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 prepping for my Asscher search...

P:  2/16/2008 6:19:40 PM  
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Hi all! I've been reading this forum off and on for the last several months and have read hundreds of posts about diamonds, Asschers in particular. I'm planning on proposing sometime in September so I do have some time, and right now I don't have the money needed to buy the ring I want...but I will shortly.

I've been taking notes as I've been researching and wanted to get some comments on my results. Basically, every person has similar but different parameters that they consider "ideal". I wrote down each of these parameters and merged them to make the most restrictive set...for example, if one person said they liked a depth of 60-68% and another said 63-70%, I ended up with 63-68%. I figured this way each person would agree that I'm getting a decent diamond.

Of course I understand that you can't buy a diamond without seeing it (especially Asschers), but these are the parameters I'm going by for right now. What do you think?

Carat: ~1.1+ (5.80x5.80mm or larger is my target size)
Cut: highest quality I can find
Color: D - H (as long as better color than sidestones)
Clarity: completely eye-clean SI1 or better
Fluorescence: none or faint in D - F, or slight to medium with F to I color
LxW ratio: 1.00 to 1.05 (square)
Depth: 65% to 68%
Table: 55% to 60%
Crown: 12% to 15%
Girdle: medium-thin, medium, medium-thick
Culet*: very small to medium
Polish: VG or Ex
Symmetry: VG or Ex

*Culet - I have read that since the culet is perpendicular to the table, a large culet will look like an inclusion. I've also read that it's preferable to have a culet that's not pointed since it reduces the chance that the diamond will chip. Is this true?

The most important feature to me in an Asscher is that strong "hall of mirrors" effect and, of course, that it catches the light and sparkles. Not as much as a RB of course, but you know what I mean.

I haven't decided on the exact setting yet, but I'm leaning towards a platinum setting with channel-set Asscher's. Also considering side traps or baguettes. Haven't found something that's exactly as I like so I'll probably go custom. I've got some CAD software that I'm playing around with...hope to have some good renderings in about a month or so. My total budget is $10,000 with the setting.

So does all this information look at least not too crazy? Thanks in advance for all your help!

If I'm too far off I'm just going to eat strmrdr's brain to gain knowledge.

Disclaimer: I've read through the FAQs and everything I know so far is from reading people's posts. Also, through clever mind games my soon-to-be fiancee thinks she's getting a ~4.4mm stone at most and there's no way she'll get a carat diamond. So whatever my decision is, she should be happy
Posted:  2/16/2008 6:19:40 PM

 There are 15 replies to this message.  There are 15 replies on this page.

P: 2/16/2008 6:45:07 PM
mrssalvo
mrssalvo

Ideal Rock
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Last Post: 11/20/2009
Member Since: 1/3/2005
 
I am not an asscher expert so you'll have to wait for storm or others to chime in. but, i just purchased a daniel K ring from pearlmans and daniel k cuts some AMAZING asschers. there is one in their closeout section that looks like it could meet your requirements for stone specs as well as setting and it's right at 10K, a STEAL for a daniel k ring. i bet they could get you the cert on the asscher too that would have all the cut info, the stone is a D-VS1 with ex/ex polish and symmetry...

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/209CO1/24/


 

 





-----------------------------
A deal is only a deal if you are getting exactly what you want.

Posted:  2/16/2008 6:45:07 PM
P: 2/16/2008 8:10:32 PM
strmrdr
strmrdr

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 23,296
Last Post: 10/9/2009
Member Since: 11/1/2003
 
Howdy,
Just posting too let you know I saw this.
Im in extreme pain tonight and will address this over the weekend sometime.
Its going too be a very long answer.
Didnt want you too feel I was ignoring you.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/16/2008 8:10:32 PM
P: 2/16/2008 9:34:27 PM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Date: 2/16/2008 8:10:32 PM
Author: strmrdr
Howdy,

Just posting too let you know I saw this.

Im in extreme pain tonight and will address this over the weekend sometime.

Its going too be a very long answer.

Didnt want you too feel I was ignoring you.



Uh oh...sounds like bad news. "Looks great!" isn't a very long answer

Hope you feel better strmrdr!

Posted:  2/16/2008 9:34:27 PM
P: 2/17/2008 12:47:31 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 23,296
Last Post: 10/9/2009
Member Since: 11/1/2003
 
Date: 2/16/2008 9:34:27 PM
Author: CaptainCarat


Uh oh...sounds like bad news. 'Looks great!' isn't a very long answer

Hope you feel better strmrdr!
lol just needs some minor tweaking here and there but no matter how you narrow down the numbers they are only less than 20% of the information you need.
Crown height, table size, l/w ratio being the important numbers.
The rest is pictures and expert opinion.


