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 » RockyTalky
»  » Does (diamond) size matter?
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| Pages: 1 of 2: [1] 2 > |
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Does (diamond) size matter? |
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| P: 7/30/2003 8:51:57 PM | |
DoctorZ Rough Rock Total Posts: 63 Last Post: 7/25/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2003 |
What is the appropriate size/value of diamond to give for engagement? Those De Beers ads would have us believe '2 months salary' or more. By that formula, I should be buying a $30000 ring. Am I being a cheapskate if I buy a $15000 ring? Do you think it's wrong for a woman to expect more than this? I don't have any personal friends who have spent more than this, yet somehow, I feel like I am being cheap if I don't spend more. I'd rather spend the extra $15000 on vacations, save for a bigger house, etc.
the n o v i c e |
| Posted: 7/30/2003 8:51:57 PM | |
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There are 50 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page. |
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| P: 7/30/2003 9:21:22 PM | |
kiwifuz Rough Rock Total Posts: 74 Last Post: 4/5/2005 Member Since: 3/12/2003 |
It depends upon her and what she'd be comfortable wearing. I'd say also your ages and where you live. Personally there's no way I could wear something that costs $30,000 without fearing that I'd do something to screw it up. I'd say go for the best quality wise that you can get within a size she'd be comfortable wearing. On pricescope I was seeing that $30 grand will buy you a 4 ct diamond, but there were no H&A that came up... I don't about her, but me personally that would be a definite no! Jen |
| Posted: 7/30/2003 9:21:22 PM | |
| P: 7/30/2003 9:35:38 PM | |
niceice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,792 Last Post: 7/22/2008 Member Since: 1/29/2003 |
The answer to this really depends on the woman... Some women "need" a price tag and others see the ring as a symbol of your committment... And then there is the fact that most of the diamond prices you'll find on the internet are considerably lower than what you would find a comparable item selling for through a traditional brick and mortar retail establishment... So the question becomes "two months salary in a jewelry store or on the internet?"  But really... Who is DeBeers to tell you how much to spend anyway? Well, actually, it's not DeBeers, it's the Diamond Promotion Service which is the advertising agency contracted by DeBeers to promote diamond sales... The concept of two months salary was (supposedly) intended to provide people with a basis for determining how much they should spend on an engagment ring... The idea being that if you hang out with all of your buddies from work on the weekends and you all spend about two months salary on your engagement rings that everybody will have about the same ring in the spirit of keeping up with the Jones's and all that... Unplug from the advertising department DoctorZ and buy your fiance a ring that makes "sense" to your sensibilities... Look for something that offers a balance of size and quality which your fiance is going to enjoy wearing and not feel self concious about... We have a few clients running around with five and six carat $100K rings and others who couldn't imagine wearing something like that... The cost of the ring should never be the issue, the meaning behind the ring and your fiance's ability to wear the ring comfortably in public and thus enjoy the ring should be the focal point of your quest. Todd L. Gray, President |
| Posted: 7/30/2003 9:35:38 PM | |
| P: 7/30/2003 9:42:35 PM | |
Richard Sherwood Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,879 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 9/25/2002 |
The "two months" salary is just intended as a helpful guide. It's not written in concrete. I would judge the size and quality of the stone by the woman you're buying it for. What's the size of her fingers? How do she dress? What kind of professional capacity does she work in, and what type of social functions does she attend or arrange? Is she a purist, a connoiseur, or a practical, down to earth woman who wouldn't want you to spend the money that a D flawless would cost? What kind of car does she drive, what kind of watch does she wear? The best? A Porsche versus a Chevrolet? A Cartier versus a Timex? How much do you want to impress her? What would it take to do the job? How important is it to you that she absolutely see no body color or flaws to the naked eye? What kind of people does she associate with? Look up to? What do they wear? If she is a professional woman, what do the women whose positions she aspires to wear? Dressing to the level of the position you desire is one of the fastest ways to attain that position. Not to muddy the water, but in my own personal experience from when I was selling diamonds, many people ended up spending twice what they initially expected to spend. Don't ask me why, that's just what it often took to satisfy their desire. In your case though, that might not be necessary. You've got a nice budget to work with. Good luck, and above all, have fun. Rich, Independent GG Appraiser |
