut rounds and will have a much better selection on hand than a mall store. So that might be a good place to look and educate your eyes. http://www.juditharnell.com/about/about.html Some others that were from an old PS post. ABC Jewelers 534 SW Third, Suite 596, Portland 97204 (on 5th floor of Willamette Building) H&B Jewelry and Loan (killer pawn shop, in same building as ABC) 526 SW 3rd Carl Greve 731 SW Morrison, Downtown Portland, 97205 Zell Brothers 800 SW Morrison , Portland, 97205(across the street from Carl Greve) Maloy's Jewelry Workshop 717 SW 10th Gary Swank 840 SW Broadway. Portland OR Jones and Jones, 609 SW Alder Street
Posted: 4/30/2008 12:49:14 AM

P: 4/30/2008 5:51:03 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,291 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 4/29/2008 10:46:05 PM Author: Ava15 Also, is an I1 stone always peppered? I know some folks on this board say some I1's are just fine. I have 2 clean I1's, but it is important to remember I1 clarities are not created equal. Here is a guide to the industry definition of eyeclean. "No inclusions visible at arms length, with normal vision in normal light." This doesn't necessarily mean a diamond will be eyeclean at very close scrutiny. But the bottom line is, you don't seem to be happy with the diamond? If so, then I would see about returning it if you can. Here is a thread which may be useful too. http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=30483 Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 4/30/2008 5:51:03 AM

P: 4/30/2008 7:15:36 AM
Chrono Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,342 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/22/2004	Date: 4/29/2008 11:07:47 PM Author: Ava15 Well, we're in Portland Oregon so visiting the storefront is out of the question! Might I suggest Wink of www.winkjones.com in Boise, Idaho if you aren't adverse to driving a little? He carries gorgeous Infinity princess cut stones and knows how to pick the cleanest I1 stones.
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:15:36 AM

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