Thanks, I messed up my neck some how and have pains shooting up and down the sides of my neck in back.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/17/2008 12:47:31 AM
P: 2/17/2008 1:45:20 AM
gwendolyn
gwendolyn

Ideal Rock
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Last Post: 11/12/2009
Member Since: 8/4/2007
 
Date: 2/17/2008 12:47:31 AM
Author: strmrdr
Thanks, I messed up my neck some how and have pains shooting up and down the sides of my neck in back.

Dude, that sounds just awful. I hope you feel better soon!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UK Wedding: April ?th, 2010
US Reception: May 30th, 2010!

Out of Context Theatre presents...ladypirate: "Gwen, you would make a terrible medieval catholic priest!"

'One day you will do things for me that you hate. That is what it means to be family.'
-Jonathan Safran Foer, 'Everything Is Illuminated'

Posted:  2/17/2008 1:45:20 AM
P: 2/17/2008 7:27:23 AM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Date: 2/17/2008 12:47:31 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 2/16/2008 9:34:27 PM

Author: CaptainCarat



Uh oh...sounds like bad news. 'Looks great!' isn't a very long answer


Hope you feel better strmrdr!
lol just needs some minor tweaking here and there but no matter how you narrow down the numbers they are only less than 20% of the information you need.

Crown height, table size, l/w ratio being the important numbers.

The rest is pictures and expert opinion.



Thanks, I messed up my neck some how and have pains shooting up and down the sides of my neck in back.




Oh yeah, that's the worst. Makes it so you can't drive anywhere, either. Don't you love it when it happens on the weekend?

Yeah, I know the numbers are a small part of the big picture, but I figured if I used these specs I'd greatly increase my chance of seeing good stuff. Recently I've been paying careful attention to photo evaluations here on PS, read up a little on ASET (although I'm not sure how many companies have this equipment yet), Ideal-scope outputs (even though Asscher's are not well-suited for these I believe), etc.

When I started learning these important numbers, I started leaning towards BN...until I learned how much the visual aspect can vary even with very similar numbers. Now I'm leaning towards James Allen, WF, GOG, etc. where someone can send me photos and equipment reports and offer the expert opinion of someone who's seen thousands of diamonds and can tell me if I'm getting what I'm looking for.

Not to mention that everyone on this forum is a godsend to the oblivious consumer.

I'm making progress though...up until November I thought the way to buy a ring was to walk into Jared and pick one out! Didn't even know about certified diamonds. I think I'll take the price difference between the Jared not-so-hot diamonds and a beautiful online purchase and buy everyone here a drink when it's all done with!

Posted:  2/17/2008 7:27:23 AM
P: 2/17/2008 7:28:31 AM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Date: 2/16/2008 6:45:07 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I am not an asscher expert so you'll have to wait for storm or others to chime in. but, i just purchased a daniel K ring from pearlmans and daniel k cuts some AMAZING asschers. there is one in their closeout section that looks like it could meet your requirements for stone specs as well as setting and it's right at 10K, a STEAL for a daniel k ring. i bet they could get you the cert on the asscher too that would have all the cut info, the stone is a D-VS1 with ex/ex polish and symmetry...


http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/209CO1/24/




I'll definitely have to keep them in mind...too bad this one probably won't be there when I'm ready to purchase though! Thanks for the heads up, and at least I have another picture to consider :)

Posted:  2/17/2008 7:28:31 AM
P: 2/17/2008 7:55:34 AM
Ellen
Ellen

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 22,894
Last Post: 11/6/2009
Member Since: 1/13/2006
 
Date: 2/17/2008 7:27:23 AM
Author: CaptainCarat


Oh yeah, that's the worst. Makes it so you can't drive anywhere, either. Don't you love it when it happens on the weekend?

Yeah, I know the numbers are a small part of the big picture, but I figured if I used these specs I'd greatly increase my chance of seeing good stuff. Recently I've been paying careful attention to photo evaluations here on PS, read up a little on ASET (although I'm not sure how many companies have this equipment yet), Ideal-scope outputs (even though Asscher's are not well-suited for these I believe), etc.
That's a good thing to do. If you haven't already, try searching for "Asscher", "Asscher ring", "good Asscher", etc. on here. You should get a lot of threads, and many of those will be where people started looking for a stone, and what they ended up with. Most of those have pics too, and will help you get an eye for what a nice stone looks like, and what to look for in getting one.