| Posted: 7/30/2003 9:42:35 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 7:00:40 AM | |
baloo Rough Rock Total Posts: 39 Last Post: 5/12/2004 Member Since: 6/3/2003 |
I had the same dilema. Two months salary landed in the 30k zone. There was no way I could justify that. I ended up paying about $11k all told. Let me tell you it's an amazing ring and my fiance (man it's hard to say that) hasn't taken her eyes off it. She just loves it and she has everyone stopping her to tell her what an amazing ring it is. But the trick is be buy smart. Had I gone to Tiffany for a comparable ring, I might have hit that 2 month mark. Using this forum and researching a fair bit, I ended up with something more spectacular for a fraction of the price.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 7:00:40 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 9:53:26 AM | |
trichrome Cut Rock Total Posts: 397 Last Post: 3/22/2004 Member Since: 12/9/2002 |
In Africa I think men can't spend 1% of their salary on diamonds.. It's only in the US, that people know this rule... In Europe, over 1ct are rare, rare, rare... I dont know in Australia..maybe Cut Nut could comment.. here in Canada, over 1ct is rare. Trichrome. BTW : I would never marry a woman who would need a "price tag". An e-ring is a gift that's it. When I receive a gift, it would be not polite from myself to ask for what was the price of it.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 9:53:26 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 9:59:13 AM | |
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hoorray Cut Rock Total Posts: 138 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 5/16/2003 |
My 2 cents on the 2x salary myth..... 1. It was created by marketing people trying to get you to increase the $$ you plan to spend on an e-ring. (subtle pressure to make you feel that you aren't doing the right thing unless you spend this much.....) But it makes no sense for anyone.... 2. Those with lower salaries don't have enough discretionary income to spend 17% of their after tax annual earnings on a single "luxury" item. It would be irresponsible. 3. Those with higher salaries can afford it since they have more discretionary income, but the $$ amount becomes ridiculous. Thus, figure out what style and size of rings feels right for you and your bride to be. (Rich had some good advice on how to look at that.) Feel lucky that you can afford it, and use the rest of the $$ in whatever fashion makes sense to the 2 of you! 
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 9:59:13 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 10:07:33 AM | |
elgar Rough Rock Total Posts: 28 Last Post: 2/24/2004 Member Since: 6/27/2003 |
$30,000!!!! Stop bragging!
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 10:07:33 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 10:44:14 AM | |
Boulder Cut Rock Total Posts: 173 Last Post: 9/17/2003 Member Since: 5/5/2003 |
 That's very interesting! The amount that I had planned on spending has actually dropped a bit since I first started looking. I spoke with a friend, who in retrospect said that he and his now-wife wished that he'd spent a little less so they'd have more money to buy a house. It's certainly tough to come up with the right balance of priorities...
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 10:44:14 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 10:54:41 AM | |
Smooth Rough Rock Total Posts: 77 Last Post: 11/13/2003 Member Since: 7/2/2003 |
It's all relative, and only you know your wife-to-be the best. I am sure she is aware of your financial status so if you buy her a 1ct ring, she might be disappointed. Yet if I bought my girlfriend a 1ct ring I am sure she would berate me for spending too much money considering we are trying to save up to buy a house in the near future. All I can say is there should be no way spending 15,000 dollars on a ring could be considered "cheap". Hopefully, your S.O. shares your priorities and she would rather use that extra $15K to go on vacations etc. rather than have a gigantic ring (instead of just a huge one). Of course, my priorities may be a little different considering my car isn't even worth $15K.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 10:54:41 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 11:02:13 AM | |
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Smooth Rough Rock Total Posts: 77 Last Post: 11/13/2003 Member Since: 7/2/2003 |
Boulder, you're not the only one who is spending less than they initially thought they would...  I had been looking for a little while, really worried I would go over budget... and then I realized I did not need to get a "designer" setting, there are great alternatives out there. Then a vendor found me a stone that was a color grade lower than I originally thought I wanted, and a little bit smaller too (but the cut was outstanding, which more than made up for it in my mind). Now I think I'll end up spending 20-25% less than I thought I might have to spend, and still get a beautiful ring. I'm happy (and she will be as well) because we could really use the money for other things. 
