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H&A vs Ideal?

P: 2/29/2008 10:11:04 AM
Aeromax Rough Rock Total Posts: 76 Last Post: 4/11/2008 Member Since: 2/13/2008	So now im a bit confused... I wanted to see what was in the "ideal" listing on jamesallen.com, since this entire time i've been searching for AGS0 and/or H&A listings only, basically only the premium selections. I found a diamond that was not listed as H&A, but still had ideal cut, and HCA'd very low, with excellent on everything. My question is, how does a diamond measure up exceptionally well, but not pass H&A muster?
Posted: 2/29/2008 10:11:04 AM

There are 8 replies to this message. There are 8 replies on this page.

P: 2/29/2008 12:25:39 PM
March-8-2008 Cut Rock Total Posts: 178 Last Post: 11/10/2009 Member Since: 11/27/2007	This is a good question; I would be interested to see input from other who are better experts on the topic! Anne
Posted: 2/29/2008 12:25:39 PM

P: 2/29/2008 1:11:00 PM
kcoursolle Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,344 Last Post: 10/14/2009 Member Since: 1/21/2006	I purchased a similar diamond from jamesallen and it performs like a hearts and arrows. There are many diamonds that aren't listed in their special hearts and arrows search that have beautiful H&A patterns.
Posted: 2/29/2008 1:11:00 PM

P: 2/29/2008 1:19:06 PM
elle_chris Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,968 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 2/19/2004	From what I've read on ths forum, I got the impression that hearts and arrows has to do with symmety and nothing to do with light return. So a non H&A stone can still be an AGS0 if everything's ideal. elle
Posted: 2/29/2008 1:19:06 PM

P: 2/29/2008 2:02:51 PM
Aeromax Rough Rock Total Posts: 76 Last Post: 4/11/2008 Member Since: 2/13/2008	So in terms of sparkliness and brilliance, being an say an AGS0 is more important than being rated H&A?
Posted: 2/29/2008 2:02:51 PM

P: 2/29/2008 2:35:10 PM
elle_chris Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,968 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 2/19/2004	Date: 2/29/2008 2:02:51 PM Author: Aeromax So in terms of sparkliness and brilliance, being an say an AGS0 is more important than being rated H&A? Yes. Also, the better the cut the more of a chance it has to exhibit the arrows. I'm pretty sure I read that here just can't remember who posted it. And as you can see, there are plenty of beauttiful stones here that are AGS0's and GIA Excellents that would not be considered true hearts and arrows but still exhibit the pattern. That doesn't make them any less brilliant as far as I know. And this is coming from someone that has purchased H&A's from GOG and Whiteflash along with regular AGS0's and GIA excellents. I can NOT see a difference visually. All the stones perfom beautifully. elle
Posted: 2/29/2008 2:35:10 PM

P: 2/29/2008 5:04:58 PM
lisa1.01fvs1 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,101 Last Post: 9/4/2009 Member Since: 1/17/2008	And as you can see, there are plenty of beauttiful stones here that are AGS0's and GIA Excellents that would not be considered true hearts and arrows but still exhibit the pattern. That doesn't make them any less brilliant as far as I know. And this is coming from someone that has purchased H&A's from GOG and Whiteflash along with regular AGS0's and GIA excellents. I can NOT see a difference visually. All the stones perfom beautifully. H&A is a brand name like Hearts of Fire & A Cut Above, etc. I can see great arrows on my stone, can't see the s because it's set and it wasn't graded by GIA, AGA, or AGS. It does rate AGS0 and AGA 1B and GIA ex/ex/ex however. So I would use different scales and definitely see the stone.
Posted: 2/29/2008 5:04:58 PM

P: 2/29/2008 6:42:39 PM
Cleo Ideal Rock Total Posts: 931 Last Post: 9/21/2008 Member Since: 1/26/2008	My diamond is AGS0 Ideal cut - but is not a H&A stone. You'll see from my avatar that it does display some arrows... but it's not a true, perfect H&A pattern. The H&A patterning is caused by super-ideal symmetry between the facets. Some people prefer the look of patterned stones - some people prefer the look of non-patterned: it's entirely personal preference. If you would like more information, take a look at this article which explains it well. x x x
Posted: 2/29/2008 6:42:39 PM

P: 2/29/2008 6:52:35 PM
Allison D. Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,726 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 2/1/2008	"Ideal" is a generic term meaning "well-cut". In its generic use, it means stone considered a top make. "AGS Ideal" is a narrower meaning. It means a stone that has earned AGS's top cut grade based on AGS's criteria, one of which is ideal symmetry. This symmetry judges meet-point symmetry, meaning facet junctions meet equally and the main facets are aligned (crown's relationship to pavilion). H&A refers to optical symmetry that produces an observable pattern when viewed through a Hearts and Arrows viewer (the crown view can be seen an Idealscope/ASET as well). The diamond can perform well without being H&A, some non-H&A stones perform better than some H&A stones. H&A isn't a standardized term, either, so labs don't grade it. Brian Gavin's standard for H&A is among the strictest, and you can find some information here in the Pricescope tutorial: http://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp Hope this helps. :-) Allison Dewey...."Alj" Consumer Relations, Whiteflash **the artist formerly known as aljdewey**
Posted: 2/29/2008 6:52:35 PM

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