Good luck!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds."

-Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State



John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880

"There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things....

The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

Posted:  2/17/2008 7:55:34 AM
P: 2/17/2008 8:44:07 AM
mrssalvo
mrssalvo

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 16,856
Last Post: 11/20/2009
Member Since: 1/3/2005
 
Date: 2/17/2008 7:28:31 AM
Author: CaptainCarat
Date: 2/16/2008 6:45:07 PM

Author: mrssalvo

I am not an asscher expert so you'll have to wait for storm or others to chime in. but, i just purchased a daniel K ring from pearlmans and daniel k cuts some AMAZING asschers. there is one in their closeout section that looks like it could meet your requirements for stone specs as well as setting and it's right at 10K, a STEAL for a daniel k ring. i bet they could get you the cert on the asscher too that would have all the cut info, the stone is a D-VS1 with ex/ex polish and symmetry...



http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/209CO1/24/






I'll definitely have to keep them in mind...too bad this one probably won't be there when I'm ready to purchase though! Thanks for the heads up, and at least I have another picture to consider :)



Well, you never know I will say if I were hunting for a loose asscher, I'd call up Jon at Goodoldgold, give him the specs and budget and let him do the work. he can even make video's comparing which is really cool. B/t him and the great advice you can get her, there is no doubt you will end up with a stunning asscher and ring.





-----------------------------
A deal is only a deal if you are getting exactly what you want.

Posted:  2/17/2008 8:44:07 AM
P: 2/17/2008 8:54:10 AM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Date: 2/17/2008 8:44:07 AM
Author: mrssalvo
Date: 2/17/2008 7:28:31 AM

Author: CaptainCarat

Date: 2/16/2008 6:45:07 PM


Author: mrssalvo


I am not an asscher expert so you'll have to wait for storm or others to chime in. but, i just purchased a daniel K ring from pearlmans and daniel k cuts some AMAZING asschers. there is one in their closeout section that looks like it could meet your requirements for stone specs as well as setting and it's right at 10K, a STEAL for a daniel k ring. i bet they could get you the cert on the asscher too that would have all the cut info, the stone is a D-VS1 with ex/ex polish and symmetry...




http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/209CO1/24/








I'll definitely have to keep them in mind...too bad this one probably won't be there when I'm ready to purchase though! Thanks for the heads up, and at least I have another picture to consider :)





Well, you never know I will say if I were hunting for a loose asscher, I'd call up Jon at Goodoldgold, give him the specs and budget and let him do the work. he can even make video's comparing which is really cool. B/t him and the great advice you can get her, there is no doubt you will end up with a stunning asscher and ring.


I might end up doing just that. Still gotta scrape together the cash, but the fact that they take the time to make video comparisons of their stones speaks highly of them and I've heard nothing but good things about them.

Posted:  2/17/2008 8:54:10 AM
P: 2/17/2008 12:01:49 PM
strmrdr
strmrdr

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 23,296
Last Post: 10/9/2009
Member Since: 11/1/2003
 
Changes in Green

Carat: ~1.1+ (5.80x5.80mm or larger is my target size) smart shopping MM rather than weight :}
Cut: highest quality I can find
Color: D - H (as long as better color than sidestones)
Clarity: stick too vs2 or better unless its an in stock stone that the vendor will guarantee is 100% eyeclean, calling in si asschers is a losing proposition
Fluorescence: Doesn't matter much, if it has some kewl if not kewl, I love v-strong as long as it isnt an over-blue.
LxW ratio: As square as possible, 1.04ish max,
Depth: 45%(haha) too 70%, discount over 70% unless its an old style asscher with a very high crown then it can carry a premium.
Table: 25% to 65%
Crown: 10%+
Girdle: medium, medium-thick, slthick, thick, and sometimes v-thick, avoid v-thin, ethin, thin and ethick.
Culet*: none vsmall small
Polish: VG or Ex
Symmetry: VG or Ex
Grading reports: GIA AGS only, the best asschers are sent too GIA these days 99.999% of the time.