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 11:02:13 AM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 1:11:49 PM | |
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002 |
I, too, spent less money than budget - much less! Hubby was pleased with my massaging of parameters to get a pleasing diamond that I am not afraid to wear. The four "C's" are personal preference. Self discovery is a must to begin a diamond search. Also, keep in mind that many jeweler's will not have the finest cut stones. A stone with a very good make will hide many flaws.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 1:11:49 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 1:51:12 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,912 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
2 months salary is ridiculous...I always wondered how you justify that. *Though* I would definitely NOT turn it down if someone threw it at me for a stone! Ha Ha. There are not many people I know who can just say...yes 2 mo salary sounds great, even in a high-tech/high-paid area like here in the Silicon Valley. I think too many people get hung up on what they are SUPPOSED to pay as opposed to what catches their eye and what seems reasonable for yourself, your financial situation, and your future goals. If you are saving for a house and thats your top priority, then a luxury item like a diamond doesn't need to break your bank. But if you have no debt, have alot of savings, and WANT to make that purchase, go for it. It really is all about you and what your fiance will be happy with together. I don't think the purchase is JUST about her, its more about you two and what you will both love to look at...you get to see the ring too! Someone posted recently that the average stone in the US purchased for an e-ring was something like .75c. I thought I had read recently that more 1c stones were sold in jewelry stores than any other size, but I don't recall where I saw that. Also someone else once posted that .40c was the average size. So who really knows what the real AVERAGE is..and even so..an average of all the towns and cities in the US do not equal out to what you should spend on your stone. If you live in a more metropolitan area, large stones may be the thing. Or in a more rural area, maybe a smaller stone is what everyone has. Who really knows....but you. Or maybe that doesn't factor in at all, and you just want to buy what captures your eye and looks really great to you--regardless of size. It's all very objective! I would start visiting a few stores, and get an idea for what you like...what size, shape, color, clarity etc. If you know your GF's general hand structure, search out a woman in the jewelry store (employee) with a similar hand shape or size and have her model a few things. As you start to actually do some 'hands on' research, things will start to gel with you. You'll start to get an idea of what you like to see...what looks good on a hand, what prices are for different colors/clarities etc. Oh and BTW...$15k is NOT anywhere near a cheapskate ring, online if you were smart and did your research, you'd end up with something like a 1.75c-2c G/H color, VS/SI clarity stone with an excellent cut!! Now you've got size and excellent color there...plus the cut makes ALL the difference. That's definitely a stone to be proud of. Better than going to the local Tiffany and plunking down the 2 months $30k to get almost the same stone but probably without Hearts and Arrows under the microscope! Best of luck!
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 1:51:12 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 1:54:44 PM | |
canadiangrrl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 787 Last Post: 3/19/2008 Member Since: 6/10/2003 |
Size is such a personal thing. I have smallish fingers, and a 1 carat diamond looks rather large on my hand. I didn't say it looks bad, just large. But I know that there are many who feel that 1 carat is just the "starting point." As for budget - don't break the bank is my advice. Don't even dent it too badly, if you can get away with it.
Sursum Corda! |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 1:54:44 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 2:58:38 PM | |
rbjd Cut Rock Total Posts: 154 Last Post: 7/26/2008 Member Since: 2/4/2003 |
Hey Doc, You're not worth your salary if you can't figure out how to not get reeled in by a marketing ploy.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 2:58:38 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 3:35:06 PM | |
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trichrome Cut Rock Total Posts: 397 Last Post: 3/22/2004 Member Since: 12/9/2002 |
1ct a starting point........lol.... Mara : No 0.75cts is not the average size bought in the US...it's way lower than that if you consider ALL sources of diamond sales. Trichrome.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 3:35:06 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 3:39:34 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,912 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Tri--use your massive brain and oodles of intelligence (or just your Googling skills) to find me the authoritative final word on what the average size is in the US. I have seen too many variable articles posting their idea of what it is...who really knows?! Step up! Inquiring minds want to know!
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 3:39:34 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 3:46:23 PM | |
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trichrome Cut Rock Total Posts: 397 Last Post: 3/22/2004 Member Since: 12/9/2002 |
Let me see in the Rapaport newsletter... I think it's somewhere.. I'll be back to you later with the info. Trichrome..
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 3:46:23 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 4:07:13 PM | |
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lovediamonds Rough Rock Total Posts: 4 Last Post: 8/3/2003 Member Since: 7/27/2003 |
If I were you, I would let her pick out the ring she wants within a price range you both agree upon. Be honest with her about your feelings and then let her be honest with you about her feelings and reach some compromise. Good communication early on is the key to a happy marriage. When my husband and I got married, he could only afford to spend $1500 on an engagement ring. He did not want to go into debt to get it and have to make payments since we were just starting out. I agreed with him. Now deep down inside, I would love to have a huge, honking ring and if he could have afforded it, I would have gotten one, but he explained to me his financial situation, and I understood. I got the best quality ring for the price and I got to pick it out. Being able to pick it out was important to me, and just remember that even though you are buying it, she is the one that is going to have to wear it. It is HER ring. You might just tell her that truthfully you want to spend no more than $15,000 because you would rather that the both of you be able to take vacations, etc. Then let her pick out what she wants in that price range. I am not her, but that would make me very happy.
Ameila |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 4:07:13 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 4:19:36 PM | |
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Smooth Rough Rock Total Posts: 77 Last Post: 11/13/2003 Member Since: 7/2/2003 |
Mara, I've seen varying reports on that subject as well. The most common numbers I see mentioned are .50 and .75 carats as the average. However, according to a recent entry on this site, an average solitaire is .38 carat.  Maybe trichrome can clear this up.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 4:19:36 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 4:21:57 PM | |
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003 |
True dat.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 4:21:57 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 4:45:40 PM | |
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fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002 |
Somewhere in the annals of DT, someone posted a credible link saying that 1/3 of a carat was the average size "engagement ring". That said, I wonder if they factored in people w/ 0 carats on their hands. Perhaps Debeer's doesn't want *us* to know. Maybe they have articles that bump up top on google that says .75c. If you look around, that does not seem to be the case. Most are much smaller than that. Go to a cross section of general America. I would say one out of every 100 people are sporting a stone 3/4 of a carat or more.
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 4:45:40 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 7:13:02 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,912 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Hmm so you think they would balance out the Texans on the other end of the spectrum?! ________________________________ |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 7:13:02 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 7:46:01 PM | |
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DoctorZ Rough Rock Total Posts: 63 Last Post: 7/25/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2003 |
"You're not worth your salary if you can't figure out how to not get reeled in by a marketing ploy" First things first: You're right, I'm not worth my salary! But that's besides the point.... The 'two month rule' may have started as a marketing ploy, but it's become something that our society has unfortunately embraced. If the average income of a soon-to-be engaged man is $30000, then $5000 should be the average ring price. It seems like this is consistent with the 0.75 to 1.0 carat average. the |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 7:46:01 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 7:58:13 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,912 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
....Nevermind! I read the previous post wrong ________________________________ |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 7:58:13 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 8:05:14 PM | |
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hoorray Cut Rock Total Posts: 138 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 5/16/2003 |
continuing along that analytical approach, you are assuming a linear scale, which is exactly what the marketing people want you to do!  maybe it's about those in the $30k salary range working hard to get to a certain size point that they feel good about (whether it's .75 or.38, depending on your state, I guess  ). However, extending that logic to the higher salary ranges assumes it's about all about price, not ring/stone style or size, lifestyles etc...You can always upgrade for a significant occasion in the future if it makes sense for you guys at the time. That's part of the fun .
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| Posted: 7/31/2003 8:05:14 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 8:13:17 PM | |
AGBF Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,041 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 1/26/2003 |
Many years ago I gave a Christmas Eve party every year. I invited all my friends and family to it, which often put diverse types in the same room. My best friend's money-conscious older sister was wearing a dome ring from Tiffany's that was studded with diamonds. My former neighbor (she and her husband had lived above us in the condominium we owned when we were first married) was a secretary whose husband operated heavy equipment. My neighbor heard that the ring had cost $40,000. (Yes, she heard the price. The ring owners had money, not manners!) She nearly choked and said, "I'd rather have a house!" (And back then one *could* have a house for that!) I wonder if those dome rings are now $100,000....
A Girl's Best Friend |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 8:13:17 PM | |
| P: 7/31/2003 9:47:49 PM | |
dimonbob Ideal Rock Total Posts: 660 Last Post: 10/30/2009 Member Since: 12/13/2000 |
I guess it depends on how much you love your lady, how much money you are willing to part with for her ring, what she would be confortable with. I spent 4 months salary on my wifes ring and was happy to do it and she loves it. If I made $15K a month, Dr., I would buy her the highest quality and most beautiful diamond I could find with a carat size she would like. And I would not sweat how much it cost. Its not like you are going to be out of work any time soon like other working people. Just my opinion. dimonbob, GG |
| Posted: 7/31/2003 9:47:49 PM | |
| P: 8/1/2003 12:08:44 AM | |
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DoctorZ Rough Rock Total Posts: 63 Last Post: 7/25/2004 Member Since: 6/22/2003 |
"I guess it depends on how much you love your lady" Are you suggesting that if I spend $15k, then I love my lady less than if I spend $30k? the |
| Posted: 8/1/2003 12:08:44 AM | |
| P: 8/1/2003 5:10:14 AM | |
DiamondLil Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,405 Last Post: 6/1/2006 Member Since: 6/8/2003 |
Oh boy, here we go. I was wondering if a statement like that would come up. Why is it that people think the size/price tag of your diamond e-ring has anything to do with how much a guy LOVES his gal?
DiamondLil ________________ "Diamonds are nothing more than chunks of coal that stuck to their jobs." |
| Posted: 8/1/2003 5:10:14 AM | |
| P: 8/1/2003 7:43:47 AM | |
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fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002 |
No, No & NO! the notion is ridiculous. The only time I would see it apply is if *you* had the money; your to be desires a nice ring; & you consciously choose that *her* desire wasn't valid - and you buy some ring for 1k. That senario got to a bigger issue. Don't get hung up on the amount you *should* spend. Buy a nice ring that both of you would be happy with. Period.
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| Posted: 8/1/2003 7:43:47 AM | |
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8:44 AM DoctorZ wrote: 