*Culet - I have read that since the culet is perpendicular to the table, a large culet will look like an inclusion. I've also read that it's preferable to have a culet that's not pointed since it reduces the chance that the diamond will chip. Is this true?
yes and no, modern settings do a great job of protecting the culet so its no longer an issue once the stone is set.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/17/2008 12:01:49 PM
P: 2/17/2008 3:18:02 PM
DiaGem
DiaGem

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 3,924
Last Post: 11/8/2009
Member Since: 10/21/2004
 
Date: 2/17/2008 12:01:49 PM
Author: strmrdr
Changes in Green

Carat: ~1.1+ (5.80x5.80mm or larger is my target size) smart shopping MM rather than weight :}
Cut: highest quality I can find
Color: D - H (as long as better color than sidestones)
Clarity: stick too vs2 or better unless its an in stock stone that the vendor will guarantee is 100% eyeclean, calling in si asschers is a losing proposition
Fluorescence: Doesn't matter much, if it has some kewl if not kewl, I love v-strong as long as it isnt an over-blue.
LxW ratio: As square as possible, 1.04ish max,
Depth: 45%(haha) too 70%, discount over 70% unless its an old style asscher with a very high crown then it can carry a premium.
Table: 25% to 65%
Crown: 10% With a 65% table--- 27%+ with a 25% table...
Girdle: medium, medium-thick, slthick, thick, and sometimes v-thick, avoid v-thin, ethin, thin and ethick.
Culet*: none vsmall small
Polish: VG or Ex
Symmetry: VG or Ex
Grading reports: GIA AGS only, the best asschers are sent too GIA these days 99.999% of the time.

*Culet - I have read that since the culet is perpendicular to the table, a large culet will look like an inclusion. I've also read that it's preferable to have a culet that's not pointed since it reduces the chance that the diamond will chip. Is this true?
yes and no, modern settings do a great job of protecting the culet so its no longer an issue once the stone is set.

**********************
>Y<

Yoram F.

Antique Diamond Gem
http://www.diagem.net/

"When it doesn't exist, design it..." Sir Henry Royce

Posted:  2/17/2008 3:18:02 PM
P: 2/17/2008 3:28:51 PM
strmrdr
strmrdr

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 23,296
Last Post: 10/9/2009
Member Since: 11/1/2003
 
lol DiaGem cant disagree with that :}

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/17/2008 3:28:51 PM
P: 2/17/2008 7:52:23 PM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
Date: 2/17/2008 12:01:49 PM
Author: strmrdr
Changes in Green


Carat: ~1.1+ (5.80x5.80mm or larger is my target size) smart shopping MM rather than weight :}

Cut: highest quality I can find

Color: D - H (as long as better color than sidestones)

Clarity: stick too vs2 or better unless its an in stock stone that the vendor will guarantee is 100% eyeclean, calling in si asschers is a losing proposition

Fluorescence: Doesn't matter much, if it has some kewl if not kewl, I love v-strong as long as it isnt an over-blue.

LxW ratio: As square as possible, 1.04ish max,

Depth: 45%(haha) too 70%, discount over 70% unless its an old style asscher with a very high crown then it can carry a premium.

Table: 25% to 65%

Crown: 10%+

Girdle: medium, medium-thick, slthick, thick, and sometimes v-thick, avoid v-thin, ethin, thin and ethick.

Culet*: none vsmall small

Polish: VG or Ex

Symmetry: VG or Ex

Grading reports: GIA AGS only, the best asschers are sent too GIA these days 99.999% of the time.


*Culet - I have read that since the culet is perpendicular to the table, a large culet will look like an inclusion. I've also read that it's preferable to have a culet that's not pointed since it reduces the chance that the diamond will chip. Is this true?

yes and no, modern settings do a great job of protecting the culet so its no longer an issue once the stone is set.



Great, thanks for the information! It looks like there are very few "red flags" that can be thrown up by examining only one parameter. For example, the a certain depth can be OK, but only if coupled with a certain crown height and table size.

I guess in the end it really comes down to expert opinion...thankfully there are plenty on here :)

I'm sure you'll be hearing more from me once I can really start looking seriously, but for now I'll concentrate on the setting I guess.

Posted:  2/17/2008 7:52:23 PM
P: 2/17/2008 7:58:48 PM
CaptainCarat
CaptainCarat

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 45
Last Post: 7/26/2008
Member Since: 2/16/2008
 
I think I should clarify what I just said...I had understood before that you had to get a diamond that had good parameters for it to look great, and that each of the parameters had to be in the right general area to get a real performer. However I was thinking that there was a wide swath of numbers that could be excluded immediately but it seems that crown size < 10% and table size > 70% are some of the few!

Posted:  2/17/2008 7:58:48 PM

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